Renovationand Extension:$4210sqm

Howdy, I promise this will be my last post for a week! Just one last thought........

My house is an old double brick clinker and is presently 106.5sqm and I intend to renovate and extend it out (but not up)with a weatherboard extension. The new house will be 144.4 sqm, an increase of 38 sqm and will require a total replumb. New kitchen,living area, bathroom and bedroom, all painted in and out - basically a house. But nothing fancy it is not architecturally designed or anything.

I will be supplying all fittings, doors windows tiles and getting a kitchen crew to build and install my kitchen. My query is that my quotes from the builders (which of course exclude the above) have been ranging from $140,000 to $186,000 (Melbourne is boomtown at the moment).

So I guess I am interested in what other people are getting quoted and also on any advice about how to choose the right builder. None of my friends knew any to recommend so I feel a bit of a loser with the whole process. I am a nurse so this is (like most people I guess) totally out of my area of expertise and I admit making me a wee bit anxious. Yet I do think (hope) most professionals need and want to do a good job. Anyway I would be most grateful if you have any comment to make. Thankyou:doh:

Dombat,

Whatever you do don't pay that much! OMG NO!!

For that money you're better off selling the house and buying a bigger one.

We have just added a 55 square metre weatherboard extension for $17,000. Thats seventeen not one hundred and seventy. Seventeen. That also included windows, doors, paint, tiles, flooring etc. We paid around $11,000 for an amazing timber kitchen including all appliances and had it totally replumbed and rewired.

Shortly we'll move onto the bathroom/laundry reno and expect to spend no more than $10,000.

We did however go owner builder, doing most of the work ourselves but the difference between what it cost us and what they're quoting you is ridiculous. You simply wont be adding that much value to your house by spending it on the renovation. (1st trap for home renovators) Always look at what you're spending and what that converts to if you were to sell the house. If you can afford that sort of money for a tiny 38 sqm extension (basically 2 very small rooms) then buy another house instead.

Also, and the guys here will testify plenty that paying lots of money doesnt guarantee a good job. There are plenty of dodgy builders out there that dont have your best interests at heart. If you do choose a builder make sure you see their work, talk to people that they've done work for and for goodness sake dont spend that much.


Sonja

when builders see you all they see is $$$$$$$$$$...do your homework, it'll save you thousands ...get independant quotes from three different , sparkies, plumbers, carpenters , tilers etc ....plan out the attack .....and organise it yourself ...by the sounds of it thats all the "builder" was going to do anyway....that price is rediculous

Dombat,

Sonja said everything I thought when I read your post.

It is concerning then...I thought as much...it is just that it only leaves me with limited options..I can't go owner builder as let's face the truth I doubt I would have anymore luck with the individual tradies...it would just be a slow death of a thousand cuts...I was hoping someone would say that the high cost was just a reflection of the huge demand for builders at the moment in Melbourne...but it seems that is not the case? At the moment I still am not sure what to do....surely not all 5 builders that I have had quotes on were blood suckers? What are the odds of that?...I will keep you informed of my decision process ... thankyou so much for you're feedback:doh:

Dombat,

It wasnt that the 5 builders were blood suckers although they probably took into account that you had no idea and could charge what they liked. What they're basically saying is that they dont want the job. they overquote small jobs like yours as they find them fiddly and not worth the trouble so set a price high enuff that if you say yes, and they have to do it then they're laughing!

Sonja

hello,

I think 5 quotes is reasonable,

many considerations need to be looked at, site access, quality, materials used we probably dont know full details,

electrical(data, etc) that is going into the house,

by all means tackle it as an owner builder and see what happens, people have a right to earn what they like

thankyou

myla

I am still considering my options....I don't know if I mentioned this but it took me 3 years to get my plans through planning because even though it is just a very ordinary clinker it has now got a heritage overlay on it...3 yearsssss!....anyway I am seeking further advice on the matter...thinking of going to a crowd called contract check who may be able to tell me a bit more about this building game and of course becoming an owner builder and project managing it...I just can't come at the sell option yet but I have a feeling that may well be what I do. I really am very grateful for the reality check you have all given me....thankyou By the way Myla there were no fancy bits going in like a movie surround sound thing etc But it did include the removal of a load bearing wall and two old doorways to be hardplastered over...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dombat

Howdy, I promise this will be my last post for a week! Just one last thought........

But nothing fancy it is not architecturally designed or anything.

**you are now telling us it has heritage overlay

I will be supplying all fittings, doors windows tiles and getting a kitchen crew to build and install my kitchen.

** if you are supplying this stuff you are well onto owner-building
Thankyou:doh:

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hello,

I can only suggest getting some more quotes, try the heritage society as well

thankyou

myla

Howdy
Look just an update to keep all you poteintal renovators in reality mode. I have asked around a lot....and the consensus appears to be $200,000 for anytype of ground floor renovation or extension. Friends of friends had a job done of renovating their house with changing location of bathroom and kitchen etc $200,000 another are just extending out and putting a kitchen in $200,000....so my quotes are reflecting the current market out there.

Still today I am going to investigate the option of project managing and try and work out what I could save if I did it that way. We shall see..

price will depend on what the builder includes in his quote... many extension builders will design, engineer, pass through council and construct. they employ there own draftsmen, contract administrators, engineers, estimators, building staff etc so this is reflected in their price. you have to compare apples with apples when it comes to quotes for building work

The extension you are looking at seems almost exactly the same to what we did.

The total cost for us as owner/builders was $140,000 or about $1,300 per sqm.

The quotes from builders (in 2005/6) were coming in at around $2,000 to $2,500 per sqm. Personally I wouldn't underestimate your own ability and would investigate the owner/builder option - but that is just IMHO.

Our reno

I think I'd agree with the possible differences in inclusions on the quoted price.
Another option you might like to try is contacting a building / quantity surveyor. They'll have a good idea of cost and quantities needed, and likely possibly the effort needed by the builder.
In Tassie at least, working on a heritage listed building, whatever the changes you're looking at, the builders would be adding a very significant premium to the price.

$2000 p/m2 is about standard unless its a wet area. Obviously if you go ballistic on fittings and finishes it will be more.

$1300 p/m2 for owner builder sounds about right. Same again though. If you go gold flooring obviously the price rockets.You have to get trades.

Builders get the materials a lot cheaper.

You also have to have time off to manage the project. You may have to do things at any one time of the day.

If you dot no have some building knowledge then it can be disaster. Some banks will specify a building supervisor to oversee the project.

Many owner builders over spend budget by 20%. They cant get any more money off the bank and the bank cant sell an unfinished house.

Get 3 quotes for a budget estimate on everything off trades. Book em in and keep them in touch with the progress. Let them know whats happening so they can coordinate a scheduled start not sit at at home and wait for the materials to arrive. Some trades need 2 weeks notice some only days.
Do not rely on stated times of material delivery.

Do not throw all trades on job at once. Its not backyard blitz and theres coordinated stepped visits for each trade. eg: roof cover cannot go on while roof carpenter is building roof. Ask if you wish t have another trade on site at the same time.
There is safety issues with this also. Danger!

Don't ring them the week before you need them if you haven't got a prior quote.

Thats how jobs blow out to multiple years.

You want coordinated timing not unorganised chaos.

Ask trades if you can do anything for them. Eg: clean up. Job goes faster. If they are respectable they have time to do a better job. Everyones happy. Win win.

Some times a mid strength beer on end of first day (ask, not all trades drink) is a good ice breaker for discussion and Q&A.

You don't have to suck just some respect, a drink, team building and communication goes a long way to a better smoother running job.

Stick to the budget. There will be less cost blow outs and smoother flow faster finish.

Run a pre schedule in Microsoft project and a live one. Allow a week interval for each trade as a buffer.
Things never go to plan and inevitably change.
Change your schedule2 live according to how the reschedule occurs. Take all trades and works into consideration not just the ones you can think of.

Plan, plan, plan. Don't stab in the dark for disaster.

Get good drawings. The devil is in the detail. Trades need to know what they are quoting on.

Be on the job every day. Ring once a day. If there is a problem. "Ask" immediately.
May the force be with you :)

I forgot to mention having an excel budget from planning permission to final clean.
Do it as if you wont be doing any of it.

Run a "live" excel budget and track your money both expenses, materials and labour to cross check every day.

"Track your money!"

Ask about issues as they present themselves. Dont throw a hit list at them at the end when its too late. They might rip off their shirt to show you their fight with a circular saw to show that its not their first knife fight.

Don't judge a tradesman by their looks. Some of the best trades you'll ever meet look like their Seargent at Arms of the Hells Angels or straight out of the "One who flew over the Cuckoos nest".

Hi Dombat, It sounds like all the Noosa builders are going back to Melbourne LOL!

Those quotes do sound excessive to me but I know that builders will add dollars to the budget when any sort renovation on a heritage listing is involved.

If you are able to post some plans I might be able to see where the money is supposedly going.

Otherwise I would suggest you redesign the new area so it is not structurally attached to the house (a pod). In brisbane this has proven a popular way to increase/modernise living area while still retaing street presence and character of older houses. Generally the new area has state of the art living . kitchen, bath facilities connected to the old house by a covered walkway. The old part of the house is then sound proofed and air cond and turned into sleeping/ study areas with minor renovation work.

You can save mega bucks doing things this way becuase it is all new build. And get around various planning problems.

As a carpenter I often gave quotes to owner builders and I told them all to do a TAFE course on being an owner builder as it would give them the tools to overcome the pitfalls and give them the confidence to deal with trades (talk the talk:D)