CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

[Beardy]

Stupid parable - it has a fatal flaw.

The "10th man" will never pay his 60%. In fact he will just use his lawyers, tax accountants, trusts, offshore companies and banks domiciled in Ireland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, the Caribbean etc etc to ensure that he looks just like the first 4 or 5 blokes in the list. To see the extent of this just look at Mossack Fonseca - one small law firm in one minor tax haven. over 200,000 companies implicated and tens of thousands of people from heads of state to low profile individuals, all avoiding contributing to the societies where this wealth is stripped.

You want to keep believing in fairy-tales - go on - but trickle down economics is an abject failure - proven many times over.

Your reply has a fatal flaw in that the parable is on PAYG tax to which there are many example where this applies, before even looking at the incomes of directors,doctors, lawyers etc just look at the plain old mine workers and the big tax dollars they pay.
The companies be they offshore or here are paying a flat rate of tax regardless of the income

Just saying.

- - - Updated - - -


Stupid parable - it has a fatal flaw.

The "10th man" will never pay his 60%. In fact he will just use his lawyers, tax accountants, trusts, offshore companies and banks domiciled in Ireland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, the Caribbean etc etc to ensure that he looks just like the first 4 or 5 blokes in the list. To see the extent of this just look at Mossack Fonseca - one small law firm in one minor tax haven. over 200,000 companies implicated and tens of thousands of people from heads of state to low profile individuals, all avoiding contributing to the societies where this wealth is stripped.

You want to keep believing in fairy-tales - go on - but trickle down economics is an abject failure - proven many times over.

Your reply has a fatal flaw in that the parable is on PAYG tax to which there are many example where this applies, before even looking at the incomes of directors,doctors, lawyers etc just look at the plain old mine workers and the big tax dollars they pay.
The companies be they offshore or here are paying a flat rate of tax regardless of the income

Just saying.

[GraemeCook]

What are the characteristics that make it so much more contagious then?

BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000. Highly appropriate. OP.

[FenceFurniture]

It must be a curse to be poor :(


In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.When are you leaving?

[FenceFurniture]

BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000.¿Que?


:D

[Tccp123]

You want to keep believing in fairy-tales - go on - but trickle down economics is an abject failure - proven many times over.

...and if you're going to quote technical terms (i.e. trickle down economics) you should probably have some idea of what it means :)

[Beardy]

BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000. Highly appropriate. OP.

Not that it matters but do the post numbers vary with different platforms? Post number 1000 is NeilS on my iPad

[Tccp123]

Not that it matters but do the post numbers vary with different platforms? Post number 1000 is NeilS on my iPad
It is on mine too now (WindowsPC). Perhaps one of the members has had an offensive post removed?

[FenceFurniture]

Your reply has a fatal flaw in that the parable is on PAYG tax to which there are many example where this appliesSorry Beardy, but your rebuttal has a fatal flaw. There is no mention of PAYG tax. They could indeed all be self employed.


This:
But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

is a flaw, confected to make the story work for the author (nothing particularly wrong with that). Who said they didn't have enough money, and why wouldn't they?

[woodPixel]

And this FINALLY popped up this morning.....

Suspected SARS virus and flu germs found in luggage: FBI report describes China'''s '''biosecurity risk''' (https://news.yahoo.com/suspected-sars-virus-and-flu-found-in-luggage-fbi-report-describes-chinas-biosecurity-risk-144526820.html)

now, they jjjuuuuuusssstt have to join the dots.

-- WHERE did they get the samples
-- WHERE did the disease originate
-- WHAT was the precipitating event

Somebody in Wuhan walking this out of their BSL4 on the bottom of their foot.....

Come on media... its not too hard.... the information is out there. Its agonising how slow they are.

[woodPixel]

Stir crazy old men
Isolation forum frustration relief

Agreed. Lets start a competition!

Dovetails? A technical thing like a puzzle or precision/artistic challenge?

[doug3030]

BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000. Highly appropriate. OP.

From what I can see RossM got post number 1000 :no: :doh:

[Tccp123]

From what I can see RossM got post number 1000 :no: :doh:

Yes I suspect it's the mods at work deleting a member's offensive posts. If they get all of them I suspect the total number of posts might shrink to below 600...

[Chesand]

RossM got it on my computer too. Congratulations, have an elephant stamp. :D:2tsup: Sorry couldn't find one.

[FenceFurniture]

Crikey. You boys wouldn't make very good detectives. All the info is there.

:roflmao2:

Like I say, we need to have a bit fun. The trolls are in a spin.....they can smell it.......but they just can't see it.

[Tccp123]

Hey I'm now the winner!! FF put me onto it. It's socialism being put to work! We're all going to get turns at being the winner! What a great concept!

[GraemeCook]

Crikey. You boys wouldn't make very good detectives. All the info is there.

:roflmao2:

Like I say, we need to have a bit fun. The trolls are in a spin.....they can smell it.......but they just can't see it.


Brilliant, FenceFurniture.

Deleting your post #1000 was a masterstroke. Not quite the same as hiding it in plain sight!

[FenceFurniture]

Ah bin waitin 10 years to use this.

:gotcha:



:clown:

[Beardy]

Sorry Beardy, but your rebuttal has a fatal flaw. There is no mention of PAYG tax. They could indeed all be self employed.


This:
But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

is a flaw, confected to make the story work for the author (nothing particularly wrong with that). Who said they didn't have enough money, and why wouldn't they?

If you are self employed ie a sole trader you still fall under the PAYG tax scheme or if you are self employed as in run your own PTY LTD company you are still employed by that company and subject to PAYG tax so it is irrelevant, the same scale of taxation applies regardless

[FenceFurniture]

If you are self employed ie a sole trader you still fall under the PAYG tax scheme or if you are self employed as in run your own PTY LTD company you are still employed by that company and subject to PAYG tax so it is irrelevant, the same scale of taxation applies regardlessAhh, that's probably a "nope". The story comes from the USA, so is based on whatever their tax system/self employed system/company system is - certainly different to ours to some extent.

The first clue was the tax rate of 59% - I've never see a rate that high here, but you only had to click on the link in the original post here to see it goes an American site that published it in 2008.

Anyhoo, as you say, it's irrelevant, and certainly is irrelevant to this thread.

[doug3030]

it's irrelevant, and certainly is irrelevant to this thread....

[aldav]

I visit this thread occasionally to see what's going on, and occasionally is definitely too often! :D

[Beardy]

Ahh, that's probably a "nope". The story comes from the USA, so is based on whatever their tax system/self employed system/company system is - certainly different to ours to some extent.

The first clue was the tax rate of 59% - I've never see a rate that high here, but you only had to click on the link in the original post here to see it goes an American site that published it in 2008.

Anyhoo, as you say, it's irrelevant, and certainly is irrelevant to this thread.

Mate your response is like a politicians one playing with semantics. Play with the tax rate percentages all you like, the principal of the parable does not change.
I don’t know why people don’t like the truth, I for one am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do, I don’t know where else we are going to get it from bar smokes and pokies

[Tccp123]

Mate your response is like a politicians one playing with semantics. Play with the tax rate percentages all you like, the principal of the parable does not change.
I don’t know why people don’t like the truth, I for one am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do, I don’t know where else we are going to get it from bar smokes and pokies

Thank you Beardy, a breath of sanity. I couldn't have summed it up better:

1) The principle of the parable does not change
2) I don’t know why people don’t like the truth (me either!)
3) I am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do. The more the merrier!

[ian]

I don't really want to spend the time going back through this thread to find the reference or references from posters quoting John Hopkins as a primary source, but according to Worldometer, John Hopkins source their data from the Worldometer database.
source: Worldometer - About us (https://www.worldometers.info/about/)
quote: Worldometer's Covid-19 data is trusted and used by Johns Hopkins CSSE (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6), Financial Times (https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest), The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-data-logarithm-chart.html), Business Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/figures-show-us-soon-coronavirus-worse-china-2020-3), and many others.

not that it really matters.







Has anyone else noticed that Scott from Marketing is starting to look a little the worse for wear in the last few days?

[doug3030]

Has anyone else noticed that Scott from Marketing is starting to look a little the worse for wear in the last few days?

No I haven't noticed. But it would not surprise me if he is with the burden he is carrying right now. I would be more concerned if I noticed that he is fresh, carefree and relaxed. That surely would not be a good sign.

[rwbuild]

It wouldn't matter who was PM at the moment, who ever it is would be under enormous pressure, also all those who have the responsibility of advising, developing strategies and most of all the front line medical personnel, it won't hurt a few people here to take a chill pill and display a bit more respect, no one is perfect but everyone is trying their best regardless of anyone's particular view.

[FenceFurniture]

Mate your response is like a politicians one playing with semantics. Play with the tax rate percentages all you like, the principal of the parable does not change.
I don’t know why people don’t like the truth, I for one am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do, I don’t know where else we are going to get it from bar smokes and pokiesNah, I'm not disagreeing with the basic principle at all. I was only pointing that you rebuttal was based on it being PAYG tax in Australia, where it's actually based on the USA system - whatever that is (and the first clue for me to that was the 59% rate). That's all - I have no other argument with it. It's a bit lame, but....

[Tccp123]

I don't really want to spend the time going back through this thread to find the reference or references from posters quoting John Hopkins as a primary source, but according to Worldometer, John Hopkins source their data from the Worldometer database.

Thanks Ian. I've just been sent another important Covid-19 study result done by JHU:

Study: COVID-19 Impacts Men, Women More Than All Other Genders Combined | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/covid-19-impacting-men-women-more-than-all-other-genders-combined)

[ian]

A week ago, who would have thought hat a Liberal PM would come out with this much cred
Prime Minister Scott Morrison to spend $130 billion on wages scheme to support jobs during coronavirus pandemic - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-30/pm-announces-jobkeeper-wage-subsidy-scheme/12103478)

Bravo.
Well done, Scott.



Now to sort out a good plan for people paying rent

[FenceFurniture]

Has anyone else noticed that Scott from Marketing is starting to look a little the worse for wear in the last few days?I don't think I've watched him for about 3 days, but I'll bet he's not sleeping too well. Damned tough job at the moment, and probably about as tough as the front line medical staff, but in a different way. That doesn't change the fact that he was slow on the uptake, which has made it more difficult than it needed to be, but yeah, very stressful time for him and the Cabinet.

It might be the making of him as a PM actually, especially if we can continue in what appears to be a relatively good position, compared to other countries. In the last 48 hours the USA has increased cases by 32% (which is less than doubling every 3 days), and ours have increased by 25%. Deaths for USA (3170) up 45%, Aust (18) 12½%.

An increase of 26% per day results in doubling every three days.

[doug3030]

Now to sort out a good plan for people paying rent

Well if the job retention/wages scheme works out well then surely that will greatly reduce the need for rent relief.

[Lappa]

A message at 11am Sunday was what prompted me to post :lockd: on Sunday. We had to fill in a risk assessment for working from home and fill in a capability inventory. Monday we were told, if possible to work from home. News last night basically confirmed it - even the Police Commissioner Referred to it as a lock down this afternoon.
However an email this afternoon has me wondering. Summarised as follows: schools, TAFE and Unis are considered to be essential services therefore they are to stay open. All the new rules eg. 2 persons max etc don’t apply. Basically the only one mentioned was the 1.5m rule.
So, is it work from home, work from work, online classes, actual classes ???
Hopefully someone will clarify this tomorrow.

[GraemeCook]

As predicted, Virgin Airlines has started rattling the begging bowl for a staggering $1,400 million. Must admire their chutzpah.

According to their last financial report (2019) they lost about $1,000 million in the previous two years, and had balance day "interest-bearing liabilities - bank loans and bonds - of just over $3,000 million. Because they are not trading profitably they must borrow even more just to pay the interest!

Last week they had a market capitalisation of around $600 million. With debt of $3,000 mill their debt:equity ratio is a staggering 5:1. This is well into junk bond territory. Any D:E ratio above 2:1 is usually viewed as adventurous. And the company owes another $1,700 mill to its clients for airfares paid in advance.

And the company has virtually no collateral - almost all its aircraft are leased. Oh, and the lease payments must still continue even though the fleet is not flying.

And they want a loan of $1,400 milllion, even though they have virtually zero ability to make interest payments in the foreseeable future or to may loan repayments. If approved it will become a grant, not a loan - shall we call it a zero interest non-repayable loan?

Virgin has about 10,000 employees; That $1,400 mill amounts to $140,000 per job.

Pure chutzpah.

[woodPixel]

Virgin has about 10,000 employees; That $1,400 mill amounts to $140,000 per job.

Pure chutzpah.

Dont forget the fat bonuses to all the executive.....

[Tccp123]

As predicted, Virgin Airlines has started rattling the begging bowl for a staggering $1,400 million. Must admire their chutzpah.



I read that too, and they're taking quotes out of the climate change industry playbook to support their case saying they are at a "tipping point" (and possibly even in unchartered waters)...

Is it also true that Qantas has its hand out for $4.5 billion too?

Maybe we can't afford air travel? Perhaps we could go back to coal powered steam ships... oh,oh..we knocked that on the head, didn't we?

[ian]

As predicted, Virgin Airlines has started rattling the begging bowl for a staggering $1,400 million. Must admire their chutzpah.

According to their last financial report (2019) they lost about $1,000 million in the previous two years, and had balance day "interest-bearing liabilities - bank loans and bonds - of just over $3,000 million. Because they are not trading profitably they must borrow even more just to pay the interest!

Last week they had a market capitalisation of around $600 million. With debt of $3,000 mill their debt:equity ratio is a staggering 5:1. This is well into junk bond territory. Any D:E ratio above 2:1 is usually viewed as adventurous. And the company owes another $1,700 mill to its clients for airfares paid in advance.

And the company has virtually no collateral - almost all its aircraft are leased. Oh, and the lease payments must still continue even though the fleet is not flying.

And they want a loan of $1,400 milllion, even though they have virtually zero ability to make interest payments in the foreseeable future or to may loan repayments. If approved it will become a grant, not a loan - shall we call it a zero interest non-repayable loan?

Virgin has about 10,000 employees; That $1,400 mill amounts to $140,000 per job.

Pure chutzpah.
I believe the appropriate term is "a zero interest non-recourse loan" a.k.a. a gift
But $140,000 per job is more than a bit steep.

Standard and Poors have currently rated Virgin Australia at CCC, with a 12 month outlook of CCC- .
I'm not sure how far that places the airline's borrowings into Junk bond territory.


However, I wouldn't be too unhappy if the AUS Government decided to take a controlling equity position in the company.

[FenceFurniture]

So, is it work from home, work from work, online classes, actual classes ???At Western Sydney Uni it seems to definitely be wfh - the campus was closed yesterday, but the eLearning crowd have been wfh for a week and a half. Not sure about Macquarie Uni, but I think it's the same. Lola is wfh for both Unis, and for one of them (Mac) that means teaching face to face screen to screen. The other job is online content development anyway, so wfh hardly matters. They have lots of Zoom meetings.

[ian]

A message at 11am Sunday was what prompted me to post :lockd: on Sunday. We had to fill in a risk assessment for working from home and fill in a capability inventory. Monday we were told, if possible to work from home. News last night basically confirmed it - even the Police Commissioner Referred to it as a lock down this afternoon.

However an email this afternoon has me wondering. Summarised as follows: schools, TAFE and Unis are considered to be essential services therefore they are to stay open. All the new rules eg. 2 persons max etc don’t apply. Basically the only one mentioned was the 1.5m rule.
So, is it work from home, work from work, online classes, actual classes ???
Hopefully someone will clarify this tomorrow.
I don't really know, but at my son's school (admittedly the school is in Alberta) -- it's teachers work from their classrooms via video link while the kids have been told to stay at home.


hopefully something sensible will be sorted.

[Lappa]

They ”want” us the use Micro$aft Teams :(
The problem is we all have desk top PCs without cameras and microphones. All ordered but long delay on supply due to demand.

[ian]

They ”want” us the use Micro$aft Teams :(
I thought that your classes were >50% hands on learning.

I can't see how MS Teams (which is designed for on-line SOFTWARE collaboration) would be at all suitable.

[Tccp123]

They ”want” us the use Micro$aft Teams :(

Sounds like that's not your preference. What would you favour?

[Lappa]

Thats true but how can you do it with a min 1.5m distance? We are looking at covering some Theory heavy units online at this point in time until they decide about small prac. groups

[FenceFurniture]

Just now in the news:
A plane from Sydney to Adelaide has been turned back in mid-air after a cluster of coronavirus cases among Qantas baggage handlers prompted health officials to recommend travellers wipe down their bags and suitcases.

Eh? W.T.F. is the matter with the airport authorities? I would have thought that they would have been spray (or some method) disinfecting ALL luggage bloody weeks ago! Relying on customers to wipe them down indeed.

That appears to be a domestic flight but was/is it the same for international flights? :doh:

[ian]

Thats true but how can you do it with a min 1.5m distance? We are looking at covering some Theory heavy units online at this point in time until they decide about small prac. groups
Small prac. groups would sort of work.
Split your classes into two or three so each kid gets their own piece of kit to work on. i.e. no sharing.

Issue will be teacher burn out -- you can't trust the kids to properly disinfect the prac. kit so it would double your work load.


Here in Alberta, there is no face-to-face school till at least September -- but half of June and all of July and August are scheduled holidays anyway.
School was "suspended" 2-1/2 weeks ago, so by mid June, the kids will have been studying at home for approximately 3 months.
Importantly, the uni entrance exams -- called Diplomas -- have been cancelled and will now be based on the school assessment

[Tccp123]

Thats true but how can you do it with a min 1.5m distance? We are looking at covering some Theory heavy units online at this point in time until they decide about small prac. groups

Could you not record classes on video (even if you don't have a 'real' camera phones do a pretty good job these days) and put them up on Youtube? That way you could demonstrate the use of the devices/machines you instruct in. Send the links to your students and then they can start/pause/stop them to their hearts' content. At regular intervals have "Teams" sessions for students to ask questions.

[Lappa]

Sounds like that's not your preference. What would you favour?
talking to students shows, for inline video, they are more experienced with FaceTime and Skye. We will be sending out a questionnaire re capability and preferences this week. Some students do not have access the computers at home so we are hoping employers will assist if they are still open. We may end up using a number of different programs depending on response.

[Tccp123]

talking to students shows, for inline video, they are more experienced with FaceTime and Skye. We will be sending out a questionnaire re capability and preferences this week. Some students do not have access the computers at home so we are hoping employers will assist if they are still open. We may end up using a number of different programs depending on response.

Yes I can understand the difficulty in getting the students to accept a new way of doing things but as someone who went back to work after an 18 month 'holiday' and finding that the whole "team collaboration" landscape had changed I can assure you that you adapt quickly. You're doing the same thing, just in a different way. But good luck, it has to be a better solution for you. I can't imagine walking into a classroom full of students every day in the current situation.

[Lappa]

Could you not record classes on video (even if you don't have a 'real' camera phones do a pretty good job these days) and put them up on Youtube? That way you could demonstrate the use of the devices/machines you instruct in. Send the links to your students and then they can start/pause/stop them to their hearts' content. At regular intervals have "Teams" sessions for students to ask questions.
Thats the plan. We already teach self paced so it’s not a concept the students are alien with. Phones, emails etc are open all day. It’s just setting up for demos online rather than face to face and the short amount of time we have to set it up but I still have a job and the students will still get taught so that great.

[FenceFurniture]

I know nothing about MS Teams or its capabilities, and only a little more about Zoom (used it twice), but FWIW in Zoom the host can share what's on their screen even to the extent that the others can see the mouse cursor moving around on screen. Maybe Teams does that sort of thing too. The host can also give over hosting to someone else so they can share their screen.

[Lappa]

I know nothing about MS Teams or its capabilities, and only a little more about Zoom (used it twice), but FWIW in Zoom the host can share what's on their screen even to the extent that the others can see the mouse cursor moving around on screen. Maybe Teams does that sort of thing too. The host can also give over hosting to someone else so they can share their screen.

Sounds very similar to Zoom FF. It will be fun learning something new, it’s just the time frame.

[FenceFurniture]

Sounds very similar to Zoom FF. It will be fun learning something new, it’s just the time frame.Yeah, well everyone (management, teachers, students) has to be patient about that sort of thing. The ENTIRE country - to a person - is on a learning curve with all sorts of twists and turns. The curve is steep and long, and with many branches. There'll be mistakes, hiccups and frustrations. Maybe even deferrals. Lola just deferred her own studies at Sturt until next term because there is just too much going on (also does random work for Sydney Uni and Laureate). Apart from anything else she got flooded out on Feb 9th in the big wet weekend, and had to move out instantly. From nothing unusual going on to moved out completely within 72 hours. AND she was working every day in Sydney at the time. The carpet cleaning guy and I took out 350 litres of water from a room smaller than 3x3m.

[Bushmiller]

Sounds very similar to Zoom FF. It will be fun learning something new, it’s just the time frame.

I heard something on the radio (RN) about a conferencing type programme. It may have been zoom, but whatever it was it could host up to 40 people at once and was really only limited by the speed/capacity of your operating system, which for some of us could be an issue.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

As predicted, Virgin Airlines has started rattling the begging bowl for a staggering $1,400 million. Must admire their chutzpah.

According to their last financial report (2019) they lost about $1,000 million in the previous two years, and had balance day "interest-bearing liabilities - bank loans and bonds - of just over $3,000 million. Because they are not trading profitably they must borrow even more just to pay the interest!

Last week they had a market capitalisation of around $600 million. With debt of $3,000 mill their debt:equity ratio is a staggering 5:1. This is well into junk bond territory. Any D:E ratio above 2:1 is usually viewed as adventurous. And the company owes another $1,700 mill to its clients for airfares paid in advance.

And the company has virtually no collateral - almost all its aircraft are leased. Oh, and the lease payments must still continue even though the fleet is not flying.

And they want a loan of $1,400 milllion, even though they have virtually zero ability to make interest payments in the foreseeable future or to may loan repayments. If approved it will become a grant, not a loan - shall we call it a zero interest non-repayable loan?

Virgin has about 10,000 employees; That $1,400 mill amounts to $140,000 per job.

Pure chutzpah.

Graeme

Just on the subject of chutzpah may I bring in a small degree of humour and relate a story? It goes like this.

A Jewish gentleman is having an appointment with his divorce lawyer and the conversation goes along these lines:

Lawyer: How can I help you?

Gentleman: I wish to divorce my wife.

Lawyer: OK. What would be the grounds for the divorce?

Gentleman: It's because of a chutzpah!

Lawyer: OK. Leave it with me.

They make a time for a follow up appointment and the Jewish gentleman takes his leave. The lawyer immediately rushes into his secretary and asks her what the hell a chutzpah is. She doesn't know, but promises to find out. When she comes back to him she triumphantly declares it is yiddish for an insult. At the next appointment the conversation goes like this.

Lawyer: Welcome back. Now I understand that you would like me to progress your divorce because your wife has insulted you.

Gentleman: No. no, no, no, you don't understand.

Lawyer: I'm sorry?

Gentleman: Let me explain. If you come home unexpectedly and find your wife engaged in a sexual act with another man that is an insult. If your wife continues with the activity and calls out "Stick around, you might learn something!" THAT'S a chutzpah!

Is the Virgin airline trying it on?

Regards
Paul

Edit: Is the Virgin Airline requesting an immaculate concept? :rolleyes:

[doug3030]

So, its April Fools Day in two hours, what are you guys going to do to top what has happened every other day?

This I've gotta see.

[woodhutt]

Interesting report from the UK yesterday about two unrelated cases of murder in family homes, The police say they are not looking for anyone else in connection with either case. Seems like lock-down is finding the cracks in relationships. I suspect the suicide rate will also climb but have not seen any stats on that yet. Also, I don't like the way SWMBO looks at me while she's using the breadknife.:oo: Pete

[riverbuilder]

Yeah, well everyone (management, teachers, students) has to be patient about that sort of thing. The ENTIRE country - to a person - is on a learning curve with all sorts of twists and turns. The curve is steep and long, and with many branches. There'll be mistakes, hiccups and frustrations. Maybe even deferrals. Lola just deferred her own studies at Sturt until next term because there is just too much going on (also does random work for Sydney Uni and Laureate). Apart from anything else she got flooded out on Feb 9th in the big wet weekend, and had to move out instantly. From nothing unusual going on to moved out completely within 72 hours. AND she was working every day in Sydney at the time. The carpet cleaning guy and I took out 350 litres of water from a room smaller than 3x3m.

Im still waiting for the power to be fully restored from that same storm. Only a 20 amp total supply since they restored it 23 DAYS after the event. Haven’t been able to use any big machines since then, been very frustrating.

[FenceFurniture]

There'll be a lot of strange tales come out of this situation, but how about two people locked down in a 29m² apartment in Toronto (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/tiny-apartment-life-during-the-coronavirus-lockdown/12084538). (that's 2x my shed)

[Bushmiller]

I had to reassure SWMBO that lockdown was nothing to do with BDSM.

Regards
Paul

[Tccp123]

I had to reassure SWMBO that lockdown was nothing to do with BDSM.

Regards
Paul

Opportunity lost! :)

[Bushmiller]

As a group we have been extremely critical of the reluctance to act. Should Australia begin to be proactive? For example there is now some controversy over the public/private hospital systems particularly following the cancellation of elective surgery. I noticed in the following report that a field hospital has been built in Central Park. Now I am not suggesting for one moment that the Australian situation is anywhere near that of New York, but I would expect that such arrangements should be ready to go at the click of fingers if it became necessary.

Coronavirus death toll in US passes China, but Beijing is missing figures (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/04/01/coronavirus-usa-china/)

The same report mentions that China has conceded asymptomatic patients were not previously included in their stats. My take on that is it is a face saver to enable them to "up" the numbers without admitting it wasn't the full truth. If my assumption is correct it would then lead on to a situation there that is much less in control than the Chinese have been saying and they are most concerned tending towards edgy.

Regards
Paul

[Tccp123]

I was just reading about the good fortune of Queensland public servants who are apparently due for a 2.5% pay rise and a cash bonus of $1,250, lucky them. This is despite the current Covid-19 crisis. Apparently there are 224,000 of the little buggars, of whom “More than two-thirds of Queensland public sector FTE (67.29 per cent) are women”. In an apparent demonstration of co-operation they are participating in an "all-staff" ballot that opened last week to approve the rise. I wonder if it will get over the line?

And why have I not noticed any protests about the obvious gender imbalance?

[FenceFurniture]

I wouldn't trust any of the Chinese figures at all, at any stage (past, now, future). Like Russia, Iran, DPRK and any similar states, they think they have a point to prove.

[doug3030]

And why have I not noticed any protests about the obvious gender imbalance?

Good question! I am wondering why the feminists aren't up in arms about so many women being equal with men in low-paid jobs instead of being equal with the men in higher paid jobs.

[FenceFurniture]

And why have I not noticed any protests about the obvious gender imbalance?Best alert Bettina Arndt.

[woodPixel]

The same report mentions that China has conceded asymptomatic patients were not previously included in their stats. My take on that is it is a face saver to enable them to "up" the numbers without admitting it wasn't the full truth. If my assumption is correct it would then lead on to a situation there that is much less in control than the Chinese have been saying and they are most concerned tending towards edgy.


If you want to see some clanger examples of Chinese hypersensitivity and edginess, check out the links below.

The responses by the "50 Cent Army" are unhinged. The delusion, paranoia and reality distortion is impressive. Even more impressive is the mental gymnastics employed to "explain" an issue, and worse.... the stunning revisionism, complete reversals of opinion (followed by absolute denial it was said in the first place) and historical recasting/denial.

At first I was convinced it was satire. Some form of highly advanced sarcasm that I didn't "get".... but no, its real. These are real people making real responses.


Sino: News, Information, Discussion on all things China and Chinese Related (https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/) -- This one really takes the cake. Its so blatant that I really did this it was like "The Onion". Its not. They are serious.
Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) (https://www.reddit.com/r/coronavirus/) -- The "Official" CV sub. They are super-hypersensitive to comments/content seen as (in ANY way) anti-China. Its blatant.
r/中国 (https://www.reddit.com/r/China/) -- Not so bad, but the trolls (called, interestingly, Wu Mao) infect here too.


Its amazing how bad the propaganda is. All governments employ it and some people even eat it up, but I'm really amazed at the intensity of Chinese patriotism. The hypers of the USA are bad, but the WuMao are... extraordinary. They utterly believe it.


We need to be vigilant of what is considered to be The Truth. Our own governments are hard into spin control and message manipulation. Thankfully, we are also completely aware of their incompetence! :)

[FenceFurniture]

We need to be vigilant of what is considered to be The Truth. Our own governments are hard into spin control and message manipulation. Thankfully, we are also completely aware of their incompetence! :)We are lucky to have a free press. In Australia, as much as it might grate some thread participants, we are even luckier to have the ABC. I would not like to be only at the mercy of Murdoch, 7, 9 for news, but they do have some very good journos.

Watched this week's Four Corners last night on the unfolding of the crisis. Somewhat sobering.

[woodPixel]

This site shows some interesting data!

NextStrain.org (https://nextstrain.org/ncov)

e.g.



470770

Genomic epidemiology of novel coronavirus

470773

edit - visually it obvious the USA is about to be whacked by several mutations, all simultaneously.

VERY interesting stuff!!!!!

[GraemeCook]

At Western Sydney Uni it seems to definitely be wfh - the campus was closed yesterday, but the eLearning crowd have been wfh for a week and a half. Not sure about Macquarie Uni, but I think it's the same. Lola is wfh for both Unis, and for one of them (Mac) that means teaching face to face screen to screen. The other job is online content development anyway, so wfh hardly matters. They have lots of Zoom meetings.

UTas has gone largely online from start of semester. All lectures have been videoed for years, so technology in place.

Tutorials also online via skype, or similar.

Lab and practical classes "where essential" still continuing with smaller groups, enhanced hygeine and social distancing "wherever practical".

Online learning extends to a few thousand continuing students still in China - went home for Christmas holidays and became trapped.

[FenceFurniture]

Online learning extends to a few thousand continuing students still in China - went home for Christmas holidays and became trapped.I wonder if their parents still think they are getting their money's worth?

[Tccp123]

We continue to be bombarded by these big numbers. In the news this morning I learned that 240,000 are probably going to die of Coronavirus in the US alone (though that number was reported by the ABC so you'd have to take it with a grain of salt). That sounds pretty scary till you do a little digging and find that about twice that many will die from smoking related illnesses in the same period. In fact 240,000 is less than the number of men alone that will die from smoking related diseases. When you factor in the old age and likelihood of other existing conditions in the victims of CV then the number looks a lot less threatening...

[GraemeCook]

.....
However, I wouldn't be too unhappy if the AUS Government decided to take a controlling equity position in the company.

Its present market capitalisation is around $600 mill and the government injects $1,400 million .... Government would then own around 70% of equity. That is very close to nationalisation of the business.

But the vast majority of existing shares are owned by airline companies that, in turn, are owned by their governments. Virgin Airlines is already effectively government owned. Can you nationalise a government owned entity?

Why should the Australian taxpayer subsidise the investments of the governments in Abu Dhabi, Singapore and China?

[woodPixel]

We continue to be bombarded by these big numbers. In the news this morning I learned that 240,000 are probably going to die of Coronavirus in the US alone (though that number was reported by the ABC so you'd have to take it with a grain of salt). That sounds pretty scary till you do a little digging and find that about twice that many will die from smoking related illnesses in the same period. In fact 240,000 is less than the number of men alone that will die from smoking related diseases. When you factor in the old age and likelihood of other existing conditions in the victims of CV then the number looks a lot less threatening...

Id normally disagree with you... but....

I had a bit of a tongue-in-cheek maths session with SWMBO last night. 7.5 billion people, all living to 100 years old, still means 205k die each day.

One of my "favourite" statistics is that 30k children die each day of starvation... yet we dont do anything about that.

So one has to wonder, how many people are SHOT DEAD in the USA each day compared to CV.

The huge initial number, 7.5B, sure makes all the other numbers look very big too.

[woodPixel]

Its present market capitalisation is around $600 mill and the government injects $1,400 million .... Government would then own around 70% of equity. That is very close to nationalisation of the business.

But the vast majority of existing shares are owned by airline companies that, in turn, are owned by their governments. Virgin Airlines is already effectively government owned. Can you nationalise a government owned entity?

Why should the Australian taxpayer subsidise the investments of the governments in Abu Dhabi, Singapore and China?


It would be cheaper to pay every employee $50k to go home for a year, pay the $600M to own everything.... wait a year and presto, fire it back up... 100% ours.

Much cheaper.

Bugger the foreign owners. If they want their asset to survive, they bail it in. But, they dont.

Priviatise the profits, socialise the losses.

[ian]

As a group we have been extremely critical of the reluctance to act. Should Australia begin to be proactive?
For example there is now some controversy over the public/private hospital systems particularly following the cancellation of elective surgery. I noticed in the following report that a field hospital has been built in Central Park. Now I am not suggesting for one moment that the Australian situation is anywhere near that of New York, but I would expect that such arrangements should be ready to go at the click of fingers if it became necessary.
Paul, I believe that the AUS Government has already "taken over" the private hospital system -- increasing the ICU bed supply by around 50%

posted in the thread about elective surgery being cancelled

Greg Hunt announces private hospital partnership to fight coronavirus - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-31/greg-hunt-announces-private-hospital-partnership/12106678)
Private Hospitals to stay open providing a 50% boost to available ICU beds.
It think this story was posted on Monday March 30, bit it's a bit hard for me in Canada to tell what the actual date was.

I suppose this would count as innovation

[Bushmiller]

Id normally disagree with you... but....

I had a bit of a tongue-in-cheek maths session with SWMBO last night. 7.5 billion people, all living to 100 years old, still means 205k die each day.

One of my "favourite" statistics is that 30k children die each day of starvation... yet we dont do anything about that.

So one has to wonder, how many people are SHOT DEAD in the USA each day compared to CV.

The huge initial number, 7.5B, sure makes all the other numbers look very big too.

Evan

In some ways I see a parallel with climate change in the way numbers are tossed around. The point that appears to be missed is not that the numbers are similar but that they are in addition to. We have not exclusively substituted the usual number of deaths for death by CV-19. We have multiplied them and more worrying is that unchecked they will accelerate exponentially.

Whilst we talk of world wide deaths we are all here on the Forum very much planted in the developed world. It is the developed world that is afraid, challenged and panicked into buying up toilet rolls. The emerging world has little in the way of toilet rolls, sanitary napkins etc and is primarily focused on existing from day to day.

It is the fear of what could happen more than what is happening.

Just on the subject of statistics I don't fully understand how isolation is already having an effect on figures. Surely that cannot happen for about two weeks as the gestation period (if that is the correct term) of the virus is up to two weeks it is thought. Again, I should mention that details are still uncertain. Almost nothing is proven.

One further troubling issue is the potential for the virus to mutate. It did that to permit the jump from animals to humans and I think it may already have had a few more mutations: I will need the more knowledgeable among you to either bck that up or dispute it.

One development for me is that I can see I will now have to reluctantly embrace paywave to minimise hard surface contact. Until this point I have inserted my credit/debit card in the true Luddite tradition: That is if a true Luddite can have a credit card. :(

Regards
Paul

PS: A few years ago on a quiet March dogwatch we looked up shooting deaths in the US: Yeah, just for something to do. That year (say three, maybe four years ago) there had been nearly 2500 in the first quarter. But they are not concerned. Rationing of ammo continues!

[Tccp123]

In some ways I see a parallel with climate change in the way numbers are tossed around. It is the fear of what could happen more than what is happening.



Thank you! Two pearls of wisdom in the one post!

[poundy]

We continue to be bombarded by these big numbers. In the news this morning I learned that 240,000 are probably going to die of Coronavirus in the US alone (though that number was reported by the ABC so you'd have to take it with a grain of salt). That sounds pretty scary till you do a little digging and find that about twice that many will die from smoking related illnesses in the same period. In fact 240,000 is less than the number of men alone that will die from smoking related diseases. When you factor in the old age and likelihood of other existing conditions in the victims of CV then the number looks a lot less threatening...
You keep saying things like this as though that's actually relevant. What is relevant is that the number of deaths from COVID-19 is going to overwhelm whatever resources the medicos have. This is NEW and UNPLANNED; you could argue that all the other deaths are known (I'd never say "planned") but the expected mortality rate in a population body is reasonably static. But this is a spike of proportions unseen. That's all that is important.

[Tccp123]

You keep saying things like this as though that's actually relevant. What is relevant is that the number of deaths from COVID-19 is going to overwhelm whatever resources the medicos have. This is NEW and UNPLANNED; you could argue that all the other deaths are known (I'd never say "planned") but the expected mortality rate in a population body is reasonably static. But this is a spike of proportions unseen. That's all that is important.

My point is that it makes no sense bringing the whole world economy to its knees, creating an economic desert that might take decades to recover from and ruining the futures of countless numbers of young people because you are frightened by some numbers which in comparison to the total number of deaths are an insignificant fraction. We are still talking numbers well below the effects of the 'normal' flu. No one is saying it's good that people die but trying to hide that fact helps no one.

In the words of a previous poster "It is the fear of what could happen more than what is happening."

[poundy]

yes exactly, because the actions that are being taken are having a positive effect on controlling the rampant spread.

[Tccp123]

yes exactly, because the actions that are being taken are having a positive effect on controlling the rampant spread.

You can make that claim and I won't argue with you, the important fact is it's "having a positive effect on controlling the rampant spread"

[poundy]

I'm not scared by the numbers. It's not the numbers that worry me, but the actual people on the end of those numbers. Hopefully I will be lucky enough that I don't lose a loved one because someone spread it around in that community. I have a mother in her 80's with a breathing difficulty and so is in the very high risk category, and I'd hate to think that actions I did or didn't do led to an impact on someone else's parents

[Tccp123]

I'm not scared by the numbers. It's not the numbers that worry me, but the actual people on the end of those numbers. Hopefully I will be lucky enough that I don't lose a loved one because someone spread it around in that community. I have a mother in her 80's with a breathing difficulty and so is in the very high risk category, and I'd hate to think that actions I did or didn't do led to an impact on someone else's parents

That's a very valid concern. I can't for the life of me understand why we're not isolating all the people at risk. Give them all the five star treatment. Surely the cost, both in terms of $$$ and lives lost, would be far cheaper than this shotgun approach we have at the moment.

[GraemeCook]

...
So one has to wonder, how many people are SHOT DEAD in the USA each day compared to CV.....
.


The latest gun related death rates for the USA that I could find were for 2017. Presumably the figure is rising each year?
"...There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017 (in the USA)..."
[Source: New York Times, 18 December 2018.]

Total coronavirus cases in the world is 858,892 and the number of deaths is 42,158.
[Source: Coronavirus Update (Live): 858,892 Cases and 42,158 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer (http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) visitted 1-4-20 at 1425 AEST.]

Its official, coronavirus is now more deadly than the NRA.

[BobL]

That's a very valid concern. I can't for the life of me understand why we're not isolating all the people at risk. Give them all the five star treatment. Surely the cost, both in terms of $$$ and lives lost, would be far cheaper than this shotgun approach we have at the moment.

I agree that quarantining could be much tighter but it's also not without problems.

Quarantining a healthy younger self sufficient person is easy, but children, frail seniors, disabled people, and even some "blokes", need help and they can't just be put in a hotel room and not allow anyone to attend to their needs. Apart from kids, the others are the most likely to get infected and need more attention.

The number of comings and goings required by a disabled person are going to break quarantine anyway and given that some need special equipment they might as well be quarantined to at home.

The next thing is numbers, quarantining works when numbers are low relative to capacity to quarantine. The Chinese were able to cope with large numbers by rapidly building secure hospitals and also able to employ an army of helpers to quarantine their cases. They also not worried about welding apartment doors shut. The Italians/Spaniards/Americans have had such a rapid rise of cases they were simply not able to do this so their "home" quarantining leaks badly - as does ours. The Taiwanese and Singaporeans had considerable testing/tracking and fully supported quarantine systems already in place following SARs and MERS incidents.

[doug3030]

"...There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017 (in the USA)..."


Total coronavirus cases in the world is 858,892 and the number of deaths is 42,158.


Its official, coronavirus is now more deadly than the NRA.

Not quite, you are comparing gun deaths in the USA to Covid19 deaths in the world.

I thought I should make that clear in case the NRA see it and try to catch up.

[Bushmiller]

Thank you! Two pearls of wisdom in the one post!

Tccp

I am flattered by such an accolade, but the two points taken in isolation are misleading and could be viewed as "cherry picked."

The intent of my comment was that the usual number of deaths are still happening. The deaths attributed to Covid-19 are in addition: If that were not the case we would not be worried about the hospital resources being overloaded in the way they have in Italy to quote one and in New York for another. If you believe scaremongering is afoot look at the field hospital being built in Central Park.

Central Park will be the site of a new hospital for coronavirus patients - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/central-park-site-hospital-coronavirus-patients/story?id=69893623)

No government does this unless it absolutely has to.

Regards
Paul

[Tccp123]

"...There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017 (in the USA)..."




Another good example of how seductive the numbers can be. 39,773 sounds like a very big number to me (as I think it would to mose Australians) but as you can see it's not when compared to other causes of death.

It's a bit like when I read that the police in 2016 shot dead 30 black people in Detroit alone. I think most people would be shocked by that.

But then you could tell them that 3,000 black people were shot by other black people in Detroit during the same period. That's even more shocking.

So then when you say that over 500,000 people died of smoking related diseases in the US during the same period the other two numbers lose their impact.

My point is the numbers mean nothing unless you put them into context.

[doug3030]

No government does this unless it absolutely has to.

That depends on whether you believe conspiracy theories and fake news or not.

[ian]

That's a very valid concern. I can't for the life of me understand why we're not isolating all the people at risk. Give them all the five star treatment. Surely the cost, both in terms of $$$ and lives lost, would be far cheaper than this shotgun approach we have at the moment.
Well we "could" isolate everyone at risk.
But then we would have the situation that WA is approaching.
see Coronavirus infection rates begin to fall, but 'flattening the curve' may mean WA is locked down even longer - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-wa-cases-fall-as-wa-begins-to-flatten-the-curve/12107326)

The vulnerable are protected from infection but are then "locked out" of society till a virus vaccine is available in 18 months (optimistic) to 5 years time.
To be effective, the Covid-19 virus would need to be totally eradicated in the general community and all potential sources of infection eliminated till a suitable vaccine becomes widely available.

In post #935, BobL posted this youtube link

https://youtu.be/gxAaO2rsdIs

IMO, the 20 or so minutes it takes to watch are well worth it.
It's a good explanation of how a virus spreads through the community and what little impact certain measures have on the speed of infection, and how other measures can have a notable effect.

At present the government's special National Coronavirus cabinet appears to have finally grasped the importance of acting quickly and decisively.

[Tccp123]

I agree that quarantining could be much tighter but it's also not without problems.

Quarantining a healthy younger self sufficient person is easy, but children, frail seniors, disabled people, and even some "blokes", need help and they can't just be put in a hotel room and not allow anyone to attend to their needs. Apart from kids, the others are the most likely to get infected and need more attention.

The number of comings and goings required by a disabled person are going to break quarantine anyway and given that some need special equipment they might as well be quarantined to at home.

The next thing is numbers, quarantining works when numbers are low relative to capacity to quarantine. The Chinese were able to cope with large numbers by rapidly building secure hospitals and also able to employ an army of helpers to quarantine their cases. They also not worried about welding apartment doors shut. The Italians/Spaniards/Americans have had such a rapid rise of cases they were simply not able to do this so their "home" quarantining leaks badly - as does ours. The Taiwanese and Singaporeans had considerable testing/tracking and fully supported quarantine systems already in place following SARs and MERS incidents.

Yes I agree on a second reading my idea hadn't been thought through. This would be a monumental task.

[ian]

The latest gun related death rates for the USA that I could find were for 2017. Presumably the figure is rising each year?
"...There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017 (in the USA)..."
[Source: New York Times, 18 December 2018.]

Total coronavirus cases in the world is 858,892 and the number of deaths is 42,158.
[Source: Coronavirus Update (Live): 858,892 Cases and 42,158 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer (http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) visitted 1-4-20 at 1425 AEST.]

Its official, coronavirus is now more deadly than the NRA.and the corona virus has only been killing people for less than 3 months.

[poundy]

But we kind of are isolating those at risk - by isolating everyone!

It really is not as simple as that. My brother lives with my mother, and is disabled, with a developmental handicap; he has to have in-home care to assist with his personal upkeep and tasks that an 80+ year old can't do. So through the door every week is a large number of different staff; they're also going out to care for others in the community as well. To isolate those people at risk you need to isolate those who support them, and their families, and their family's family, etc...

I look at this quite simply. If you aren't self isolating and conforming to social distancing and taking the precautions that the world is saying, you're just increasing the chance of someone else being affected by your (in)action.

[Bushmiller]

My point is that it makes no sense bringing the whole world economy to its knees, creating an economic desert that might take decades to recover from and ruining the futures of countless numbers of young people because you are frightened by some numbers which in comparison to the total number of deaths are an insignificant fraction. We are still talking numbers well below the effects of the 'normal' flu. No one is saying it's good that people die but trying to hide that fact helps no one.

In the words of a previous poster "It is the fear of what could happen more than what is happening."


As "the previous poster" I can see that I must choose my words more carefully as I have again conveyed my meaning poorly. The implied comment, but not stated by me, was that we can see what has happened elsewhere, and our fear is that it could happen here. Not to me of course, because I have a highly developed and very irrational belief in my own invulnerability. However there are many people in the general populace who are at risk and there are more people out there who know somebody who is at risk and they don't want to see them die prematurely.

As to the shutdown of the economy, it has not shut down completely. If we don't take these steps now we will have a China or an Italy style shutdown. We know what happens then. It is there for everybody to see. Unfortunately people are irresponsible and they do not take sufficient care when left to their own devices.

It is back to work for me tomorrow.

Regards
Paul

[GraemeCook]

and the corona virus has only been killing people for less than 3 months.


But the NRA does it every year.

[Bushmiller]

I looked into one of the links from Woodpixels post #1066

and saw these two tweets from the Trump family about fifteen minutes apart!

470774

Not exactly sympatico. :?

Regards
Paul

[doug3030]

But the NRA does it every year.

How many of the killings with firearms are actually carried out by card carrying NRA members?

[GraemeCook]

I have been watching the quick and apparently successful strategies of some countries including Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore in tackling the coronavirus. Few would argue that they have quite competent governments and excellent health care facilities. [Let's not get side-tracked on civil liberties.]

The big risk, as highlighted in the video that BobL posted, is that a country will lessen its vigilence too soon. I have seen no reports that Japan has relaxed its regime, but their new cases of coronavirus have suddenly spiked.

This is a big worry. Was the spike caused by Japan, by the virus or just a random factor? Please note data is for Tokyo, as I cannot find uptodate stuff for Japan as a whole.
470775

[ian]

But the NRA does it every year.
exactly


I think you got my basic point -- comparing gun deaths in the US to Coronavirus deaths in New York City or Northern Italy is more akin to comparing cars with oranges.

[ian]

I have been watching the quick and apparently successful strategies of some countries including Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore in tackling the coronavirus. Few would argue that they have quite competent governments and excellent health care facilities. [Let's not get side-tracked on civil liberties.]

The big risk, as highlighted in the video that BobL posted, is that a country will lessen its vigilence too soon. I have seen no reports that Japan has relaxed its regime, but their new cases of coronavirus have suddenly spiked.

This is a big worry. Was the spike caused by Japan, by the virus or just a random factor? Please note data is for Tokyo, as I cannot find uptodate stuff for Japan as a whole.
470775
































There has been speculation that the sudden spike in cases for Tokyo in particular has more to do with previous deliberate under reporting of Covid-19 cases than any other factor.
With last week's announcement by the IOC that the Games will be postponed till 2021, has now "permitted" the Japanese Government to be more open with the actual case numbers.

Best I can do is this


<tbody style="box-sizing: border-box;">
Japan
Total Cases
2,229

Total Deaths
66

recovered
424
Active Cases
1,739
Serious / critical
69
Cases / Mil
18
Deaths/ Mil
0.5
First case
14/01.2020

</tbody>

data extracted from Coronavirus Update (Live): 858,938 Cases and 42,322 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) at 0700 UTC on 1 April 2020

[FenceFurniture]

WRT somewhat pointless comparisons of C19 to flu, gunshot deaths, smoking deaths, child starvation etc:


We do at least try to achieve something about child starvation, just nowhere near enough, even though it is simpler and cheaper to fix
Smoking related illness, starvation and gunshot wounds are not super-contagious, in fact not even a little bit
Smoking related illness and death is self inflicted (albeit with gobs of marketing and denial "help" from big tobacco). As some here know, I was a smoker until 4 years ago, so I know exactly how addictive it is and difficult to give up.
A great many of the gunshot deaths in the USA are caused by poor/bad/shocking mental health of the perp, especially in mass shootings
There are only a few countries that have gun related death stats like USA, Mexico, Brazil etc. C19 is worldwide.
The world has locked down to try and limit this virulent C19 disease. If regular influenza was as contagious and deadly we'd probably have to do the same for that too.
Which of the two (C19 or regular flu) is the most deadly is hardly the point - NOBODY has any immunity to C19 (yet) except perhaps those who have recovered. Perhaps it will transpire that some people have been found to be somewhat immune, somehow.
C19 deaths are in addition to everything else. It's not like it replaces something.