Help troubleshoot leaking shower

[lemerv]

Hi all, having some trouble with water leaking from our shower. I'm trying to get someone in to look at it but having a bit of trouble. I called a tiler, who said to call a plumber to rule out pipe issues. The plumber said to call a moister checker to get a better diagnosis. Still trying to find a moister checker! Everyone is b busy at the moment.

In the meantime, I wanted to ask if anyone can suggest a cause for the leak just to help me work out who to actually get in to have a look.

The shower was renovated about 4 years ago (before we bought the house).Shower is on the second floor, with mixture of timber framing and brick wall under the floor. Main concern is that is impacting the timber framing in the floor. The shower has an aggressive slope inwards towards the drain, so I would think that any water managing to leak is from spray while showering, not necessarily "pooling" water? The leak is in one corner (as far as I can tell anyway).

I've got a moisture meter I use for woodworking and I've put it up against the drywall on the other side of wall from the shower (see image below) and I get fine readings (around 16-17% with meter on "drywall" mode). Not sure if that is good or it just is the wrong spot to measure.

I've tried putting a bit of silicon along the inside but that either hasn't lasted or didn't work.

Anyway, while I wait for someone to be able to come and have a look, any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Cheers



Shower area:
IMG_0452.jpeg

Corner that is leaking:
IMG_0453.jpeg

Damage to moulding and bit of mould in the carpet:
IMG_0454.jpeg

IMG_0455.jpeg

IMG_0456.jpeg

Moisture Check:
IMG_0457.jpeg

[droog]

Well can see a few issues in the picture.

With the timber profile section up against join of the glass to the wall there could well be a leak behind there and you will never know, remove the profile section and see if there is any evidence.
Next the profile section looks to sit on the tile, thats a good start but there does not appear to be any sealant, so water will be drawn into the endgrain unless it is sealed, if your leak is as per above then its irrelevant anyway.
Cannot see from the pictures but is the door jamb installed on top of the tile or recessed into the tile bed ?

The biggest issue I see is the sloped tile section at the door, assuming that the waterstop angle is installed and tanked correctly to stop water escaping the area its location being below the tile level in the rest of the room means that water build up under the tiles is above the height of the waterstop and will overflow it out to the carpet area..
A waterstop angle needs to be install at or above the tile height in the room, and tanked to prevent water escaping the room or getting to any of the timberwork.

[havabeer69]

depending on what your plastering skills are like you can try tacking a large patch of plaster off the other side of the shower wall and have a look in.

will help show you if there's any damage to the bottom plate etc. normally patching up a bit of plaster won't cost you an arm and a leg if it turns out to be nothing.



I had a similar issue in a shower and it was the water proofing that had failed, in the end it was bad enough that you could see the water dripping through with the shower spraying on the wall.

[mic-d]

Yes get rid of that architrave and look at the sealing hidden by it. Not bad idea to cut a hole on the other side and see how far it goes although make sure it is plaster and not cement sheet which might contain asbestos. It worries me that it looks like that's an original architrave and not even removed perhaps. So how could the sheeting be properly waterproof if it wasn't removed and replaced. I wonder if they've just tiled over tile and not really done a thorough job

[lemerv]

Well can see a few issues in the picture.

With the timber profile section up against join of the glass to the wall there could well be a leak behind there and you will never know, remove the profile section and see if there is any evidence.
Next the profile section looks to sit on the tile, thats a good start but there does not appear to be any sealant, so water will be drawn into the endgrain unless it is sealed, if your leak is as per above then its irrelevant anyway.
Cannot see from the pictures but is the door jamb installed on top of the tile or recessed into the tile bed ?

The biggest issue I see is the sloped tile section at the door, assuming that the waterstop angle is installed and tanked correctly to stop water escaping the area its location being below the tile level in the rest of the room means that water build up under the tiles is above the height of the waterstop and will overflow it out to the carpet area..
A waterstop angle needs to be install at or above the tile height in the room, and tanked to prevent water escaping the room or getting to any of the timberwork.

Yep good idea. I think I’ll remove the profile section to get a better look. As you can see from the pictures the bottom of the profile is indeed drawing up water and has a whole section rotted away.

The sloped tile section is an obvious problem! I never even noticed that. Since I know this place was renovated about 4 years ago I’m guessing they tiled over the old tiles or something like that? Maybe that’s why it is raised so much higher than the carpeted area?

[lemerv]

depending on what your plastering skills are like you can try tacking a large patch of plaster off the other side of the shower wall and have a look in.

will help show you if there's any damage to the bottom plate etc. normally patching up a bit of plaster won't cost you an arm and a leg if it turns out to be nothing.



I had a similar issue in a shower and it was the water proofing that had failed, in the end it was bad enough that you could see the water dripping through with the shower spraying on the wall.

Not a bad idea. I’ve got the tools to do it. Never plastered before so…

I assume if waterproofing is failing then all the tiles have to come out and waterproofing redone from scratch?

[lemerv]

Yes get rid of that architrave and look at the sealing hidden by it. Not bad idea to cut a hole on the other side and see how far it goes although make sure it is plaster and not cement sheet which might contain asbestos. It worries me that it looks like that's an original architrave and not even removed perhaps. So how could the sheeting be properly waterproof if it wasn't removed and replaced. I wonder if they've just tiled over tile and not really done a thorough job

Sorry what’s the architrave? Is that the rounded moulding?

Yes the extra height of the floor relative to the carpeted area makes me think they tiled over the original tile.

[droog]

Yep good idea. I think I’ll remove the profile section to get a better look. As you can see from the pictures the bottom of the profile is indeed drawing up water and has a whole section rotted away.

The sloped tile section is an obvious problem! I never even noticed that. Since I know this place was renovated about 4 years ago I’m guessing they tiled over the old tiles or something like that? Maybe that’s why it is raised so much higher than the carpeted area?

If they tiled over existing tiles then it would have been impossible to tank the room to the new height of the finished floor level unless they laid a new membrane over the old tiles which then also requires reinforcing fabric on the tile joins.
Start at the beginning and remove the profile, find what is there and then look to next steps. You might get lucky but I suspect there will be some surprises of what was not done correctly in the past.

[lemerv]

Thanks. What do you mean by “tanking the room”? I assume some kind of water proofing that covers the whole floor?

Ive spoken to a few tradies about fixing it and the problem seems to be an unwillingness to warrant a repair given they wouldn’t know what else has not been done correctly.

[droog]

Thanks. What do you mean by “tanking the room”? I assume some kind of water proofing that covers the whole floor?

Ive spoken to a few tradies about fixing it and the problem seems to be an unwillingness to warrant a repair given they wouldn’t know what else has not been done correctly.

Tanking is where the waterproof membrane is extended up any vertical surfaces creating a tank for the water to be retained in. The vertical surfaces should include the wall, any timber that is sunk into the floor and the waterstop angle.
It is often overlooked on the door jambs and waterstop angle at doorways meaning the water under the tiles travels horizontally then spills out from the room at the doorways or rots the door jamb if it extends below the tile surface.
For the whole system to work there needs to be a puddle flange on one of the drains that includes openings to allow the sub tile water to drain.

In your pictures I cannot see any indications of waterstop angles or stepdown into the shower so from all appearances the entire room would be regarded as a wet area, requiring waterproofing.
Of course no trade would warrant a waterproofing job unless the room is stripped and they apply the full waterproof membrane to the extents required.

[lemerv]

Tanking is where the waterproof membrane is extended up any vertical surfaces creating a tank for the water to be retained in. The vertical surfaces should include the wall, any timber that is sunk into the floor and the waterstop angle.
It is often overlooked on the door jambs and waterstop angle at doorways meaning the water under the tiles travels horizontally then spills out from the room at the doorways or rots the door jamb if it extends below the tile surface.
For the whole system to work there needs to be a puddle flange on one of the drains that includes openings to allow the sub tile water to drain.

In your pictures I cannot see any indications of waterstop angles or stepdown into the shower so from all appearances the entire room would be regarded as a wet area, requiring waterproofing.
Of course no trade would warrant a waterproofing job unless the room is stripped and they apply the full waterproof membrane to the extents required.

Thanks for the info. All makes sense. Shower kind of has a step down (more like a slope down!) where the tiles start at the same level as the rest of the floor and slope quite aggressively towards the drain in the middle. Not sure if that qualifies.

Either way, I think what you say stands in that the only way to be sure is have the whole thing redone. It’s something I’m considering. Not cheap but maybe worth it in the long run

[havabeer69]

Only thing i'll say is start using what ever other bathroom you have


the kids bath etc isn't going to make things better. Nor is it just going to be "bead a silicon across the bottom" type fix especially if waters getting out and rotting timbers its something more sinister especially if it was a "reno" 4 years ago.



there is every chance that water is tracking along the joint hitting some waterproofing and the architrave is soaking it up. but its hard to tell from pictures


IMG_0453.jpeg

[lemerv]

Only thing i'll say is start using what ever other bathroom you have


the kids bath etc isn't going to make things better. Nor is it just going to be "bead a silicon across the bottom" type fix especially if waters getting out and rotting timbers its something more sinister especially if it was a "reno" 4 years ago.



there is every chance that water is tracking along the joint hitting some waterproofing and the architrave is soaking it up. but its hard to tell from pictures


IMG_0453.jpeg

That’s my guess to. Will remove the moulding and have a better look and report back

[droog]

That’s my guess to. Will remove the moulding and have a better look and report back

Even without water escaping from places above the tile level, water from the shower will make its way out to the rest of the room.
Grout is not waterproof, to contain water under the tile there needs to be a waterstop angle protrude above the tile level and the membrane needs to extend up the angle.

From the pictures I cannot see any waterstop angle visible outside the shower screen so the entire room is classed as a wet area. The door is only a couple of centimetres from the shower screen and also has a nice downhill run to get to the angle installed across the door way.
There are products and companies that add to the grout to improve the protection but it is only a stop gap approach.