CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

[FenceFurniture]

There are nine of them carrying assault rifles that I can count, but there are no doubt more that can't be seen.

[woodhutt]

Looks like Trump has a new business venture,
'Rent-A-Redneck'

Pete

[FenceFurniture]

Substitute Ross River or Dengue fever A mate of mine who lives on the coast at Rockhampton has just had a bout of Dengue two weeks ago. He was talking to me with a dry cough and other symptoms that sounded a little like C19 so I urged him to consult a GP. Apparently the big giveaway to it being Dengue was a strong metallic taste in his mouth. One of the more attractive symptoms is....a blue Old Fella.....

He can't wear DEET, and the mozzies are in full cry 24 hours a day.

[doug3030]

What's more, they are almost exclusively overweight middle-aged WHITE males with goatees. Not a woman in sight. I think there might be something in that for all of us.

Make whatever you want from that Brett. Able-bodied white heterosexual males are unique in being the only group that have no lobby group standing up for them. The world seems to support quotas and lobby groups for:

Women
Genders/sexual preferences other than heterosexual (all 97 of them)
Disabled people
minority ethnic groups

Good to see a group that has nobody else lobbying for them standing up for themselves. :2tsup:

[BobL]

Make whatever you want from that Brett. Able-bodied white heterosexual males are unique in being the only group that have no lobby group standing up for them. The world seems to support quotas and lobby groups for:
Women
Genders/sexual preferences other than heterosexual (all 97 of them)
Disabled people
minority ethnic groups
Good to see a group that has nobody else lobbying for them standing up for themselves. :2tsup:

Humm . . . . cant let that one slide by . . . . . . given that able-bodied white heterosexual males (and are a world wide minority) already have 90+% of the power and wealth in the world, why do they need any more representation, perhaps what they need is less?

[doug3030]

Humm . . . . cant let that one slide by . . . . . . given that able-bodied white heterosexual males (and are a world wide minority) already have 90+% of the power and wealth in the world, why do they need any more representation, perhaps what they need is less?

Bob, is that 90+% figure really able-bodied white heterosexual males or just males?

Take out the men who are either gay, disabled or minority race and what is the figure?

[Kuffy]

Can anyone imagine this scene in Australia? Simply because they are sick of the lockdown?

At first glance, I actually thought it was a bunch of blokes standing in front of Vic parliament house, so yeah I can imagine such a scene. And to be honest, I kind of expect it in Melbourne. You are correct though, they are all white. Thanks for noticing??????

[BobL]

Bob, is that 90+% figure really able-bodied white heterosexual males or just males?

Take out the men who are either gay, disabled or minority race and what is the figure?

That fact that disabled people are even included in this argument says it all for me and means I won't be responding any further to this.

[doug3030]

That fact that disabled people are even included in this argument says it all for me and means I won't be responding any further to this.

Well I didn't make up the categories, disability is included in the Victorian Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission.
Types of discrimination (https://www.humanrightscommission.vic.gov.au/the-workplace/workplace-discrimination/type-of-discrimination).

[FenceFurniture]

Crikey. A stark reminder of what I (don't) miss.

Next thing you know, Trolls will be looking for a support group.

[doug3030]

Crikey. A stark reminder of what I (don't) miss.

Next thing you know, Trolls will be looking for a support group.

But you seem to have all the support you need Brett.

[BobL]

My son along with a bunch of other folks with 3D printers has been cranking out hundred of face shield holders for medical staff although that seems to be coming to and end as more commercial medical PPE becomes available.

Following on from a story I saw on ABC 24 last night I sent my son the lead about these 3D printed "no touch door closer/openers" etc.
Within a couple of hours he found the dude on the internet got a copy of the file and started printing.
It turned out to be not that good a design but then at about 10am he found a bunch of other designs and printed a few out
The one shown below seems to be one of the better ones
These are held by the LHS hook with a pointing finger though the hole and the RHS hook is used to twist and pull open doors, push lift buttons etc.
There are heaps of different designs out there including some neat fold away designs that keep the touch hook inside a plastic cover.

472005

[RossM]

Aren't Google, Amazon, Chairman Xi and an entire industry already doing that?

Yes. And don't forget Facebook, probably THE evil empire of the technology world, by a significant margin.

I find it astonishing and sad that there was so much opposition to the Australia Card - triggering a double dissolution - and yet a majority of people are paying thousands of dollars (via their smart phone) for the privilege of being tracked to a level that George Orwell would find hard to imagine.

[justonething]

This is Donald Trump's dilemma.
Can you help him?

Leave it to the adults would be my advice to DT.

[doug3030]

I find it astonishing and sad that there was so much opposition to the Australia Card - triggering a double dissolution - and yet a majority of people are paying thousands of dollars (via their smart phone) for the privilege of being tracked to a level that George Orwell would find hard to imagine.

:whs:

[Bushmiller]

Can anyone imagine this scene in Australia? Simply because they are sick of the lockdown?

471993
Jeff Kowalsky/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

What's more, they are almost exclusively overweight middle-aged WHITE males with goatees. Not a woman in sight. I think there might be something in that for all of us.

Are we getting a little distracted from the point. Even ignoring the public display of military weaponry (I am taking the word of you blokes, being more knowledgeable than me on firepower, who hardly knows the difference between a Glock 17 and an AWM lapua magnum sniper rifle) the blatant flaunting of their lockdown policy seems weird. My question being is there no need for a lockdown?

So I looked into the statistics for Michigan, a state of nearly 10 million people bordering the Great Lakes. I couldn't find the total cases for Michigan, but the total deaths were 2,212. The major county, Wayne, which includes Detroit, had 13,223 cases and 1,044 deaths: That is a particularly bad ratio. The plot thickens when you realise that Trump had encouraged the population to defy the restrictions and that the governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer is a democrat. This looks horribly like a political ploy by Trump at the expense of the population and a play to coddle up to his red-neck supporters. It would be interesting to know how often he has attacked democrat governors compared to republican governors. I note that Andrew Cuomo, the republican governor of New York, is having quite a stoush with Trump.

Crises of this nature should be beyond politics.

It is shame that we can't allow them to dispense with the lockdown in Michigan and hope that those on the steps of their courthouse (I assume) are those to become seriously infected. Of course that doesn't happen in practice and it is the collateral damage that becomes the most sad aspect: Just like in any gunfight.

Anyhow, back in good old Oz, we appear to be performing much better than so many parts of the world. Actually, with a population two and a half times that of Michigan compare our cases (6547) and deaths (67).

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

The following article has a few interesting points. It questions the use of ventilators (based on hospital experiences), it describes the use of oxygen masks instead, it comments that severe cases present the symptoms of altitude sickness and describes the bizarre transition of patient health from laughing/joking to dire straits in a matter of minutes.

Coronavirus: Are 'live-saving' ventilators actually dangerous? | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html)

We still absolutely know so little about this virus.

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

I note that Andrew Cuomo, the republican governor of New York, is having quite a stoush with Trump.That's more likely because Cuomo is a Demo (there have been suggestions that he should challenge Biden, but he declared no intention because NY needed a steady hand)

[BobL]

We still absolutely know so little about this virus.

Very important point Paul. I'm not blaming the medical staff I'd say by far most they are trying to do their best but I wonder how the rush to bring in tech to solve problems clouds the issues.

[woodPixel]

Make whatever you want from that Brett. Able-bodied white heterosexual males are unique in being the only group that have no lobby group standing up for them. The world seems to support quotas and lobby groups for:

Women
Genders/sexual preferences other than heterosexual (all 97 of them)
Disabled people
minority ethnic groups

Good to see a group that has nobody else lobbying for them standing up for themselves. :2tsup:


I dont know - I look at that picture and I see PLENTY of disability and dysfunction:

-- ED
-- Depression
-- Alcohol abuse
-- Poverty
-- Insecurity
-- Brain damage
-- Lack of social inclusion
-- Stifled career
-- Low and/or lacking education

Add to that a history of wife/child abuse and probably an unhealthy obsession with the wrong sort of pr0n.

These are not typical men. They are unfortunate and sad remnants of a failing system... too stupid to realise their own absolute mediocrity and profoundly lacking the intelligence to remedy it.

They are fringe lunatics, no different to so-called middle-eastern jihadists, but a different country.

[FenceFurniture]

These are not typical men.Not in Australia, no.

[woodPixel]

Following on from a story I saw on ABC 24 last night I sent my son the lead about these 3D printed "no touch door closer/openers" etc.
Within a couple of hours he found the dude on the internet got a copy of the file and started printing.
It turned out to be not that good a design but then at about 10am he found a bunch of other designs and printed a few out
The one shown below seems to be one of the better ones
These are held by the LHS hook with a pointing finger though the hole and the RHS hook is used to twist and pull open doors, push lift buttons etc.
There are heaps of different designs out there including some neat fold away designs that keep the touch hook inside a plastic cover.

I present to you The Plague Stick!

Works wonderfully.

Opens doors, presses buttons, picks up bags, moves parcels, the lot!

Clever chimp :)

472006

[doug3030]

I present to you The Plague Stick!

Works wonderfully.

Opens doors, presses buttons, picks up bags, moves parcels, the lot!

I use a walking =stick because of my disability resulting from my military service (Yes, BobL, I'm discussing disability again, sorry if that "says it all" for you but to me it's a fact of life)

I have found myself using the various parts of the walking stick to be useful for many things like opening doors and pushing lift buttons etc.

[woodPixel]

Oh, internet, I hate thee.

Now, up pops a comic, almost tailored to the very conversations we are having here. I have every anti-spyware non-tracking anonymised browser and plugin ever devised and The They still throw up these things (so, says The Internet, "I heard you were talking about...")

Worth a bit of a giggle. We are all guilty of being "Dick" :)

472007

[Kuffy]

472007

Lol, nailed it! It's the internet's fault!

Before the internet, what did we call trolls?

[woodPixel]

I have found myself using the various parts of the walking stick to be useful for many things like opening doors and pushing lift buttons etc.

My wife also uses one, due to the wild and whacky ever-changing vagaries of a big brain tumour.... but it has been very useful.

I can wave it at pesky teenagers who are loitering to get off my lawn!

472008

[Lappa]

Maybe if they stopped social distancing and open up the States with people protesting , in a few months the problem would be buried?

[RossM]

Before the internet, what did we call trolls?

Narcissistic sociopaths

[Bushmiller]

Lol, nailed it! It's the internet's fault!

Before the internet, what did we call trolls?

Grotesque misfits, full of anger, well-balanced ( chips on both shoulders :wink:), resorted to living under bridges, greedy and unable to know when they are out of their depth until a really big Gruff Billygoat comes along and gives them a huge helping of GBH.

Regards
Paul

[woodPixel]

Maybe if they stopped social distancing and open up the States with people protesting , in a few months the problem would be buried?

Is it all part of a Cunning Plan by The Grand Cheeto?

Drive all the nutters into the streets, in vast mobs, repeatedly, to cross pollinate and therefore be the perpetrators of their own doom?

472009


edit - I was catching up with the days news with a very decent latte and saw this rather profound article - Conservatives Fuel Protests Against Coronavirus Lockdowns - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/us/texas-protests-stay-at-home.html)

It makes me wonder. It really does. Imagine this being in your city. Wow.

[FenceFurniture]

Conservatives Fuel Protests Against Coronavirus Lockdowns - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/us/texas-protests-stay-at-home.html)

It makes me wonder. It really does. Imagine this being in your city. Wow.A companion pic for you, from The Guardian.

472010

[justonething]

Are we getting a little distracted from the point. Even ignoring the public display of military weaponry (I am taking the word of you blokes, being more knowledgeable than me on firepower, who hardly knows the difference between a Glock 17 and an AWM lapua magnum sniper rifle) the blatant flaunting of their lockdown policy seems weird. My question being is there no need for a lockdown?

So I looked into the statistics for Michigan, a state of nearly 10 million people bordering the Great Lakes. I couldn't find the total cases for Michigan, but the total deaths were 2,212. The major county, Wayne, which includes Detroit, had 13,223 cases and 1,044 deaths: That is a particularly bad ratio. The plot thickens when you realise that Trump had encouraged the population to defy the restrictions and that the governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer is a democrat. This looks horribly like a political ploy by Trump at the expense of the population and a play to coddle up to his red-neck supporters. It would be interesting to know how often he has attacked democrat governors compared to republican governors. I note that Andrew Cuomo, the republican governor of New York, is having quite a stoush with Trump.

Crises of this nature should be beyond politics.

It is shame that we can't allow them to dispense with the lockdown in Michigan and hope that those on the steps of their courthouse (I assume) are those to become seriously infected. Of course that doesn't happen in practice and it is the collateral damage that becomes the most sad aspect: Just like in any gunfight.

Anyhow, back in good old Oz, we appear to be performing much better than so many parts of the world. Actually, with a population two and a half times that of Michigan compare our cases (6547) and deaths (67).

Regards
Paul

You can see state by state break down here. United States Coronavirus: 738,913 Cases and 39,015 Deaths - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)
Andrew Cuomo, the brother of CNN anchor Chris Cuomo is actually a democrat. Trump can't successfully attack Cuomo because Trump is not popular in New York at all and not many people listen to him there.

[woodhutt]

Yes. And don't forget Facebook, probably THE evil empire of the technology world, by a significant margin.



:2tsup:

[woodhutt]

It does seem rather odd that these spontaneous (ahem!) displays of discontent should be taking place in those states with Democratic senators given that there are also Republican led states who also have lock-down regimes at the moment.

The two photos showing angry demonstrators protesting outside their state's Capitol (?) buildings (maybe Courthouse?) put me in mind of the angry, flaming-torch wielding mob storming Frankenstein's castle in the old movies.
Pete

[justonething]

A companion pic for you, from The Guardian.

472010
I hope they are watching the one world together concert on ABC and NBC after a hard day protesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOYLyJ7KYw

[GraemeCook]

No, I spent my 20 year and two day Army Career working as an Intelligence Analyst, among other things.


Hi Doug

Maybe jargon has changed in the last 50 years.

I worked in a civy job at Defence in the sixties at the height of the Vietnam War and then Sigs was commonly referred to as "the other switchboard". All we knew was a building that we did not go into.

[doug3030]

Hi Doug

Maybe jargon has changed in the last 50 years.

I worked in a civy job at Defence in the sixties at the height of the Vietnam War and then Sigs was commonly referred to as "the other switchboard". All we knew was a building that we did not go into.

Yes terminology changes with time. When I was working there I was like WoodPixel said earlier - we were all cleaners, gardeners or worked in the canteen.

I have been out of that field now for a quarter of a century and I feel it is safe now to tell people what my job title was but not necessarily what it entailed. I have no information from that time that would currently be of use to anyone any more.

One thing that remains with me from those days is the ability to be able to work out what is really happening in the world from the lies and half-truths put out by the media.

[GraemeCook]

That's what the govt said through Stuart Roberts (If he knows what he's saying).


I think there might be a contradiction there. He is amongst the dopiest ever.


I did not know who Stuart Roberts was, so I googled, and top of the list was a this headline from the Guardian.
Stuart Robert's incompetence on MyGov should accelerate his ... (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj51Ja45PPoAhWYyDgGHQQ2CEEQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2020%2Fmar%2F24%2Fstuart-roberts-incompetence-on-mygov-should-accelerate-his-own-social-isolation&usg=AOvVaw3_IVxwkWFKX2WBVbweOzxn)Little point in reading further or doing more research!

[Just repeat my "research" if you think I am making this up.

[GraemeCook]

Graeme

I'm in the same boat. Ohhhh...errr. I could probably have phrased that better.

Regards
Paul


Quiet, now, Paul

Gerry Harvey will want ScoMo to make it compulsory for everyone to own a "coronavirus monitoring" mobile. Purely for the purpose of saving mankind, and nothing to do with the profit line.

[GraemeCook]

Can anyone imagine this scene in Australia? Simply because they are sick of the lockdown?

471993
Jeff Kowalsky/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

What's more, they are almost exclusively overweight middle-aged WHITE males with goatees. Not a woman in sight. I think there might be something in that for all of us.

FF; you omitted to caption your photo.

Is it a meeting of Mensa ?

[Bushmiller]

Quiet, now, Paul

Gerry Harvey will want ScoMo to make it compulsory for everyone to have a coronavirus monitoring mobile.

Sorry Graeme, sorry.

(speaks sotto voce) I am not actually opposed to mobile phones per se as I can see where they are very useful. I do despair a little at how often they appear in people's hands, but look at me on the computer contributing to Nothing About Woodwork so who am I to cast judgement there. My beef is with the absurd amount of money I have to part with for the pleasure of such communication.

So the question is "who will pay for my phone?" At work they have on record our mobile phones so they can text us at a single stroke if they are short of people or have some other emergency. "Paul. Do you have a mobile number?"

"No."

End of conversation. Clearly not important enough for them to supply me with a device and pay for a plan. An impasse.

Regards
Paul

[GraemeCook]

https://www.woodworkforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by RossMhttps://www.woodworkforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f43/coronavirus-empty-shelves-233039-post2183915#post2183915)

I find it astonishing and sad that there was so much opposition to the Australia Card - triggering a double dissolution - and yet a majority of people are paying thousands of dollars (via their smart phone) for the privilege of being tracked to a level that George Orwell would find hard to imagine.


QUOTE=doug3030;2183917]:whs:[/QUOTE]


:whs:

[Bushmiller]

FF; you omitted to caption your photo.

Is it a meeting of Mensa ?

Yes...

It's "corporate" Mensa. Add up the IQ of any twenty persons and you have one member. In this case the combined score probably easily exceeds 148, although on reflection that may also include the cameraman on the right at the back, who I don't believe is part of the protesting group (no goatee and only prepared to shoot with a camera) :(.

A further thought has just occurred. Could this be the "trigger" the US was looking for to ramp back the lock down restrictions?

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

There seems to be a lot of nationally known celebrities dying in the States (with a few internationally known ones too). So much so that the newspapers are sometimes saying "So and So did NOT die from Coronavirus related illness.

[GraemeCook]

The following article has a few interesting points. It questions the use of ventilators (based on hospital experiences), it describes the use of oxygen masks instead, it comments that severe cases present the symptoms of altitude sickness and describes the bizarre transition of patient health from laughing/joking to dire straits in a matter of minutes.

Coronavirus: Are 'live-saving' ventilators actually dangerous? | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html)

We still absolutely know so little about this virus.

Regards
Paul


Sorry Paul,

This article does sound credible, but it was sourced from the Daily Mail, a British tabloid with a very creative reputation for news reporting.

Let us hope that something on the same issues is published in a medical journal.

[Lappa]

. Could this be the "trigger" the US was looking for to ramp back the lock down restrictions?

Regards
Paul

Very droll Paul, very droll.

[GraemeCook]

I present to you The Plague Stick!

Works wonderfully.

Opens doors, presses buttons, picks up bags, moves parcels, the lot!

Clever chimp :)

472006



Whacking recalcitrant Forumites?

[FenceFurniture]

... but it was sourced from the Daily Mail, a British tabloid with a very creative reputation for news reporting....It may have been sourced from the Daily Mail but unlikely that one of their journos wrote it. The Australian arm of the Daily Mail features exceptionally regularly on Media Watch - at least twice per month. They are a pack of plagiarists who write nothing original, and cherry pick their plagiarised stories to the limit of "must be sensational BS click bait".

[NeilS]

Able-bodied white heterosexual males are unique in being the only group that have no lobby group standing up for them. ... Good to see a group that has nobody else lobbying for them standing up for themselves.



Yes, I guess they do have to stand up for themselves.



Obviously the disabled can't do it. Some of them don't even have legs to stand up on, even for themselves, and others can't see where to stand because they are blind, like my mate. While the mentally ill just aren't sufficiently aware of others to see the desperate plight of those able-bodied white heterosexual males.




And, as usual, those women are holding down a job and trying to get ahead in their careers to help pay for the mortgage, as well as multitasking the bulk of the domestic labour and childcare. That is when they are not trying to avoid domestic violence (1 woman a week dies at hands of partner) and pretending they are not too exhausted for you know what. Anyway, women just don't understand how tough life is for an able-bodied white heterosexual male.




Likewise, forget about those gender/sexual preference lot. What would they know about very masculine heterosexuals? They are worse than the hetrosexual women. Anyway, no self respecting able-bodied white heterosexual male would want anything to do with them. Like, it could be catching or if the alphabets started lobbying for them it might be thought that able-bodied white heterosexual male are not as hetrosexual as they would like everyone else to think they are!




That comes to the minority ethnic groups. Where to start? Take for example the aborigines. They reckon they are so hard done dying 8-9 years younger, having much poorer health and housing despite all living off our welfare and drinking less alcohol than the rest of us, that they don't seem to think able-bodied white heterosexual males are one of their priorities to go in to bat for. While the other ethnics are too busy filling the top places in our universities with their second generation kids. Somehow they think that life is OK here and don't seem to get the plight of the able-bodied white heterosexual male at all.


So, yes, the able-bodied white heterosexual males are just going to have to stand up for themselves. Nobody else seems to be doing it for them the way they feel it should be done for them.

I feel for all those downtrodden able-bodied white heterosexual males that they feel the need to have to stand up for themselves. Those that are lobbying for the other groups that are being discriminated against have a lot to answer for and are probably the reason why the downtrodden able-bodied white heterosexual males are having such a bad time of it.

[GraemeCook]

.....The Australian arm of the Daily Mail features exceptionally regularly on Media Watch - at least twice per month. .....

Media Watch still has an audience ? Of at least one!

[FenceFurniture]

>=2

[Bushmiller]

Having grown up: Nope, I'll rephrase that: Having spent my formative years in the UK, I am aware of the Daily Mail's ranking in the integrity stakes and I did hesitate to link them. However, I felt it was as Graeme said "credible," but this is just a gut feeling and only time will tell. If patients being treated with the ventilator are dying there may well be some truth. I may pursue the story some more to assess the validity ( or maybe one of the sleuths would like to have a go too as I am certainly not precious about it).

Just as a point of interest, the "blog" I linked to early in this thread (about a thousand years ago roughly) from Craig Dalton may be regarded as bona fide. He is one of a panel of eight who have been advising the federal government. The irony here is that just because the panel gives advice, it does not mean this is automatically adopted! Read into that what you will.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

You can see state by state break down here. United States Coronavirus: 738,913 Cases and 39,015 Deaths - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)
Andrew Cuomo, the brother of CNN anchor Chris Cuomo is actually a democrat. Trump can't successfully attack Cuomo because Trump is not popular in New York at all and not many people listen to him there.

Thanks JOT

Michigan is number six on the worst affected. Over 30,000 cases. Ironic?

Trump is nevertheless still having a go at Cuomo. Even if NY is a lost cause for him, he probably thinks it makes him look good in his heartland. Oh, hold on, there is no evidence he has one of those organs.

Regards
Paul

[A Duke]

Hi,
I had the impression they only went onto the ventilator after the oxygen mask was not working.
Could be wrong but that was what i gathered.
Regards

[BobL]

I like the NZ solution to tracing. Keep a diary and every night note down you who met up with and spoke to that day for 15 minutes. I guess they must all know each other? "Err . . . the lady with the yellow and white checked pillbox I sat behind on the bus, . . . . . . "

Dear Diary: Ardern'''s new COVID-19 stopper (https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/dear-diary-ardern-s-new-covid-19-stopper-20200419-p54l6b.html)

[doug3030]

I like the NZ solution to tracing. Keep a paper diary and every night write down you who met up with and spoke to that day. I guess they must all know each other?

And all the sheep have names.

[Tccp123]

Yes, I guess they do have to stand up for themselves.



Obviously the disabled can't do it. Some of them don't even have legs to stand up on, even for themselves, and others can't see where to stand because they are blind, like my mate. While the mentally ill just aren't sufficiently aware of others to see the desperate plight of those able-bodied white heterosexual males.




And, as usual, those women are holding down a job and trying to get ahead in their careers to help pay for the mortgage, as well as multitasking the bulk of the domestic labour and childcare. That is when they are not trying to avoid domestic violence (1 woman a week dies at hands of partner) and pretending they are not too exhausted for you know what. Anyway, women just don't understand how tough life is for an able-bodied white heterosexual male.




Likewise, forget about those gender/sexual preference lot. What would they know about very masculine heterosexuals? They are worse than the hetrosexual women. Anyway, no self respecting able-bodied white heterosexual male would want anything to do with them. Like, it could be catching or if the alphabets started lobbying for them it might be thought that able-bodied white heterosexual male are not as hetrosexual as they would like everyone else to think they are!




That comes to the minority ethnic groups. Where to start? Take for example the aborigines. They reckon they are so hard done dying 8-9 years younger, having much poorer health and housing despite all living off our welfare and drinking less alcohol than the rest of us, that they don't seem to think able-bodied white heterosexual males are one of their priorities to go in to bat for. While the other ethnics are too busy filling the top places in our universities with their second generation kids. Somehow they think that life is OK here and don't seem to get the plight of the able-bodied white heterosexual male at all.


So, yes, the able-bodied white heterosexual males are just going to have to stand up for themselves. Nobody else seems to be doing it for them the way they feel it should be done for them.

I feel for all those downtrodden able-bodied white heterosexual males that they feel the need to have to stand up for themselves. Those that are lobbying for the other groups that are being discriminated against have a lot to answer for and are probably the reason why the downtrodden able-bodied white heterosexual males are having such a bad time of it.

Gee NeilS the Bowelturner, you must have had a REALLY bad day...

[woodPixel]

472045

[Tccp123]

472045

Not strictly true (though I think the sentiment is correct). I sold a boat today for $14,000 but I doubt it was an "essential" purchase...

[woodhutt]

And all the sheep have names.

A written diary shows the level of literacy skills here in NZ. No need to consider an app for our citizens. :U

And of course our sheep have names. How else would we call them in at night? :roll:

Pete

[Tccp123]

...and I sold a camera on Friday for $910. Once again not an essential purchase.

[doug3030]

Gee NeilS the Bowelturner, you must have had a REALLY bad day...

I thought it was an awesome effort to put that much thought into replying to a tongue-in-cheek post. :2tsup:

[Fuzzie]

Hi,
I had the impression they only went onto the ventilator after the oxygen mask was not working.
Could be wrong but that was what i gathered.
Regards

Australia doesn't use the oxygen helmets we saw in footage from Italy. They work differently to the common oxygen feed up the nose used here. The helmets are at positive pressure and forces a bit more O2 into the lungs than just trying to breathe it normally. Either way I guess with a helmet you would get at least a few more hours before a ventilator is absolutely required?

I figure we are all going to catch this one eventually, just like the common cold, and being a corona virus, just like the common cold, a vaccine is not going to happen. I just hope they've got the best treatments worked out by the time it comes around to my turn. I also fear just like the common cold it is going to come back regularly, I'm skeptical of herd immunity. I understand social distancing works, I know I've had far fewer common colds since I retired and didn't have as much association with colleagues with young families with school age germ factories! But I also know I really don't want to continue living in isolation mode for too extended a period.

[Tccp123]

"I figure we are all going to catch this one eventually"

Out of the mouths of babes...

[FenceFurniture]

An interesting read:
Is the Virus on My Clothes? My Shoes? My Hair? My Newspaper? - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/well/live/coronavirus-contagion-spead-clothes-shoes-hair-newspaper-packages-mail-infectious.html)

[woodhutt]

I like the NZ solution to tracing. Keep a diary and every night note down you who met up with and spoke to that day for 15 minutes. I guess they must all know each other? "Err . . . the lady with the yellow and white checked pillbox I sat behind on the bus, . . . . . . "


Bob. I told the lady in question, Mrs Edna Skrimshank, about your post thinking she'd be pleased to have been mentioned. Unfortunately, she was very upset at having been singled-out and identified on a public forum in a way that everyone in NZ would know who you were talking about.
I've a feeling you'll be hearing from her solicitor...
Pete

[Bushmiller]

Some information on the ventilator controversy:

Why Ventilators May Not Be Working Well for COVID-19 Patients | Time (https://time.com/5820556/ventilators-covid-19/)

Time had attempted to contact Cameron Kyle-Sidell, without success. He was probably either treating patients or sleeping so no surprise there and should not be taken as suspicious. This is his U tube video:

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GYTc53r2o)

and another interview:

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elgct0nOcKY)

Make up your own minds, but I would suggest we remember that Covid-19 may not behave like other "flu" viruses. Whatever the verdict, it looks to be a genuine report and not a tabloid fantasy.

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

Today's spreadsheet attached.

Only real notable point is that Australia continues to slide down # cases list, dropping 6 positions to 38.

USA and Europe continue to hog all the top (worst) spots with 75% of cases and 86% of deaths, even though they only have 11% of the world population.

[woodhutt]

clear out. Regarding Mrs E. Skrimshank and your request for photos, I contacted the dear lady this morning.
Unfortunately, since being so brutally outed by BobL, she has been inundated with such requests - some of them rather saucily asking for photos of her wearing nothing but her signature pill-box hat - and as you can imagine, such requests are rather upsetting to a lady of a certain age and a long-standing member of the WI.
Someone did manage to snap a short video of her entering the local pharmacy to buy surgical stockings and they posted it on EweTube - our local video platform - where it immediately 'went viral' (if one is allowed such an expression in these trying times).
Since then, she has appointed an agent to handle such requests and is demanding a fee. So, if you will send me NZ$20 I will obtain a photo and forward to you,
Pete

[NeilS]

Gee NeilS the Bowelturner, you must have had a REALLY bad day...

Ohhhh...such wit!

[FenceFurniture]

Yes, but what sort of wit?

[Bushmiller]

We have discussed some of the issues confronting Covid-19 in the US.

Firstly there is the unusual stance of the the president in the face of statistics, which I feel sure he would quote if it suited him. Some have declared that he is evil, but it is not for me to say such things. Then there is the attitude of the people and their undying (that was an ironic pun) belief that the second amendment gives the the right to go and do whatever they want no matter the consequences. There is the red-neck brigade who despite rising numbers of cases want the lockdown curtailed, and if the pix are an indicator, are prepared to go to war over it. Finally (maybe not finally, but this is a far as I am going) there is this little pointer, which one of my BILs sent. Initially my interest wandered straight off, but then rapidly returned as I saw the point. It is short. Just over a minute.

472168

Wow! I don't think they stand a chance unless they dramatically change their thinking. The worst is still to come for them.

Regards
Paul

Not sure if this will load properly. See how I go.

[NeilS]

Some information on the ventilator controversy:

Why Ventilators May Not Be Working Well for COVID-19 Patients | Time (https://time.com/5820556/ventilators-covid-19/)

Time had attempted to contact Cameron Kyle-Sidell, without success. He was probably either treating patients or sleeping so no surprise there and should not be taken as suspicious. This is his U tube video:

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GYTc53r2o)

and another interview:

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elgct0nOcKY)

Make up your own minds, but I would suggest we remember that Covid-19 may not behave like other "flu" viruses. Whatever the verdict, it looks to be a genuine report and not a tabloid fantasy.

Regards
Paul

Many thanks for posting those links, Paul.

No question, those links are the real deal.

It's rare to have something like that second video which gives such an insight into how the ED specialist in those Covid-19 hot spots are struggling to work out what is exactly going on with this virus and the best way to deal with it in their critically ill patients. This 'novel' virus is behaving so differently that they all feel the need to take time out to regularly videoconferencing with each other to share their experiences and ideas so that they can learn from each other. Smart move. Smart people.

It also struck me how exhausted they all looked, but if I end up in an ED with this virus I would want someone like those people managing my case. I always feel more confident with doctors who know that they don't know.

[GraemeCook]

.....I don't think they stand a chance unless they dramatically change their thinking. The worst is still to come ......


Amen.

[A Duke]

Yes, but what sort of wit?
If wit were sh** I would be a sewerage farm.
:wink:

[doug3030]

I always feel more confident with doctors who know that they don't know.

A bit like the old saying "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach".

The modern equivalent is "Those that can, do; those that can't, post about it on youtube, facebook and forums". :rolleyes:

[GraemeCook]

First I will qualify this post by stating that I worked for some years as an economist on economic policy, and economists almost always work with incomplete and out of date data. I am comfortable with known ambiguity; timeliness is almost always a preeminent requirement. I quite realise that this is anathema to those from a scientific or engineering background that love the precision of all those decimals. But one works with the data that one has.

This started as a simple post exploring the significant differences between coronavirus infection rates and death rates (especially) in Germany and the United Kingdom.

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The diffeence in infection rates is, prima facie, explainable by Germany's 30% larger population, but then there is that massive difference in the reported death rates. At first I thought that the greatly lower death rate in Germany would be attributable to their far higher test regimes, meaning that may cases would be detected earlier, treated earlier while they were still mild, and cured.

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Germany has been testing at a far higher rate - between 4 and 5 tests per thousand per week and by the 19-04-20 would have conducted almost five times as may tests as the UK per capita - circa 26 tests. (And about 60% more tests per capita than Australia.)

This very extensive testing seems to be paying off in the comparatively low death rates. Also note that Germany has land borders and its close proximity to France, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium and Holland - all of whom have high infection and death rates. UK is an island so its borders should be more defensible.

But wait, there's more ... and it gets worse.
[posting split for size reasons.]

[derekcohen]

A bit like the old saying "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach".

The modern equivalent is "Those that can, do; those that can't, post about it on youtube, facebook and forums". :rolleyes:

Thanks Doug. :rolleyes:

Regards from Perth

Derek

[GraemeCook]

There have been many reports suggesting that Britain may be understating its infection rate by perhaps 20% but it is difficult to find reputable sources for this assertion. I am not saying it is wrong; just that it requires better substantiation.

But many sources state that the British figures are collected by National Health Service from hospitals that it controls. This means that the NHS only collects data on infections and deaths that are in hospitals. Specifically, it does not collect data from care homes or from the wider community. And given Britain's low level of testing (20% that of Germany per capita) there must be many more cases undiagnosed in nursing homes and the community.

This supports the argument that Britain is significantly under-reporting both infections and deaths. But by how much?

A group of academics at the London School of Economics analysed the coronavirus data for a range of European countries and found that a very significant number of deaths from coronavirus actaully occured in care homes.

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Their statistics show that approximately 50% of coronavirus deaths in the five European countries incurred in care homes. If the same ratio applies in Britain then it suggests that the progressive death rate has been understated by about 16,000 and that around 32,000 have already died from the virus. If the British death rate in care homes is only half that in Europe then the revised death figure is still 24,000.

These figures are catastrophic. And I do not think there is any evidence that British nursing homes are substantially better managed than continental ones.

And I have not attempted to quantify those cases of coronavirus that remain in the community, where people are treated in their homes, and the unfortunates who die undiagnosed.

The British Office of National Statistics (ONS) has published some preliminary data which report significantly higher numbers than the NHS but, as ever, there is a substantial time delay. Stats offices always favour accuracy over timeliness! The bane of economists - "I needed that last month!"

I hope I am wrong. But something smells.

[Lappa]

A bit like the old saying "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach".

The modern equivalent is "Those that can, do; those that can't, post about it on youtube, facebook and forums". :rolleyes:

Does that mean that a crafts person who is teaching/passing on their skills to an apprentice really is not a crafts person because they can’t “do” because they are teaching?

[NeilS]

yes, but what sort of wit?

..... : ~)

[BobL]

I reckon that unless a country REPEATEDLY tests a sizeable proportion of their population, the so called measured infection rates are are a poor indicator of the real rates. This then makes comparisons between infections and deaths are a bit of a waste of time. If known infection rates are especially high it's not good enough to perform one test today and expect that to count for more than a couple of days because some one negative today can become positive tomorrow. In these cases people have to be repeatedly tested for a proper handle to be obtained on rates of infection, no badly affected country is yet close to doing this.

I'm starting to look at all these numbers with a large dose of salts, For a whole lot of reasons the numbers of deaths being reported are also becoming increasingly unreliable. The Chinese numbers were recently revised but they don't really know the number of deaths or they're not saying. Some countries are not counting anyone with underlying medical causes and some don't bother counting bodies in the streets. Some countries don't count A death as being due to COVID19 unless a specific positive COVOD19 test has been confirmed on the patient before they die. Many people especially the third world distrust doctors and modern medicine so look to alternative medicine so they don't get counted in ether infections or deaths. Even in first world world countries like the Netherlands, where they have a long history of home palliative care, many of the deceased don't even make it to hospital or a testing centre and there's simply too many deaths for autopsies to confirm COVID19. My guess in in Chermany you VILL BE TAKEN TO ZE HOSPITAL! I also wouldn't put it past some countries not counting Non-citizens.

[ian]

As I understand it, the app uses Bluetooth. What is to stop BT being turned off, due to low battery power, if you catch my drift?
Bluetooth turned off = presumptive criminal act
GPS location turned off = presumptive criminal act

leaving home without your mobile = presumptive criminal act



BTW
I understand the newer (i.e. since abut 2016) GPS chips are accurate to about 2 metres.

[BobL]

It's a crap app.

Not only does the phone have to be on, it also only runs in foreground ie has to be unlocked. So you head off for your walk or hop on the bus and you listen to you fave music and 60 seconds later it locks itself hence no data collected until you unlock it.

The google/Apple App runs in back ground so works when the phone is locked.

[Greg Ward]

To all the armchair critics regarding testing and virus management.
Test kits don't just come from thin air, so early testing was only possible and is still only possible with what is around to use. Testing here as well as overseas was aimed at those with potential exposure or symptoms as there were insufficient swabs AND testing paraphernalia etc. to carry out more expansive testing. This is still the case.
It is easy to criticise lack of testing but governments can only use what they have.
This virus was not expected, so it takes time for all PE gear, masks, ventilators to be produced and sourced.
An understanding of logistics may assist all armchair critics in understanding what has occurred and is still occurring.
Finally to those predicting gloom, don't underestimate the capacity of the US to ramp up production of all gear needed, nor of China to assist globally as well.

[doug3030]

Does that mean that a crafts person who is teaching/passing on their skills to an apprentice really is not a crafts person because they can’t “do” because they are teaching?

As I said in the original post it's just a saying. If you haven't heard it before you probably younger than me.

If I had said "A stitch in time saves nine" would you go out and count them? Are there ANY old sayings that were meant to be taken 100% literally? Not that I know of.

I am looking forward to the end of the bushfires, climate change debate and coronavirus outbreak in the simple hope that this forum can go back to the friendly and helpful place it used to be, if it ever does. All we have now is some, not all, people actively looking to score cheap points as if enforcing their opinions on everyone else will somehow save the planet. NEWS FLASH - It won't make a shred of difference. All it is doing is driving others away from what used to be a great forum.

[Lappa]

I’ve been aware of that saying for many, many years and I’ve always thought it was crap as some of the people I’ve learnt the most from were great teachers which fantastic skills.

The problem is I’ve only heard that saying uttered by people who couldn’t be bothered passing skills or knowledge on or didn’t have the skills to do so.

[Kuffy]

I've heard the saying "if you can't do, teach" many times, often used to describe trade school teachers. However, I post to Youtube, Facebook and the forums, and I know I can't do. That's why I'm a fan of the saying "fake it till you make it!" :D

[BobL]

To all the armchair critics regarding testing and virus management.
Test kits don't just come from thin air, so early testing was only possible and is still only possible with what is around to use. Testing here as well as overseas was aimed at those with potential exposure or symptoms as there were insufficient swabs AND testing paraphernalia etc. to carry out more expansive testing. This is still the case.
It is easy to criticise lack of testing but governments can only use what they have.
This virus was not expected, so it takes time for all PE gear, masks, ventilators to be produced and sourced.


I'm not so easy on the authorities especially regarding PPE.
The last practice for the pandemic was 2008 - they knew it was coming sooner or later - too distracted by GFC and political bickering.
Critical stockpiles? all let run down or let go out of date.
We're lucky we've got to where we are.

[doug3030]

The problem is I’ve only heard that saying uttered by people who couldn’t be bothered passing skills or knowledge on or didn’t have the skills to do so.

Well now you have heard it from me. Some of my best memories of my Army career were when I was instructing in Army or Joint Service schools or with Australian Army Training Teams working overseas in other countries training their military.

Teaching is very rewarding.

[artful bodger]

This one was a couple of years before my start date.
Must say I'd never heard of it before.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/18/china/great-manchurian-plague-china-hnk-intl/index.html

[Tccp123]

I am looking forward to the end of the bushfires, climate change debate and coronavirus outbreak in the simple hope that this forum can go back to the friendly and helpful place it used to be, if it ever does.

C'mon Doug, if that ever happened what would all these old codgers do all day? "Debating" these issues gives most of them a reason to get up in the morning. The secret is not to take it too seriously :-) As many have said, it won't make an iota of difference.

[NeilS]

Paul - I have also been watching the stats from Norway and comparing them to Germany and the UK. Putting aside Bob's misgivings (for good reasons) about the validity of the stats, there are some similar inferences that can be drawn from Norway.

They have had the highest testing rate per capita of any large country at 26,224/m, with a case load of 1,310/m, but a death rate of only 30/m. That's better than Germany with a testing rate of 20,629/m, a case load of 1,739/m and death rate of 55/m. And, the UK with a testing rate of only 7,101/m, case load of 1,769/m, and a death rate of 237/m.

Besides their high testing rate, Norway also went early and hard with its restrictions. Their excellent health system may also be another factor in their better performance.

And, of course, NZ is an even a more outstanding performer with a testing rate of 17,897/m, a case load of 299/m and just 2/m deaths. NZ and Norway share similar distributions of their populations that may have contributed to their similar success.

False negatives aside, much like NZ, I'm more confident with the stats out of Norway than many other countries.

[Tccp123]

Paul - I have also been watching the stats from Norway and comparing them to Germany and the UK.

Does anyone really care?

[Tccp123]

Does anyone really care?

Apparently not...

[doug3030]

Does anyone really care?

Of course there are people who care about the stats in Norway, Germany and the UK.

The real question is if anyone cares that some bloke in lockdown in the Adelaide Hills with no ability to influence the outcome, is comparing them.

[Bushmiller]

Paul - I have also been watching the stats from Norway and comparing them to Germany and the UK. Putting aside Bob's misgivings (for good reasons) about the validity of the stats, there are some similar inferences that can be drawn from Norway.

They have had the highest testing rate per capita of any large country at 26,224/m, with a case load of 1,310/m, but a death rate of only 30/m. That's better than Germany with a testing rate of 20,629/m, a case load of 1,739/m and death rate of 55/m. And, the UK with a testing rate of only 7,101/m, case load of 1,769/m, and a death rate of 237/m.

Besides their high testing rate, Norway also went early and hard with its restrictions. Their excellent health system may also be another factor in their better performance.

And, of course, NZ is an even a more outstanding performer with a testing rate of 17,897/m, a case load of 299/m and just 2/m deaths. NZ and Norway share similar distributions of their populations that may have contributed to their similar success.

False negatives aside, much like NZ, I'm more confident with the stats out of Norway than many other countries.

Thanks Neil

I looked up the cases for Norway and it was 7108 with 165 deaths. (Good old Oz is doing pretty well compared to almost everybody).

Who cares about a small Scandinavian country with only 5,367,580 people? Probably at least 5,367,580 Norwegians for starters and one Australian ex-pat from Millmerran and his Czechian girlfriend. Actually there are two more Australians in Millmerran who care quite a bit about their son. Luckily he is in the very far North, Just a few kilometers away from the Russian border. They went for a snowmobile ride over Easter to the border area much in the same way Aussies in better times go for a picnic.

Who cares? Aaaaargh.

"Never send to know for whom the bell tolls. it tolls for thee."

Regards
Paul

[Beardy]

Well on an upside I think it is fair to say our authorities have done a great job in minimising the viral impact on Australian soil. Their tactics have proven to have been the right course to date.

How we move forward from here will be interesting

[Glider]

I'm not so easy on the authorities especially regarding PPE.
The last practice for the pandemic was 2008 - they knew it was coming sooner or later - too distracted by GFC and political bickering.
Critical stockpiles? all let run down or let go out of date.
We're lucky we've got to where we are.

I'm not a fan of politicians of any stripe but I'll give credit where it's due. This one came right out of the blue. Sure, with the clarity of hindsight we should have been better prepared. SE Asia had recent experience with SARS and recognised the potential earlier but it hardly touched Oz. Asians have been wearing face masks for yonks, way before this crisis. I always thought it was slightly peculiar.

The national cabinet has done a terrific job as has most of our population listening to the experts and doing exactly what they recommend. And we're winning hands down. The balance between peoples lives and their livelihood is a terrible responsibility. How much better off we would be if they tackled the other threats facing us with the same urgency and vigour? I guess the consequences have to be shoved in their faces before they realise they have to act.

Fear is a great motivator.

mick

p.s. I'll be in the shed if you want me.

[Bushmiller]

The national cabinet has done a terrific job as has most of our population listening to the experts and doing exactly what they recommend. And we're winning hands down. The balance between peoples lives and their livelihood is a terrible responsibility. How much better off we would be if they tackled the other threats facing us with the same urgency and vigour? I guess the consequences have to be shoved in their faces before they realise they have to act.

Fear is a great motivator.

mick

p.s. I'll be in the shed if you want me.

When people start to talk about the constraints of the lockdown and the economic consequences my reaction is to point to other countries and ask if we would like to be in their position? America, UK, Germany, etc ( I was going to list them, but there are too many).

As Beardy said:

"How we move forward from here will be interesting."

Too much too soon and we will be back to square one.

Regards
Paul