Joist Hangers and Pryda Brackets

[journeyman Mick]

I'm pretty sure the nails in bearing on the timber would fail before the steel bracket failed...............

Yes, but would you be prepared to sign a document giving a builder the okay to go ahead and do it that way? So unless the manufacturer says it's okay (which they apparently they do now, but this wasn't always the case) then the inspector would be well within his rights to knock it back. Actually he'd be a fool not to, given that he might get sued further down the track if something goes wrong. Aaah, isn't it a wonderful world we live in now?

Mick
PS BTW I'm pretty sure the nails would fail before the bracket would too.

[OBBob]

It'd be nice if they made a blank bracket with defined number of nails allowed to be put through with a gun. But then what would the apprentice do?

If only I had one!

[Deanom]

Wow Mick, prompt reply.
Youre right, I personally wouldnt give the builder permission to drive the nail through the bracket as I can see many short comings. Some that spring to mind are:
- Poorly placed nail patterns meaning some nails really arent effective.
- Tearing the plate
- Drawing in the plate and not seating the nail head properly flush with the plate and timber
- etc.
I think anyone who drives through the plate ignoring the holes is foolish.
Cheers

[silentC]

I am a structural engineer and would approve nailing through the joist hanger provided the right no of nails with the right diameter and right driven depth was achieved

So what were you on about here

[Deanom]

I was on about provided everything was honkey dory, nails driven to correct depth, good placement, nothing damaged, I would have no reason to reject the joint.
Quite often I do inspections and find that builders make compromises. It is always too late when your on site. You have to have a good reason (with engineering judgement and possibly a calculation) to reject something. I just would not recommend builders to try and drive the nails through the plate without considering the holes, not good practice but if it can be achieved, why reject the joint.
Have you ever seen this done Silent C. I havent thats why I cant recommend it, but if it appeared reasonable, I couldnt reject it, could you?

[manoftalent]

ok this post is a tad late ...since the work has already been done .....but GMC have a new tool , at first look I thought it pretty ordinary compared to a nailgun and much slower ......however it could have saved ya arms from all that hammering .......it takes any sized nail up to around 100mm......you poke it in the magnetic business end head first ...stick the point of the nail where ya want it .....and press the trigger .....its kinda like a hammer drill...it hammers the nail in to the preset depth ....and is cordless with a backup battery .....I didnt think much of it at the time, but using it to hang tons of joist hangers etc would probably be worth it ....it sells for around $200 and was last seen at bunnings ......

and after I did a 2 storey balcony .....so next time I might just get one

[silentC]

Well, I'm not an engineer, so not really in a position to approve or reject anything. But if I was and I saw someone had installed something in a way that was contrary to the manufacturer's recommendations, then I wouldn't put my backside on the line with it, would you?

I actually think the holes are there more for convenience for hand nailing than anything else. Otherwise, it could just be covered with a "minimum 3 nails per bracket face, no nail to be within 5mm of the edge or a fold" for example.

But they already look like a piece of Swiss cheese, so I'd be reluctant to put any more holes in them, and as I said on the previous page, I'm sure that the location, size and number has been subject to assessment and the things approved for use on that basis.

[silentC]

ok this post is a tad late ...since the work has already been done .....but GMC have a new tool , at first look I thought it pretty ordinary compared to a nailgun and much slower ......however it could have saved ya arms from all that hammering .......it takes any sized nail up to around 100mm......you poke it in the magnetic business end head first ...stick the point of the nail where ya want it .....and press the trigger .....its kinda like a hammer drill...it hammers the nail in to the preset depth ....and is cordless with a backup battery .....I didnt think much of it at the time, but using it to hang tons of joist hangers etc would probably be worth it ....it sells for around $200 and was last seen at bunnings ......

and after I did a 2 storey balcony .....so next time I might just get one

That sounds like the palm nailer someone mentioned earlier in this thread. Have yet to see one. Would it take a clout, or is it only suitable for bullet heads?

[journeyman Mick]

Dean,
I have gun nailed them in, but to be honest you've got to go pretty slow to get a good nail placement (to avoid all the issues you identified) and by the time you drag that airline over the trusses or whatever you really don't save that much time. You can give a few boxes of nails, a hammer and a pouch to a totally unskilled labourer or apprentice and keep them occupied without having to keep an eye on them.

MAnoftalent,
saw Dean's review on them, and I doubt that it could drive a nail into hardwood any faster than I could.

Mick

[OBBob]

Yeah ... but we're all slacker than you mick!!

[silentC]

That sounds like the palm nailer someone mentioned earlier in this thread. Have yet to see one. Would it take a clout, or is it only suitable for bullet heads?

Is this the beast in question?: http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...eallnailer.htm

According to Dean it will take a 50mm clout, so could be ok, although 50mm is a bit long I think. 35mm is standard I think.

[silentC]

I doubt that it could drive a nail into hardwood any faster than I could.

You keep forgetting Mick, it's only Queenslanders who have to work with hardwood trusses!

[Deanom]

Silent C,
These brackets really do have good capacity. The thing that is usually critical is the timber in bearing. Timber bearing on a nail does not have much capacity thats why you need significant amounts of nails. The nails and brackets usually arent close to failure, however the timber usually is. Thats why I wouldnt be too concerned. I dont consider I would be putting my ???? on the line if I saw nails driven through the steel bracket. Not counting enough nails in the timber and poor penetration, edge or end distance, I believe would be a critical assessment.

[journeyman Mick]

You keep forgetting Mick, it's only Queenslanders who have to work with hardwood trusses!

Mick

[manoftalent]

I could nail it by hand faster too ......and last time I looked at it, it took All nail sizes up too around 100mm....bullet and flathead .....and upon reflection I think your arm would get just as tired as hammering by hand ...this thing is around the same size as a fencing nailgun ...just cordless ....



"just get it done"!