Wood and Stone - A Historical Research Question

[jackstow]

SWK
Thanks for the idea and the picture. I agree with BobL that ladder are a pain to work from for extended periods, especially if the labour involved requires working stone. The effort and physicality needed would mandate a secure foundation such as that provided by a scaffold. The notion of building a platform into the stone itself sounds a good idea but would require a huge additional investment in energy and labour.

[jackstow]

BobL, I have a question: Which chisel do you think would be best suited to making a round hole, capable of taking a bolt, such as you describe? My research indicates that quarry workers, for example, tended to use a flat-head chisel, the intention being to make 'wedge slots' rather than holes. Sources seem to differ on this: some suggest a 'pitching' or 'pointed' chisel or punch, while others seem to think a flat chisel can accomplish the task. I would appreciate any thoughts you might have on this.

[ian]

Hi Jackstow

I don't think anyone welcomed you -- so welcome to the forums.

With respect, the task faced by your protagonist -- getting to the top of a 60 ft boulder -- is trivial.

A solitary 60 ft high granite boulder on flat grassy plain is a bit unrealistic, but ...

the easiest way for your protagonist to reach the top of the boulder is to use a heaving line. Throwing a heaving line over a 60' (18m) high object would be trivial for any man who had worked with ropes.
The heaving line would be used to pull up a heavier line -- IIRC the second line is called a hauling line -- which would then be used to pull up three ropes which would be staked to the ground either side of the boulder and connected together at the top of the rock.
Lines would be tied between each of the heavy ropes so when finished you would have what looks like a piece of ships rigging.
My estimate is that a competent rigger could complete the task in less than two summer days. A two man rigging team can probably complete the job in less than a day

A "ship's rigging" arrangement would be infinitely adjustable as the chiseling progressed.

Your protagonist would only bother with scaffolding if they had to lift something really heavy up the boulder on a regular basis.

and attaching to the boulder itself would be too much effort.

[swk]

I doubt it
1. there are 22 steps in total. so each step would have to be 2.4ft apart.
Ladder steps are typically 1ft apart so that ladder is less than 25ft.
2. I also put the photo into photoshop and using pixel counts worked out that the chairs have to be 8.5ft tall for that ladder to be 50ft tall.

Bob, its a triple extension ladder.

SWK

[jackstow]

Hello, Ian. Thanks for the welcome, and the reply.

I like the idea of rigging, not only for its simplicity, but also because it ties in with the protagonist's own history. I'm going to give this one serious consideration.

[BobL]

Bob, its a triple extension ladder.

SWK

So it is. Should have see that.

[BobL]

BobL, I have a question: Which chisel do you think would be best suited to making a round hole, capable of taking a bolt, such as you describe? My research indicates that quarry workers, for example, tended to use a flat-head chisel, the intention being to make 'wedge slots' rather than holes. Sources seem to differ on this: some suggest a 'pitching' or 'pointed' chisel or punch, while others seem to think a flat chisel can accomplish the task. I would appreciate any thoughts you might have on this.

Sorry I can't really help here.

[swk]

I didn't have time to write before, but apart from high churches, the other obvious high working place in the 17th century was ships as Ian has indicated. I wasn't thinking about making something like rope ladder in situ (Shrouds, is that what they are called?). But that seems eminently sensible.
I was going to mention using a bosuns chair as the working platform, assuming it could be hung from the rock, but it would be just as easy to hang it from the main ropes too.

We haven't got enough background of Jackstows story, but I assumed it was only one man doing the work (with maybe a helper or two) so scaffolding is really too much work.

Jackstow,
A flat chisel can make a round hole. I think someone else mentioned hitting and turning. The diameter of the hole would be about the same size as the flat blade is across. However a proper tool to do this would be a "star drill".

[BobL]

A solitary 60 ft high granite boulder on flat grassy plain is a bit unrealistic, but ... .

Glacial erratics?
It looks bigger that it is is - this one at Okotoks Alberta is ~30ft high.
IMG_6588p.jpg

Some are huge, in Saskatchewan there are some that are kms x km on the base ~100 m high

[ian]

Bob

oh how I wish I had my geomorpholgy texts with me ...

but from memory, that's a rock, it hasn't been rounded enough by weathering to be a "boulder"

[BobL]

Bob

oh how I wish I had my geomorpholgy texts with me ...

but from memory, that's a rock, it hasn't been rounded enough by weathering to be a "boulder"

Nobody has mentioned a "weathered boulder".
According to wikipedia a boulder is rock fragment bigger than about 10", no mention of weathering.
And
"Erratics are boulders picked up by the ice sheet during its advance, and deposited during its retreat"

[jackstow]

I didn't have time to write before, but apart from high churches, the other obvious high working place in the 17th century was ships as Ian has indicated. I wasn't thinking about making something like rope ladder in situ (Shrouds, is that what they are called?). But that seems eminently sensible.
I was going to mention using a bosuns chair as the working platform, assuming it could be hung from the rock, but it would be just as easy to hang it from the main ropes too.

We haven't got enough background of Jackstows story, but I assumed it was only one man doing the work (with maybe a helper or two) so scaffolding is really too much work.

Jackstow,
A flat chisel can make a round hole. I think someone else mentioned hitting and turning. The diameter of the hole would be about the same size as the flat blade is across. However a proper tool to do this would be a "star drill".

Thanks, SWK
I couldn't get a reliable date for the invention of the star drill. The Carver's chisel, strap drill and rock auger were used to drill holes at the time period. I take your point about the flat chisel making a round hole and have come across several illustrations of the method. Oh, and the Bosun Chair does indeed feature in the story, hung from an apparatus set atop the rock.

[jackstow]

Thanks to all for the replies.
Jackstow

[Robson Valley]

Here and there, I've read suggestions that all you need is a temporary pile of earth and stones, removed as the work progresses.

60+ feet? That's a 6-storey building over here. OK, we must be medieval. Drill the holes. Load the black powder (got money?)
What have you got for fuse? Recall that cannons and flintlock firearms were touch-hole ignition.

Stone carving with mallet & chisel is really humbling for the time it takes me.
Now mind you, stone masons are likely much more efficitient than I am.
I have angle grinders and diamond blades, drill and t/c bits. Tedious.
Every once in a while, I must be doing things right as the work goes quickly.

But your protagonist is going to be making a lot of noise.
On the ground, surrounded by trees would we notice?

[Lappa]

I suppose the definition depends on what source you use. This is Webster's (been around since 1838) definition;Definition of boulder

• : a detached and rounded or much-worn mass of rock