CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

[BobL]

I use 10% H2O2 for metal bluing - its mixed with salt and applied to steel, rusting it before your eyes, then boiled in distilled water - this process is repeated as many times as you can stand.
Here's a before and after 6 passes of the above.
470239 470240
I don't reckon it's as good as Cold Acid fume bluing but the H2O2 method is much faster.

Anyway the H2O2 is food grade from beau - it was about $30 for 1L when I bought it last year.

[BobL]

I think you will find pure Ethanol hard to get. Pharmacies are not allowed to resell it as they get it duty free for use in prescriptions and are only allowed a certain quantity in a certain time.

Isopropyl alcohol is readily available but everyone on on ebay has jacked up their prices to STUPID levels.

At bunnings it's about $27 for half a litre!

I see Shame Warne is moving some of his his Gin distillery over to making hand sanitiser.
Maybe we finally find out about the key to his bowling?

[woodPixel]

Industrial quantities and specialist chemicals can be purchased from Solvent Chem Suppliers - Buy Solvents Online | Sydney Solvents (https://sydneysolvents.com.au)

Unsurprisingly they are sold out, but I do know they are getting epic amounts of Ethanol in.

I buy (bought!) all my stuff from there.

Glycerol from the chemist, woolworths or any cake decorating place. Also try the car paint stores. Glycerol is used by airbrush people to add shine and smoothness to paints.... same with cakes :)

Hydrogen peroxide from Woolworths is sold in cleaning and the hair dye aisles.

Interestingly, the other mega-thread on the environment I've mentioned ethanol recently. I just happened to buy a bag of wheat flour from Manildra Group (https://www.manildra.com.au/) and they make it from waste products :)

Guess there will be more investment in Ethanol production soon :)

Go environment!


Edit - this is what I normally buy. Its 99% Eth, it is normally $35 - BioEthanol 5 Litre | Sydney Solvents (https://www.sydneysolvents.com.au/bio-ethanol-5-litre)

[Lappa]

Tried to buy some Hand sanitiser today - like rocking horse *&$#
I have half a litre of iso propyl alcohol left over after the last operation :2tsup: Came across a similar recipe that uses Aloe Vera gel in the place of glycerol.
Thanks for the recipe

[FenceFurniture]

I think you will find pure Ethanol hard to get. Pharmacies are not allowed to resell it as they get it duty free for use in prescriptions and are only allowed a certain quantity in a certain time.Only 96% required Tom because we are aiming for 80% ethanol in the final solution (96% of 833mls is 800mls). I think Industrial Meths is nearly 100% though isn't it? Ubeaut would know!

[FenceFurniture]

I see Shame Warne is moving some of his his Gin distillery over to making hand sanitiser.
Maybe we finally find out about the key to his bowling?I don't think he usually bowled when he was p!ssed.

[FenceFurniture]

Hydrogen peroxide from Woolworths is sold in cleaning and the hair dye aisles.Well bugger me - I'd never have thought...

EDIT: Well at $4 for 200ml of 3% you are actually a little better off getting the $13/400ml/6% from the pharmacy, but only if you will use it all of course.

[Chesand]

Only 96% required Tom because we are aiming for 80% ethanol in the final solution (96% or 833mls is 800mls). I think Industrial Meths is nearly 100% though isn't it? Ubeaut would know!

Your calculations are correct although 70% was always considered to be best strength as a disinfectant/cleanser.
The alcohol - Ethanol - supplied to pharmacies is either 90% (SVR -short for Spirit Vini Rect = rectified spirits of wine) or 95%. Methylated Spirits should contain Methanol. The odour that it has was added originally to stop the plonkos from drinking it and poisoning themselves as Metho was cheaper than grog.
Isopropyl Alcohol is used as a rubbing alcohol so should be OK in a hand sanitiser

[FenceFurniture]

Came across a similar recipe that uses Aloe Vera gel in the place of glycerol.It's the gel that brings in the only use it three times a day rule apparently. They reckon that stuff gets trapped between the layers of the gel.....but if the gel don't kill that "stuff" then what's the 'king point of it anyway.

It's a bit like WHO saying you must have sterile bottles to put the sanitiser in.
EH?
If the sanitiser isn't going to kill what slight lergies MIGHT be in the bottle after washing, then I wouldn't be too confident about it killing what it is supposed to on my hands.....

[BobL]

Because most people will have access to a 1g balance rather than 1mL measuring volumetric cylinders, here is the recipe for 1 litre of hand sanitiser using 99 or 100% IPA by weight

<tbody>

To make 1 litre


920
g IPA 99 or 100%


63

mls H2O2 3%


17
mls Glycerol 98%






1000
TOTAL

</tbody>


It won't matter if you are +/- a few mLs out with the last 2 ingredients, or +/- 20 with the IPA.

[BobL]

Because most people will have access to a 1g balance as opposed to a 1mL volumetric measuring cylinder here is a recipe for 1 kg of sanitiser using 99 or 100% IPA

<tbody>

To make 1 kg


731
g IPA 99 or 100%


50
g H2O2 3%


14
g Glycerol 98%


205
g water


1000
TOTAL

</tbody>


It won't matter if you are +/- a couple of g with the last two ingredients or water or +/- 20 g with the IPA

[EDIT]
WHOOPS forgot the water - I doubt it would make much difference to its efficacy- its actually used to help the glycerol mix during the manufacture.
Also mixed my Volume and Masses up ; remember you will need more than a 1L bottle to make this 1kg amount (the total volume will be about 1.2L)
I strongly recommend you read the WHO process about how to make it as it is important and follow the instructs from there in case we got it wrong.
https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf

[FenceFurniture]

Yeah, good idea Bob. I have all my syringes (1ml to 5ml) left over from my vaping days a couple of years or so ago, and went to my default position. Mixing this up tonight took me straight back to the old days....

[woodPixel]

If you are after IMS, The Paint Place sells it on the shelf in 1L and 5L bottles. Can order in 20's.


FF - yes, woolworths is an odd one, but I used to use Hydrogen Peroxide for something in fair quantities and ww was the best price per L at the time..... you know, I cannot recall for the life of me what I used it for, but I had absolutely HEAPS of it!

[BobL]

It's the gel that brings in the only use it three times a day rule apparently. They reckon that stuff gets trapped between the layers of the gel.....but if the gel don't kill that "stuff" then what's the 'king point of it anyway.

It's a bit like WHO saying you must have sterile bottles to put the sanitiser in.
EH?
If the sanitiser isn't going to kill what slight lergies MIGHT be in the bottle after washing, then I wouldn't be too confident about it killing what it is supposed to on my hands.....

Even though the sanitiser may kill bugs, there's lots of "bits of bugs", spores, moulds and chemicals etc that are not good for you so it really is a good idea to sterilise/wash out the bottle.

[GraemeCook]

Because most people will have access to a 1g balance as opposed to a 1mL volumetric measuring cylinder here is a recipe for 1 litre of sanitiser using 99 or 100% IPA

<tbody>

To make 1 litre


921
g IPA 99 or 100%


62
g H2O2 3%



17
g Glycerol 98%






1000
TOTAL


</tbody>

.....

It might now be far too late, Bob. As I reported in post #98 above after a visit to local pharmacy on Saturday, 7 March:

"It's weird," said the pharamacist, "We haven't sold much toilet paper, but we have had a run on paracetamol and isopropyl alcohol. And so has our isopropyl alcohol supplier."

[FenceFurniture]

As has been mentioned in various places, this virus and disease have names that have been confused, confounded, and cofarked up. I think we should call it what it really is.

Covfefe 19. (thank you Lola)

[BobL]

It might now be far too late, Bob. As I reported in post #98 above after a visit to local pharmacy on Saturday, 7 March:

"It's weird," said the pharamacist, "We haven't sold much toilet paper, but we have had a run on paracetamol and isopropyl alcohol. And so has our isopropyl alcohol supplier."

Yeo I've been trying to get some myself. But just like there will be an oversupply of toilet paper soon the same will be the case for hand sanitizer and IPA.

[Glider]

As has been mentioned in various places, this virus and disease have names that have been confused, confounded, and cofarked up. I think we should call it what it really is.

Covfefe 19. (thank you Lola)

I know what I'd like to call it but I'd probably be booted off the forum.

mick

-

[Glider]

In an earlier life I was an industrial chemist specialising in formulation with a major pharmaceutical company and in the aerosol and cosmetics industry.

You don't need IPA to make hand sanitiser. Methylated spirits will do exactly the same thing. They don't use methanol to denature the product these days, they use either Bitrex or brucine alkaloid to make it too bitter to drink rather than methanol which is toxic. I think they probably use IPA commercially for hand sanitisers instead of ethanol to eliminate the problem of controls related to excise and controlled usage.

If you're looking for hand wash, body wash is identical.

mick :)

[BobL]

In an earlier life I was an industrial chemist specialising in formulation with a major pharmaceutical company and in the aerosol and cosmetics industry. You don't need IPA to make hand sanitiser. Methylated spirits will do exactly the same thing.

I think the issue with meths is getting it in a pure enough grade to be safely used by everyone. The industrial grade Diggers stuff from bunnings is probably OK for rhino tradie hands but I would be somewhat concerned about using it on kids or seniors, especially with a skin condition or allergies.

Just in case you decide to try it here is the "skin contact" advisory on a Meths MSDS.

Skin Contact: If skin or hair contact occurs, remove contaminated clothing and flush skin and hair with running water. If swelling, redness, blistering or irritation occurs seek medical assistance. For gross contamination, immediately drench with water and remove clothing. Continue to flush skin and hair with plenty of water (and soap if material is insoluble). For skin burns, cover with a clean, dry dressing until medical help is available. If blistering occurs, do NOT break blisters. If swelling, redness, blistering, or irritation occurs seek medical assistance.

Mind you a similar warning applies to straight ehtanol


Wash affected areas with copious quantities of water immediately. Remove contaminated clothing and wash before re-use. If swelling, redness, blistering or irritation occurs seek medical advice.

and IPA

Skin Contact: If skin or hair contact occurs, remove contaminated clothing and flush skin and hair with running water. If swelling, redness, blistering or irritation occurs seek medical assistance. For gross contamination, immediately drench with water and remove clothing. Continue to flush skin and hair with plenty of water (and soap if material is insoluble).

I think they are covering covering their backsides but you then can't say you weren't warned.

[Glider]

I think the issue with meths is getting it in a pure enough grade to be safely used by everyone. The industrial grade Diggers stuff from bunnings is probably OK for rhino tradie hands but I would be somewhat concerned about using it on kids or seniors, especially with a skin condition or allergies.

I think they are covering covering their backsides but you then can't say you weren't warned.

Bob,

Nothing is 100% safe. Anybody, including tradies, can have a reaction to an allergen or irritant. Any solvent or emulsifying agent can and will remove lipids from the skin and may cause an adverse dermatological reaction. Dosage rate, or in this case frequency of use, and the resistance of the patient themselves is generally the key. MDMSs must cover all contingencies or the issuer risks legal action. The addendum on the IPA MSDS is to use soap if the material is insoluble is telling. So yes, they are indeed covering their backsides. Like the melanoma warning from the Cancer Council about exposure to the sun, they have no clear clinical evidence on the minimums, so they can't provide a distinct time. Better to protect oneself than risk it.

In my experience, processes of high volume products like methylated spirits are not interrupted to produce low cost products simply because in most chemical production the final purification phase has no great effect on the end cost. 100% EtOH is post treated after distillation due to the azeotropic minimum in distillation. 96% ethanol is essentially sterile. The absolute classic is "raw sugar". It's white sugar with caramel added later.

Personally I use hand wash and sing happy birthday.

mick

[BobL]

I use hand wash and sing happy birthday.

mick

Thanks Mick. I too use soap and water when I can get it but when on the rare occasions I'm out and about I'm carrying a small bottle of hand sanitizer with me.

I'm supposed to be self isolating but this week has seen me need to go for two x-rays and a GP visit. Was really please to see hand sanitiser readily available at all these places and cleaners constantly cleaning surfaces and patients practicing social distANCING.

SWMBO still can't drive because of her Vertigo (she's been suffering for 6 weeks now) so we've been using online GROCERY shopping but this has not been available this week so I'm driving her to the shops and staying in the car while she dons mask and gloves and does the shopping. She is also way better than me at cleaning and sanitising etc.

I'm going to give the meths a try in the hand sanitizer recipe.

[FenceFurniture]

Mick/Bob, I agree about the harshness of ethanol on skin, particularly coming into drier weather, splits in finger tips etc. So how do you think would it go if the glycerol % was upped at the expense of some of the cold water, but keeping the alcohol content to around 80%?

[FenceFurniture]

Meet Melania's husband, Melatonia.
(have a look at this on a large screen if you can, but best have a bucket handy)
470253

[BobL]

Mick/Bob, I agree about the harshness of ethanol on skin, particularly coming into drier weather, splits in finger tips etc. So how do you think would it go if the glycerol % was upped at the expense of some of the cold water, but keeping the alcohol content to around 80%?

I doubt that would make much difference. In fact it might make it worse because it would hold the stuff on hands for longer. The easiest way would be to just use a bit less ie don't completely smother hands so they are sopping wet with the stuff.

[Tccp123]

A mate just told me a wonderful story.

His sister's daughter (who is pregnant) went to an Aldi yesterday to get some stuff. It wasn’t overly busy and when she entered the toilet paper aisle a shop employee who was handing it out, had the last pack in his hand. She got it and had it in her hand when a lady entered the aisle, and finding there was none left, started complaining. The daughter offered to pay for the pack and give the lady half. That wasn’t good enough apparently because the lady snatched the pack from her and headed off.
When the daughter got to the checkout the “lady” was just leaving but the pack of toilet paper was on the counter. She asked the checkout operator what happened and was told that the lady didn’t have enough money to pay for it.

There’s karma right there.

[Bushmiller]

I think the issue with meths is getting it in a pure enough grade to be safely used by everyone. The industrial grade Diggers stuff from bunnings is probably OK for rhino tradie hands but I would be somewhat concerned about using it on kids or seniors, especially with a skin condition or allergies.



Bob

The Diggers product is 95% metho. If we take a peak at the Ubeaut website under the requirements for mixing up shellac you will see that the recommendation is to use IMS (Industrial Methylated Spirits) of 100% purity. It is quite difficult to source. I can't recall now where I last purchased some, but I remember I had to tout around all over the place. I think WoodPixel made reference to The Paint Place, but I don't know that store.

Regards
Paul

[Glider]

Mick/Bob, I agree about the harshness of ethanol on skin, particularly coming into drier weather, splits in finger tips etc. So how do you think would it go if the glycerol % was upped at the expense of some of the cold water, but keeping the alcohol content to around 80%?

I agree with Bob, mixing it with glycerine will only inhibit evaporation. Glycerine is a humectant i.e. it retains water. It will stop your skin from drying out but not necessarily prevent irritation. I think hand sanitiser should only be used when other methods are unavailable. Stay away from handrails, door handles. The last time I drove back from the farm, AT told me not to touch my face. That's immediately resulted in an itchy nose which I tried to remedy with my shirtsleeve for the next two hours of my drive.

I tried to buy a couple of pairs of cotton gloves to wear in public but they're currently in short supply. Wear one pair while the others are in the wash.

Stay safe, Brett.

mick

[Lappa]

Coles branded metho is 95%. I’ve used it for my shellac mix with no problems. However, I always buy a new bottle for the shellac mix and save the residual for cleaning up.

[FenceFurniture]

AT told me not to touch my face. That's immediately resulted in an itchy nose which I tried to remedy with my shirtsleeve for the next two hours of my drive.:U Which is why I've got 100mls of sanitiser in the car now. It means I can sanitise my shirtsleeve first.

EDIT: Oopsie!

[Glider]

If metho is 95% that means it's been distilled. If you start distilling a mixture of ethanol and water, the ethanol will come off first until the mixture is 95-96% pure. After that, it forms an azeotrope which means that both liquids will come off together and it's reached its maximum concentration using this method.

mick

[BobL]

It won't matter for the hand sanitizer if the meths is only 95% - just use a little less water in the final mix.

Cotton gloves are OK for short term once off contact but if you are dealing with mucky, wet or multiple contacts over a period of time then disposables are better as you will invariably touch your face in that time. Next Wed I will be helping SWMBO move her horse to and from the vet over a period of a couple of hours. I won't be touching the horse but I will need to drive someone elses 4wd, help with the horse float, etc. If I used the same pair of gloves for the whole period that's not going to be as safe as using disposables and regularly changing gloves especially after each potential major contact. I already have boxes of disposable latex gloves in my shed that I used when doing some aspects of metal work.

I worked for 35 years in ultra clean laboratories where we trained students in clean lab techniques. We used acid washed plastic gloves over cotton or Viton rubber gloves and continually replaced the outer plastic pair. During a 2-3 hour stint in the lab we would typically use half a dozen pairs of plastic gloves, The aim was to prevent stuff getting out from the hands into the lab and also from transferring stuff from place to place in the lab, but the same principles applies to prevent stuff getting in.

[BobL]

:U Which is why I've got 100mm of sanitiser in the car now. It means I can sanitise my shirtsleeve first.

100mm - must be pretty sticky/slippery having a 100 mm layer of santizer all over the inside of the car :D

[FenceFurniture]

It won't matter for the hand sanitizer if the meths is only 95%The WHO Brew for Meths (#1) is based on 96% meths. At 833ml per litre that comes to 79.97% alcohol. Brew #2 for IPA 99.8% calls for 751 ml per litre which results in 74.95% alcohol, so presumably they think that IPA has a just a little bit extra kick over ethanol.

I think it's pretty clear that WHO have nominated 96% ethanol because that is what is commonly available, and 100% is probably generally unobtainium in places like Africa.

[FenceFurniture]

100mm - must be pretty sticky/slippery having a 100 mm layer of santizer all over the inside of the car :D:U Yeah it's tricky to drive, but it's REALLY clean.

[BobL]

The WHO Brew for Meths (#1) is based on 96% meths. At 833ml per litre that comes to 79.97% alcohol. Brew #2 for IPA 99.8% calls for 751 ml per litre which results in 74.95% alcohol, so presumably they think that IPA has a just a little bit extra kick over ethanol.

I din't think it matters as long as the final brew is >60-70% alcohol.

[BobL]

Anyone for DIY masks?

What Are The Best Materials for Making DIY Masks? - Smart Air Filters (https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/)

There's a bit of stuff going around suggesting mask should only be worn by persons who are ill.
This suggests otherwise. N95 Masks vs. Surgical Masks: Which Is Better at Preventing The Coronavirus? - Smart Air Filters (https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/n95-mask-surgical-prevent-transmission-coronavirus/?rel=1)

[Lappa]

Interesting that the advice comes from someone manufacturing masks :D:? Advice from WHO.

When and how to use masks (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks)

[BobL]

Interesting that the advice comes from someone manufacturing masks :D:?

I agree it is unusual, you'd think all they would want to do flog masks.
The author's details are interesting

Paddy is the CEO of Smart Air, running operations from Beijing. He’s has a Masters in aeronautical engineering from Bristol University, UK having specialised in aerodynamics. An advocate for open data, free information and transparent business, he spends his spare time promoting honest business and social enterprise.
This guy also has the ability and facilities to test virus penetration of masks, not many people or places would be able to do that.


Advice from WHO.
When and how to use masks (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks)

The one that concerns us here is , wear a mask only




If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.



I suspect this is stated mainly to stop runs on masks by people that least need them. Interesting that both Taiwan and Singapore with populations which despite lengthy exposures have the lowest per capita cases of COVID19 and both adopted masks early in spite of the WHO advice. One reason they could do this is they both had massive stockpiles of masks available but the most likely impact on mask effectiveness is they reduce the number and length of face touching. The other thing is they serve as a visible reminder that something serious is going on. Imagine how many folks would continue to turn up at Bondi if everyone already on the sand was wearing a mask.

If I was teaching in a school I would consider wearing a mask even if it was to constantly communicate to students about the seriousness of the situation.

[woodPixel]

I'd be keen on that DIY mask design when its finalised.

[BobL]

I'd be keen on that DIY mask design when its finalised.

There's plenty of designs out there here's one by a doctor
Sewing a Surgical Mask — Dr. Lauren Streicher (https://www.drstreicher.com/dr-streicher-blog/2020/3/a-surgeon-sewing-a-surgical-mask)

Just a reminder that my take on these home made masks is " . . . the most likely impact on mask effectiveness is they reduce the number and length of face touching and serve visible reminder to others that something serious is going on."

[doug3030]

Interesting that both Taiwan and Singapore with populations which despite lengthy exposures have the lowest per capita cases of COVID19 and both adopted masks early in spite of the WHO advice. One reason they could do this is they both had massive stockpiles of masks available but the most likely impact on mask effectiveness is they reduce the number and length of face touching. The other thing is they serve as a visible reminder that something serious is going on. Imagine how many folks would continue to turn up at Bondi if everyone already on the sand was wearing a mask.

I had to stop as pedestrian lights in Essendon while I was driving on Friday. A woman crossed the road in front of me wearing a mask tied over her face. When she was walking directly in front of my car I noticed that I could see right through the mask from one side to the other. It was touching above her nose and under her chin but the sides were right away from her face. Not sure what it was achieving.

[BobL]

I had to stop as pedestrian lights in Essendon while I was driving on Friday. A woman crossed the road in front of me wearing a mask tied over her face. When she was walking directly in front of my car I noticed that I could see right through the mask from one side to the other. It was touching above her nose and under her chin but the sides were right away from her face. Not sure what it was achieving.

Would it have reduced the chances of her touching her face especially in the region of her nose and cake hole?
The fact that you noticed it is of itself worth 1/4% in the overall scheme of things but every 1/4% helps

Most of my postings regarding masks in the dust forums would indicated I don't think much of their efficacy at preventing airborne bits from getting inside you and I also maintain this position with regards COVID19. However, with wood dust it matters little whether we touch our faces or not. Also wood workers don't need to signal/remind everyone else around them "hey right now we're in a dangerous environment".

Most of the problems with antibacterial masks are over use which let's then get soggy, saggy baggy and dirty. The way around this is to replace them but we can't afford to do this right now. Hence it may well eventually come down to rolling our own.

Just like wood work I think clean antibacterial masks for someone without symptoms are a last resort after doing everything else. When I have to go the GP next week am I going to wear a mask - you bet. But I will also wash my hands before and after, change and my clothes when I get home, carry and use hand santizer, sit well apart from other patients in the waiting room, and by wearing a mask this could incentivise other patients to keep away. Do I wear one at home - nope.

Just like woodworking the issue with antibacterial masks is too many users treating them as silver bullets.

[FenceFurniture]

and by wearing a mask this could incentivise other patients to keep away.The odd slight cough or two and clearing of the throat will keep them away, particularly if you are wearing a mask.... :;
Mind you, there may be an explanation required to the staff.



I have a 3M silicon P2 mask (https://www.3m.com.au/3M/en_AU/company-au/all-3m-products/~/3M-Maintenance-Free-Half-Face-Respirator-4277-A1B1E1P2-/?N=5002385+3294471702&preselect=8720539+8720550+3293786499&rt=rud) (and a couple of new ones in packets) that I use for dusty jobs like sanding, changing dust bags, fireplace cleaning etc, but I also have a box of 10 disposable P2 masks with exhaust valves that I bought a few years back. The silicon masks will keep out cat farts and ammonia smells because they are an excellent fit. I'm wondering if I can disinfect the disposable masks by spraying some metho on them? It shouldn't leave any residual should it? Same question for the silicon masks.

[BobL]

The odd slight cough or two and clearing of the throat will keep them away, particularly if you are wearing a mask.... :;
Mind you, there may be an explanation required to the staff.



I have a 3M silicon P2 mask (https://www.3m.com.au/3M/en_AU/company-au/all-3m-products/~/3M-Maintenance-Free-Half-Face-Respirator-4277-A1B1E1P2-/?N=5002385+3294471702&preselect=8720539+8720550+3293786499&rt=rud) (and a couple of new ones in packets) that I use for dusty jobs like sanding, changing dust bags, fireplace cleaning etc, but I also have a box of 10 disposable P2 masks with exhaust valves that I bought a few years back. The silicon masks will keep out cat farts and ammonia smells because they are an excellent fit. I'm wondering if I can disinfect the disposable masks by spraying some metho on them? It shouldn't leave any residual should it? Same question for the silicon masks.

Yep metho spray and then hang the masks outside in full sunlight for some added UV treatment.

And do please share how you get the cat to fart on demand?

[FenceFurniture]

And do please share how you get the cat to fart on demand?Errr, well, actually, on the day it wasn't the cat...it was me after a particularly nasty curry :B. But I have cleaned up an even nastier cat's mess with no blow through.

[Glider]

Errr, well, actually, on the day it wasn't the cat...it was me after a particularly nasty curry :B. But I have cleaned up an even nastier cat's mess with no blow through.

I hope it wasn't a Boycott curry. You know, the one where the runs come slowly but inexorably.

mick :)

- - - Updated - -

[Bushmiller]

I have some reservations about the efficacy of face masks. Bob has already alluded to, actually stated, some problems. That related to the fit of the mask and the mask's longevity, which is not very long at all. One particular aspect that has not been touched upon, unless I have missed it in which case I apologise, is that the mask should not be touched with your hands. This is the WHO's recommendations on face mask usage and application.

When and how to use masks (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks)

I would be surprised if more than one in ten people comply with all those recommendations. I am guessing, completely, that some would be worn until you can ring them out. :oo:

Realistically I think you would only be able to use the same mask for one day. That in itself would be a huge demand for masks. I would be surprised if there were the resources to cope.

One final comment on the hygiene aspect is that detergent and/or soap and water seems to be as effective as killing the skin borne germs so are we over-thinking with the santiser option? Perhaps we are talking convenience with sanitisers, but realistically, for many of us, how much are we going out and about in the current climate?

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

This is a link that summarises the nature of the illness based on what has already happened, mainly in Wuhan. Interestingly it reflects much of what has been discussed on this thread. Has The Conversation been reading our Forum? :)

Coronavirus: how long does it take to get sick? How infectious is it? Will you always have a fever? COVID-19 basics explained (https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-how-long-does-it-take-to-get-sick-how-infectious-is-it-will-you-always-have-a-fever-covid-19-basics-explained-132963?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=COVID-19%20special%20newsletter&utm_content=COVID-19%20special%20newsletter+CID_eaa81ee30d92a758ca93939fb5d9f3a5&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Coronavirus%20how%20long%20does%20it%20take%20to%20get%20sick%20How%20infectious%20is%20it%20COVID-19%20basics%20explained)

Regards
Paul

[wheelinround]

Corona Virus world population largest DNA data base created combined with big brother facial recognition we have instant world wide information on its populace!

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[BobL]

I have some reservations about the efficacy of face masks. Bob has already alluded to, actually stated, some problems. That related to the fit of the mask and the mask's longevity, which is not very long at all. One particular aspect that has not been touched upon, unless I have missed it in which case I apologise, is that the mask should not be touched with your hands. This is the WHO's recommendations on face mask usage and application.

When and how to use masks (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks)

I would be surprised if more than one in ten people comply with all those recommendations. I am guessing, completely, that some would be worn until you can ring them out. :oo:

Realistically I think you would only be able to use the same mask for one day. That in itself would be a huge demand for masks. I would be surprised if there were the resources to cope.l

The HUGE demand by all sectors of the population is why the DIY masks has kicked off. The DIY movement also reduces the drain on use of real masks by plebs so they can be used by the medical community.

In the US the incompetency of authorities has lead to serious lack of everything even for medical people. This is what has spawned a DIY movement to make them masks, shields, gowns etc. These are meant to be single use only.
For the general population that are not infected the efficacy of any mask is more in its appearance and reducing hands touching nose and mouth so these can be cleaned and reused.
There is lots more than DIY masks going on
My son is working with a local paediatrician on a DIY face shield for doctors using a 3D printed head band and a replaceable clear plastic shield.

An easy way to re-use tight weave cotton fabric masks is to soak then in dilute bleach for a few hours and then hang them in the sun for a day or two. Then with a dozen or so masks they could be replaced every half day or so, or when you need to go out and use them.


One final comment on the hygiene aspect is that detergent and/or soap and water seems to be as effective as killing the skin borne germs so are we over-thinking with the santiser option? Perhaps we are talking convenience with sanitisers, but realistically, for many of us, how much are we going out and about in the current climate?l

Well unless you have a serious stash of food or grow your own sooner or later one has to go to the supermarket or pharmacist and maybe the petrol station. when hand sanitiser comes in really useful.

The message still needs to get out that masks are just a poofteenth of a % effective and wearers can't disregard social distancing, hand washing with soa\p or other requirements - just like wood working masks are not a silver bullet.

[BobL]

And when you get really desperate.


https://youtu.be/S59pEgbyXlU

[Bohdan]

And when corona is over you can double as underware.

[Tccp123]

Departing Brisbane airport this morning...

470298

[Tonyz]

I think you missed the plane,

[Tccp123]

I think you missed the plane,

I think you missed the significance of the picture...

[Tccp123]

I think you missed the plane,

I'll give you a clue. Look at the brand...

[Tccp123]

I think you missed the plane,

Starts with "C", five letters...

[Handyjack]

One positive that has come is the reduction in the number of aircraft been flown which should reduce the amount of greenhouse gases produced.

CoVid 19 could be more effective than Greta T.

[BobL]

One positive that has come is the reduction in the number of aircraft been flown which should reduce the amount of greenhouse gases produced.

Not "should" it definitely has, and it has not just been planes but from fewer vehicle movements and reduced industrial pollution - earlier on in this thread I speculated on the reduction in deaths from the reduction in PM2.5. NASA has published some satellite images showing the drop in air pollution over China and Europe, especially Italy.
Airborne Nitrogen Dioxide Plummets Over China (https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/146362/airborne-nitrogen-dioxide-plummets-over-china)

BTW some research has shown that somewhere between 20 and 70% of persons with no classical symptoms that test positive for COVID19 experience a concurrent loss of sense of smell. Currently this is not a criteria for testing but looks like it soon will be, so if you suddenly lose your sense of smell but still fell OK then maybe see a doc
see https://www.entuk.org/loss-sense-smell-marker-covid-19-infection

[FenceFurniture]

Departing Brisbane airport this morning...

470298Not quite sure what you are trying to say here. So a China Air plane departed from Brisbane this morning.....and.....

[doug3030]

Air plane

aeroplane *

[ian]

aeroplane
Jelly anyone ??







:wink:

[BobL]

Three days ago Australia had round 300 cases of COVID19, and it's well know the doubling rate appears to be ~3 days
OK its been 3 days and here we are today with 636 cases.
The numbers we see today are because of (a lack of) decisions made around 2 weeks ago.
Projecting that forward, unless something drastic is done today, in 2 weeks time we will have ~20,000 people with this virus.
I guess this is what we get when we let Pollies be in charge of a Public Medical Crisis.

OK here we are 3 days further on again, and we are "bang on target" with 1200 and something cases.
What this means is the changes made 2 weeks ago made SFA difference

Again, changes made TODAY (not next Tuesday) will take about 2 weeks to see any effects , so by then we will be at ~38000 cases.
Only when the doubling rate starts to increase will we know if we have any sort of a handle on this this.

We've been lucky with deaths but that's likely to change dramatically especially if we get into "medical over run" territory.

It reminds me of a couple of dudes driving down a high way at 100 kph with an open pizza between the front seats. Not far down the road there's an explosion and a fire ball erupts. The choice is stomp on the brakes, let the open pizza meet is fate on the floor of the car, and check it out from a distance, or tap lightly on the brake and hope to stop in time before they all entering the fireball.

[EDIT]
Finally it looks like some of the states are doing something bit more drastic.
But ideally it should have been done a couple of weeks ago

[FenceFurniture]

The airline is China Air. The vehicle is an aeroplane, aircraft....or a plane. So the picture is of a China Air plane. :;

Sometimes petty point scoring just backfires eh?

[Lappa]

Unfortunately, the reduction in NO2 over China was short lived and is now on the way back up as they to reduce the sanctions and ramp production back up.

Satellite data show resurgence in NO2 emissions over China - Green Car Congress (https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200320-tropomi.html)

[Lappa]

Just heard through the grapevine, so take it for what it’s worth, that NSW is not only shutting down non essentials but also shutting down ALL schools.
Guess we’ll find out more tomorrow.

BTW BobL, the Govt web site lists 1098 as at 6am this morning. With 224 new cases since 6am yesterday, I guess we’ll hit the 1200 by tomorrow morning.

[doug3030]

Just heard through the grapevine, so take it for what it’s worth, that NSW is not only shutting down non essentials but also shutting down ALL schools.
Guess we’ll find out more tomorrow.

Have heard unsubstantiated rumors that Victoria will be shutting down all non-essential travel too, I guess that would include schools too. We will have to wait for the announcement too.

[BobL]

Just heard through the grapevine, so take it for what it’s worth, that NSW is not only shutting down non essentials but also shutting down ALL schools.
Guess we’ll find out more tomorrow.

AFL suspended till May 31.
WA closing border to non-essential travel but with SA and NT doing it WA has little choice.
Rottnest Island to be looked at as a WA quarantine station for those unable to or not properly quaranteening.
The state premiers are meeting tonight to decided on schools, if no general shutdown the Vic will also shut schools on Tuesday.
I think they might try and coordinate a general nation wide shutdown.

[doug3030]

The airline is China Air. The vehicle is an aeroplane, aircraft....or a plane. So the picture is of a China Air plane. :;

Sometimes petty point scoring just backfires eh?

Hardly Brett, come in spinner again. I was just testing if you would ignore me as you said you would in your private message after your childish behavior in the Katoomba thread. You may have me blocked and picked this up when Ian quoted me but you sure as hell aren't living up to your promise of ignoring me.

[ian]

Just heard through the grapevine, so take it for what it’s worth, that NSW is not only shutting down non essentials but also shutting down ALL schools.
Guess we’ll find out more tomorrow.
bit more formal than the grapevine NSW, Victoria move to comprehensive shutdown of non-essential services amid coronavirus pandemic - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-22/coronavirus-nsw-victoria-shutdown-non-essential-services/12079124)
The NSW and Victorian Governments will proceed to a more comprehensive shutdown of non-essential services over the next 48 hours in attempt to slow the spread of coronavirus.

Supermarkets, petrol stations, pharmacies, convenience stores, freight and logistics, and home delivery will be among the many services that will remain open.
Schools in both states will also be open on Monday, but in Victoria school holidays will be brought forward to start on Tuesday.
Both Victoria and NSW were planning to push for lock downs at tonight's National Cabinet meeting, but NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian and Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews made clear that their states would be pursuing these more drastic measures.

Key points:



The shutdowns in Victoria and NSW will not effect supermarkets, pharmacies and banks
Victoria will bring forward school holidays to begin on Tuesday
The Government will also consider locking down COVID-19 "red zones", as has been done in Wuhan and parts of Europe



Looks like NSW and Victoria are finally getting their "act" together.
BTW, I now expect that NSW schools will be closed from Wednesday at the latest. Three weeks earlier than scheduled.

[Bushmiller]

My impression is that the government's resistance to shutting the schools is primarily based on economics and logistics. By that I mean that with so many families having two working parents, there was supposedly nobody at home to look after them. This might not be so true as the nation is progressively encouraged to work from home where possible or one parent is stood down. It was also a rather weak and futile attempt to keep the economy rolling.

Certainly the reasoning does not really stack up compared to the actions in other comparable countries. Apart from the clearly invidious predicament in which it places teachers, it may be that children are carriers without displaying noticeable symptoms. If this were the case it would cause a very significant escalation of the chance of infection. It would be like releasing a bomb of the virus onto an unsuspecting adult public.

Just as an aside, I was introduced to a neighbour today and immediately shook hands. Such is the force of habit and I did not even realise what I had done until after he had left. :doh:

Regards
Paul

[RossM]

OK here we are 3 days further on again, and we are "bang on target" with 1200 and something cases.
What this means is the changes made 2 weeks ago made SFA difference

Again, changes made TODAY (not next Tuesday) will take about 2 weeks to see any effects , so by then we will be at ~38000 cases.
Only when the doubling rate starts to increase will we know if we have any sort of a handle on this this.

We've been lucky with deaths but that's likely to change dramatically especially if we get into "medical over run" territory.

It reminds me of a couple of dudes driving down a high way at 100 kph with an open pizza between the front seats. Not far down the road there's an explosion and a fire ball erupts. The choice is stomp on the brakes, let the open pizza meet is fate on the floor of the car, and check it out from a distance, or tap lightly on the brake and hope to stop in time before they all entering the fireball.

[EDIT]
Finally it looks like some of the states are doing something bit more drastic.
But ideally it should have been done a couple of weeks ago

Not to downplay any of this (and I agree, a lot should have been done a lot sooner - look at Taiwan for a stellar example of how to get on top of this sort of thing and minimise the spread of the disease).

However, the stats are very scant on detail & are really being misreported, or maybe that's misrepresented.

Rate of detection is NOT likely to be the same as rate of infection. As the testing ramps up the number of reported infections will rise. We just don't know what the level of infection was in the country before testing started. So numbers infected are likely to be higher than the reported cases (as we have not tested everyone) but the rate of spread could well be slower than the reported stats indicate. (Of course it could be higher) I have not seem any figures of the number of tests actually carried out, and what sampling techniques were used. I suspect that the population samples are biased toward those at risk (e.g. travellers who were at high risk of being infected) or those with symptoms. If so this will skew results lead to a perception of higher that actual rates.

Then we have the political vested interests - who actually believes Kim Jon-Un and assertions of the lack of infections in DPRK, or the figures coming out of Iran, or even the recent figures from China?

Statistical biases seem to be running unchecked, and people (particularly media) seem to be too intent on drawing sweeping conclusions from insufficient data.

[FenceFurniture]

who actually believes Kim Jon-Un and assertions of the lack of infections in DPRK, or the figures coming out of Iran, or even the recent figures from China?No, don't believe any of the three, but I would think that China would be right in there helping DPRK given that they have workers going in to China.



Just as an aside, I was introduced to a neighbour today and immediately shook hands. Such is the force of habit and I did not even realise what I had done until after he had left. :doh:Well I certainly hope you didn't do this => :doh:

[woodPixel]

I am facetious. Yeah that means "cracking a joke when TSHTF".... its serious, but you have to have a laugh.

... screen grabs off Reddit today :)


470332

470331

[Lappa]

Ian.
The earlier talk from Gladys (news reports about 2:30pm) was she was considering the closing down of schools in ”hot zones”, not a total close down of schools State wide.
I’ll wait for her to actually say it, or receive an email from my manager, before I believe any news source.
Hence my “ for what it’s worth” statement.

[BobL]

Not to downplay any of this (and I agree, a lot should have been done a lot sooner - look at Taiwan for a stellar example of how to get on top of this sort of thing and minimise the spread of the disease). However, the stats are very scant on detail & are really being misreported, or maybe that's misrepresented.Rate of detection is NOT likely to be the same as rate of infection. As the testing ramps up the number of reported infections will rise. We just don't know what the level of infection was in the country before testing started. So numbers infected are likely to be higher than the reported cases (as we have not tested everyone) but the rate of spread could well be slower than the reported stats indicate. (Of course it could be higher) I have not seem any figures of the number of tests actually carried out, and what sampling techniques were used.
Some testing data here How many tests for COVID-19 are being performed around the world? - Our World in Data (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing)

Australia is third in the world for tests per million people (4400, 0.4%) Korea has 0.6% but they have much better tracking than most other countries I'm not particularly concerned if its 50% or even 2X slower or faster, whatever it is it's too fast for ordinary committee speed decision making.

The only place where the entire population of a sealed off town/community has been continually monitored is the Italian/venetian Town of Vo with about 3000 people. A complete survey a few weeks back found 3% were infected and thus isolated. A second round of testing found 0.4% infected and those where then isolated. The third round found 0.1% infected and isolated. They believe they now have everyone affected in quarantine. It's now called the safest town in Italy.

[woodPixel]

Triped over this just now.

It may be useful - Deaconess - How to make a Face Mask (https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask)

[BobL]

Triped over this just now.

It may be useful - Deaconess - How to make a Face Mask (https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask)

The pattern as is similar to what SWMBO is following.

Here is an example SWMBO whipped up this morning.
470336

She can't sew more than one at a time much as she has really bad vertigo (she's had it for 6 weeks, can't you see the stunned mullet look on her face) and has to have a lie down in between making each mask

My contribution was to cut the thin Al strips for the nose bridge.

These elastic SWMBO has used on these masks don't work on me as my ears are like our younger Border Collies ears ie too floppy!
So she has made me a custom mask with softer elastic that doesn't pull past my ears.

I also have an almost full box of medical masks we bought 6 months ago for cleaning out the MILs plACE.

Things must be pretty grim as the Governor of New York has appealed to the public for any available face masks for use by state medical staff.

[rwbuild]

My prediction is schools will close next week.
On a lighter note and apologies to Slim Dusty,...."The pub has plenty beer but no drinkers"

[BobL]

Certainly the reasoning does not really stack up compared to the actions in other comparable countries. Apart from the clearly invidious predicament in which it places teachers, it may be that children are carriers without displaying noticeable symptoms. If this were the case it would cause a very significant escalation of the chance of infection. It would be like releasing a bomb of the virus onto an unsuspecting adult public.

Talking about bombs waiting to go off try this one.

My DIL is an instrumental music teacher in a primary school - instruments of particular concern are brass/woodwind which like all instruments the kids have to share across classes. ie copious loads of body fluids involved. She is terrified about this and has been told in no uncertain terms that she has to continue carrying out the designated term program until told otherwise. With careful use she's been going through about 2L of cleaner spray and a litre of hand sanitizer a week and is about to run out of sanitizer but there is no more available. My son made a litre today but that won't last long and the school holidays here in WA are 3 weeks away.

As for the other PMs decisions, again, too little, too late, too slow.
Hunker down folks it's going to be a rough ride.

[BobL]

My prediction is schools will close next week.

Interesting possibly even sensible move by GB in NSW
NSW schools stay open but parents urged to keep children at home to contain spread of coronavirus - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-23/coronavirus-parents-told-to-keep-children-home-from-school/12079524)

Meanwhile here's an Italian Mayor offloading - keep watching to see how frustrated he gets.

https://youtu.be/lYTIEcZFsz8

Don't laugh too hard our fellow citizens are no better, witness Bondi on the weekend.
There's an even more emphatic and expletive ladened video appeal by a bunch of Italian mayors on Twitter but it probably wouldn't pass the forum censors so decided not to post it here.

[Tccp123]

Meanwhile here's an Italian Mayor offloading - keep watching to see how frustrated he gets.



Brilliant. Italian is the perfect language for this rant.

[woodPixel]

Here is my daughter going to work (she is a mental health care person (psych and physical)).....

This street is packed by 8am.

Sponging public servants clag the local suburbs all day rather than pay $3 for parking.

Today... nobody.

Day One and they are all off. This is a group that doesn't need to be told twice!

Now MyGov has crashed.

We are off to a gooooooddddd start Australia.....

470358

[BobL]

Brilliant. Italian is the perfect language for this rant.

Yep - maybe not nearly enough hand movements and gestures - he must be a northern Italian :D

[Tonyz]

Well I certainly hope you didn't do this => :doh:

what? wipe his nose?

[BobL]

This might be useful to someone.
470360

[Tccp123]

A friend of a friend works as a teacher in China. He was ordered to leave three or four weeks ago when all this hit the fan. Three days ago he was asked to return. He reports business as usual, all the shops are open and people are just carrying on as per normal. He is back in his old teaching position.

I thought that was worth passing on as it came directly from him, not a "news agency".

[Bernmc]

China is going to be very interesting to watch. They've restricted spread to around 80K case, out of a population of 1.4 billion. That's an awful lot of uninfected, non-immune people. What happens next will inform the rest of the world as to what happens when you start allowing your population to move again. The risk is a 2nd wave of infection.

It'll give us an idea of just how long we will have to deal with the effects of the virus. If China gets another rush as people move about, it'll indicate much longer lock downs across the world, and even more economic disruption. If they can control it though, there's a glimmer of hope (although non-totalitarian governments aren't quite as able to tell people what to do for prolonged periods of time).

[BobL]

I could be lucky!

I found out today that one of the drugs being tested as an antiviral for COVID19 is hydroxychloroquine and I've been on this stuff for nearly 12 months. It's normally sold as "Plaquenil" for use by arthritis sufferers, but I'm taking it for Sarcoidosis and Hypercalcemia.

It has a number of potential side effects including;


headache, dizziness, ringing in your ears;
nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
loss of appetite, weight loss;

mood changes, feeling nervous or irritable;

skin rash or itching; or.

hair loss

sensitivity to sunlight and colourblindness.



To assess these side effects I was started off at a low dose and had to get eye tests and then the dose was built up. Fortunately I don't appear to have any significant effects so am currently taking half the max permissible daily dose and could take more if needed.
BUT
Please don't go out and get your doctor to prescribe it as it's still unproven in treating COVID19 and I need it for my existing conditions. It also really dangerous for anyone like me taking this drug to suddenly stop taking it, so please don't put me through this.

[FenceFurniture]

The Trumpwit has been on about that for the last 3-4 days and Dr Anthony Fauci has been gently pushing back against it. Melatonia says he has "a good feeling about it" based on the wind direction at the time, but Fauci says trials are still some way off for results. Apparently the Chinese doctors have been having what they think may some success.

I must watch too much Trumpwit (which all came out of the more peachy circumstances) :D

[FenceFurniture]

It's normally sold as "Plaquenil" for use by arthritis sufferers.Apparently for Rheumatoid Arthuritis, not Osteo. I take meloxicam for OA which is an anti-inflammatory, and which unfortunately would be useless agin Covfefe 19.

[FenceFurniture]

BUT
Please don't go out and get your doctor to prescribe it as it's still unproven in treating COVID19 and I need it for my existing conditions. It also really dangerous for anyone taking this drug to suddenly stop taking it, so please don't put me through this.Well sheeyit, this just popped up in the news, so no need to worry Bob:
Malaria and arthritis drugs touted as potential coronavirus 'cure', triggering pharmacy rush - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-23/malaria-drugs-labelled-early-coronavirus-covid19-cures-treatment/12081306)

I haven't read it yet but how can doctors prescribe it for people who don't have RA or any of Bob's Comorbid 19s?

Bern?


Btw, this has all come from the Trumpwit's completely ill-educated remarks over the last few days. What a Trumpwit the man is.

[BobL]

The Trumpwit has been on about that for the last 3-4 days and Dr Anthony Fauci has been gently pushing back against it. Melatonia says he has "a good feeling about it" based on the wind direction at the time, but Fauci says trials are still some way off for results. Apparently the Chinese doctors have been having what they think may some success.
Fauci has to push back on anything in this space, if he gives anything a shred of credence it will sell out faster than toilet paper.

[Bernmc]

The hydroxychloroquine info is based on a non-randomised study with 9 people. There's no RCT evidence, and no info on dose or timing. It does hurt the virus in a petri dish. Current use/dose is purely sucking of the thumb.

There are a number of clinical trials of various drugs that have been effective against other viruses rapidly getting underway, but at the moment all the drugs we're using are based on anecdotal evidence.

So leave the stuff for people that we know need it - like Bob. Then, if it proves effective, you'll get it if you need it.

[Glider]

Chloroquine is a very old anti-malarial drug which has been found to be effective for arthritics. I remember working on Chloroquine and Pyramethamine for a UNICEF contract in 1967. It has been found to be effective against COVID 19 but in vitro only. By the time full clinical trials are complete, this pandemic may only be a memory. It may cause arrhythmia if prescribed with incompatible medications. It always worries me that doctors only do a short course in pharmacology leaving pharmacists to raise the alarm.

I hope it works for you, Bob.

mick

[BobL]

It looks like there are 6 trials being set up for Hydroxychloroquine
3 trails are are recruiting; Korea (Mild COVID19), China (pneumonia/COVO19) and USA; and 3 are not even at the recruiting stage

Search of: Hydroxychloroquine | SARS-CoV-2 - List Results - ClinicalTrials.gov (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=SARS-CoV-2&term=Hydroxychloroquine&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=)

[FenceFurniture]

It may cause arrhythmia if prescribed with incompatible medications.And arrhythmia is no fun at all. From age 16 to early 40s I had Wolf Parkinson White Syndrome which is an extra nerve channel down the back of the heart - would short circuit every now and then starting off with Ventricular tachycardia that morphed into Atrial fibrillation for up to 18 hours or so (it might be AF to VT...it's a distant memory now). Completely debilitating when it happens. (I had it radio ablated in three sessions).

Even now I get very regular ectopic heartbeats, although I suspect everyone does but are just not as finely attuned to it as I became (through paranoia :U.

[Glider]

I remember working on Chloroquine and Pyramethamine for a UNICEF contract in 1967.

It's funny how these old drugs pop up in the news. Pyramethamine (Daraprim) was the drug which American fund manager Martin Shrekli controlled and then jacked up the price by >1000% leaving a lot of people unable to afford their medication. He was subsequently jailed after becoming the most hated man in the U.S.

mick

[Glider]

It looks like there are 6 trials being set up for Hydroxychloroquine
3 trails are are recruiting; Korea (Mild COVID19), China (pneumonia/COVO19) and USA; and 3 are not even at the recruiting stage

Search of: Hydroxychloroquine | SARS-CoV-2 - List Results - ClinicalTrials.gov (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=SARS-CoV-2&term=Hydroxychloroquine&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=)

It's great to see a .gov link being quoted. Elder daughter's specialty in education is teaching teachers how to instruct pupils on how to search the internet effectively. For years students have been supplied with laptops having no idea on how to use them properly.

Apart from apprising me about Google Scholar, the best hint she gave me was to add .gov .edu to any serious question I wanted answered on the internet. It filters all the crap, wikis etc, and generally provides valid information.

mick ;)