Kids Behaviours, who is to blame?

[ss_11000]

"I don't really care if he can't read or write, as long as he does not walk down the street and stab someone"

i like that one

[Jedo_03]

(1) just today
10 yr old g'daughter came over - very sad and upset
seems one of her friends at school told her that her mother had punched and kicked her... always doing it, she said...
g'daughter told her mother (who is a pre-school teacher - mandatory reporter and all that...) who advised g'daughter to tell prinicipal (she went with her) on the grounds that better to stop it now rather than let it escalate further...
Right or wrong... what worries me is that my g'daughter could end up in flames by telling the principal...
(2) Personally - I suffered many beatings and thrashings as a kid... maybe worse was the psychological trauma of being reminded by my mother on an almost daily basis, that I was a bastard - in the true sense of the word...
I left home as soon as I was able to support myself at 15 (the navy)...
Worst "crime" I ever committed was riding an unreg m'bike on a public road (Yeah - a BSA bantam) - fine 10 shillings... I was 12... Never forget my mother wailing in the juvenile court corridoor how she'd "raised me on the straight and narrow all my life... etc etc..."
I never went to her funeral
No regrets
Jedo

[Burnsy]

ps. i sound like an idiot dont I

No not at all, especially if you are 15.

Funny thing, just turned on the TV, Today Tonight just ran a piece on this very thing

[bitingmidge]

"I don't really care if he can't read or write, as long as he does not walk down the street and stab someone"

And as long as he doesn't get to vote!

P

[Carry Pine]

There are a few gems written above, so I'll try not to repeat them. I work in a primary school that does have an ED unit. Despite this, there are feral kids galore and as a teacher of 35+ years I've noticed some big changes. It's no use talking about the old days and being able to belt them into shape but you do need consequences and you need to be backed up when you hand them out.
Someone said about kids being logical - they're not. They think they know how to argue but they don't. They mirror Bart Simpson and his antics and politicians who don't give a straight answer, and attempt at all times to be 'cool'.
I went to the local shopping mall after a meeting and when i was coming out of the mall at 5:45 2 of my 11 year old girls were walking in to 'hang out' for a while- no adult around. One boy who gets in heaps of trouble and was hanging out for the Touch football gala day, trashed his record when a visiting Rugby league development officer gave the class some drills. At one stage this boy was 'caught' and he didn't like it. He called out ' You can XXXXXXX my XXXXXXXXX'. The behavior is bad I know but I feel sorry for the kid that he just doesn't know how to play a game, win or lose. His philosophy is : do it and maybe you will need to say sorry afterwards.
On a more positive note: I confronted my class with the idea that our school never seems to win anything any more. I said that i don't blame the kids personally but there must be a reason. There was general consensus that teams need to focus on a particular event and train over a longer time. One kid said ' I think it's our attitude. Some kids think they know everything even though they just keep losing. Those kids need a bit of help'. And for all you teachers out there- isn't that what makes it all worthwhile? ............end of my ravings!

Carry Pine

[Wood Butcher]

I'm not really going to enter into this debate - but wait till you see a 13yr old student go after another student with a chisel in hand racing around the woodwork shop! And he wasn't just having a joke he was after blood. (He did end up suspended then expelled)

[Burnsy]

I work in a primary school that does have an ED unit. Despite this, there are feral kids galore
Carry Pine

Are the ED unit kids in their own class or are they integrated into regular classes?

[Groggy]

Seems to me that what is missing nowadays is the checking responses. As a kid, if things got a bit extreme people were able to intervene in one way or another to moderate your behaviour. It could be a copper giving you a clip over the ear, an adult with a stern word or frog-marching you home, or even your friends 'sorting you out'.

Nowadays all this is missing and, largely, anyone trying to impose discipline is viewed with suspicion or hostility.

The checking responses do not have to involve corporal punishment, but they must be effective, and supported by parents. If they are not supported by parents then perhaps alternate education should be provided, at higher cost, to allow for it.

Short story: As a teen I went to a race meet of guys who spent a fortune on their cars. A feral child was doing things near the cars that worried the owners and they asked the parents to tell him to settle down. The father said "leave him alone, he's just a kid" and took an aggressive looking stand to the guy complaining. At that point the kid yelled "yeah, leave me alone!" got up onto the bonnet of a car, then took off across the roofs of about 20 cars, yelling and stomping as he went.

The whole family got a pretty serious beating out of it - including the wife and the kid (by other mothers and kids). The guy couldn't even drive out of there. Talk about scary, an angry mob will sort out just about anyone I reckon.

[WoodGirl]

You can liken this BB to a classroom. There are boundaries/rules and people respect them ... those that don't get sent to the naughty room for a stretch or expelled. On the other hand the "new classroom" has no rules and the children behave like ferals!

[lesmeyer]

Take careful note!!
Bend the reed while it is young (bend - not break).
If a parent has not disciplined the child before the age of 3 - not much hope (I know there are exceptions), but for the most part the child needs boundaries and rules. Without this the child will not have any idea how to handle a given situation.
My sons are living proof. As they grew older - less and less discipline required.
Yes I would spank them on the backsides when required. After the age of about 6 years of age this was no longer required - just a stern warning. Today I have 2 grown up sons with impeccable manners and they respect other people and their property and they will stand for other adults on the train as an outward example of their good manners.
But then maybe my standards are too high for some of the youth of today.
I have always found that vo1 (left hand) and vol2 (right hand) of psychology is a good starting point when raising children.
Regards
Les
Ps. what happened to Burnsy at school is outrageous.

[Schtoo]

Take careful note!!
Bend the reed while it is young (bend - not break).
If a parent has not disciplined the child before the age of 3 - not much hope

I think that's it in a nutshell. No further elaboration from me.

[munruben]

The buck stops with the parents. How often do we hear that? Its the parents to blame for the behavior of their children when they become teenagers. how often do we hear that?
Well I have heard it over and over and I am happy for those of you that made your methods of bringing up your children successful but I can tell you here and now, most of the problem is in the child itself and what is in the child, you wont get out of it. OK so it worked for some, or so we think, because their children are a pillar of society. Well thats fine thinking, but how do we know if the child would not have turned out that way anyway.
We all believe we do the right thing bringing up our kids, all of us. but you can only teach them right from wrong and tell them the right things to do and teach them good moral values. BUT IF ITS THAT EASY how come two children brought up in the same home, almost the same age, going to the same schools and being taught by their parents exactly the same values, ideas and ideals, become two totally different children in their behavioral patterns. I can cite you many instances where two children brought up in this way differ so much in their way of life.
I can speak from personal experience where two boys brought up in the same home by the same parents and had exactly the same upbringing and those two boys turned out totally opposites. One had a work ethic and worked all hours he could and became successful in his life, owning his own business and settled down with a family of his own.
His brother turned to crime, drugs and was dishonest in every way. Just the opposite to his brother and ended up killing himself at 38 years of age.
I know of many families where this sort of thing has happened to their children. One child takes one direction and the other takes an opposite direction. One is good and one is bad. Surely this dispels the idea that the buck stops with the parents. Parents can only do so much.
And as for those that think our kids are perfect angels all the time, I say to you, please don't fool yourself. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones and it has worked for you. Believe me there are plenty of parents out there who believer their child is the perfect child or teenager but when those same kids are out with their friends, they take on a different personality. Most children behave in front of their parents, the way they know their parents want them to act. Its a different story when they go out the front door.

Young Stirlo said in an earlier post here that the only person to blame for his behavior is himself, and when it boils down to it, thats the cold, hard truth. We are all responsible for our own actions and must take the consequences for those actions. Its the decision of each individual within himself as to what path he or she will take. You can't blame other people, Peer pressure, what a load of crap, I had the opportunity to take drugs when I was young but nothing anyone could say or do would make me take that path, That was my decision. Others I knew chose to accept drugs and that was their decision. Nobody made them take the drug. The only person responsible for that action is the person who made the decision to take that path.
I knew boys my own age who thought it was funny to throw a stone through a shop window just for the fun of it and these were children brought up in a good home and environment. I wouldn't dream of doing that. So what causes it. I don'.t know but I do know that everyone is responsible for their own behavior in this world.
Oh yes we have bad influences on the movies. but don't think for one moment that there wasn't bad influences in my young days too. We saw movies with killings, murders and fighting in the westerns we watched, it didn't make us go out and shoot anyone, It was a movie. We had a brain, for gods sake it was a movie, a world of make believe.
Who else can we blame. We blame the movies, the government, the parents, the teachers. Whatever happened to commonsense, aren't we suppose to use that any more, don't our children know right from wrong any more. For crying out loud, The kid is being what he wants to be. The answer lies within himself. No matter what we do or say, you will never change what that individual really wants to be.

[Krazee]

It has been said already in this thread - the issue is consequences. There are two aspects today that did not exist in my younger days.

1. More parents unwilling to take the consequences of making their kids take the consequences for their actions (for whatever reason)

2. Reset buttons. A lot of kids think life is like a computer game - if I don't like the outcome just press the reset button and start again. Unfortunately a lot of people condone and/or support this approach.

[neilb]

I agree totally John. Threre are 2 things a lot of feral kids dont and WON'T believe in and thats :
1. effort
2. resonsibility (thats apparently a dirty word)

Only the kids, themselves can change their attitudes and like you said, the parents have had enough of the back-answering and smart ar**ed foul language , they should not have the extra burden of wondering what the hell their offspring is up to while out today.! Bring back some proper discipline in the court system and when a punishment has been given out, let it fit the offence and not be forgotten too quickly. (And the parents should not be the ones to bear the punishment while this government says you cant disipline kids ) I feel sorry for the dedicated teachers in the schools today, they all have a job to do and it only takes one feral kid to disrupt a whole class . There are too many "Do Gooders" and too much "Politically Correct" crap around these days for the ferals to hide behind. Thats my 2 bobs worth.
Neil.

[derekcohen]

A couple of questions for Burnsy and other teachers ...

When faced with an unruly student in your classroom, what do you do?

When students fail to show any respect for your efforts at discipline, what can you do?

Do you seek out the support of your head/principal, and if so what does this person do?

Do you feel that the teachers in your school act as a team, and will unite in mutual support to enforce "consequences of actions"?

Regards from Perth

Derek