has OH&S gone overboard

[Burnsy]

No but i was and would have happily had a go. I believe at 52 my ability with a chainsaw is of a standard that i would be safe for a short "trial" if i didnt have boots with me. If i plan to use a chainsaw i wear long pants & boots but for a short "go' thongs wouldnt stop me. I would be more worried about stepping on something sharp than the chainsaw. I think a lot of people over estimate the danger of a chainsaw in capable hands.

Sorry to tell you this but accidents are non descriminitory when it comes to how long you are using the tool for. The odds are actually stacked against you when you are just "having a go". Your unfamiliarity with Carls setup would be no different to a new guys first day on the job. Check out how many accidents occur to people on their first day.

[BobL]

Sorry to tell you this but accidents are non descriminitory when it comes to how long you are using the tool for. The odds are actually stacked against you when you are just "having a go". Your unfamiliarity with Carls setup would be no different to a new guys first day on the job. Check out how many accidents occur to people on their first day.

Yep, if anything, your age should tell you to get your PPE on. This has been researched extensively finding experience can lead to over confidence and combined with reduced reaction times of the older man . . . . . . . bingo. Apparently this is most evident with older (experienced) blokes and motor bikes. "I had a Kwaka 900 for 10 years - I'll just fang around the block in my sons new 900 . . . . . . . "

As for I'm OK while I'm having a go
The time a 6 ft length of 2" pipe fell on my foot and turned my big toe into a plum was when I just about to put my boots on but I decided to carry the pipe from the side of the house to the shed before putting the boots on.

[quercus]

As someone who employs a bunch of people I get frustrated every day with having OHS reg's that reduce productivity. the problem is that the day you let your guard down, that's when someone will injure themselves, and I am liable.
The fact is that most regs are developed as a direct result of multiple injuries.
A previous post mentions labelling bottles, even purified water. In my business we spray pesticides. Un labelled bottles have been a leading cause of poisoning in the industry. (worse is mislabelling - putting deadly herbicides into a coke bottle to take home to kill some weeds)

So next time you see a supposedly dumb regulation, remember that it probably arose because some dumb people actually did put pesiticide in the coke bottle, disable the safety cut out, wear thongs with the chainsaw, let the 12 year old have a drive of the bobcat, etc etc.

[TomH]

This would be easy if we all were responsible for consequences of our own actions. Unfortunately, the OH&S Act & Regulations state that there is a degree of employer responsibility.

As someone who manages 20+ fitters one of my biggest concerns is that one of my team will go home to their family in a worse condition than when they arrived in the morning. If they do get severely injured, then the resulting workcover investigation is a nightmare. What makes it worse is that the laws quite clearly state that I am personally liable and could go to jail in the event of a significant breach.

So, if you work for me you will wear your PPE and conduct JSA's or risk assessments, or think before you act because my family doesn't need to wear the consequences of your foolish actions. And if you don't want to then go and work for someone who cares less about your welfare.

Failure to think before you act is the no 1 cause of accidents in our workplace, and I try to follow similar methods at home. So yes, I do wear boots in the garage and get someone to foot the ladder when I am cleaning the gutter, cause getting injured sucks....

Cheers,

Tom

[Wood Borer]

So what do others think about some short courses involving OH&S?

I think that some of them perhaps give a false sense of security to the learners.

For example, chainsawing is not just about operating the chainsaw safely. Merely walking to the log might be hazardous, lifting the cut pieces involves safe lifting techniques, snigging the log, making the cut pieces secure even if left on the ground so they don't roll etc etc etc.

The peripheral work can be just as hazardous however a novice with a certificate proving they are a competant chainsaw operator after completing a 1 day chainsaw course could be under the impression they are bullet proof.

Most of us would draw on a string of life long experiences and package these experiences as common sense and even then still come undone. What chance has the confident newly certificated novice got?

I am not knocking the courses, I think they are good but there are flaws in the system which would be great if they were addressed. I have no suggestions on how to address them.

Having said that, I am about to cut up a tree that fell down last night, it is on steep terrain and will probably have to be winched out. If you don't hear from again - ignore all my previous advice.

[DavidG]

Lets bring up some other issues.

OH&S inspectors boasting about closing industries down.

OH&S fining a family shop (Husband and wife) $1000.00 for not photocopying their accident report page but using a note book instead.

OH&S fining a chippie for not having his portable radio test and tagged.

OH&S inspectors searching for some way to fine you even for the smallest thing.

[dazzler]

Lets bring up some other issues.

OH&S inspectors boasting about closing industries down.

OH&S fining a family shop (Husband and wife) $1000.00 for not photocopying their accident report page but using a note book instead.

OH&S fining a chippie for not having his portable radio test and tagged.

OH&S inspectors searching for some way to fine you even for the smallest thing.

Hi david

the gene that makes people behave in this manner is not specific to OH&S inspectors, it mutates through society.

[Wood Borer]

You are correct David, those low life mongrels should be rubbed out (bullet between the eyes) along with their managers and the scum politicians who passed the laws to allow such nonsense.

They are there to promote and encourage OH&S not make a mockery out of it or make it a source of income for some slimy Government Dept.

This is a serious and important matter and the example of many of the inspectors makes a mockery out of OH&S.

PS It wasn't a treethat fell down, just a bough but a trailer load of firewood though.

[autogenous]

General trade apprenticeships are virtually non-existent in some sectors in some states. That used to involve some very good preventative injury training.

Tradesmen aren't tradesmen anymore. They're lawyers, accountants and contracts administrators.

With all the paperwork and litigation insurance productivity is dropping.

When you have that brick paving done in the backyard you can be assured that probably 40% goes to insurance companies and the quagmire of paperwork that developed with just carrying out that small job.

Ask a plumber how much paperwork is involved for all the maintenance jobs on residential properties? It has become mind boggling.

As soon as they said you can lose your house I made the decision that for the net wage earnings it was time to leave.

Now its a 4 hour course on why we will sue you.

I don't think safety is about safety anymore.

Safety is about finding someone to blame.

Safety is about who's going to pay.

Safety is about who to litigate.

Its about money.

[weisyboy]

well said.

if most of the oh&s rules were removed and it was simply told to emploes waht to and not to do and machinery has avisory lables.

then have been told of the dagers and told/shown the right and safe way to use/o sompthing then it should be your own bloudy fault if you get hurt.

[autogenous]

The core implementation of controls is to make things as safe as practical.

Practical varies form officer to officer.

The issue is the procedures and policies are not practical. So many Grey areas. In fact its the same with the tax, long service leave and superannuation. So many Grey areas that only those with no assets and nothing to lose can afford which isn't policed or rarely audited.

How long is a piece of string?

You want me to tender, compete and employ with that when my rates are being dictated to me and take liability for injury and structural integrity?

What when the bloke I'm competing against owns a $1000 car, rents and pisses any retrievable monies down the toilet?

Sorry I can't price a piece of string on a continuum, compete and risk losing my house and assets. It doesn't make fiscal sense.

Maybe finding good tradesmen isn't a training issue. Its a liability issue.

Family trusts, companies and the other associated costs just don't fit into my revenue scope. The costs and risks are set for the goal of bankruptcy at some stage.

With the continuum of risk and paper work comes cost which intern will manifest as inflation or implosion of a skill base prepared to take the risk of impractical safety requirements, the associated verbose procedures and controls that come with them.

You can have your platinum safety rating but how much are you prepared to pay when its too expensive to conduct business anymore and no ones prepared to pay platinum prices for houses or buildings?

I'm pro safety, don't get me wrong, put under duress by a mad boss in racing bathers and thongs at age 17 walking a wooden plank at 40 feet with a 200kilo wheelbarrow of cement in the air from scaffold to hoist and your glad to see change.

What your plumber has gone from $55 p/h to $120 p/h? If thats not a driver of inflation I don't know what is.
Any government that doesn't bring that inflation driver under control will get a genuine leather boot up the bum.

[dazzler]

Putting my serious hat on here, OH&S hasnt gone too far.

Of course there are stupid trainers, over the top inspectors, strange laws, but overall they have reduced the number of injuries and that can only be a good thing.

Most laws come in following investigations into reported accidents and where there is an identified deficiency in the system. Most people are fine. Most people have common sense, but an occasional lapse in judgement.

What many miss is the fact that ohs ensures that an employer cannot (in general) put thier employees in harms way in the pursuit of profit.

Stick to the rules and your fine. And your fellow employees also go home in one piece.

[Rodt68]

I think it is important to remember that even though there appears to be too many OH&S laws they don't even scratch the surface.

For most situations it requires an assessment of the hazards and risks with the employer deciding what is acceptable. The best employers talk all of these issues over with their employees and they come up with a solution that is acceptable to everyone.

The benefit of this process is that even if not everyone agrees with or likes the controls implemented they have been consulted and have a chance to have their say.

I have been an OH&S person for over 10 years in a wide variety of industries and I must say just about every incident that I have investigated over the years came down to basic issues such as poor planning or no process to consider what can hurt you before starting a job.

What the laws are there to do is make the bad employers have to comply with at least basic safety precautions when conducting work activities. Even with the laws I still see practices and actions that make me shudder and I always think "How can people be so stupid", but in reality they are not "stupid" they just haven't taken the time to consider all the dangers.

The old statement "We've always been done it this way and it's never hurt me yet" seems to highlight their perception that this is a guarantee that it won't in the next five minutes.

I do agree though that there are some inspectors that you wouldn't feed but I also know plenty (vast majority) who generally care about people and only do the job for one reason. Please bear in mind that they are usually the people who get to see the mess (literally) and the results of dodgy operations.

I am not an inspector and have never been one (or intend to be) but none of us would be in this field if we didn't want to make a positive difference.

Off my high horse now

Cheers

Rod

[corbs]

There is OH&S & there is OH&S, I am not allowed to change a light bulb at work. The electricians at work are not allowed to change a light bulb either (unless they have done the course). There is an application for OH&S but to the point that I have to work in the dark until someone who has done a course on how to change a light bulb (this once took three weeks and several phone calls) can come to change it... thats a bit silly for me.

Corbs

[DavidG]

What sort of light bulb. Mercury vapour?