has OH&S gone overboard

OH&S in my opnion is getting way out of hand.

i use a chainsaw or my job on and off for no more than 2 mins at a time about every 10 mins. if i was to put on the saftey gear that is required by the OH&S rules everytime i went to start the saw i would get half as much done in a day as i curently do. or i could wear it the whole time and get really realy hot.

also when doing weed spraying i am required to wear a full body plastic suit, rubber boots, rubber gloves, facemask, and full face shield, and non of this can be used more tha once. this would cost me a fortune as well as restricting my movement making me verry hot and reducing my view.

ofcorse i follow these rule exactly:U

so what do you think?

P.S. there was suposed to be a poll at the top but i forgot it.

YES.

I belong to a service club which has been meeting and working for over 50 years. In that time we've probably held thousands of barbecues whilst fund-raising, and never killed anyone.

Now we get all these BS orders from councils that we have to have training programs, and food safety programs, and enough rules, regulations and red tape to choke a wood chipper. It just isn't fun any more, and it is hardly worth the effort.

I reckon we need a rolling campaign of civil disobedience. For example, one one day of the year I'd like to see every service club set up an "illegal" barbecue in the busiest street in town. Let the b*stards go ahead and prosecute ... we'll either choke up the courts, or show them for the small minded safety nutters and Nazis that they are.

In other words, let's tell 'em to get stuffed.

YES

My FIL, had to implement stupid OH&S on his farm, now even his kids can't go within a certain area of his tractor or farm bikes without first doing OH&S, or the cattle yards, or in his shed. He enforces it because one day they might just spring a visit. It's all gone too far, but some pencil pusher sitting behind a desk has deemed it the way it has to be.

I know what I'd like to do with them..

:minigun:

Soon none of your kids will be able to go within cooee of your own backyard suburban shed. Litigation and lawyers also have a lot to answer for it.

Well you've got to cater for the lowest common denominator, don't you?

The problem is that there are a couple of types of people out there who make all this stuff difficult: people who don't have a lot of common sense/are desperate/just not very bright; and people who take advantage of them. Without all these laws, some employers are happy to send their employees into dangerous situations without the proper gear.

If you're making the decision about safety gear for yourself and it affects no-one else, well fair enough. But how do we know you're competent to make a call on it? You might be one of group a) above for all we know. So do we let you go off and do something silly, potentially damaging someone else's property or person or injuring yourself and contributing to the backlog in the medical and legal systems? Or do we implement laws that require safety gear to be used across the board?

As for the club functions and so on, I agree totally, it's ridiculous. Unfortunately a lot of that is insurance-driven. People injure themselves through stupid actions and sue the club. Have seen it happen. One lady I know of fell down some stairs during a function, sued the club, was paid out, then fell down the same stairs several months later. Some people just shouldn't be allowed out of doors.

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Originally Posted by silentC

One lady I know of fell down some stairs during a function, sued the club, was paid out, then fell down the same stairs several months later. Some people just shouldn't be allowed out of doors.

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See that would have me wondering if the design of that set of stairs was a problem. Perhaps only linked with a particular vision impairment, or perhaps linked to shadows that are cast over the staircase at a particular time of day. I guess what I am trying to say is that the stairs may not be dangerous to all people, or at all times but that fact that someone fell down them twice means it could be the stairs rather than the person. It could also be something else in the environment that is really the problem (a shadow on the top step renders it nearly invisible and somebody misses it e.g.)

Peter

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Originally Posted by petersemple

See that would have me wondering if the design of that set of stairs was a problem. Perhaps only linked with a particular vision impairment, or perhaps linked to shadows that are cast over the staircase at a particular time of day. I guess what I am trying to say is that the stairs may not be dangerous to all people, or at all times but that fact that someone fell down them twice means it could be the stairs rather than the person. It could also be something else in the environment that is really the problem (a shadow on the top step renders it nearly invisible and somebody misses it e.g.)

Peter

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Whereas I would be looking closely at that person and wondering where else she "fell over"

When I did my OH&S training course years ago. The main impression I got from the trainer was that these rules are there to make any workers comp claims more difficult.

Basically he was saying that if you have an accident and cant prove that you did "everything reasonable" to prevent or reduce the likelyhood of that accident .....you were stuffed.

Applying that idea to some of the jobs that I have been asked to do by employers over the years....simply they would just not have got done. Because it became too cost prohibitive due to the extra man hours and equipment needed to do "everything resonable" to reduce the likelyhood of an accident.

cheers
BD:)

Maybe we should go the other way ... a few more deaths from "OH&S" factors might be a good thing:

* Reduce the pressure on scarce national resources like water
* Reduce the pressure on government infrastructure like hospitals, transport, etc.
* (and for most of the idiots who caused this overload) raise the national IQ

Death through stupidity is God's way of cleaning up the gene pool.

For some people, retrospective abortion laws should have been introduced (especially OH&S pencil pushers).

Hope there's none on the forum.

Steve (bugger should have changed my name)

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Originally Posted by Gra

Whereas I would be looking closely at that person and wondering where else she "fell over"

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Either is possible. It could be the person, could be the stairs, or could be an interaction between the two. You just can't make the assumption that the person was at fault from the info given (but you also can't make the assumption that it wasn't her fault either...

Peter

what can I say. I am a cynic :shrug:

As far as we know, she's the only person to ever fall down them. Well lit, large, sweeping. She's certainly the only person to ever fall down twice.

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Originally Posted by Gra

what can I say. I am a cynic :shrug:

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One person's cynic is another's realist

Peter

i hate OH&S.!!!

they make life so much more annoying:(

Best treatment for an OH&S inspector is to accidental back over them once .......... or twice. :o:roll::;

Advantages of a backhoe is you can dig a nice hole for their vehicle.

A few years ago there was a report of a police officer who fell down the same set of steps 12 times:doh: got a pay out every time.:((:((

I agree. Many OHS regs are butt paper covering exercises and don't really contribute to real safety.

BUT if you know anyone who works in an hospital emergency ward and you hear how many ning-nongs are out there you can understand why some of these things are done.

A couple of weeks back I posted this - in case you didn't read it;

************************************************
Extracted from http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/Other/DHS01.pdf

Did you know that ladders, lawn mowers and grinders are the most common tool in use when which DIY injuries happen!

What I find surprising is the sheer lack of any PPE use.
Only 14% of people injured using grinders were wearing ANY PPE!
With Circular saws only 24% were wearing ANY PPE, while chainsaws have the highest PPE use it was still only 29%. This includes the wearing of ANY PPE, so although 24% of people using circular saws were wearing some PPE, only 13% of people were wearing face protection!

Only one in 10 people that own a power tool actually own any PPE.

The most common injuries are foreign body in eyes (15%), finger cuts (14%), hand cuts (5%)

Top 5 tools/events resulting visiting an emergency care facility are
Grinders, lawnmowers, ladders, motor vehicle maintenance and welders.

Top 5 for hospital admissions
Ladders, lawnmowers, power saws, circular saws and motor vehicle maintenance

Top 5 for death
Electrical Maintenance, Ladders, Tractors, Backhoes and Trees

i must admit i dont ever use any protection when using powertools i dont personaly see a need to. i also remove gards off of tools so they are easyer to use.

i do like to wear long sleaved shirt when grinding but thats cos the sparks anoy the ??????? outa me.

i dont wear shoes in the workshop, i will wear earmufs when using the planer for extended priods.

i wear earmuffs when using the chainsaw mill (not general sawing at work) i also wear tehm when using the whipersnipper and tractor for more that 10 mins. i wear long pants when wippersniping also but that is as far as my "PPE" goes.

i am going threw the training at the moment to be coverd by the fire brigades OH&S when at a fire. and it has taken us 2 years of 1st tueasdays and finaly the final test is on friday and i am sick to death of all the BS. it asthow they dont want volenters.

Geez, Weisyboy, perhaps we DO need some laws after all ... or at least someone to knock a bit of sense into your head!

* Guards off tools? Count your fingers while you may.
* No shoes? Don't ever drop a chisel or an axe.
* No eye protection? Well, at least you won't have to worry about too much masturbation making you blind.

I guess the choice is yours, but I think you're taking it to extreme.

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Originally Posted by weisyboy

i
i wear earmuffs when using the chainsaw mill (not general sawing at work) i also wear tehm when using the whipersnipper and tractor for more that 10 mins.

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Wait till you get to my age and the Tinnitus motorbike catches up to you then you will get annoyed.

not working now when i was oh&s is a far better negiotion tool than working to rule as in early union days and i only sat on my bum driving iron ore trains for about 28yrs.oh&s is a way of giving someone with no experience a job because of a few letters after a name.

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Originally Posted by weisyboy

i must admit i dont ever use any protection when using powertools i dont personaly see a need to. i also remove gards off of tools so they are easyer to use.

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Hang on - you just contradicted yourself below - what do you think ear muffs are? :doh:

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i do like to wear long sleaved shirt when grinding but thats cos the sparks anoy the ??????? outa me.

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Well that is a start but a bare minimum is goggles or a face shield on a grinder - go ask any emergency hospital work what DIY accident they see most of. Also some sound frequencies from grinders are worse than chainsaws so if you wear muffs when using a CS you should wear them for grinding.

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i dont wear shoes in the workshop,

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No comment.

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i will wear earmufs when using the planer for extended priods.

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now you got the idea! :2tsup:

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i wear earmuffs when using the chainsaw mill (not general sawing at work) i also wear tehm when using the whipersnipper and tractor for more that 10 mins. i wear long pants when wippersniping also but that is as far as my "PPE" goes.

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Well that's a lot more than many people do so you are definitely in the PPE user camp. I've seen people in thongs and t-shirt and a fag and nothing else cutting fire wood for hours - My dad ended up virtually completely deaf from using chainsaws in the 50's and 60's without muffs until it was too late - thing was he loved classical music and in the end he said it all sounded like mud.

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i am going threw the training at the moment to be coverd by the fire brigades OH&S when at a fire. and it has taken us 2 years of 1st tueasdays and finaly the final test is on friday and i am sick to death of all the BS. it asthow they dont want volenters.

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Did they ask you to volunteer ? They are only doing their job - not everyone is as good as you are Carl at avoiding accidents in the workplace and as honourable at not taking them to court afterwards. Even if you could sign a complete disclaimer that if things go pear shaped you won't sue them if you are not wearing any PPE, it wouldn't hold water in court.

Heres a good OH &s example.

I run a home maintenance business. My public liability insurance requires me to take due care when working espacially at heights.

Now, on a commercial site, i.e, large building with all the safety systems in place, If I work at height I need to wear a harness which is part of a roofers safety kit. These sites have spots all over the place to tie the rope to that is attatched to my harness to stop me falling off the roof.

In all the years I've worked on privately owned house's I've not once seen a tie-off point read large ring fixed to roof let alone a fixing point that I can get to without going against the regulations for working at heights. I made mention of this to my insurance broker one day to which she replied, UH?

Alot of the OH & S regs now days are a good thing for peoples immediate and long term health but some of the rules just havent had alot of thought put to them. They seem to be a knee-jerk reaction to a situation, not a well thought out fix to the problem.

As a qualified cabinet maker I've worked in factories where it was impossible to see from one end of the factory to the other because of the dust in the air. One place had a 4 sided spindle moulder with no extraction system, for twelve months we worked around 4 heaps of shavings sometimes 10 feet high.

I wouldnt want to go back to the old days but I wished alot of the new regs would actually make sense in the real world.

Just my thoughts.

Ross.

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Alot of the OH & S regs now days are a good thing for peoples immediate and long term health but some of the rules just havent had alot of thought put to them. They seem to be a knee-jerk reaction to a situation, not a well thought out fix to the problem.

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At work (where I line manage over 100 people) we have some pretty dangerous things, as well as a mechanical workshop, we have lasers, radioactive stuff and x-ray gear, 20kV+ equipment, and chemicals that can seep through your skin and turn bones into jelly, and one drop of can turn a eyeball into a rock. We have what I think are sensible safe work practices but stuff still happens, one guy had a shape of the letter "L" permanently burned into his retina from moving his head through the reflection of a laser beam, one guy cut his thumb off with a bandsaw, and one guy burnt the skin off his family jewels with a liquid nitrogen burn. Each time we reviewed what happened and where appropriate have put new safety protocols into place. We document this according to the rules and can demonstrate all the paper trails needed.

But apparently that is not good enough. Now the bureaucrats and state public servants (Who haven't got much of a clue) have got their hands on OHS and we have to deal with the most bewildering regulations on matters that we have never had a problems with before, which just takes away from the real problems we want to address. For example every container that holds a chemical (even air is considered a chemical) now has to be labelled, the coffee powder in the staff room, the shampoo in the showers and the detergent under the staff room sink. We have hundreds of bottles containing ultrapure water in freezers - "where are the labels"? is continually asked.

Now we have a new rule coming in that no one can work alone! This one really gives me the pips as most of us work alone from time to time, some a lot more than others.

Also if we work at home we have to have our home inspected for OHS as well and guess who has to do the preliminary assessment? Of course I have nothing else to do than visit 100 peoples houses to look at their working conditions. By comparison, wearing earmuffs and a face shield when using a grinder suddenly makes a lot of sense.

So how do we change it to be practical or do we keep accepting the lobby and minority groups controlling us with their views?
We are being controlled by fear (on many fronts) and financial ruin through legistlation so why are we not questioning the practicalities. There needs to be a balance in the system. We used to fight for our rights but this is sadly disappearing.
Not a rant just an observation on how things are changing.

i agree rod

Practicality? You do your darndest to be sure you are safe and others around you are safe. If you are not going to follow all the OH&S rules and regs, then if something happens, don't bl*****y winge about it, but accept the responsibility that is yours in the matter. For example, if I do not wear safety glasses and a chip of timber lands in my eye, as did happen last Sunday:doh:, then it is my own stupid fault for not wearing the glasses. If I had been wearing glasses, you would have heard me winging from dusk till dawn. OK maybe not the best example, but you get my drift.


Yes, we do have OH&S staff as members here. Just remember too, that they are also in a difficult position too, between the laws and us. :compress:

All this talk of OH&S principles laws etc and still people go to work smashed, off their faces.:doh: and these are the people who are writting and producing these laws.

But hey a UNI degree and year 12 education says you have more brains.

Boss demanding people come to work with flu's which dull the senses, those who are on over the counter drugs which clearly state not to operate any machinery this includes driving not to mention prescribed drugs which can do even worse.:roll:

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i must admit i dont ever use any protection when using powertools i dont personaly see a need to. i also remove gards off of tools so they are easyer to use.

i dont wear shoes in the workshop

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Sorry mate but you're exactly the type of person that has caused these rules to be introduced. So you've got no-one to blame but people like yourself who are too stubborn or stupid or whatever to do the right thing. Do you really think not wearing shoes in a workshop is a smart thing? Mate, I would not brag about that on a public forum because it doesn't reflect on you too well.

Sometimes I just shake my head in wonder....

so thats the annoying sound I keep hearing

Is it a rattling sound, like the ball in a can of spray paint?

Been following this thread....wanted to share a puzzling one.....

OH&S required us(a few years ago...when hubby was still alive)to do a safety course to allow us on site.....(CleaningBusiness)...
On attending...9 people.....7 who...could NOT understand English....but worked for a larger company....who were obligated to send them....NO....they didn't have to understand one word.....BUT...hey guess what?..... they all knew how much money/per hour they got!

I didn't understand...that old saying.....about rules & laws...some rules are made to be broken.....wow....the big companies surely know what that means...don't they?

A small business competes against large companies that pay the same for twenty workers under Public Liability as we did for just one of us....but the best is yet to come.....

....the shopping centre's policy required us to have all work completed before public were allowed into the building.....ie...we had to be out by 6.30am....but to have the privillege to work there we had to pay $900 + a year to come into the building...when our work was outside windows!!!
Public Liability to work for when public were excluded....????
Much like.... buying shoes for someone with no feet!:doh:

It came as no supprise.... to find out...only recently....who owned the larger cleaning company....LOL....the Shopping Centre Owners.....the ones who wanted us to be safe...but didn't care if their workers understood anything!
You ask just one of them(cleaners today) where a phone is....where to ring for an ambulance, where the nearest fire extinguisher is....where is the nearest first aide box....& what should they do...a code...blue or yellow if someone has a heart attack while their working.....NO...they don't understand ENGLISH!!!!

Still wondering....???:cool:

WOW..dont even start me on some people getting a drivers liecence.....who can't speak ENGLISH but are entitled to have their interpreter take the exam for them....that's a nightmare!

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Sorry mate but you're exactly the type of person that has caused these rules to be introduced. So you've got no-one to blame but people like yourself who are too stubborn or stupid or whatever to do the right thing. Do you really think not wearing shoes in a workshop is a smart thing? Mate, I would not brag about that on a public forum because it doesn't reflect on you too well.

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i take full ersponsability for anything that happens to me if i drop a bloudy hammer on my tow its my fault not the blanke who made the hammer handle.

i have had my fair share of acadents as some of you will know but i dont intend to let that stop me doing what i love.

problems related to safter equipment include

saftey glases - block periferal vision and become foged and dirty quickly. if you cant see what you are doing then you are mutch more likely to make a mistake

long pants and long ???? - can easily be caught by machinery. i have had a shirt sleve get caught in a post hole borer bnd rip it of my back

chainsaw chaps - reduce mobility dramaticly witch is not good whne running from a tree or moveing round amongst fallen brances. they also have lose straps that can eaily become caught in machinery.

gloves - can get caught in macinery, the reduce the bility of the hands to grip and reduce fealing.

boots - most work boots are mutch to big heavy making it hard to move around easily.



in teh fire brigade they even go as far as to tell you that you must wear cotton underpants or you arn coverd by the insurance. not if the fire is hot enough to ment your undies threw fire retardant overalls then i think your in truble anyway.

i got an email last night saying that the rules have now changed and ppe must not be worn inside the prep room mess area of office of the fire station. now our station is one big shed this means we have to get changed everytime we enter the shed. and must wear a second pair of clotes uner the uniform. on top of this the trucks must be parked in teh shed and we cant enter a truck without ppe so when acking the trucks into the shed we must be wearing out ppe but cant get out of the truck into the shed untill we have taken it off:?

weisyboy, I reckon your heart is in the right place, but your head just needs a bit of re-alignment :)

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Originally Posted by Ron Dunn

Maybe we should go the other way ... a few more deaths from "OH&S" factors might be a good thing:

* Reduce the pressure on scarce national resources like water
* Reduce the pressure on government infrastructure like hospitals, transport, etc.
* (and for most of the idiots who caused this overload) raise the national IQ

Death through stupidity is God's way of cleaning up the gene pool.

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:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

I couldn't agree more.

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most work boots are mutch to big heavy making it hard to move around easily.

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Sorry mate but there's no excuse for going barefoot into a workshop, I don't care how tough you think you are.

You complain about all the OH&S laws but you're actually prepared to do what most people would think is a dumb thing. It puts things into perspective a bit. You obviously think you are bullet proof and so you don't need all these pencil necked paper pushers telling you what to do. I was like that when I was 18 but fortunately I've developed a bit of sense since then. I used to work as a glazier and in summer I hated wearing boots, so I wore thongs. How bloody stupid was that? I was no hero, I was an idiot. I walked out of there with all my toes not because of how tough I was but in spite of how stupid I was.

The problem is that if/when you do cut off a toe or something, you're going to be a burden on the hospital system and your family until you're up and running again - when it's an easily preventable scenario. Maybe the problem is that you haven't tried the right brand of boot. I wear Redbacks all day every day and they're very comfortable and light and a damn sight safer than bare feet!

This is why we need OH&S laws: to force people like you to do the right thing. The fact it has gone overboard is a real issue but if we didn't have fools running around thinking they're immortal, we probably wouldn't have needed them at all.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Sorry mate but there's no excuse for going barefoot into a workshop, I don't care how tough you think you are.

You complain about all the OH&S laws but you're actually prepared to do what most people would think is a dumb thing. It puts things into perspective a bit. You obviously think you are bullet proof and so you don't need all these pencil necked paper pushers telling you what to do.

The problem is that if/when you do cut off a toe or something, you're going to be a burden on the hospital system and your family until you're up and running again - when it's an easily preventable scenario. Maybe the problem is that you haven't tried the right brand of boot. I wear Redbacks all day every day and they're very comfortable and light and a damn sight safer than bare feet!

This is why we need OH&S laws: to force people like you to do the right thing. The fact it has gone overboard is a real issue but if we didn't have fools running around thinking they're immortal, we probably wouldn't have needed them at all.

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Originally Posted by silentC

I wear Redbacks all day every day and they're very comfortable and light and a damn sight safer than bare feet!

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:whs:

Personally I prefer Blundstones, but then I have never tried redbacks cos I have never felt the need to change.:U

Just a point for Ron Dunn.

I don't think it is possible to raise the National IQ. I was under the impression that by definition the average IQ is always 100. This applies equally to Canberra and everywhere else. In other words I think it is standardised.

I know what you mean though and agree.

Carl, it sounds like you need to learn something some basic risk management. Every action has a negative consequence but the risk of not wearing the PPE you refer to below, is usually greater and in some cases much greater than wearing them.

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Originally Posted by weisyboy

saftey glases - block periferal vision and become foged and dirty quickly. if you cant see what you are doing then you are mutch more likely to make a mistake

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I agree, but it sounds to me like you need to get yourself a good face shield. I have the full wrap around with orange head piece, $30 from mitre 10 - excellent peripheral vision. I now use it with the chainsaw, angle grinder, TS etc all the time.

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long pants and long ???? - can easily be caught by machinery. i have had a shirt sleve get caught in a post hole borer bnd rip it of my back

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It's not the fact that they are long pants or sleeves, the issue is looseness. Maybe you are like me - live in shorts and T-shirts but at the right time like welding etc long pants just make sense.

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chainsaw chaps - reduce mobility dramaticly witch is not good whne running from a tree or moveing round amongst fallen brances. they also have lose straps that can eaily become caught in machinery.

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For a start you should know running away from falling trees is an absolute no-no. Secondly, people that wear chaps have far fewer CS accidents than those that don't (maybe it's because they are the sort of people that wear them are safety minded to begin with) and when they do have an accident it's usually a minor one. The research done on this is pretty clear all over the world. In an article called, "New Zealand Logging Industry Accident Reporting Scheme Focus for a Human Factors Research Programme", a clear graph is shown where in 1983, chainsaw cuts to the leg accounted for 29% of all reported CS accidents, to 1986 where this value was only 8%. The principal cause of this substantial reduction in chainsaw injuries to the leg is primarily due to the introduction and widespread use of protective legwear during this 3 year period". This is very hard to argue with.

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gloves - can get caught in macinery, the reduce the bility of the hands to grip and reduce fealing.

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True - this has been discussed elsewhere, but the overall risks when using things like Welders and some machinery says you run a greater risk of hand injury by not wearing gloves. As a CS operator have you experience white finger yet Carl? It's most unpleasant and dangerous and a pair of good gloves reduces this significantly

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boots - most work boots are mutch to big heavy making it hard to move around easily.

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No comment. I assume you at least wear thongs when using a chainsaw?

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Originally Posted by silentC

Sorry mate but there's no excuse for going barefoot into a workshop, I don't care how tough you think you are.

You complain about all the OH&S laws but you're actually prepared to do what most people would think is a dumb thing. It puts things into perspective a bit. You obviously think you are bullet proof and so you don't need all these pencil necked paper pushers telling you what to do. I was like that when I was 18 but fortunately I've developed a bit of sense since then. I used to work as a glazier and in summer I hated wearing boots, so I wore thongs. How bloody stupid was that? I was no hero, I was an idiot. I walked out of there with all my toes not because of how tough I was but in spite of how stupid I was.

The problem is that if/when you do cut off a toe or something, you're going to be a burden on the hospital system and your family until you're up and running again - when it's an easily preventable scenario. Maybe the problem is that you haven't tried the right brand of boot. I wear Redbacks all day every day and they're very comfortable and light and a damn sight safer than bare feet!

This is why we need OH&S laws: to force people like you to do the right thing. The fact it has gone overboard is a real issue but if we didn't have fools running around thinking they're immortal, we probably wouldn't have needed them at all.

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i have blundstones 3 pairs one i wear when working one for horse rideing and a going out pair the are mighty comfortable but when i come home from work after wearing tehm all day my feet need a bit of fresh air so i take them off and go about my business. they stink enough as it is.

and i do not think im imortal but as iv said befor im not gonna let things stop me doing what i love comfortably.