Workshop Safety within clubs

Although our club members have never had any serious accidents we are currently reviewing our Safety Procedures to ensure it remains that way. Rather than re-invent the wheel I would like to hear how other clubs handle safety within the workshop.

Club members can have all levels of experience from beginner to expert. We could also have people with slight disabilities, some age related. As members may not use the machinery regularly, they may not be as familiar with best safety practices for each machine. Some people may use a machine for a task it was not designed for (e.g. using table saw instead of Bandsaw).

Does your club have safety training for its members.
Is the training done by experienced club members, or outsiders.
Do members sign off before they are allowed to use the respective machinery.
How often do you re-train (update) members.
Is it mandatory to wear eye and ear protection when operating machinery and is it policed.

I attend 2 clubs one does no training as to use of any equipment unless there is no background at all in the use of machines etc.
I have a varied background from hand tools to 60 ton press plus vehicles.

The other club I hate to say it has gone over board :roll: to the point I am looking at quitting in 6 months only those deemed to know are allowed to use machines. Worksheets are handed out, a training session done, then move to the next machine. A fine waste of 6 hrs per day and $5 plus yearly fee of $30.

Yes its nice to see and talk to fella's but gee's social time can just become to much.

I've been asked by my club to help draft the Workshop Safety for our shed. I'm in two minds as I know the Workcover version of everyone must be inducted on every machine would not sit well with the older members of the club. Especially those whom have been playing with these toys since Adam was welped (Yes Ray, you :q ). Nor does the suck it and see, version of learning to use the various machines/hand tools sit well with the club committee. So we am looking for a happy medium.

One Proposal is for all members to undertake an induction to the tools as a group, one meeting night and new members without experience get further training. Subjects to be covered is Basic Workshop Safety, Electrical Safety, power cords/breakers etc, Individual Tool Safety and First Aid procedures, ie where the First Aid Kit is kept and where the club phone is.

You might note that I am not specifying machinery, as to me some hand tools are quiet capable of doing harm to a person as a machine.

This is still in it's, very, infancy so it's subject to change and I am not a lawyer, so I may get something wrong.

Yes me Pat

The system your envisioned is what we have gone through at the club I am not impressed with. Its dumbing down an insult to those men who have for years worked in workshops..
You can walk into any where buy tools tek them home and use them no training given, OH&S Workcover and Insurance Co's don't venture there yet.
(Can you imagine going to the store and buying a tool only to be told you have to spend 5 hrs in the back room being isntructed on how to use it)
I agree training is needed but it can get out of hand. When doing the bandsaw session which was more on maintenance then its use, the instructor was using a shifter to loosen and tighten every nut and bolt :doh:.
Nothing like bured heads to cause an accident because the nut/bolt isn't tight.

Ray I've seen your point countless times within Surf Life Saving/my employer, having redone tickets I'd held for some twenty years because some paid desk jockey decided to rename something. I can be cantankerous with the best of them :)

That is why I might write something that I think is suitable, but the committee will have to proof read it and as for maintaining tools, there are alot more experienced members that can teach me :wink:

Then there is the ever present legal aspect, hovering in the back ground. So it's a challenge and if anyone else has an induction process for their group's workshop I can plagerise/borrow ideas can they send me a pm.

Pat I'll email you them in pdf format in few days you'll need a good laugh after spending up big at SWWS

Thanks Ray. I'll probably blow my budget and have to survive on bread and drippings for a month or two, so a good laugh would be handy :U

The club I go to has group induction for each machine. This is not so much on the use of it, but the safety aspects. Were the emergency stop button. What not to do. What safety gear to wear. etc. The proper use of the machine from a technical point of view is up to each person. The key holder is approachable enough to ask for assistance. You are still allowed to use the machine if you haven't done the safety induction, but over time you are expected to get each machine signed off. I have only done the machines that I use, not all of them.

regardless of what machine we are talking about the important thing is to make sure the nut that holds the on-off switch is in good order.
(sorry)
witch1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tea lady

You are still allowed to use the machine if you haven't done the safety induction, but over time you are expected to get each machine signed off. I have only done the machines that I use, not all of them.

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Crikey, too much common sense at that club, it will be closed down for sure! :oo:

Our club is just at the initial stage of going through this. By initial I mean at the very beginning. Only a few of us really see a need for this mainly because we are still in the workforce or recently retired. But the old farts who run the club, two in particular, think they knows everything when in fact it is obvious to quite a few of us that time has caught up with them and they are becoming a bit sloppy in their attitude to safety around machines.

Their attention to detail is slipping and unfortunately they do not realize it. A couple of other older guys ability is dropping also, but at least they know that they are not as up to the mark as they used to be which happens to all of us.

So for us the problem we have is to try to manage this problem delicately, not upset some people , but let them know they are still wanted around the club but at the same time try to keep up to date with the Work place health and safety requirements without making the place too much like a workplace, but somewhere where we can enjoy each others company, marvel at some of the quality and diversity we have here and if we do not really want to do anything that day just wander around and be comfortable.

We are fortunate in that we have two highly qualified people here, a retired engineer, our president and a retired Pattern Maker. We have a retired Cabinet Maker who does not do much now but is a good sounding board for advice about a particular problem.

I will follow this thread with interest, but while I feel I have some input and respect from the management committee I like to tread slowly and only make a suggestion when I have something to back it up.

I was taught the hard way a long time ago, never to criticize a club or organization without putting up an alternative plan that I believed in. Whether the plan was successful or not was not the issue but if I believed in it. The point made to me was never to criticize for the sake of criticism without offering up some solution to the problems at hand.

Peter.

While I don't have experience in woodworking clubs, my real paying job (with a large corporation admittedly) is to ensure that new employees have sufficient training to do their job safely. We take a two pronged approach.

1. For those new employees who don't have any experience, we train them in the stuff they need to know. The final part of the training is an assessment. Pretty standard train and assess regime.

2. For those new employees that have experience and / or previous training, we either recognise their training as equivalent to what we require OR we assess them to the same standard as if they had completed the appropriate course. If the assessment identifies gaps in their knowledge, we provide the necessary gap training and re-assess them.

For the experienced people in your club, it may be possible to simply assess them and keep a record of the assesment. The beauty of this approach is that you sidestep a whole bunch of issues around training and the guys that have been there the longest will usually pass the assessment with ease.

Keeping a record of the training and / or assessment is usually adequate evidence of having inducted people to use the machinery.

The other thing that we have been advised that would also discharge our duty of care (in some instances) is to provide a simple guide for equipment. The guide (by it's nature) is very visual ie. lots of photos. Users can refer to the guide before they use the equipment to refresh their memory. This is particularly good where people have been trained and / or assessed, but have not used the equipment for a while.

I'm interested to see the outcome.

Good luck !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jigsaw

Although our club members have never had any serious accidents we are currently reviewing our Safety Procedures to ensure it remains that way. Rather than re-invent the wheel I would like to hear how other clubs handle safety within the workshop.

Club members can have all levels of experience from beginner to expert. We could also have people with slight disabilities, some age related. As members may not use the machinery regularly, they may not be as familiar with best safety practices for each machine. Some people may use a machine for a task it was not designed for (e.g. using table saw instead of Bandsaw).

Does your club have safety training for its members.
Is the training done by experienced club members, or outsiders.
Do members sign off before they are allowed to use the respective machinery.
How often do you re-train (update) members.
Is it mandatory to wear eye and ear protection when operating machinery and is it policed.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by STAR

Our club is just at the initial stage of going through this. By initial I mean at the very beginning. Only a few of us really see a need for this mainly because we are still in the workforce or recently retired. But the old farts who run the club, two in particular, think they knows everything when in fact it is obvious to quite a few of us that time has caught up with them and they are becoming a bit sloppy in their attitude to safety around machines.

Their attention to detail is slipping and unfortunately they do not realize it. A couple of other older guys ability is dropping also, but at least they know that they are not as up to the mark as they used to be which happens to all of us.

I will follow this thread with interest, but while I feel I have some input and respect from the management committee I like to tread slowly and only make a suggestion when I have something to back it up.

I was taught the hard way a long time ago, never to criticize a club or organization without putting up an alternative plan that I believed it. Whether the plan was successful or not was not the issue but if I believed in it. The point made to me was never to criticize for the sake of criticism without offering up some solution to the problems at hand.

Peter.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pat

I've been asked by my club to help draft the Workshop Safety for our shed. I'm in two minds as I know the Workcover version of everyone must be inducted on every machine would not sit well with the older members of the club. Especially those whom have been playing with these toys since Adam was welped (Yes Ray, you :q ). Nor does the suck it and see, version of learning to use the various machines/hand tools sit well with the club committee. So we am looking for a happy medium.

One Proposal is for all members to undertake an induction to the tools as a group, one meeting night and new members without experience get further training. Subjects to be covered is Basic Workshop Safety, Electrical Safety, power cords/breakers etc, Individual Tool Safety and First Aid procedures, ie where the First Aid Kit is kept and where the club phone is.

You might note that I am not specifying machinery, as to me some hand tools are quiet capable of doing harm to a person as a machine.

This is still in it's, very, infancy so it's subject to change and I am not a lawyer, so I may get something wrong.

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Pat, Peter, Jigsaw

possibly a set of A4 posters (like the attached) might cover 90% of the issues that need to be addressed

I would suggest that each Club look at what their State Regulatory Authority says that the Club must adere to, e.g. WorkCover in NSW.
From that you can set up the required Safety Instructions PPE Equipment etc that would be required by the Authority.
I could offer advice on the Machine side as to compliance to WorkCover and AS Standards if need.

Regards,
Keith.

I have been critical of safety aspects at our club for some time, but to broach the subject is tantamount to sacrilege. Even if the subject of insurance risks is mentioned there is an air of nonchalance.

There is no formal training in place and some very dogmatic opinions about issues concerning safety and training. One can be an experienced user of all sorts of things but if the clique decides you are not going to use something, then you won't.

How all these problems can be overcome is a moot point. Perhaps the safety police need to be called in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

I have been critical of safety aspects at our club for some time, but to broach the subject is tantamount to sacrilege. Even if the subject of insurance risks is mentioned there is an air of nonchalance.

There is no formal training in place and some very dogmatic opinions about issues concerning safety and training. One can be an experienced user of all sorts of things but if the clique decides you are not going to use something, then you won't.

How all these problems can be overcome is a moot point. Perhaps the safety police need to be called in.

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Arthur, are you talking about your club or have you been moonlighting at ours under a non-de-plume. ( non-de-plume) is that how you spell it. :? I am sure a school teacher here will correct me if I am wrong,

It seems like the problem is not isolated, and needs somebody with more diplomatic skills than I possess.

Peter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

I have been critical of safety aspects at our club for some time, but to broach the subject is tantamount to sacrilege. Even if the subject of insurance risks is mentioned there is an air of nonchalance.

There is no formal training in place and some very dogmatic opinions about issues concerning safety and training. One can be an experienced user of all sorts of things but if the clique decides you are not going to use something, then you won't.

How all these problems can be overcome is a moot point. Perhaps the safety police need to be called in.

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Seems this can be the case in any situation/club where the committee decides machines/bits n bobs are required procured/purchased for the members benefit from funds raised by members or generous donations from well meaning business. Only then members are told sorry but your not trained/qualified to use it and the clique are the ones only who get the benefit.:~:((

Safety procedures are needed in place I agree but how does Workcover come into a club situation its not work :? its supposed to be there for members enjoyment, stress relief.

I do voluntary work at a mens shed that is set up to help men with disabilities (either physical or mental problems). The safety procedures are as follows :

1. To be allowed to use any machginery you must be authorized to do so by the paid staff, normally after a safety induction session which is one on one.

2. If there is any problem or accident (including a kickback on the saws) with a machine a safety tag must be attached to that machine. That tag can only be removed by paid staff and whilst the tag is there that machine cannot be used.

3. Every body is responsible for everyones safety. That means that if you see something unsafe call attention to that and stop that procedure.

4. Eyesight protection must be used on and hearing protection is advised with all saws.

This works without being onerous and we have an excellent safety record.


Peter.

I suspect if a situation arose where a club was sued by an injured person that unless the operation / maintainence training etc of tools and machinery met workcover standards then the club will lose the legal action. And this is proper, why should club members and volunteers be expected to do things without the level of safety that every australian worker is entitled to get.

If I was in your situation Artme just make sure your concerns are properly minuted, then say no more, if you keep raising the subject you'll end up being tagged a troublemaker.

All comments about my comments are very pertinent.

I don't actually advocate the WPH&S departments having oversight. They are, however the ones with the expertise and their guidance would prove to be most useful. Perhaps the training of some club members at WH&S courses could be the way to go.

I fear for the day that some new member arrives at a club, is given no induction and is seriously injured. The club, I believe, would cease to exist and that would be a sad outcome.

The problem of club politics will always remain. Doing something about true safety measures should not be compromised by this.

star,
nom de plume translates to "pen name" hope you approve of my answering your question, I am not a smart ask but I do like to help.
witch1

From what I can see looking at the Men's Shed Australia web site that Men's Sheds are self run businesses, as such would then be subject to the relative States OHS Laws.
This would mean that they have a OHS Committee, Induction Policy, Work Method Statements etc for the Members and if they have paid Employees it would be manditory.
In setting up these Policies and Practices advice could be sought from associations like Safety Institue of Australia where their members have wrote and implimented OHS Systems and Proceedures.
The Machinery and Equipment bought or donated would also need to comply with Standards like AS4024.1-2006 Safety of Machinery.
I understand that the aim of Men's Sheds is a place to meet and share ones experiances and expertize but you need to look at the legal aspects if some one is injured and who the Regulatory Authorities is going to prosecute.

Regards,
Keith.

Many thanks for all of the replies.
We currently have training for each machine in the workshop. Members are only required to do the training on the machines they are going to use. We have a chart on the wall indicating who is able to use each machine.

Although technically everyone does the training (for the relevant machine's), people who come from the industry and have the experience have less training and are included on the list. The experienced people train the others.
We also keep an eye out for everyone. If it is noticed that someone is not working safe we let them know (e.g. not using a push stick). If they fail to take action we ban them from the workshop. In saying this, we have never had to take this action. I prefer this approach if it means we don't lose fingers or eyes etc.
If any of us can stop our buddies from having an accident it obviously helps them but it also reduces the possibility of an insurance claim which keeps our premiums lower.
I also believe that workcover in Vic is not relevant to clubs, it is only for employers.

We also include safety items in our newsletter and as an agenda item at our general meetings. If members don't like our approach to safety, I don't mind if they leave the club. One members wife has told him, he is not to use the lathe without his mask after he recently had a minor mishap that could have been a lot worse.

We are also putting together a safety manual for the club, with all safety material and operating procedures in one spot. The safety check lists are also placed above each machine. If other clubs would like a copy when it is complete, please send me a PM. I was expecting a lot of responses to my original message and would have included these items in my manual.

Because of the number of people within the club and the vast range of experience levels, we sometimes see people using the wrong machine for their task. Table saw instead of Bandsaw etc.

P.s. I was intrigued recently by a person responding to another thread complaining about the cost of protective overglasses ($12 I think). I did not respond but felt like saying. Are your eyes worth $12 to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by witch1

star,
nom de plume translates to "pen name" hope you approve of my answering your question, I am not a smart ask but I do like to help.
witch1

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Thanks for that. I was unsure of that word.

Peter

Safety induction should be a significant issue for and such club.....the legal consequences of not having some sort of safety induction in this day and age are just mind boggling.

The problem with all these "old guys that know what they are doing" is that a great many of them have safey expectations that are well out of date and possibly dangerous..... some of them just wont be told......if they wont be told... sorry you cant afford to have them arround.

If you go into any modern and informed work place every body gets the same induction.... because you simply CAN NOT ASSUME that they know the correct safety procedures.

I wold go further.....I would say that the training has to be done by sombody that has been externaly certified as competent to deliver the training.
Otherwise it is legaly not worth a cracker.

I have seen and heard of people giving training in such situations who are obvioulsy not properly informed and certainly not externaly certified.
In these situations people who are training have done and shown procedusre or methods that are plainly wrong and or dangerous.

This whole public and personal liability thing could easily break woodworking clubs just like it has broken horse riding clubs.

What is needed is some sort of combined approach and a standarised package for woodworking clubs.

Just think......if such happens... will the insurance company pay out.....if they pay out who are they going to try and recover their costs from.

If you are the trainer and have given incorrect information that resulted in a claim they are very likly to come looking for YOU.

So make sure whatever you do is RIGHT.

cheers