Asbestos? Found in school ...help!!!

Hello all, hoping someone can help me. I found some material that I suspect could be asbestos. One sample is a section of broken piping that looks like cement but it has brownish grey spines or prickles that I could see on the rough broken edge, the other sample is like a white/grey sheet that has sort of spun white fairy floss texture over it, feels sort of like cement sheet but maybe a tad thicker but not much and maybe a little softer. The other material I found was sort of like hemp colour wise but more like a texture of insulation batts. I am stressing as to what to do as kids have been playing with all this material. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thx

I think the best course of action would be to cordon off the area and prevent the kids from playing with it any further.

If this is a state school, I would be guessing that there is government education department who is in charge of the school and associated maintenance and they should be contacted. If it is a private school then they should be able to contact the relevant people to assess and remove the offending material if required.

There are a number of companies in the yellow pages across Australia that specialise in asbestos removal. I just entered in "asbestos removal" in the business type for Brisbane and it returned 188 results !

Somebody else may have a specific company they can recommend.

Good luck !

Hi, I have been trying to get action but it appears to be no interest so I am sort of lost as to what to do next

It isn't really possible to identify asbestos without proper lab testing so get a sample tested as soon as possible. It is not an expensive procedure.

astbestos fibres are not brown

The fibres are not an brown brown sort of greyish brown, like a mousy brown grey colour, quite spinny like a needle and appeared rigid & straight. These pipes did they just come in cement asbestos, pvc & metal. Was there any other types used?

Not having a go at you Jackie, but I reckon the first thing to do is not panic. Second thing to do is something along the lines of Jacksam's advice.
Best of luck with it and I hope it turns out OK for you.



A now for some general ramblings on this topic.

Since we became aware of the dangers of asbestos, people have become a too little paranoid about it. Yes, under certain circumstances it can be dangerous, but (and here's the clincher) the presence of materials containing asbestos in your immediate vicinity is not a signed death warrant. As far as I'm aware, the only danger is breathing asestos fibres. No danger exists from looking at it, thinking about it, skin contact or even eating it. If an accredited lab identifies material as asbestos, there may be cause for concern if it has been handled, but only if it has been damaged/cut/broken and the fibres actually taken into the lungs. In some cases, less fibres are released if the asbestos is properly sealed in place than if it's removed, but people usually panic and want complete removal. Asbestos used in construction usually only presents a danger when disturbed.

Keep in mind that up until recently in Australia, asbestos was used in brake linings (amongst other things), so anybody living in urban centres (and is old enough to go to school) has been exposed to some level of asbestos. I know of one study by a brake lining manufacturer where the air quality outside Flinders St train station in the Melbourne CBD about ten years ago was found to have levels of asbestos far in excess of that considered safe.

My point is: we should absolutely minimise exposure as much as is humanly possible without losing too much sleep if some is found in our general vicinity as odds are, we have all had some level of exposure already. Asbestos risk needs to be taken very seriously, all the while considering that one asbestos fibre is not necessarily going to kill you.

Thank you so much for your response. To be honest I cant help but stress about it as this school had demolition work plus asbestos removal. There is all these broken fragements that are lying around and the kids have been playing with making different things. I am particulary worried about the broken pipe fragements and the sheet type that has all this cotton like fibres over it. I have a number of samples that I will get tested but I have so many possing questions to how did this occur when there is meant to be asbestos removal proceedures to follow. How long has it been there? what danger has the kids and general public been exposed to if this is Asbestos?. The fragements I found of the sheeting appear to be old deterioted sheets or maybe millboard, they appear quite friable and could be crumbled quite easy from what I can ascertain.

Dear Jackie,
it sounds like your kids might be dealing with asbestos.
It's quite easy to get rid of it: call some asbestos removalists, who will in turn wrap all materials in thick black plastic and take it to the tip. It will cost you between $50-150, depending on how much the tip charges.
If you're in WA let me know, as i have been dealing with asbestos for years.
regards,
Adam

Thanks Adam, there's heaps of it!!! like the kids are making rock walls, throwing it, smashing it. What risks do you think the kids would have been exposed to?

hi jackie123, i am new member to this forum, very few posts, but i hope i can help you.

first thing to do, would be to buy yourself a respirator, sandwich/freezer bags.

take a small sample of the alleged asbestos and place in sandwich bag and then seal this bag. place in an envelope and prepare for postage.

the company i have been recommended by the HIA whom, btw, i got my class B asbestos removal licence from, is Parsons Brinckerhoff.
web address.. pb.com.au

they have offices/labs in every major city in australia and nz.

you will get all their contact details on their website.

i would also recommend taping off the area where you think the asbestos is, you can also use a spray bottle( from bunnings, very cheap), fill with one fifth PVA carpenters wood glue, four fifths water and mix thoroughly.
then you can spray affected pipes/sheets/materials.

this mixture will prevent any loose dust particles becoming airborne while you are waiting for the sample to be tested at the lab and until you get a licenced asbestos removal contractor to remove the asbestos.

hope this helps you, good luck , justin.

Hi Justin, I tend to agree I think it is asbestos, trouble is I've already handled it myself, I carefully picked it up with my bare hands, I didn't break it they are relatively small fragements and it's quite fragile regardless. I just gently placed it into a bag well a couple of bags and sealed it and then washed my hands. Hopefully this was safe but really when you think of it I must of been walking through it as it's scattered under the dirt and on top of it. Do you think it would still be dangerous since I have bhandled it without any protection? oh my, I am starting to stress about all this. The other problem is I dont have any control to just tape it off as it is not my property but a government department

handling asbestos is not a major problem, as long as you have washed your hands, which you say you did, so dont worry.

the main problem with asbestos is the airborne dust, it only takes 1 particle to get lodged in your lungs and damage to be done. if i was you i would google asbestos removal in your city and call them tomorrow morning.

i would also be calling the builder that you say has been working there too, find out if the builder is licenced to handle/remove asbestos.

asbestos removal is expensive, a lot more than $50-$150 dollars.
asbestos skip would be a minimum $440. which does include heavy duty 200 micrometre polythene lining for the skip.

regards, justin.

Apparently the removal of the abestos was contracted out to an Abestos remover and apparently there is compliance certificates etc but why would this material be left lying around? what is more bizare is that the director apparently has sent the piping material away more than a week ago but keeps saying the results are not back. I thought normally the results would be through in 24-48 hours

i would be calling the asbestos removal company and demand that they arrive on site tomorrow morning. if they were contracted to remove all the asbestos they should have removed that material also. surely that would have been included in their original contract.

as far as the sample that has been sent to the lab, some labs are fast, some slow, it all depends how busy they are.

well I would have thought they should have removed all of it, but if this is asbestos why is it there? the pipe I am pretty sure was asbestos. How do you really know where it could be there would be pieces scattered everywhere from where the kids have moved it. Plus some of it would be buried under the ground amongst the rubble.

Jackie, keep in mind that not all cement based building products had asbestos in them. I would imagine that a government organisation such as the education system would have a paper trail a mile long regarding the correct identification and removal of asbestos from your site by licensed removalists. If said removalists have already been and gone, I would be very surprised if they left any AC lying around - they would be absolutely crucified by the legal machine that only a government can bring to bear. They have probably decided that they were only paid remove asbestos, so that's all they were prepared to take.
Until you hear otherwise from the lab that tested your particular samples, be cautious, take precautions (some good suggestions above) but don’t panic. Beware of helpful advice from old Bazza down at the pub who says colour X and texture Y means that it is or is not AC. AC products come in many forms and only with proper testing can you be sure.
Cheers,
Mick

G'day Mick, well I starting to panic!!!! I had the samples tested and they came back positive nearly all of them but they are all in different forms but definately contain asbestos in various consistencies and various types. One type is nearly if not all asbestos!!! Oh my!!! I am stressing. I have so many things going through my head.

Sorry to hear that, Jackie. I suspect that now would be the time to get some specific health advice about the relative levels of risk you and your students are facing. It appears no longer appropriate for non-experts such as myself to comment (speculate) further except to say that I wish you the best of luck for a positive outcome.

Mick, which health officials would be best to speak to?

Jackie,

Panic is propably the worst thing to do at the moment.

Don't know which part of Oz you're in but this is what I would do now.

Document the area of concern (i.e. the kids play here, photos etc..) and with the test results send it to your state education department. Also copy the Heath department with all this info.

Now this it the big one. Since someone did an asbestos removal and left some behind (bad removal practice) send a copy to the EPA as well.

There should now be enough fuss to get something done. The EPA might be the first to step in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackie123

Mick, which health officials would be best to speak to?

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Dunno mate. As I said, I'm not an expert here, but I would suggest your GP may be a good place to start and they can refer you on if necessary. Get the education union involved. They will no doubt have a clearly defined plan of acton about this.

I hope so guy's, hope they do something asap. I truly cannot understand why this particular issue is not being dealt with urgency or of utmost concern. I just dont get it! it's bizzare. Does anyone know what would the procedure be to get an independent risk assessment done?

Jackie 123,

I'm in a school so I have experienced this sort of thing first hand. I have a few questions for you before you get too worried about the asbestos.

* I must have missed the principal's reaction to you reporting the asbestos. They have a butt to protect and would probably get very involved with the situation.
* You probably have an OH&S committee and/or delegate who is probably trained and knows what to do.
* If it is asbestos you have a duty of care to protect students which does not involve panicking. You may need to tell someone further up the food chain if principal in not interested.

Graham

Yep. It sounds like at present you are the only person who is aware there is actually asbestos present. Until you have informed somebody in authority I doubt anything will happen. I hope you are doing that today - quietly, calmly, and with a view to seeing an immediate response

Peter

Hi Peter, actually the authorities have known for sometime re the suspected asbestos but no test results were forthcomining. This is why I had my own tests conducted to confirm my thoughts of the material. Which is now confirmed by an accredited lab

Hello Graham, I am honestly so concerned. I raised my thoughts of the product immediately and have been worried sick ever since. I really dont know what else I can do as I dont want to panic anyone but I believe there needs to be immediate action taken and substaintial questions answered. Actually just thinking you might be able guide me on the correct process that a school & workcover should follow. Is there a state action plan as such which both parties should follow?. Can also an independent audit/risk assessment be conducted to determine the cause & associated risk for past, present & future?. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated as I am lost with all this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackie123

Hello Graham, I am honestly so concerned. I raised my thoughts of the product immediately and have been worried sick ever since. I really dont know what else I can do as I dont want to panic anyone but I believe there needs to be immediate action taken and substaintial questions answered.

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As you said that it was government property I presume the school is a government school. I also assume that you are a concerned parent and not an employee of the school.

If so I suggest that you immediately inform the Principal in writing advising him of the problem and a copy of the test result and also advise him that you will hold him personally liable for any illnesses that may occur in the future to you and your children as a result of his failure to ensure the correct removal of the asbestos material.

At the same time deliver a copy of your letter to the Regional Director of the Education Department and /or the head office of the department.

Finally send copies of this to the TV current affairs shows and/or talk back radio stations like (in Vic) 693-3AW.

However if you are an employee of the school it may be better to first talk to your union officials.

Hope this helps and good luck in your endeavours trying to make it safe for everyone.

Asbestos is not a health risk in normal use, it is actually quite a good fire retardant and insulation material.

As many have mentioned, the only real trouble with it is when it is worked with machines or being demolished which creates airborne dust.
Unless there is airborne dust there is not a problem, remember, the media never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Removal is quite dangerous, often more dangerous than sealing it in place, it creates dust and particles which settle all around.

Comments like "it only takes one particle to kill you" are about as valid as it only takes one shark to eat you or it only takes one lightning strike to kill you.

Don't panic, if there is no dust, it is quite safe.

Jackie123,

You are remaining very anonymous at the moment and there is probably a reason for that.
I don't know whether you are in a govt school or the private system and in what state.
If you just happen to be in the NSW state system I can help you with specific info- much of which is stated above.
You are correct to be concerned and the least to be done in the situation is a risk assessment carried out by an accredited person.
If you want to remain anonymous to the Forum, you may send me a PM for further info or specific advice.
Graham

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

Finally send copies of this to the TV current affairs shows and/or talk back radio stations like (in Vic) 693-3AW.

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After posting this I caught the tail end of a story on Today Tonight about asbestos found lying around in schools, I think it was NSW. At the end of the story there was a reference that their website had links as to what to do if it happened at other schools.

Worth checking out.


Peter.

Hello Graham, I will PM you shortly probably in the am. Not sure how to do it on the forum but I am sure I can work it out in the morning.

Hello all, I must say it's been really great having you guys to help me with all this and thanks so much for everyones guidance and help, it's really appreciated. I have been taking your suggestions and putting some of them into action but I have to say still they do nothing to my knowledge.... it's unbelievable. I dont get it!!! honestly am I being overeactive with this? is it not important to anyone? is it not urgent? or is it something that I should just accept? I dont know cause this is how I am starting to feel. It's like asbestos is not an issue. Am I missing something or just being concerned about nothing? Well maybe they are working on something and not telling me? all I can say everything appears the same. Must being getting tired, will keep you posted and if you think of anything else just let me know.

hi jackie, you are not being over active, i think you are doing the right thing.
i have been working as a carpenter for 20 years, when i find asbestos on a construction site, i take it very seriously, it is not something we dismiss easily.

the fact that i have to deal with it every other week was the reason i went to the HIA and received the class B licence last year.

there are protocols to handling and removing asbestos, the fact that no one at the school is taking action immediately is bizzare and unprofessional.

it might be time to get professional advice from a building inspector and maybe you should contact a solicitor also. your health is at risk too.

regards, justin.

Here's the Official Dept of Ed NSW Info:

(You probably won't be able to access the links but I'll include some)

Asbestos Fibro

The Department of Education and Training has established a State Contract for the survey of DET facilities. Details regarding this contract can be found in the following Memoranda and brochure information distributed to Principals, Institute Directors and Regional Directors by email on Friday 16th November 2007.
a. DN signed by GM, with b. 2100BrochureB

The survey period is from November 2007 to May 2008.
Once materials testing results are integrated with the survey data an asbestos register will be issued to schools or TAFE. A hardcopy will be provided to schools or TAFE with electronic versions available through the Asset Management System (AMS) accessible by regional Asset Management Unit (AMU) staff.
Asbestos and asbestos containing materials (e.g. Fibro) may be present in school buildings (as building products) and in school grounds, usually as fibro fragments.
What You Need To Know About Asbestos-Containing Materials

The Department has developed a plain English asbestos management guideline titled: What You Need to Know About Asbestos-Containing Materials. It has been developed for use by Principals, staff and the school community. This guideline outlines the processes to be followed if asbestos materials are identified in a school/TAFE site. This publication gives an overview of asbestos and its risks, how DET manages asbestos related issues and sources of information regarding asbestos.

• Please follow the link below for the What You Need To Know About Asbestos-Containing Materials brochure
  
  Download the PDF version here (Size: 111 kB)

Asbestos Management Plan

• Asbestos Management Plan - September 2008 (PDF Size: 2.74 MB)

This is a technical document detailing how asbestos issues are dealt with by DET and the responsibilities within DET and other government agencies.
Use of imported fill on School Sites

A significant number of asbestos remediation projects on school grounds have been required in response to unauthorised imported fill containing asbestos materials and other contaminants. Advice was distributed to principals in 2006 DN/06/00362 which is based on earlier advice in the School Asset Maintenance Guidelines (see page 25 'Development Applications' and page 30 'Grounds Maintenance').

2)

What you need to know about Asbestos-containing materials

Information for NSW Schools and TAFEs - June 2007
Table of Contents

• Introduction
• The Asbestos Issue
  
  • What is asbestos and where is it found?
  • Bonded and friable asbestos?
  • When is asbestos a problem?
• I think I have found some asbestos - What happens next?
• Management of Asbestos containting Material
  
  • How does the Department manage asbestos-containintg material?
  • What has the department done so far?
  • What are the methods of controlling asbestos hazards?
  • What are the School's/TAFE responsibilities?
  • How do I know if work on or near asbestos-containing materials is being done safely?
  • What licences and approvals are required by the contractor completing the work?
  • What do I do if it appears unsafe practices are occuring?
• Where can I get more information?
  
  • Department of Education and Training Intranet
  • Other Government websites
  • Asbestos related laws and codes of practice in NSW

3)
What you need to know about Asbestos-containing materials

I think I have found some Asbestos - what happens next?


If you identify a possible asbestos hazard at your School or TAFE:

• Don’t panic – Be reassured that asbestos that is properly managed represents a negligible health risk; and
• Immediately advise the School Principal / College Director.

The School Principal / College Director will:

• See if the material has already been identified in the Asbestos Register (usually located in the main administration area);
• Isolate the immediate area in instances where the material has not previously been identified or where the condition of the material has deteriorated;
• Contact the Department’s Regional Asset Management Unit on 132 779 as soon as possible; and
• Communicate to all affected staff, students and the school / TAFE community as required how the identified hazard is being managed.

The Regional Asset Management Unit will:

• Arrange inspections and testing if necessary;
• Arrange treatment or removal of material if required; and
• Advise when the area can be returned to normal use.

The School Education Director will (for Schools Only):

Assist the School Principal and Asset Management Unit in the communication and management of the asbestos issue on site.

Hope this helps. There is much more (in the links) but it's secret from the public.
Graham