problems with split system install

Printable View

8th February 2008, 01:51 PM
davo_scuba

problems with split system install

guy's.just had a panasonic 8.1 kw reverse a/c installed the pipe run was 10m (ish) we had a funny noise when we turn the unit on and after a few days the system started to not cool as desired, so I got the bloke back that had installed the unit he checked a few things then sprayed some stuff in which he said would stop a leak. (as this reacts with the air).Also said the there was still positive pressure in the unit so no air had got in. After this he then put some more 410 gas in to the correct pressure and said all was well, this happened last night the unit was working well last night for the time we had it on.The question I have is does anyone use this stuff that he sprayed in ??how safe is it to use ??what are the long term affects on the unit I have ???was this just a quick fix/she'll be right mate solution.The stuff was in a blue tin and was a throw away after the one charge (did not manage to catch the name and woogle has drawn a blank which is a worry.Any information would be appreciated.Davo
8th February 2008, 04:06 PM
Timmo

i've seen the stuff at Actrol but I only fix leaks the old fashioned way. You should really only use it when you really can't find the leak. Even though they claim it to be compatible, it still contaminates the oil.

Im concerned that is was to a new unit. Even though R410a is a near zeotropic blend, it's still a blend. He really should have recovered, leak tested with nitro, repaired and evacuated before setting it back to work.
9th February 2008, 05:24 AM
Learner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmo

i've seen the stuff at Actrol but I only fix leaks the old fashioned way. You should really only use it when you really can't find the leak. Even though they claim it to be compatible, it still contaminates the oil.

Im concerned that is was to a new unit. Even though R410a is a near zeotropic blend, it's still a blend. He really should have recovered, leak tested with nitro, repaired and evacuated before setting it back to work.

True
9th February 2008, 06:18 PM
sdrob

hello i have been in the trade for over 13 years never used the stuff and never will. as stated r410a is a blend, any loss of gas in a 400 range of gas is a blend and needs to be removed after a leak and discarded. as stated the system needed to be pressure tested with nitrogen at around 2000KPA for 24hours.. then properly evacuated and charged with new R410a. i would start to wonder after his current behaviour if he has even used the correct pipe and carried out the work properly..
9th February 2008, 08:56 PM
AV Elec

Quote:

Originally Posted by davo_scuba

Any information would be appreciated.Davo

This bloke is dodgy...
Where did you find him? Is he artick licensed? Have you paid?

That spray on stuff was not around when I was in the trade. Does anyone have a link?
10th February 2008, 12:06 AM
Timmo

It's not spray on, it's a dump in goop that is pushed into the system, much like the "no more leaks" for tyres.

It dries as it's pushed out of the pipework.
10th February 2008, 02:46 PM
rooster72

I agree - have only ever used this nasty stuff once in a friends car - worked for a few days and compressor seized....

I have been installing splits for many years now and find it difficult to believe that a tradie can be so bone idle lazy as to not trace a leak on a simple split.... it's not rocket science people...

What worries me is that the "installer" has used this in a brand new unit. This will surely void any future warranty claims if and when (actually definitely WHEN) the compressor fails?
10th February 2008, 03:50 PM
AV Elec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmo

It's not spray on, it's a dump in goop that is pushed into the system, much like the "no more leaks" for tyres.

It dries as it's pushed out of the pipework.

Doesn't sound like something I would recommend then...

I wonder what the manufactorer of split systems think? Do companies accept this in their systems, and still honor warrenties?
11th February 2008, 10:51 AM
davo_scuba

thanks for all the response

guys
Thanks for all your replys:2tsup: will try to get the bloke back round and discuss what we can do to rectify this situation, i really would like him to purge the pipes and correct the leak then refill with gas. (which is what he should do as we are see signs of poor cooling againg.(i will let you know how I go). one of those situations that you dread:no:.
cheers anyway even if it did start to go off topic :rolleyes:!!!
11th February 2008, 02:02 PM
DJ’s Timber

Have moved everything to the Help-Mouse ate my fujitsu split system head aircon electronics thread, as this is davo_scuba's thread and it is not fair for him to have wade through the whole thread to find what is relevant to his problem.

DJ
Super Moderator
Woodworking Australia's
WOODWORK FORUMS
11th February 2008, 09:01 PM
Tas_Dean

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooster72

I agree - have only ever used this nasty stuff once in a friends car - worked for a few days and compressor seized....

I have been installing splits for many years now and find it difficult to believe that a tradie can be so bone idle lazy as to not trace a leak on a simple split.... it's not rocket science people...

I totally agree. There are four connections that he had to leak test/re-flare or tighten flare if leaking. If he didn't find a leak on one of his four connections, then it's a warranty problem and Panasonic should repair/replace the unit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooster72

What worries me is that the "installer" has used this in a brand new unit. This will surely void any future warranty claims if and when (actually definitely WHEN) the compressor fails?

I've never seen the stuff, but it's a few years since I was doing refirigeration work, but I would be rather concerned about this sort of thing being put into a split system. I replaced several reversing valves in heat pumps, the crap surely wouldn't do them any good, let alone the capillaries and the compressor. I'd highly doubt that manufacturers would honour any warranties with any sort of "stop leak" goop.

Though it does sound like it would be handy for that last ditch attempt at keeping something running for another month or two!
11th February 2008, 09:08 PM
AV Elec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tas_Dean

Though it does sound like it would be handy for that last ditch attempt at keeping something running for another month or two!

Really handy for getting past the warrenty period:wink:

I'm sure the TX valve would love it also...
11th February 2008, 10:16 PM
Tas_Dean

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV Elec

Really handy for getting past the warrenty period:wink:

I'm sure the TX valve would love it also...

No Tx valve in a split, capillary tubing instead. But yes, I'm sure TX's would love goop.
12th February 2008, 12:08 AM
ajt

I'd guess that it would have been one of the super seal products, personally I have no experience with them.

you can find more info here on the applications/specs.

http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/products.php?catID=27
13th February 2008, 05:07 PM
Timmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tas_Dean

No Tx valve in a split, capillary tubing instead. But yes, I'm sure TX's would love goop.

Mostly EX valves in new units, capillaries in small constant speed splitties. especially with variable output compressors.

Also, we do not honour warranty on our equipment that has leak detection dye, leak lock (on HFC systems) and leak stop contamination.
20th February 2008, 12:11 PM
davo_scuba

fixed for good

Got the bloke back and discussed what course of action should be taken, in the end he found the leak (flare connection to the head unit not to happy as all this could have been sorted when he installed the unit). any way got him to purge and test with nitrogen, vac out and refill. i believe there was still some gas in the unit though which was not changed, but i will live with that as long as there are no leaks.Thank you all for your reponses and the link to stuff which he had sprayed in.reading the information for the stuff, it says that it should not cause too many problems.btw the bloke went up the Airle Beach to install a load of units up there last week so that should be fun for him, said he will pop in and check that all is going ok on his return.
22nd February 2008, 11:45 AM
davo_scuba

more trouble this time sparky

Gents,More trouble, the Electrical Contractor who installed the units got energex to upgrade the mains to the house, when they came round and did the up grade and switch the power back on the wires blew out the trip switch for the a/c unit. the energex bloke was going to cut us off saying we need to get the contractor back to fix this up and check all the wires as he had not done a simple tug test, but after see that we little fellas had a change of heart and checked it all and made SAFE, he was livid. what really annoys me is that anyone with half a brain and a bit of mechianal / electrical knowlege can wire up electrical items to the same quality as most sparkys, yet they all think that there s**t does not stink. phoned up the contractor and got "well that's unfortunate" too bloody right it is, if the house had gone up with the wife and kids.Thing is this bloke was not young and had been in the game for along time and charged like it as well.(which is a double whammy for us) to all the licenced electrical contractors of the brisbane area, I am looking to create a long trem reletionship with a trustworthy, honest, reliable, Electrician who can actually do a good job without cutting corners and can quote correctly. is there anyone around south brisbane (springwood) that fits this bill. pease email or send private message if you are shy.
22nd February 2008, 01:48 PM
Smurf

Best advice I can give for finding a good electrician is to avoid the very large contractors with lots of employees. They tend to be the "employer of last resort" where there's always a job available. High staff turnover, crap working conditions and nobody gives a damn as a result.

I know of one such contractor that literally requires their employees to phone the office to get permission to go to the toilet and where everything is timed with military-style precision. Obviously nobody working there is going to give a damn about anything other than getting paid with conditions like that.

I'd better be careful here and won't mention any names. But I'll just say "Myer Hobart" and leave it at that as far as the huge contractors are concerned. Google those two words if you don't know what happened to the store last year.

How to find a good one is harder. Anyone who has worked on traffic signals, aircraft, hazardous industrial process control etc would be pretty familiar with the concept of even minor mistakes not being tolerated since in that case it's absolutely a life and death issue with no second chance. Trouble is there aren't many such people about doing house wiring unless they were downsized etc back in the 1990's.

Other than that it's hit and miss.
22nd February 2008, 06:19 PM
Jack E

Quote:

Originally Posted by davo_scuba

what really annoys me is that anyone with half a brain and a bit of mechianal / electrical knowlege can wire up electrical items to the same quality as most sparkys, yet they all think that there s**t does not stink..

Nice call, don't ask any Sparky's on here for any more advice if that is the way you think.:((

Quote:

Originally Posted by davo_scuba

to all the licenced electrical contractors of the brisbane area, I am looking to create a long trem reletionship with a trustworthy, honest, reliable, Electrician who can actually do a good job without cutting corners and can quote correctly. is there anyone around south brisbane (springwood) that fits this bill. pease email or send private message if you are shy.

Good luck with that given your comment above, it certainly won't be me and I won't be recommending anyone either:((

If you have half a brain you won't need a Sparky anyway apparently.

Jack
25th February 2008, 11:56 AM
davo_scuba

Jack E

the point that i was trying to make without being to agravated was the fact that the contractor that i had paid good money for did not do a correct job, we nearly lost power for a unspecified length of time, when i tryed to talk to him about it all i got was a lip service. I feel that this just was not good enough for a late 40's tradesman, who's been in the game for a fair while (what i would have liked to have happened was him to come round quick smart and just check all his connections and see what the problem was).With regards to getting information off this site for electrical / technical i think most people gave up a few years ago!!! it's just not worth the barrage of emails. (even if it's only to get a idea of what you are paying for / what is actually being done / how it's done etc etc.Jack E thanks for not recommending anyone i feel that the travel allowance would probably be more than the jobs worth.sorry if I sound like i got on a soap box but with two very young kids I want everything protected and safe not only for them but for me aswell, thanks for your comments, your point of view has been taken.