Kids Behaviours, who is to blame?

I have had a hell of a last few days and in addition to the fact that I need to vent I thought it might be interesting to get some opinions. As many would know I am a primary teacher. In the last two days I have been acting admin and have had the need to suspend 4 kids yesterday and 4 again today (different kids). On both days I have been kicked, hit and sworn at with language that would make most of you blush. This is in addition to other instances on the two days that have included having chairs thrown at me, attempts at desks thrown at me, water squirted in my face, spat on and having to physically restrain kids. Lets just say that today ended with the police in attendance, and that was from another student related issue that was not mentioned above:oo:.

The consensus usually is that the behaviours are generally learnt at home and many of these kids come from difficult environments. The behaviours are so ingrained that despite the kids knowing they are supported at school and that you genuinely care for them, they will turn in an instant. But realistically where does the buck stop, who can fix it?

Personally, I really feel for the kids who take on board the support they get at my school and work to better themselves with so much negative distraction within the classroom. I believe that the current politically correct agender that insists that all students be allowed to attend regular schools is stealing knowledge from many kids who want to learn at school. I think that most of society is unaware of the current goings on within the school system in many low demographic areas and if they new the truth, change would be demanded.

Ahhhh, that feels better, rant over, now to go and arrange the interschool team:)

I blame my parents generation. They let us get away with too much and didn't flog us regularly enough just to stop any future, unforeseen mischief.
My 11 year old is no trouble, as his mum mostly raised him from 3-7 with me being absent for extended periods.
My 5 and 3 year olds are absolute menaces. We are trying desparately and have had some success with 5yr old, but little with bubby girl.
Actually, 11yr old just won a gold and bronze medal for interschool chess competition

I feel for you. I was a pretty bad kid for my teachers, and they were allowed use corporal punishment.
Keep up the good work,
TM

i had dusters thrown at me

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Originally Posted by Gingermick

My 11 year old is no trouble, as his mum mostly raised him from 3-7 with me being absent for extended periods.
My 5 and 3 year olds are absolute menaces. We are trying desparately and have had some success with 5yr old, but little with bubby girl.
Actually, 11yr old just won a gold and bronze medal for interschool chess competition

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Funny that you say that as I have seen that despite good intentions by many parents the kids are so far off the rails it isn't funny. I think alot of that comes from what they watch on televison, has anyone ever actually sat down and thought about what messages are being sent out to the kids by the crap they watch these days. I must say I didn't until I started teaching and I must say that it makes me cringe when I see some of what is on the Simpsons as know I will see it put in to practice the very next day by those in my class who watched it.

you dont work in an ED unit do you?:(

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Originally Posted by ss_11000

you dont work in an ED unit do you?:(

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No, a regular primary school, such is my rant, we need ed units, these kids in regular schools just disrupts others and stops them from learning. The teachers who were around before the ed units here were disbanded said that it was a much better system, but now we are all equal and inclusive:rolleyes:

My Mother gave up teaching because of the kids today.

Its a real problem, they expect you to more or less raise the children for them but also jump heavily on the teachers for applying any discipline.

Bring back the cane!

The cane although deemed barbaric by many is a far less serious consequence than hospital, jail or death, which are the only lmiits placed on modern children.

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

I have seen that despite good intentions by many parents the kids are so far off the rails it isn't funny.

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On the weekend a mate explained it all to me. It's just that kids these days are so smart, much smarter than we were, or our kids for that matter.

They understand logic and reasoning at two and three, so if they misbehave parents just explain why they should stop...... :rolleyes:

Our parents, (and we) weren't blessed with such intelligence in our offspring, with the result that a well placed thump seemed to make a point in a way that our dumb kids who weren't so advanced could understand.

They understood there was a consequence for their actions, and if they continued to do something, had to decide if it was worth paying the price.

That's all that's needed.

P
:p

There's the old adage: "spare the rod, spoil the child."

Most modern parents disagree. I s'pose they consider it "just coincidence" that they're the ones with problem kids... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

Funny that you say that as I have seen that despite good intentions by many parents the kids are so far off the rails it isn't funny.

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Isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions?:rolleyes:

I absolutely don't blame the kids. Follow their behaviour home and you'll find a pair of feral parents (or maybe one).

What chance do these children have: they're genetically tied to, and socially influenced by, out of control nutcase parents.

Kids from normal, decent families don't behave like those described by Burnsy, because we won't let them, will we? If one of my kids abused a teacher they'd return home to weeks of fire and brimstone.

Who is to blame the government that stop smacking your children:(:(. My mother would lock me and my brother in a room till our father came tell him to belt us and that is what happened took his belt off and belted us we wet our selfs waiting for the punishment. No tea off to bed an hour later our mum would bring in our tea saying don't tell your dad. If that happened today what would be the outcome.
les

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Originally Posted by Rossluck

Kids from normal, decent families don't behave like those described by Burnsy, because we won't let them, will we? If one of my kids abused a teacher they'd return home to weeks of fire and brimstone.

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I thought this was pretty standard as it was how I was raised, but it is definitely not where I am.

Some quotes from parents: "he gets board easily, you need to entertain him"
"I don't really care if he can't read or write, as long as he does not walk down the street and stab someone"

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I absolutely don't blame the kids..

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why not, the parents can only do so much and most parents are careful with their kids while they are young. most of the time, kids are either spastic:wink: or just showing off. most will know better but just want to muck up cos its fun and the other kids will think more of them the further they push the boundries. with the teachers to scared to hand out suitable punishments, the kids think they can get away with it, so the idea of doing more troublesome things evolve and things just go from there.

i blame me for my behaviour, cos i know better ( most of the time:D )so i blame kids for their behaviour. kids need to take responsibility for their actions and take the consequences. i will mostly take a consequence unless it is unfair or i am right and i can prove it ( which most of the time i can prove it...sometimes i can even prove it when i am wrong:cool: )

but having said that, things can influence the way kids act, like tv, games, and others. i cant really ellaborate on my thoughts cos half of it is probably bulldust and its to hard to put into words anyone but me would understand.

so basically, you cant IMHO just not blame the kids at all, they do have something to do with their lives and they mostly have a choice. they have a choice not to throw the chair at the teacher, they have a choice not to watch those shows, they have a choice not to hang around that gang etc

cheers

ps. i sound like an idiot dont I:doh:

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

"I don't really care if he can't read or write, as long as he does not walk down the street and stab someone"

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i like that one:cool:

(1) just today
10 yr old g'daughter came over - very sad and upset
seems one of her friends at school told her that her mother had punched and kicked her... always doing it, she said...
g'daughter told her mother (who is a pre-school teacher - mandatory reporter and all that...) who advised g'daughter to tell prinicipal (she went with her) on the grounds that better to stop it now rather than let it escalate further...
Right or wrong... what worries me is that my g'daughter could end up in flames by telling the principal...
(2) Personally - I suffered many beatings and thrashings as a kid... maybe worse was the psychological trauma of being reminded by my mother on an almost daily basis, that I was a bastard - in the true sense of the word...
I left home as soon as I was able to support myself at 15 (the navy)...
Worst "crime" I ever committed was riding an unreg m'bike on a public road (Yeah - a BSA bantam) - fine 10 shillings... I was 12... Never forget my mother wailing in the juvenile court corridoor how she'd "raised me on the straight and narrow all my life... etc etc..."
I never went to her funeral
No regrets
Jedo

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Originally Posted by ss_11000

ps. i sound like an idiot dont I:doh:

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No not at all, especially if you are 15.

Funny thing, just turned on the TV, Today Tonight just ran a piece on this very thing:2tsup:

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

"I don't really care if he can't read or write, as long as he does not walk down the street and stab someone"

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And as long as he doesn't get to vote!

P
:((

There are a few gems written above, so I'll try not to repeat them. I work in a primary school that does have an ED unit. Despite this, there are feral kids galore and as a teacher of 35+ years I've noticed some big changes. It's no use talking about the old days and being able to belt them into shape but you do need consequences and you need to be backed up when you hand them out.
Someone said about kids being logical - they're not. They think they know how to argue but they don't. They mirror Bart Simpson and his antics and politicians who don't give a straight answer, and attempt at all times to be 'cool'.
I went to the local shopping mall after a meeting and when i was coming out of the mall at 5:45 2 of my 11 year old girls were walking in to 'hang out' for a while- no adult around. One boy who gets in heaps of trouble and was hanging out for the Touch football gala day, trashed his record when a visiting Rugby league development officer gave the class some drills. At one stage this boy was 'caught' and he didn't like it. He called out ' You can XXXXXXX my XXXXXXXXX'. The behavior is bad I know but I feel sorry for the kid that he just doesn't know how to play a game, win or lose. His philosophy is : do it and maybe you will need to say sorry afterwards.
On a more positive note: I confronted my class with the idea that our school never seems to win anything any more. I said that i don't blame the kids personally but there must be a reason. There was general consensus that teams need to focus on a particular event and train over a longer time. One kid said ' I think it's our attitude. Some kids think they know everything even though they just keep losing. Those kids need a bit of help'. And for all you teachers out there- isn't that what makes it all worthwhile? ............end of my ravings!

Carry Pine

I'm not really going to enter into this debate - but wait till you see a 13yr old student go after another student with a chisel in hand racing around the woodwork shop! And he wasn't just having a joke he was after blood. (He did end up suspended then expelled)

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Originally Posted by Carry Pine

I work in a primary school that does have an ED unit. Despite this, there are feral kids galore
Carry Pine

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Are the ED unit kids in their own class or are they integrated into regular classes?

Seems to me that what is missing nowadays is the checking responses. As a kid, if things got a bit extreme people were able to intervene in one way or another to moderate your behaviour. It could be a copper giving you a clip over the ear, an adult with a stern word or frog-marching you home, or even your friends 'sorting you out'.

Nowadays all this is missing and, largely, anyone trying to impose discipline is viewed with suspicion or hostility.

The checking responses do not have to involve corporal punishment, but they must be effective, and supported by parents. If they are not supported by parents then perhaps alternate education should be provided, at higher cost, to allow for it.

Short story: As a teen I went to a race meet of guys who spent a fortune on their cars. A feral child was doing things near the cars that worried the owners and they asked the parents to tell him to settle down. The father said "leave him alone, he's just a kid" and took an aggressive looking stand to the guy complaining. At that point the kid yelled "yeah, leave me alone!" got up onto the bonnet of a car, then took off across the roofs of about 20 cars, yelling and stomping as he went.

The whole family got a pretty serious beating out of it - including the wife and the kid (by other mothers and kids). The guy couldn't even drive out of there. Talk about scary, an angry mob will sort out just about anyone I reckon.

You can liken this BB to a classroom. There are boundaries/rules and people respect them ... those that don't get sent to the naughty room for a stretch or expelled. On the other hand the "new classroom" has no rules and the children behave like ferals! :(

Take careful note!!
Bend the reed while it is young (bend - not break).
If a parent has not disciplined the child before the age of 3 - not much hope (I know there are exceptions), but for the most part the child needs boundaries and rules. Without this the child will not have any idea how to handle a given situation.
My sons are living proof. As they grew older - less and less discipline required.
Yes I would spank them on the backsides when required. After the age of about 6 years of age this was no longer required - just a stern warning. Today I have 2 grown up sons with impeccable manners and they respect other people and their property and they will stand for other adults on the train as an outward example of their good manners.
But then maybe my standards are too high for some of the youth of today.
I have always found that vo1 (left hand) and vol2 (right hand) of psychology is a good starting point when raising children.
Regards
Les
Ps. what happened to Burnsy at school is outrageous.

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Originally Posted by lesmeyer

Take careful note!!
Bend the reed while it is young (bend - not break).
If a parent has not disciplined the child before the age of 3 - not much hope

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I think that's it in a nutshell. No further elaboration from me. ;)

The buck stops with the parents. How often do we hear that? Its the parents to blame for the behavior of their children when they become teenagers. how often do we hear that?
Well I have heard it over and over and I am happy for those of you that made your methods of bringing up your children successful but I can tell you here and now, most of the problem is in the child itself and what is in the child, you wont get out of it. OK so it worked for some, or so we think, because their children are a pillar of society. Well thats fine thinking, but how do we know if the child would not have turned out that way anyway.
We all believe we do the right thing bringing up our kids, all of us. but you can only teach them right from wrong and tell them the right things to do and teach them good moral values. BUT IF ITS THAT EASY how come two children brought up in the same home, almost the same age, going to the same schools and being taught by their parents exactly the same values, ideas and ideals, become two totally different children in their behavioral patterns. I can cite you many instances where two children brought up in this way differ so much in their way of life.
I can speak from personal experience where two boys brought up in the same home by the same parents and had exactly the same upbringing and those two boys turned out totally opposites. One had a work ethic and worked all hours he could and became successful in his life, owning his own business and settled down with a family of his own.
His brother turned to crime, drugs and was dishonest in every way. Just the opposite to his brother and ended up killing himself at 38 years of age.
I know of many families where this sort of thing has happened to their children. One child takes one direction and the other takes an opposite direction. One is good and one is bad. Surely this dispels the idea that the buck stops with the parents. Parents can only do so much.
And as for those that think our kids are perfect angels all the time, I say to you, please don't fool yourself. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones and it has worked for you. Believe me there are plenty of parents out there who believer their child is the perfect child or teenager but when those same kids are out with their friends, they take on a different personality. Most children behave in front of their parents, the way they know their parents want them to act. Its a different story when they go out the front door.

Young Stirlo said in an earlier post here that the only person to blame for his behavior is himself, and when it boils down to it, thats the cold, hard truth. We are all responsible for our own actions and must take the consequences for those actions. Its the decision of each individual within himself as to what path he or she will take. You can't blame other people, Peer pressure, what a load of crap, I had the opportunity to take drugs when I was young but nothing anyone could say or do would make me take that path, That was my decision. Others I knew chose to accept drugs and that was their decision. Nobody made them take the drug. The only person responsible for that action is the person who made the decision to take that path.
I knew boys my own age who thought it was funny to throw a stone through a shop window just for the fun of it and these were children brought up in a good home and environment. I wouldn't dream of doing that. So what causes it. I don'.t know but I do know that everyone is responsible for their own behavior in this world.
Oh yes we have bad influences on the movies. but don't think for one moment that there wasn't bad influences in my young days too. We saw movies with killings, murders and fighting in the westerns we watched, it didn't make us go out and shoot anyone, It was a movie. We had a brain, for gods sake it was a movie, a world of make believe.
Who else can we blame. We blame the movies, the government, the parents, the teachers. Whatever happened to commonsense, aren't we suppose to use that any more, don't our children know right from wrong any more. For crying out loud, The kid is being what he wants to be. The answer lies within himself. No matter what we do or say, you will never change what that individual really wants to be.

It has been said already in this thread - the issue is consequences. There are two aspects today that did not exist in my younger days.

1. More parents unwilling to take the consequences of making their kids take the consequences for their actions (for whatever reason)

2. Reset buttons. A lot of kids think life is like a computer game - if I don't like the outcome just press the reset button and start again. Unfortunately a lot of people condone and/or support this approach.

I agree totally John. Threre are 2 things a lot of feral kids dont and WON'T believe in and thats :
1. effort
2. resonsibility (thats apparently a dirty word)

Only the kids, themselves can change their attitudes and like you said, the parents have had enough of the back-answering and smart ar**ed foul language , they should not have the extra burden of wondering what the hell their offspring is up to while out today.! Bring back some proper discipline in the court system and when a punishment has been given out, let it fit the offence and not be forgotten too quickly. (And the parents should not be the ones to bear the punishment while this government says you cant disipline kids ) I feel sorry for the dedicated teachers in the schools today, they all have a job to do and it only takes one feral kid to disrupt a whole class . There are too many "Do Gooders" and too much "Politically Correct" crap around these days for the ferals to hide behind. Thats my 2 bobs worth.:~
Neil.

A couple of questions for Burnsy and other teachers ...

When faced with an unruly student in your classroom, what do you do?

When students fail to show any respect for your efforts at discipline, what can you do?

Do you seek out the support of your head/principal, and if so what does this person do?

Do you feel that the teachers in your school act as a team, and will unite in mutual support to enforce "consequences of actions"?

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

I have had a hell of a last few days and in addition to the fact that I need to vent I thought it might be interesting to get some opinions. As many would know I am a primary teacher. In the last two days I have been acting admin and have had the need to suspend 4 kids yesterday and 4 again today (different kids). On both days I have been kicked, hit and sworn at with language that would make most of you blush. This is in addition to other instances on the two days that have included having chairs thrown at me, attempts at desks thrown at me, water squirted in my face, spat on and having to physically restrain kids. Lets just say that today ended with the police in attendance, and that was from another student related issue that was not mentioned above:oo:.

The consensus usually is that the behaviours are generally learnt at home and many of these kids come from difficult environments. The behaviours are so ingrained that despite the kids knowing they are supported at school and that you genuinely care for them, they will turn in an instant. But realistically where does the buck stop, who can fix it?

Personally, I really feel for the kids who take on board the support they get at my school and work to better themselves with so much negative distraction within the classroom. I believe that the current politically correct agender that insists that all students be allowed to attend regular schools is stealing knowledge from many kids who want to learn at school. I think that most of society is unaware of the current goings on within the school system in many low demographic areas and if they new the truth, change would be demanded.

Ahhhh, that feels better, rant over, now to go and arrange the interschool team:)

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

Some quotes from parents:
"he gets board easily, you need to entertain him"

"I don't really care if he can't read or write, as long as he does not walk down the street and stab someone"

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to respond to the last quote first, if the kid can't read or write he will be unemployable and will almost certainly resort to armed robbery (stabbing people) to support himself.

more generally, I find the bits I've highlighed in your first post incredulous.
In NSW, the Work Cover legislation extends to schools. This legislation imposes a requirement that the employer (Department of Education) ensure the health and safety of all employees and visitors to a work site (schools are work sites).
What I can't fathom is how the behavious you (and others) mention can be tollerated. If it happened in any other work environment the perpetrator(s) would be permanently excluded, if not locked up.

So why do schools tollerate this unacceptable behaviour?


ian

When I went to school some of the teachers should have been up on assult charges , I had one that always had a monday hangover and found a reason to cane the whole class girls included in fact they suffered more. that was age 9 my wife went via that big religious school system and still carries the scars from being taught and disiplined by untrained sisters.
I am not alone in this and I feel the knee jerk reaction was to make sure our kids never suffered as we did, however the whole thing has gone too far and today its the teachers that are in danger far more than the kids.
The teachers rights as well as there ability to controle a student have been taken away and at the same time the snivel libertarians have removed the ability of the police to deal with the problem or the law to punish offenders. Kids are smarter and understand their rights far better than I did at the same age but that is no excuse for the assults you hear about or can see on the web. they take delight in filming asults on phones then displaying it on the web.
Parents to blame easy to say but with two income families or the way the dole was for years incouraging single parents and the more the better the trad family values have become something of the past in many households and kids are bought up far differntly than I was

Who is to blame , who indeed , I'm dammed if I know

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Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

There's the old adage: "spare the rod, spoil the child."

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There is also a new adage "Spoil the child, then spare the rod"

Weve always been very clear with our boys about the boundaries of what is acceptable and not acceptable. From birth. Neither has ever been spanked or physically punished in any way. They appear to be growing up very nicely, the eldest got a "rapidly becoming the whole package" from his teacher. We will see how they go as the hormones kick in.

As to whether it is nature or nurture I truly do not know. My best mate raised a bright girl who is now a street kid by her choice. Another one a son now in Long Bay. Both these guys are straight, sensible and intelligent. I think genetics is a part of the puzzle but not all of it. I had an arab family (mum with veil and three kids) in the shop the other day and the 9yo boy was a pest. I told him to stop ordering his mother around, the look he gave me was murderous, he didnt stop. She couldnt/didnt stop him either!! Pity the female teachers stuck with that little mess of a person.

Now, why should our teachers have to put up with the kind of appalling behaviour. I wouldnt, but Im not that politically correct either. They shouldnt, they see the effects of the other 18hrs per day of the kids life so they can report more accurately. They are smart people and can look after themselves and Im sure that this behaviour is the exception to the rule.

Sebastiaan

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Originally Posted by munruben

The buck stops with the parents. How often do we hear that? Its the parents to blame for the behavior of their children when they become teenagers. how often do we hear that?
Well I have heard it over and over and I am happy for those of you that made your methods of bringing up your children successful but I can tell you here and now, most of the problem is in the child itself and what is in the child, you wont get out of it. OK so it worked for some, or so we think, because their children are a pillar of society. Well thats fine thinking, but how do we know if the child would not have turned out that way anyway.
We all believe we do the right thing bringing up our kids, all of us. but you can only teach them right from wrong and tell them the right things to do and teach them good moral values. BUT IF ITS THAT EASY how come two children brought up in the same home, almost the same age, going to the same schools and being taught by their parents exactly the same values, ideas and ideals, become two totally different children in their behavioral patterns. I can cite you many instances where two children brought up in this way differ so much in their way of life.
I can speak from personal experience where two boys brought up in the same home by the same parents and had exactly the same upbringing and those two boys turned out totally opposites. One had a work ethic and worked all hours he could and became successful in his life, owning his own business and settled down with a family of his own.
His brother turned to crime, drugs and was dishonest in every way. Just the opposite to his brother and ended up killing himself at 38 years of age.
I know of many families where this sort of thing has happened to their children. One child takes one direction and the other takes an opposite direction. One is good and one is bad. Surely this dispels the idea that the buck stops with the parents. Parents can only do so much.
And as for those that think our kids are perfect angels all the time, I say to you, please don't fool yourself. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones and it has worked for you. Believe me there are plenty of parents out there who believer their child is the perfect child or teenager but when those same kids are out with their friends, they take on a different personality. Most children behave in front of their parents, the way they know their parents want them to act. Its a different story when they go out the front door.

Young Stirlo said in an earlier post here that the only person to blame for his behavior is himself, and when it boils down to it, thats the cold, hard truth. We are all responsible for our own actions and must take the consequences for those actions. Its the decision of each individual within himself as to what path he or she will take. You can't blame other people, Peer pressure, what a load of crap, I had the opportunity to take drugs when I was young but nothing anyone could say or do would make me take that path, That was my decision. Others I knew chose to accept drugs and that was their decision. Nobody made them take the drug. The only person responsible for that action is the person who made the decision to take that path.
I knew boys my own age who thought it was funny to throw a stone through a shop window just for the fun of it and these were children brought up in a good home and environment. I wouldn't dream of doing that. So what causes it. I don'.t know but I do know that everyone is responsible for their own behavior in this world.
Oh yes we have bad influences on the movies. but don't think for one moment that there wasn't bad influences in my young days too. We saw movies with killings, murders and fighting in the westerns we watched, it didn't make us go out and shoot anyone, It was a movie. We had a brain, for gods sake it was a movie, a world of make believe.
Who else can we blame. We blame the movies, the government, the parents, the teachers. Whatever happened to commonsense, aren't we suppose to use that any more, don't our children know right from wrong any more. For crying out loud, The kid is being what he wants to be. The answer lies within himself. No matter what we do or say, you will never change what that individual really wants to be.

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:brava:brava:brava John Burnsy I am not knocking you as a teacher kids get irratabel think of yourself at times in your life, fights, and kids being kids. There maybe underlying situations behind it all not anything to do with parents at all. Peer presure, sibling's or even just listening to news.

I hated one situation at school yr 6 where both a good mate and I were split up we were both reasonable students and sat with 2 of the classes worst and backward kids to help them along. These two boys went on to be owners of their own business. Yep one a concrete with a large council contract, the other left the area hi parents were already in business good pillars of the community.
The local major of the Salvo's had 3 sons one whom became such a dero druggy he near died 3 times he is now a Economics Busninesman partner in a firm. One of the other sons was a fantastic musician no idea what happend with him lost contact.

I have seen with all the areas I have lived in from the time of arrival in Australia to even today, all the educational tours I have done region, status and income have nothing to do with behavour. Kids like adults have bad days, sleepless nights, stress etc.

TV what kid watches TV these days try PC, Net, Games plus responsibilities at home the preasure gets to us all.


Just to point out even tho Australia's richest man is well supposedly well educated he has dyslexia as did his father and grandfather, he is into gambling and owns many casino's. His opposite is from a broken family a media barron both of who are in court for legal reasons BREAKING the law. A Judge tries to con his way out of of all things a speading fine this is a well educated man member of the law society.

Some whom have gone through tough times find what is regarded by many as the right path and change then there are those like the execs of HIH who are still in jail all private school boys all well educated all from good families.

Burnsye I believe your the type who is also a good teacher don't let this destroy your ideals please I have seen too many teachers have this done.

I sort of had a vague feeling this type of classroom behaviour existed, but limited to high schools, not primary level. Head in the sand I suppose, esp. with all this ADHD stuff. I feel for you Burnsy, must be taking the shine off the job you hoped to achieve.
I haven't heard of anything like this where my 2 girls are, but its in a pretty good area and seems well resourced.
As for kids knowing what is bad behaviour, surely they must...I know I did when I was a primary school kid! Throwing stones at street lights was wrong. Full stop. Only tried that once, but like a couple of posters here I copped a good flooging with a belt on bare bum whenever I transgressed the boundaries at home! Copped the 1yard ruler regularly in school, and various canes on bum and palm in high school (hand in state school, bum in private...is there something in that!?:rolleyes:) It did seem sadistic at the time, but was never an outright beating till you bleed, and didn't leave a scar, apart from mental one that still says don't push your luck! I can see that the unfettered use of corporal punishment by undisciplined teachers could escalate into abuse, and no doubt has prompted it to be banned...but at what cost?
For the teachers out there on the coal face, does much credence get put on diet as a contributing factor in bad behaviour, particularly in ADHD?

Regards,

l work in two diffrent high schools working with the kids that just can't fit in and have come across some harded teenagers ,just yesterday we were haveing a chat about school and life and stuff when the nick name the kids have in the comunity (stabbers)came out ,bloody hell what is this all about then,they tell me they all harry knifes and screwdrivers then it went on to the war they are haveing with onther school ,they weren't jocking beatings were comen between them .

Now were do we start to rebiuld the system ,a lot of kids do not respond to a standed education system they feel locked up
yelling ,hitting ,suspending sometime do more harm than good ,some kids have a non loveing lifestyle that makes you feel sad
some kids just need a roll modle a mentour if you like .Primary schools can fill this gap but saddly the boys are the ones that need help at the moment but the primary department is top heavy with females and in high schools they only get to see each student for such a short time

say 30 kids for 50min x5 how long does that give the teacher to find out where the kid is commimg from:no:

to end this on a happy note the ten young people we have in the program l have got though to two (fingers crossed)now they care what somebody thinks of them, now this didn't happen with a little sit down and talk and they saw the light it has taken near 100 hrs of working together and talking with them not at them

number one thing all people should learn is right from wrong ,a lot have no idea

SS please don't use spastic in that way l also work with people with disabilty and its a bit like the nigger word to them:).

Unconditional love is all any kid wants. End of story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ian

more generally, I find the bits I've highlighed in your first post incredulous.
In NSW, the Work Cover legislation extends to schools. This legislation imposes a requirement that the employer (Department of Education) ensure the health and safety of all employees and visitors to a work site (schools are work sites).
What I can't fathom is how the behavious you (and others) mention can be tollerated. If it happened in any other work environment the perpetrator(s) would be permanently excluded, if not locked up.

So why do schools tollerate this unacceptable behaviour?
ian

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Ian,

You been to a hospital recently, Nurses are regularly assaulted and charges are rearly press because "They are sick". The local hospital employs ARMED security guards in the A&E area, and it isn't just the patients

A real life example, at the hospital my wife works at a Dr got mad because he couldnt find the paper that was supplied by the hospital in the tea room, so he ripped a phone out of the wall and threw it across the room. The hospitals response.

Send all the nursing staff on anger management courses, not the doctors the nurses :shrug::no:

PS My wife refused to go until the Dr's were also sent, she still hasn't gone :2tsup::2tsup:

Well, I think it's a combination of lots of things, including a clear decline in standards of teaching (in my opinion). Some of the spelling and grammar mistakes I see from teacher communications is a bit of a concern (including in some posts here). I'm not having a go at the individuals, but I just expect that these things would be much better than they seem to be. But then things like spelling, grammar and times-tables just don't seem to be as important these days as they were made to seem when I was a kid.

My 8yo daughter last night had some homework to do regarding time. She had no idea that an hour has 60 minutes, or how many minutes in a quarter of an hour. The questions were along the lines of "what time will it be 1 hour after 7:15". She couldn't do it. I guess I just expected that these would be basic things taught in class. I asked her if the teacher ever checked her homework - no he doesn't.

Discipline is a word that carries connotations of authority and punishment. But there is a lot more to it. Discipline is also about paying attention in class, working hard to understand, stretching your limits. My daughter needs to be pushed, the teachers just aren't doing it. She will cruise along because she's in the middle of the class but she could be a lot better with a bit of discipline. Her personality is to be easily distracted - a bit of a dreamy kid like I was. I remember getting a clip under the ear on more than one occasion from a teacher who thought I wasn't paying attention.

For our part as parents, we are a bit slack with them, I know. It's too easy to just let them watch TV or play video games. I make them go outside and play pirates or soldiers or whatever they want. They have a ball once they get out there but making them move off the couch can be a real effort.

If I found out one of our kids was abusive or violent towards anyone at school, particularly a person in authority, it would have very grave consequences for them - they'd be deprived of their freedom or have favourite toys confiscated. The problem is that so many parents apparently don't give a stuff what their kids do.

I think it's a combination of lifestyle, exposure to images in the media, lack of discipline from parents and teachers, the acceptance of mediocre performance in school, and a shift of focus on 'what's important' in the education system. There may even be physiological affects of diet and environment that are turning kids into angry, short tempered loonies. I don't know.

Wish someone had the answer.