Shellac, tell me all you know!

[jerryc]

Silent,

If have ruffled your feathers over the word "instruction" I apologise. I took the word in it's narrowest sense as personal instruction. Mea culpa. The purpose of this thread is to help Kekemo to understand a little bit about shellac and not to engage in a semantic discussion.

Kekemo,

The problem with these short bursts of communication is that often things are not fully explained. Shellac CAN give a high gloss if that is what is required. However equally it can give the low sheen you require. I repeat my original suggestion to click on search on the tool bar of this forum and go over past threads. An example of a low sheen (my kitchen cabinet door) is attached below. Apart from wax there are other methods of lowering the sheen.

[Tex B]

Sounding a bit like the Shellac Appreciation Society here. Anything it can't do? Durability/water resistance/etc?

Tex

[silentC]

Jerry, I'm devoid of feathers.

I just wanted to make sure Kekemo knew that getting a glassy finish with shellac will not be as easy as brushing on gloss polyurethane and some instruction (whether through the forum, from a book, or a finishing class) will be required, as well as a lot of practice. I know this because I have yet to attain that level myself.

But as it turns out, she doesn't want the glassy finish anyway, so it's moot.

Great stuff, shellac.

[echnidna]

Sounding a bit like the Shellac Appreciation Society here. Anything it can't do? Durability/water resistance/etc?

Tex

well you can glaze cakes & bikkies with it,
(dunno if yer use metho fer that procedure)

[jerryc]

Tex,

You've found our guilty secret. Yes I am a member of the shellac appreciation society.

Durability? Magnificent. In a previous thread I explained I had used it on a kitchen door right next to the exhaust from our dishwasher. Hot caustic steam and it lasted five years before I gave it a rub over with the magic "rubber". Good as new. That covers heat, moisture, durability I think.

Oh yes and ease of repair.

Safe with low toxicity? Used to coat pills in the pharmacutical industry.

It's an in the wood finish. Different to many on the wood finishes, it imparts a warm glow to the wood Etc etc etc.

Could bore you some more but why not get some shellac, try it and join the Society?

Yes there are other finishes and I do use them occasionally.


Jerry

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

[silentC]

It has also been used to make picture frames, small boxes and other moulded objects, records (old 78's are made from it), as a protective coating on fruit, for the manufacture of dental plates, and who knows what else.

[Sebastiaan56]

Sounding a bit like the Shellac Appreciation Society here. Anything it can't do? Durability/water resistance/etc?

Tex

Well Tex, its not the best to drink, but hey with a bit of Coke it scrubs up, better after quite a few beers..... Ive also not seen it do the washing yet, I live in hope.

In all seriousness I think its wonderful. Even a klutz like me can get a good finish. Yes, it takes practise. Ive had it on musical instruments and Neils' advice of using linseed oil to lubricate the rubber is good. It greatly increases water resistance.

Kekemo, get Neils finishing book. Essential reading, I learn more each time I reread, plenty of "ahhh........thats what he means......" moments,

Sebastiaan

[Andy Mac]

I'm a relative novice with it from a fine woodwork sense, but recently used it on a pair of tables I made from recycled rosewood (thread here somewhere), and I was really impressed. Easy to buff to good shine, after building up layers.
I have used in art school a lot, on paper and wood, and mixed things into it like pigment and natural ochre. In Printmaking it is used on collagraphs to seal before inking up, and we also use it extensively in Ceramics and Sculpture studios on plaster when sealing a mould.
Add me to the Society!

Cheers

[MacS]

Shellac, is also used to seal the glass bulb to the metal base on light bulbs.

This is not a knock, but a fact. It is not a very durable finish, that is why it is used on antiques, or on furniture that must be well cared for and not abused. It is not "normally" used on production furniture, which is a clue why it is not used for commercial furniture.

Alcohol based products like perfume will dissolve shellac, cleaners will also damage shellac. One of its main features is that its very repairable, in fact damages can be made into invisible repairs. Shellac is an evaportive coating
which means it will redissolve in alcohol, and making it possible to "knit" the damages together again using the proper circular padding technique.

[kekemo]

Yep...I'll join this society for sure....we had never used varnish...we always used wax's & polishes....so have been very used of building up the layers....time staking labourous work...this is just so darn easy compared to the techniques ...that I have used before...only ever used varnish once...that was for the spa-table because it was near water....so really looking forward to the practicle side of my learning curve...I am so impressed ....already!

Yes, I will definitely look for that book...little more information on it if you please? ....don't travel to Perth much...and even getting 800 + 1200 grit sanding disc's is not easy....Mandurah...needs a woodworking specialty store....now if Carbatec....or Woodstock...or what's their name's, need good workers....or men or women... to run or open a new super-store.....a store...I'm here...yep....I need a good job....think I could go the distance & then some more.....encourage women to join & enjoy woodwork....don't know if I could encourage men to do much of anything other than woodwork....don't think they'll need their arms twistted so much......

Loving this thread...thankyou all for you wonderful supporst....cut all the buiscuts slots today...just over 64 in base & top.....
Gluing tomorrow...
Good meeting at cancer support group today...walked in sat down and then looked at my finger-nails....oh...crap....yep need to know what cleans it up pretty good too?
sincerely thanks...KEKEMO

[jerryc]

Kekemo,

as I told you early in this thread, many people; many ways of using shellac.

On the issue of making the rubber you notice that Macs and I have different views. It's a point we have discussed and agreed to differ. Mac says his works well for him, so be it. My way was the way I was taught by "Ye Olde English Craftsman" he was old back in the fifties. Worked quite a bit for antique "restorers" and hated the "b******s" "Want the best and pay the worst". I never accept anything without question and asked him why that way of making a rubber. "Charge from the back means a natural filter, my son. And it's a fuller reservoir so yer see squeeze control of the amount dispensed is easy."

One point I didn't make clearly is my aversion to pre mixed shellac. Flakes keep almost indefinitely if well stored. I only mix enough for the job in hand, plus a bit more.

Jerry

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

[silentC]

Neil's book has a much more detailed process for making the rubber, which I follow in part to make my pads. It more or less agrees with the method posted by Jerry. He also recommends adding the polish to the top of the rubber, never to the bottom. I've found this to be good advice, because I have occasionally had undissolved material or foreign matter find it's way into my jar and it can't get on the work if the polish has to go through the rubber to get there.

I hope Neil doesn't mind if I post this little comment from his book which accompanies his instructions on making a rubber:

"There are other slightly easier, but less practical and less efficient ways of making a rubber. However we will leave them to the handful of geniuses who always think they know a better way than the time honoured way the professionals do it."

[Sebastiaan56]

Kekemo,

Link to the book here http://www.ubeaut.com.au/book.html mail order is a wonderful thing! Also, the Wild dingo is in your area, PM him he may be avble to help you,

[MacS]

As I said before, its the technique, and not in the way one makes the pad, those in the UK and in the AUS make a "rubber", we over here make a padding ball.

You, and the others here are familar with your technique of making the rubber, its no better then our way, nor worst then our way.

Iits not the rubber or the pad that makes for fine polishing, its in the tecnique of knowing how to polish.

I only sent the photo to show what the pads looks like, I am sure not many of you have ever seen a "pad" before, or I even heard of one.

Just like over here, the only polishers that use the term "rubber" are those who come over here from the UK and AUS..

[silentC]

Interesting. I've got a book here written by a fellow called Jeff Jewitt. It's called "Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing". I'm pretty sure he's an American author. He shows two techniques for applying shellac: one 'French Polishing', the other 'Padding Shellac'.

Although he avoids the term 'rubber', preferring to call it a 'pad for French Polishing' (possibly because 'rubber' has a different connotation), he describes the item as a "two-part pad made from an outer muslin cover and an absorbent inner cotton or wool core". He says that "the traditional pad for French polishing consists of wool wrapped with a linen cloth".

For padding shellac, he recommends a lint-free absorbent cloth wadded up into ball so that there are no wrinkles or seams on the bottom.

He goes on to describe the aircraft taking off and landing technique.

So I would suggest that what you describe as French Polishing in your extract above is actually what this author calls 'padding shellac', or something more akin to it.