Hello,
I read somewhere that your not supposed to use it ? ...cause its really mean't for metal working or something like that......but why shouldn't you use it on wood ?
ta.
Printable View
Hello,
I read somewhere that your not supposed to use it ? ...cause its really mean't for metal working or something like that......but why shouldn't you use it on wood ?
ta.
cause little bits of steel get caught in the grain and rust and mark the wood.
Makes sense, but is it that big a deal. cause lots of people use it on wood.
It discolours finishes if it is in the timber, even oil based ones, as it is affected by moisture from the wood itself. Fine wool (000) is used to rub down finishes though.
On the contrary guys, I have never had such a problem with using steel wool on timber over the past 19 years I have been restoring antiques and on all the joinery of my two historic homes.
In stripping back paint by hand (using a heatgun to remove paint) I then always use a caustic based paint stripper with coarse grade steel wool. Once I have the muck off I always use more coarse grade steel wool with water and detergent to neutralise the caustic. Once the wood is dry I usually do a two stage sand using coarse and fine grade sandpaper, which is then coated using shellac (French Polish), cutting back the first and sometimes second layers (multiple coats) with fine grade sandpaper and finally cutting back with fine grade steel wool and then bees wax polish. In fact using steel wool is the only way to get the correct finish for antiques and the desired finish I seek in restoring antique timber surfaces of joinery.
If the surface (eg bench top) or floor boards then steel wool would be far too slow and I simply use a hand sander (ie orbital sander) and coat using a tung oil based product (eg Feast Watson floor seal). Dave
All a question of your perspective, I suppose, Jake. I think I picked up the aversion to steel wool from Neil's book and if Neil thinks something about finishing, I believe.
Horsecroft, yes, I can see why you don't have any problems - you have a sensible routine. You sand after using the coarse wool then seal the timber with shellac before applying wool again.
The real issue is to ensure you are not leaving any fibers under the finish, so if you allow for that there should not be any problem.
JMK, not knowing who Neil is, I will trust in the way I have always worked with wood in finishing it. I can seriously say I have never had an issue with a rust stain appearance with wood.
Yep Groggy all I can say is that the way I work with wood is to my mind straight forward and always gives excellent results. You are correct re not leaving any steel wool behind, which is why I always dust off after sanding with both wool and sandpaper, vacuming where necessary and also using a dry and clean paint brush to tease out any residual dust. Dave
Neil is UBeaut and his book "The Polisher's Handbook"
As has been mentioned, small particles of steel wool become embeded in the unsealed wood and any residual or applied water will envigorate the woods natural tannin which in turn reacts with the iron in the steel wool forming iron acetate. Iron acetate shows up as blue-black streaks in the wood. If the steel wool remains in wet wood for long enough, it will also rust causing further staining.
Apart from all that, embeded steel wool, even if no chemical reaction occurs, often shows up as unsightly grey patches in pale timbers.
some finishers use stainless steel wool to overcome discolouration/rust aspects
A more accurate statement might have been: "In fact using steel wool is the only way to get the desired finish I seek in restoring antique timber surfaces of joinery".Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsecroft88
Nope not sure I would agree, since in discussing finishing techinques with professional antique restorers, as well as a retired lecturer from the TAFE who taught furniture restoration, the use of steel wool, as I described it was the method they taught/or used and recommended. I really can't see how else you would get the degree of surface finness required by French polishing for antiques. Happy to be advised otherwise. :U
The key being here that the sanding of the surface after the initial stripping using coarse steel wool will get rid of any residual steel wool fibres, and thereafter, once you have applied shellac (over multiple coats), it has actually sealed the timber and there is no way I can think of possible for fine steel wool to be embedded in the surface and cause any issues of staining.
As I also said I have been using this method for the past 19 years both for myself as well as semi professionally on occasions and never had an issue, and this is whether using re-cycled old wood or "new" wood, and irrespective of hard woods (eg. tas oak), cedar or all sorts of pine. I simply am trying to dispell the myth that steel wool is not suitable, as based on my experience. Perhaps others have different experiences, and that also is fine by me.
Seems to me that you are using coarse steel wool as a method of stripping old finish, not to impart smoothness to the raw wood, which is what is being asked about here. You are sanding the raw wood afterwards, and you would not do that if you were using steel wool to prepare the finished surface.
Your later use of 000 or 0000 steel wool after applying shellac is a different thing altogether and no-one is objecting to it. You are using steel wool on shellac at this point, not on raw timber.
So let's be clear before it turns into a Rudd-storm in a tea cup: We are talking about using 000 or 0000 steel wool to prepare a raw wood surface prior to applying finish. In any book I have read, that is not recommended.
Cheap steel wool can contain oil residues DAMHIKT
That's a separate issue though, isn't it? I always buy mine from the paint shop and it is designed for finishing work - no oil.
Fine steel wool breaks down almost to a powder as you use it. The problem as I see it with using it on raw wood is that particles of it will get trapped in the fibres and pores.
That is why you should never use it on raw wood - unless you're going to sand it again, which defeats the purpose of using fine steel wool in the first place. Once you've applied shellac or whatever, there's no problem.
That sounds like something that probably came from me The don't use it bit is for use on RAW timber as a fine abrasive.Quote:
cause its really mean't for metal working or something like that
Using it as a tool for stripping as mentioned by Horsecroft88 above is fine and the accepted way of finishing off the stripping process, as the surface id then washed and sanded in preparation to accept stain, bleach, filler, shellac or whatever else. In this case there is no broken gown steel wool left in the timber to cause a problem.
Using it over shellac or another finish also isn't a problem. Where the problem comes in is when some people think they can get a better surface on their RAW timber by rubbing with steel wool. This is often a woodturning thing more than it is a problem with finishing flat surfaces.
Woodturners used to use it because it made the timber look great in a few seconds (hopefully most have learned different by now). For starters the steel wool stops cutting a few seconds into the work and begins to burnish the timber rather than cut it. If you wet the work down it will swell up because all the burnishing does is lay the fibres of the timber over. If the timber is green or has a high tannin content you will get reasonably swift, often disasterous marking on the face of the work and penetrating into the surface. Apart fron that it's dangerous on as lsthe and if caught in a chuck can easily skin, deglove or even worse cut off a finger.
It also has additives to stop it from rusting that can in some instances play havock with a finish. It will catch fire really easily and is very hard to extinguish. If you put it in a jar of shellac it will turn it black and ruin the polish.
Back to the main question. Steel wool has plenty of used in woodworking and restoration but not as a fine abrasive on raw timber.
One of the best uses my sons found for steel wool some 20 years ago was to tie a big hank of it to the end of a stick or rope in the black of night and light it with a match very easily done then swing it around in a big arc for an absolutely brilliant fire show. Make sure you have lots of land around and nothing within 50 metres that can catch fire.
Better still don't do it at all.
Cheers - Neil :U
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
:iagree:Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
<style></style>However, my initial point was to dispute "...using steel wool is the only way to get the correct finish for antiques". It may be your preferred medium for your chosen course of action, but is neither the sole or universal method. There are a great many ways to finish an oiled, shellacked or waxed surface without resorting to steel wool.
FYI Horsecroft88, I've been a professional restorer of 17th and 18th century English and European furniture since 1977 and have taught restoration at a college in England. I can safely say; neither I nor any of my peers would ever remotely contemplate introducing steel wool to the raw wood of anything of importance. :;
What Neil said too - except I still maintain that when used for stripping timber bare, it's asking for trouble if the item is going to be clear-coated! It's probably not such a problem on joinery as Horsecroft88 is doing, but using steel wool to scrub furniture or anyting that is likely to bear close scrutiny should be avoided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
Adding to what Neil said about it being used on a lathe:
For a final sand on raw timber it is easily replaced by EEE on a cloth wad. Still prone to catching and flailing around the lathe, but with far less disastrous consequences for fingers.
I do occasionally use 0000 wool for wet-sanding a flood finish of Danish, (for example) as sand-paper tends to take off the crispness of detail whereas the wool will conform better to the profile.
But never on raw timber... those previously mentioned black spots from caught particles are just downright ugly.
the only good steel wool i have found in 0000 is from liberon but i am now using webrax as it lasts longer , does'nt fall apart and you can hit it with a compressor to clean it . I am getting mine from carrolls www.cws.au.com :2tsup: