Future of the Australian Electricity Market

[havabeer69]

in isolated grids.... who pays for the upkeep of the equipment?

its also well and good for small reginal towns, but throw in a small city with a couple of small commercial and industrial estates and a hospital (one of those places that really shouldn't be with out electricity) and it starts to become a bit more complex.

This they did, the rooftop has slightly over 300, 200W solar panels on it's main roof, with another 180, 200W panels on the secondary roof. Let me tell you, that is a serious bit of generating power when the sun is shining. Almost non-existent power bills for many in the village. By the way, that shed is pretty massive, but I'm sure you've figured that out.Mick.

our local pub/hotel owner chucked a bunch of panels on a number of years ago, I actually got to talk to him one day and asked about them. He said his electricity bills where around $100k a year, but the amount of panels he could get on the roof could totally offset his usage, but it was a cost of $400,000. he said it was a no brainer because in 4 years time he would basically have a zero dollar electricity bill (price rises may have ruled that out now) so it was a great investment for him. can see how he shoe horned them on to take advantage of the north facing aspect.

pub.jpg


for those in NSW google sixmaps. its a government funded map that poops all over google maps for clarity case in point the same shot but with google

pub2.jpg

radar view doesn't even show the panels yet street view does??

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[Chris Parks]

in isolated grids.... who pays for the upkeep of the equipment?

I have no idea but who pays for the mini grids already in operation in WA?

[Bushmiller]

The case for a large grid relies heavily on stability. A system with, say, fifty generators is less likely to suffer loss of power (but nowhere near impossible) than one with a small number of generators. In the case of a storm hitting the solar panels connected to a small grid you may be out of business very quickly: "One flash and you're ash!" to quote a hackneyed power station phrase.

There is an economy of scale supposedly. A stand alone solar system would be fine providing you have back up supplies in case of failure. All hospitals, for example, have a back up diesel generator as some of their equipment can't be allowed to fail.

Regards
Paul

[Chris Parks]

The case for a large grid relies heavily on stability. A system with, say, fifty generators is less likely to suffer loss of power (but nowhere near impossible) than one with a small number of generators. In the case of a storm hitting the solar panels connected to a small grid you may be out of business very quickly: "One flash and you're ash!" to quote a hackneyed power station phrase.

There is an economy of scale supposedly. A stand alone solar system would be fine providing you have back up supplies in case of failure. All hospitals, for example, have a back up diesel generator as some of their equipment can't be allowed to fail.

Regards
Paul

I can't see any future for a mini grid that relies on a single source of power generation and while it may be a monumental shift in technology and thinking I am sure it will happen. The giant solar field being proposed in the NT for energy export to Singapore must also be subject to damage caused by cyclones, lightening etc so they must have a risk strategy in place but of course the scale is far bigger.

[FenceFurniture]

All hospitals, for example, have a back up diesel generator as some of their equipment can't be allowed to fail.

That's also a long standing practice for any company with an IT room, going back to the 1970s. I forget how frequently we used to run a drill – probably every 3 months. Presumably they make more use of a UPS these days, given the widespread use of "miniature" computers, but larger rooms would still need a generator.

[woodPixel]

Whew! What a ride!

Here is something to read for those interested in how batteries might work in The Real World...

Op-Ed: California'''s batteries kept lights on during heat wave - Los Angeles Times

Additional tests lie ahead, for California and other states and nations. But after this round, California has a clear lesson for the world: Battery storage is a powerful tool for grids facing new strains from heat, cold, fire, flood or aging networks. And just as important, batteries are key to the zero-carbon future we need to avoid even greater stresses down the line.

There are plenty of clickable sub-links within that discusses subjects such as "dispatchable" capacity.

Every new large-scale solar project is now installed with batteries, making all new solar power “dispatchable,” meaning the energy can be used when it’s needed most and not just when the sun is shining

Interesting reading!

[Bushmiller]

WP

That is interesting information on California. Really I would like and need to know more detail.

"From 5:45 to 8:45 p.m. on that Monday, when the threats of mandatory blackouts were at their greatest, the state’s batteries pumped 2,000 megawatts or more continuously into the grid — a full three hours of grid-saving power. Batteries provided about 4% of supply during the peak demand, which averted rolling blackouts."


The 4% aspect seems low. The 96% of power comes from where exactly?

Regards
Paul

[havabeer69]

another question that i heard on the radio about elect grids and elect cars:

our local council in trying to get classification on their responsibilties for future public charging stations for electric cars, especially with regards to things like "how do people who only have off street parking charge their cars"

[havabeer69]

another question that i heard on the radio about elect grids and elect cars:

our local council in trying to get classification on their responsibilties for future public charging stations for electric cars, especially with regards to things like "how do people who only have off street parking charge their cars"

I really wonder how the infrastructure is going to look trying to get a lot of older places and suburbs up to meet electric car targets

[Beardy]

another question that i heard on the radio about elect grids and elect cars:

our local council in trying to get classification on their responsibilties for future public charging stations for electric cars, especially with regards to things like "how do people who only have off street parking charge their cars"

I really wonder how the infrastructure is going to look trying to get a lot of older places and suburbs up to meet electric car targets

I think this will be the dealbreaker for EV’s in their current form and capacity. The logistics and practicalities is a massive hurdle to overcome

[GraemeCook]

I think this will be the dealbreaker for EV’s in their current form and capacity. The logistics and practicalities is a massive hurdle to overcome

Not sure that it is a deal breaker, but a lot of very creative solutions will be required.

I live in a heritage suburb where you cannot scratch your bum without asking Heritage and Planning permission. About half the houses do not have any off-street parking. Council, essentially, will not allow any changes to the front facade. For example, NBN "grey boxes" had to be on the sides of houses, not the fronts.

My place has a narrow lane that I park in; it is difficult to open the car doors so I park as close to the left wall as possible to allow the drivers door to open as wide as possible. I suppose I could put a charging station on that wall, but am not sure of the likely attitude of Council and the Heritage Commission. Probably swings on how big it is, how visibly intrusive it is. And the guy on the corner has a penchant for appealing everything!

For the 50% without any possibility of off-street parking, then they will have to rely on commercial charging stations, possibly co-located with carparks - eg take your car to work and leave it on the charger at the carpark.

Presume the Council will frown on extension leads across the footpath.

[woodPixel]

here is an article today discussing exactly this: The EV '''social equity''' dilemma that may put apartment residents off electric cars - ABC News

[Chris Parks]

This is where I think small rural communities are going but not necessarily modelled on Yackandandah

How Yackandandah reached 60 per cent clean energy use, and its plans to be totally renewable - ABC News

[GraemeCook]

here is an article today discussing exactly this: The EV '''social equity''' dilemma that may put apartment residents off electric cars - ABC News

This can be a surprisingly complex issue.

An acquaintance bought an apartment off the plans in the 1980's and specified and got a three car garage and 3 phase power - he got both - the real estate market was very slow at the time and the developer needed the sale. On settlement, he immediately installed cyclone mesh walls and a mesh roller door and used the space to restore veteran cars - non commercially. Half the residents loved watching the cars evolve - he is very accomplished - while the other half hated it happening in "their" parking area. Ten years ago, he got sick of apartment living and bought a house with a bigger garage.

Another friend bought an apartment in the block next door (same developer) and it has one powerpoint to each parking spot. Every time he used a vacuum cleaner on his car the circuit breaker tripped. Investigations revealed that developer had responded to the above situation by limiting the power supply in all basement carparks on all subsequent developments to 7 amp circuits. A trickle charger works, a Miele vacuum doesn't.

Latest development; a resident in the second apartment block has bought a Tesla. Now "Sam" could politely be described as an ill mannered yob and he has alienated many of the co-residents. He is also a very vocal proponent of a "no dogs" policy in a building where dogs are nominally banned but have been accepted in practice for at least 20 years. The body corporate rules ban dogs, but the body corporate routinely adjourns discussions on dog complaints indefinitely. "Sam" is not happy at charging his Tesla at 7 amps. Apparently, there is no cheap option available and it went to the last AGM of the body corporate. The vote was 80% against rewiring and installing a fast charge station. My friend says that the vote was about manners and dogs, and had nothing to do with EV charging. "I'd like a charging station but I would not vote for Sam!"

[Bushmiller]

Building regulations do change over time for various reasons: Some are justified and some are not.

As an example we lived in a small town in the Upper Hunter valley in 1980/81. The local council (Scone) had just put in a new town water system and it was forbidden to install a rainwater tank attached to your dwelling. They wanted to get their money back. Today the attitude would be very different where people are actively encouraged to put in water tanks. In fact, in Toowoomba, 80Km from where we now live, it is compulsory for new dwellings to have a rainwater tank. I am not sure about the requirements for our little town, which is under the so-called, but woefully mis-named, Toowoomba super shire. However, as we live in an older house and also have approximately 100,000L of rain water storage I don't think they will be complaining too much.

I can see a time when all new buildings require solar on the roof and EV charging outlets irrespective of whether they are stand alone houses or appartments. As that becomes the norm existing appartments will begin to make arrangements for charging facilities or else lose their tenants to places that do have these facilities. I am not suggesting this will be immediate, but it will start as a selling point and everybody else will be obliged to follow suit or lose out.

I agree with the earlier comments that there will be some heartache along the way. Some dwellings will certainly have difficulty with the practicalities involved, but those that make the effort will be rewarded.

Regards
Paul