Senseless and Stupid

[craigb]

You say living room, I say lounge room

Great minds huh?

That or the corollary

[barnsey]

Hey Dan,

Come and sit in my front yard any time and you'll get as many as you want.
If you've got behind - do it on a Friday or Saturday and you'll need a couple of colleagues with you to keep up.

OK - I live on the corner of two major roads - well major for Tweed Heads!.
Mind you I make beer money with the towies if I'm quick enough

My old man engineered me into vehicles that were older and no more than 1500cc coz he figured that to let his son drive a higher powered vehicle was asking for trouble. I had a heap of accidents - travelling to close, not paying attention to the road rather than my mates in the car, too quick on a wet road. Not one of them was at a speed in excess of 60kmh.

But I was on shanks pony till it was fixed, most times by me with him giving the directions and expertise to get it ready to send to the spray painter he knew.

That is - responsibility after the event was applied in the hope that I'd learn the concept. I have a 17 year old who's been working for 2 1/2 years who's asking for a car for Christmas :eek:

She has this notion that I've discovered a money tree while she's shopping for what seems like an endless supply of apparell that if I'd come across at that age I'd have thought it was Christmas. What she expects having $2.53 in the bank is beyond Darwins theories but that's the way it is today they keep telling me

Bullsh :mad:

We'll probably acquiesce but only because it's more pleasent when she's not here than when she is! :eek: We're trying to work out a program that ensures she contributes significantly to the cost and meets her own running costs

Kids have got to a point where gratification is something that happens immediately, video games, movies, TV, cars etc.

I say again - we are creating a monster for the future by complying with the demands and expectations of the new generation :eek: :eek:

Jamie

[TassieKiwi]

We're not alone in history......

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

So there ya go. Tearing around in chariots in thier cups, laying waste to thier togas and sandals in Athens.

[DanP]

Jamie,

It's quite simple, buy her the car. It's then hers. If she wants to be able to run it she'll have to learn to budget for it. I had to buy my own cars and I have had three Datsuns, an old Ford, an old Celica and a newish Commodore which is now oldish. I borrowed money for the last two and I'm still paying for them.

Dan

[Wood Borer]

The kids of today are the product of their parent’s generation, in this case my generation.

Whilst you may find flaws with the kids of today, it was us (most of us anyway) who brought these kids up into what they are.

I can never be sure when I criticise the younger generation whether I am being an old grumpy phart or whether I have something genuine to whinge about. I nearly always thought my parent’s generation were sad old whingers complaining about our music and energy of youth. Is this me too?

I support the younger generation, yes there are some fools like there were when I was younger but our generation has many fools also who even with the hindsight of experience still behave like rude idiots.

[BigPop]

I made all my kids (4 girls) all pay for their own cars. They were all like typical teenagers of the day and all wanted Dad to buy them one but I stuck firm and made them save and buy their own. They appreciated it more that way methinks. Also used to tell them (bluff should be the right word I s'pose) that if I ever caught them speeding I would personally issue them with a ticket and if someone told me about their bad driving beahviour I would also give them one. Plus told them all that my mates had their rego numbers and descriptions of their cars and were keeping an eye out for them.
They are all grown and mature women now and all respected the road rules and drove sensibly (as far as I know) thank heavens and it is a credit to all of them.
They proved me wrong and now I suffer for it as I have to pay bribes out to placate them now still they are bloody good kids and I wouldn't swap them for the world.

[jackiew]

I think bigPete is right, if you paid for it you look after it better.

Making kids pay for things helps them learn the difference between want and need. I've noticed that if my son wants me to pay for something and I suggest that he buys it out of HIS money not mine then 9 times out of 10 he finds he doesn't want it THAT much.

if you think your son or daughter is a good loan risk you can always lend them some of the money for a car and charge them the interest you would have got if you'd left the money in the bank. But don't be soft ... if you don't reckon they will pay you back then don't do it - let them learn the consequences of not paying a loan back the hard way.

Jackie ( who rather likes that bumper sticker which says "I'm spending my children's inheritance" ).

[jow104]

all New Cars Should Have Cruise Control Fitted By Law & Electronicly Controllable

[Honest Gaza]

Sorry Boys....I don't think there are any guarantees.

No. 1 Son got his licence in February of this year. We gave him my wife's previous car ( Hyundai Excel ) and expected him to save and pay for Registration and Insurance. Sometime around June he was caught speeding more than 30k's over the 70km speed limit. This resulted in him losing his licence until the end of January 2005. We had a heart to heart discussion on the issue ( no ranting and raving ), and I firmly believed he understood that he had stuffed up big time.

A couple of months ago my wife went out shopping for the day and got home earlier than expected. To her surprise, our Son's car was no longer sitting in the front yard. She rang him, and it seems that he had decided that he had some urgent bills to pay and took the car to the local post office. Again, I tried the Mike Brady approach ( no ranting and raving ) and expressed my disappointment. I made him aware of the insurance issues that would have arisen should he have had an accident while unlicenced and generally reiterated that I thought he was a "Bloody Idiot".

We haven't had any further problems with the Excel disappearing ( may have something to do with the fact that I sold it ).

So today No.1 Son asks me "Did you read the story in the paper this morning about the P-Plater who crashed his Dad's car ?"

I said "I hope YOU read the story....a bit close to home I think"

He said "How stupid is the father for leaving the keys there while he was away"

Now you can imagine....me and No.1 Son had further words.

My point is, I believe I have brought my Son up to know right from wrong and what is expected from him. When he has deserved it, he got a kick up the backside....so I haven't always tried the Mike Brady approach. But, there are no guarantees that we are going to be 100% successful as parents. All we can do is try our best and hope that some of it will get through.

Right now, my XR6 Turbo sits in the garage....and my keys are RIGHT WHERE I CAN SEE THEM.

[Gumby]

all New Cars Should Have Cruise Control Fitted By Law & Electronicly Controllable

So should kids..............

[bitingmidge]

I made all my kids (4 girls) all pay for their own cars. They were all like typical teenagers of the day and all wanted Dad to buy them one but I stuck firm and made them save and buy their own. ...
They are all grown and mature women now and all respected the road rules and drove sensibly (as far as I know) thank heavens and it is a credit to all of them.
... still they are bloody good kids and I wouldn't swap them for the world.

Same for me only 3 girls - their cars started as $200.00 rejects, but were worth close to $2000 by the time they hit the road with brakes overhauled, new tyres and batteries, and a bit of a body clean.

All were "forced" to enjoy the hard work as well, and as a result appreciated that they had really put together really sound vehicles for a lot less than they could have bought a car in similar mechanical condition.

While they were students they were responsible for all running costs as well, except that we paid for tyres, brakes and safety repairs to ensure that in their "brokedness" safety wasn't compromised. If the car broke, they used buses and trains till they could afford the repairs (I can only think of two instances outside of regular service intervals).

Two of them have had theirs for over five years, and still treat them with pride and respect! The other sold hers to go overseas, and lashed out on her return on a $4,000 special, but took the same approach to achieve a safe reliable vehicle (with a smallish sub woofer :eek: )

Cheers,

P

[Peter R]

Lets get something straight. There is only one person to blame for these events. The driver of the car. Society and/or his parents are not. No parent or responsible member of society would condone or encourage someone to drive at 180 km/h. On the whole I find less people speed today, including P platers, than they did when I first joined. I have to work for tickets now. Whereas i used to just stick the radar out the window and hey presto... As many tickets as I wanted.

Dan

If I may, I would disagree with you Dan, society will be at blame whilst it allows so much lattitude for kids - ie. kids devorcing parents - kids being paid to leave home - kids getting warnings for shop lifting only to return to the same store to continue where they left off, teachers not allowed to talk harshly to pupils, parents not allowed to give the kids a good wallop when needed. This, of course, allows for one thing and that is kids that know their rights "All I have ta' do is say that you hit me and you'll be in trouble". an actual statement by a 14 year old to his teacher.
When government, through the pressure of the ill-informed do-gooders, take over the roll of the family unit (and we see how good they are at that with the horendous mistakes of DOCS) society is again to blame.
Sorry Dan but that's how I see it.
Peter R.

[TSHSR]

Big Pete, I wouldnt have that job for quids, my respect goes to those who can do it, even once, let alone more.

I am 6months into the learner driver thing with my 16 yr old, it is very difficult to get the mesage of speed across "80 clicks is so slow" he says.
The best thing a corporate company I worked for some years ago did was to put us all through the advanced driver traing course for 2 days. When you cream the cones at 60 k's and think how the hell did I hit them it starts to sink in.
I reckon (for what its worth) that all learner drivers should be put through a tough defensive driver training program every 3months from the time they get their L's.

Just on the crash that started all this, I am very concerned by the role of the 33 year old in this. The paper said that the 33 yr old and his 15 yr old pregnant girlfriend. It is very hard for teenagers to repell the pressure of a much older "friend" who is egging them on, the guy was possibly a predator of sorts if he is hanging around with 15 to 18 year olds.

Prohibition of anything only creates a black market in that item, or endeavour, just look at the number of people who have lost their licences and still drive!

[DanP]

Peter,

You may state your opinioin anytime you like. As I have stated mine. We will have to agree to disagree though. I think that the biggest issue in the world today is the refusal by anyone to accept responsibility for their actions. It's why there's so many lawsuits and sadly, society, through it's courts, allows it to continue. I say, if you stuff up, wear it on the chin when you get caught, don't blame your upbringing or your horrible addiction or anyone else that really had nothing to do with it etc.

Dan

[RETIRED]

I normally don't offer an opnion as I try to be neutral BUT!!!

Over the past 35 years of having my licence I have done 4 advanced driving courses, driven rally cars, had a go at go-karts, raced speedway and driven Formula vees and a formula 5000 car.

At the outset of all driving courses the first words generally uttered by the instructor is that the person who holds the wheel is the person responsible for the vehicle. No one else.

Funny thing about cars is that unless it is a learner vehicle there is only one set of pedals and they are under the feet of the person holding the wheel.

Press the right hand one down ithe vehicle goes quicker. Push the middle one and it slows down.

So, get real people. No one forced the driver to go at 180KPH. No one forced him to take a car that he was not supposed to have. Society is not to blame for his stupidity.

Ther is only one person to hold responsible for this accident. He who held the wheel. Luckily he did not kill otherinnocent motorists.