New Reno Problems - Cant get a builder for a small job.....No one wants to work

Hi All,

Im new to the forums, well this is my first post, but I have been reading for quite some time now.

To give you a bit of a background, we are planning renovations in the near future, We live in Pine Rivers Council (Northside of BRisbane for those who do not know).

Our house is about 11 years old and has a detached Brick garage (built at same time as house).

As mum is alone now days (Sister is about to move out west and I have moved out long ago) we have decided to convert the Garage to a Granny flat and we will move in to her house(We been Myself, wife and two young kids) and she(mum) can have the granny flat.

We have spoken to our financial planner who has basically said, plan it get quotes come back to me and we will organise the finance.........We are happy to do work ourselves, having in previous houses, tiled, layed flooring, painted, layed concrete, paved and list goes on however, there is still certain things like, the two new "structural" walls and the slab etc we want done professionally....oh and the roofing but I will get to that soon.

The problem is we can not get anyone to come and have a look at it for us because in reality it is not a huge job. Obviously and before anyone says anything to the contrary PLUMBING AND SPARKIES I WILL BE EMPLOYING YOUR SERVICES TOO............(I wont be playing with that stuff myself)

I have attached a few photos below (although not the greatest and also a rough flooplan.
Basically to keep costs down, we have designed the new granny flat so that all plumbing can run through the external rear wall of the garage.
......and with the addition of two walls between the garage and house we also gain a 4th bedroom for the main house.

If anyone could assist us with any tips or tricks on getting builders to come and look give us some estimates it would be appreciated, I have literally called 18 since last tuesday....some never turned up and the rest are too busy or not interested in such a small project.

Perhaps there is someone semi-retired floating about or a building looking for a small job between slabs curing or something I dont know.

We will also be building carports, laying new driveway, and the roof has a few small leaks nothing major but because work will be completed on the roof line anyway we are considering swapping the entire roof to colourbond.

So our wish list is
So Colorbond roofing
House Rendering

Our essentials are
Garage conversion to granny flat
New bedroom addition

So wonderful helpful people of the forum.........help me:P I need builder that is willing to work on a small job.... :D

Have you thought about doing it as an owner builder? You can do as much of the work as you want/are allowed to and get in contractors for the rest.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Have you thought about doing it as an owner builder? You can do as much of the work as you want/are allowed to and get in contractors for the rest.

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Hi Silent

Yeah we certainly have, and possibly will, atleast so far as the internal non load bearing stuff, but basically the ladies(mum and wife) have said I am not aloud on the roof and they would rather the load bearing stuff be done professionally.

So That cuts the work down even further. SO i really only need a builder for the roofing, New external walls, slab etc......I guess....but the other consideration i guess is the finance considerations with owner builders, although so far the finance guy doesnt seem to preturbed by that.

It looks similar to my reno where I converted an attached garage to a rumpus room. I would get some plans done up by a draughtsman or the like and get it engineered. Then contact the relevant sub contractors:

Concreter
Electrician
Plumber
Bricklayer

to get quotes. Get a carpenter to quote you but you might find that getting a frame and truss mob to do you some wall frames and trusses/stick timber will be cheaper and to install is not a big problem.

I think the biggest cost will be the concreting, as you will more than likely need a new garage slab/overpour and a slab or footing for the new room.

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Originally Posted by Mattles

Hi Silent

Yeah we certainly have, and possibly will, atleast so far as the internal non load bearing stuff, but basically the ladies(mum and wife) have said I am not aloud on the roof and they would rather the load bearing stuff be done professionally.

So That cuts the work down even further. SO i really only need a builder for the roofing, New external walls, slab etc......I guess....but the other consideration i guess is the finance considerations with owner builders, although so far the finance guy doesnt seem to preturbed by that.

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I can't see your costs getting much over $20-25k
Mine cost less than $5k but there was no extra roofing and not concrete.

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Originally Posted by DvdHntr

I can't see your costs getting much over $20-25k
Mine cost less than $5k but there was no extra roofing and not concrete.

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Gee that would be nice.....we are working on a ball budget in the 50-60k range.....so once the fitout or kitchen and batch was done, then the girls will have to fight over reroofing entirley in colorbond or rendering i guess........

Your roofing needs to be done by a licensed contractor anyway. You would hire a roof plumber for that. As above, you will be able to get trusses and wall frames pre-fab (only way to get trusses that I know of anyway) and these will be covered by the engineering designs provided by the truss company. You basically give them your floor plan and they engineer them for you. Slab can be designed by an engineer, or you can sub the whole job out to a concreter - but council will want your engineer's drawings for the construction certificate.

Most important jobs for an owner builder are making sure the council/govt is kept happy, making sure your materials are on site when you need them, and getting the trades on site. You'll need some idea of the sequence of things beforehand so you can plan ahead.

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Originally Posted by silentC

............Most important jobs for an owner builder are making sure the council/govt is kept happy, making sure your materials are on site when you need them, and getting the trades on site. You'll need some idea of the sequence of things beforehand so you can plan ahead.

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This is true,

Pretty much we are thinking along the lines of the new slab >> new external walls >> Roof >>

This would basically give us the new bedroom, so that we have a little more room, and then we could concentrate on the fit out of the granny flat would this make sense?......

The other thing is getting a builder/contractor on siteto try and get some estimates......as I am sure we can agree it is a small job, and no one seems to be interested.

You'll probably have plumbing to rough in before the slab, unless you're going to run all the plumbing through the wall - P-trap toilet, raised shower etc. You'll also need to consider things like termite protection and waterproofing.

I think your first step is to get a design done. Then you can see what you need to do first. But even before that, I'd give council a call and ask to speak to a planner, then find out how favourably they look at this type of thing in your neck of the woods. Our council used to be very much against garage conversions. Hopefully they're a bit more open minded about it where you are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentC

..........I think your first step is to get a design done. Then you can see what you need to do first. But even before that, I'd give council a call and ask to speak to a planner, then find out how favourably they look at this type of thing in your neck of the woods. Our council used to be very much against garage conversions. Hopefully they're a bit more open minded about it where you are.

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Yeah with "The housing afforability" crisis yahdahyahdah it seems they dont mind, there have been a few in the area in the not so recent past, one even has a brick carport(replacing the now converted garage) on the boundry line because of it..................

Well I called the council and.....I just called the council and in their words, they are basically just record keepers now days, and so all I need to do is speak to building certifier to approve the plans and thats it........sounds simple or should I be worried?

I can understand why builders aren't interested in "smaller" jobs. When you phone them do you tell them it is just a small job and you will be doing a lot of stuff yourself ? You may have a much better success rate if you ask them to quote on the whole job.

They will also want to see detailed plans before quoting. When it comes to renovation and add ons - quoting can get tiresome, you have to visit the site, check availibilities, examine existing structures in detail etc , so for all your mucking around you at least want to think the client is serious and has plans drawn up.

The bottom line is that builders are likely booked out for 12 months + now around your area - New development around Bridgeman Downs has about 50 builders and gangs working flat out. 3,800 new residences have been approved in 4035 4034 postcodes alone with a mean build value of 280 k.

Under these conditions even trying to Owner Build in a reasonable timeframe is going to be a nightmare as the trades could well be on contract to local crews.

It may be best to contact builders who specialise in renovations.

As I understand it, there are two hurdles in the approval process - the Development Application which makes sure it is compliant with the local development guidelines; and the Construction Certificate which makes sure it is designed according to building and energy conservation standards. The latter part can be done by any building certifier - but I'd have thought the former would be in the domain of the town planning department (it was when I did mine 2 1/2 years ago).

Anyway, all you can do is put in your plans and see where it goes. I'd recommend you get a building designer or architect to do it for you - it will streamline the whole process and they'll generally know what is and isn't acceptable in your area.

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Originally Posted by Dirty Doogie

I can understand why builders aren't interested in "smaller" jobs. When you phone them do you tell them it is just a small job and you will be doing a lot of stuff yourself ? You may have a much better success rate if you ask them to quote on the whole job.

They will also want to see detailed plans before quoting. When it comes to renovation and add ons - quoting can get tiresome, you have to visit the site, check availibilities, examine existing structures in detail etc , so for all your mucking around you at least want to think the client is serious and has plans drawn up.

The bottom line is that builders are likely booked out for 12 months + now around your area - New development around Bridgeman Downs has about 50 builders and gangs working flat out. 3,800 new residences have been approved in 4035 4034 postcodes alone with a mean build value of 280 k.

Under these conditions even trying to Owner Build in a reasonable timeframe is going to be a nightmare as the trades could well be on contract to local crews.

It may be best to contact builders who specialise in renovations.

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Yeah I have explaining the project as a whole, I was given advice not to mention we may be doing work ourselves, way back when this project was just a twinkle in the eye so to speak.


As I have mentioned previously though isnt a small job an attractive thing though? I mean it is the sort of job that can be done between jobs, or between slabs and roof tiling or what ever do you get what I mean???

Trouble is you have to cart tools and stuff around from job to job. Better to get as much done as possible in one hit before moving on. The other problem is the mongrels wont come back. I made the mistake of letting the plasterers go to another job before mine was finished - do you think I could get them to come back and finish mine?

It's a shame you're in Brisbane because I actually know a guy who loves jobs like yours. The point is, they are around but they don't advertise - the bloke I know gets all his work through word of mouth. He works under an owner builder permit - so you do the paperwork and take the risk - he runs the job and charges a rate or a fixed price depending on the job. Someone like that would be perfect for you. Do you play golf? That's how I got onto him :)

Hi Mattles - quite a few of the "renovation specialist " builder types I know are cruisy guys who dont like the pressure of a contracted build, production managed trade sessions timed to the hour etc. generally these guys are pretty good at what they do and are often older. Trying to find one of these guys is hard - all the lads I know are also loosely booked out on ongoing work for 12 months also.

Injured my back in a car accident........hmmmmm ok....well saying they are around is enough to boost the confidence a little but gee this is kinda painful...........would be nice to get some recommendations.....thanks for all the help and advice so far.

I do see your point however about moving around and so on.....not the easiest thing with all the tools.....didnt really think too much about that

Hey Mattles - when could you be ready to start this work - I have someone in mind - liscenced who might be interested?

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Originally Posted by Dirty Doogie

Hey Mattles - when could you be ready to start this work - I have someone in mind - liscenced who might be interested?

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As soon as I have pricing to take to the financiers and the finance comes through so 8 - 12 weeks oh and rubber stamp from the certifier too

I'll make a phone call tonight - you dont mind a female builder do you? Yes she does wear shorts and tight tank tops! she lives at Aspley.

I'm just looking at your rough plan and pics again - the roof work looks like it is going to be substantial - have you a rough dawing or something showing the finished roof line? Trying to join two gable ends and lose a valley gutter - hmm. Me thinx about at least half of the existing house roof will have to come off. A flat roof over the connecting room would be cheaper I'd guess.

Also is there any reason why the new connecting room's rear wall isn't in line with the rear wall of the garage?

Hi DD,

Thanks for your offer to help with a referral to your builder friend....sorry for slow replay I had to go pick up the missus and dinner

I will uplaod a more detailed sketch after dinner to sown in a little more detail why the walls are where they are etc.. it is partly to do with the block of land......just sat down for it and Im getting slapped for turning on the laptop at the dinner table........**OUCH**.........that one hurt.....

As for a flat roof I had never ever thought about it. That actually makes sense, where would councils stand on this sort of thing? How would it be done.
I dont think I have even seen it done. But It sounds great.

you could try .......going to the pub ....have a beer with the barkeep and tell him you have a reno job if anyone is interested, and you could pay CASH.....rush job ....motherinlaw is moving in .....and I want to keep her happy .....if she is happy then so am I ........ok?.....here's my number ..:;

I can build anything, anything at all when I'm at the pub, just ask me. :2tsup:

I am just about to start the building, per se, of a similar project. I am not sure if this helps, but it may throw a different perspective on matters.

About three years ago we decided to build an office on top of the double garage. This is to be a professional suite so that I can practice from home (and pop down to the workshop below when a patient fails to pitch ... no, I promise I won't!). Essentially it would be a granny flat - well it could be to a future buyer if we sold the home, so it needed to be easily converted, with a main consulting room (bedroom) and waiting room (living room/kitchenette) and toilet (with shower).

Since we have a horror of additions that look like additions, we decided to consult an architect, who put together a great design, one that melded in with the remainder of the house. Prior to this we had met with a "designer" working with a building firm that specialised in add-ons, and he designed a box on top of the house. We said thank you , and moved on.

The original quotation was $75K. This did not include the finishes, such as interior painting, fitting of doors, laying of hardwood floors, bookcases, etc - all of which I figured I would do. The house is double brick, partly rendered, with a clay tile roof and WR Cedar windows and doors. The addition was to be a wooden structure.

Well ... then the architect buggered off overseas for 12 months ... as they do.. and we did not hear from him until he returned. By this stage we had almost lost interest in the project. Building costs had sky rocketed and builders were like hen's teeth ... even the shonky ones. The architect returned and contacted us to enquire if we were still interested. I suggested a new quote, ready to scrap the whole deal and not pay him for his drawings and I was sure his absence had cost us at least $100K (as building costs had doubled in that time). We changed a few things for the quote, this time adding in WR Cedar exterior cladding (this will look great against the existing woodwork), doors, and painting (including redoing all the exterior woodwork at the same time - 12 years in the hot WA sun creates havock with exterior finishes). We got the same builder in to quote (he comes highly recommended by a number of people) ... and then sat back with bated breath ..

The quote for the original specification came in at $85K, and with the additional items the grand total is $100K. This is more than we set out to pay 3 years ago, but in the current climate I reckon this is reasonable for what we are getting. And at least I can get some deductions off tax.

The job is going to take 8 months. I will get my garage/workshop back in 5 weeks. (Today I finished setting up enough tools on the rear veranda under the grape vine. The rest of the stuff went into a container at the roadside). Pictures will follow later.

My advice is that you speak with an architect, one with a good track record and one who can link in with a builder. Otherwise I am fearful that you will struggle to contract workers, and will have little control over whom you employ. You need a proper quotation.

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Originally Posted by Dirty Doogie

I'm just looking at your rough plan and pics again - the roof work looks like it is going to be substantial - have you a rough dawing or something showing the finished roof line? Trying to join two gable ends and lose a valley gutter - hmm. Me thinx about at least half of the existing house roof will have to come off. A flat roof over the connecting room would be cheaper I'd guess.

Also is there any reason why the new connecting room's rear wall isn't in line with the rear wall of the garage?

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Hi Dirty Doogie,

The wife nit picked the drawing a little so there are a few minor adjustments that i missed and a few extra details, you right about the rear wall, I made a booboo on the plans.

So I have reattached the hand drawn ones are a little more detailed, but my scanner is playing up and might be a day or so before I can get them on here. I have some minor drafting experience.... But Im no expert

I have also attached the block contours and an arieal view of the house/garage....ignore the grey in the middle was a shade gazebo we had up last summer....for reference the big white rectangle is our patio, this is the rear of the property

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Originally Posted by manoftalent

you could try .......going to the pub ....have a beer with the barkeep and tell him you have a reno job if anyone is interested, and you could pay CASH.....rush job ....motherinlaw is moving in .....and I want to keep her happy .....if she is happy then so am I ........ok?.....here's my number ..:;

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Well I just suggested that to the wife..........her response....."great so you are going to go and drink away the money for the render huh?"

My response "ofcourse not honey"

Hers in return "Yeah right, so what is it the colorbond roofing then"

DAMN!!! I cant win here sometimes.......

Hi Derek,

In your experience how expensive are architechts and drafters etc?

I rang Sophie the builder - she is busy until Easter - but she said she wouldn't mind a smaller job in May/June - so she may be interested - but she won't consider anything until the plans are submitted.

Looking at your aerial view of the roof, my initial suggestion of a flat roof over the connecting room still seems the least complicated.

I think you need to very clearly work out what sort of roof line will work and be cost effective and look good as well. Unless you know this, there is little point getting builders around just yet.

I take photos and draw over them with a simple paint programme.

If you can take some pics of the front including house and garage I could maybe do some mock ups .

Mattles

A good builder and a good architect can save you money. A poor design will cost you dearly in the long term as it will devalue your assett.

The cost of an architect is a tiny fraction of the cost of the construction. I am not going to enter into a debate as to which is better, an architect or a designer (there was a long thread on this recently) but I come from a family of architects, was initially trained as a quantity surveyor , and I look for a professional who understands building construction as well as one sympathetic to the aesthetics of the total structure. Anyone can design a building. Only a few do this well.

Perth houses now rank second in Oz, very closely behind Sydney. They are still going up ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Originally Posted by Dirty Doogie

I rang Sophie the builder - she is busy until Easter - but she said she wouldn't mind a smaller job in May/June - so she may be interested - but she won't consider anything until the plans are submitted.

Looking at your aerial view of the roof, my initial suggestion of a flat roof over the connecting room still seems the least complicated.

I think you need to very clearly work out what sort of roof line will work and be cost effective and look good as well. Unless you know this, there is little point getting builders around just yet.

I take photos and draw over them with a simple paint programme.

If you can take some pics of the front including house and garage I could maybe do some mock ups .

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Thanks Doogie,

I will be sure to get some mroe accurate photos tomorrow some more further more detailed measurements and will post them tomorrow.
And thanks for the heads up with your builder buddy......

May June May just work....who knows.....

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Originally Posted by derekcohen

Mattles

A good builder and a good architect can save you money. A poor design will cost you dearly in the long term as it will devalue your assett.

The cost of an architect is a tiny fraction of the cost of the construction. I am not going to enter into a debate as to which is better, an architect or a designer (there was a long thread on this recently) but I come from a family of architects, was initially trained as a quantity surveyor , and I look for a professional who understands building construction as well as one sympathetic to the aesthetics of the total structure. Anyone can design a building. Only a few do this well.

Perth houses now rank second in Oz, very closely behind Sydney. They are still going up ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Derek,

You raise some vaild points, but having some form of design does surely help the designer/architect with the end product. How long does it usually take for plans to be made up and ready for submission? Any ideas. I Do like the idea (thanks to doogie) of the flat roof.Sounds like a smart option....

Funnily enough our finance guy does some work with a private certifier, so this may just help the process a little......

Anyway I have attached some more pics of the area between the garage and house, focusing on the roof line. So some help and suggestions would be appreciated......wouldnt mind seeing what you were thing of with the flat roof design doogie.

Im considering a few small design alterations to the interior of the granny flat.....after yesterdays discussions here, I think the biggest probelm to tackle at this second is this inbetween room and its roof line......

OH I should note on the layout I did, the measurment between the laundry and the garage is incorrect, instead of been 1.8 it should be 2.2.......

Thanks in advance look forward to your responses.

Matties

Please - NO flat roof! Yes it is cheaper, but it will degrade your home.

I would span the roofs with a pitched roof - one that travels towards, rather than parallels, the existing roofs. This means that the existing roofs largely remain intact, except where the new roof joins. More importantly, the profile of the house is not disturbed unsympathetically.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek - I want to know how you'd join up 2 gable fronts with a pitched roof without substantial rebuilding. Sure it can be done - but the whole truss section on the garage will need to come off as will half the house.

Even with a flat roof I'm finding it hard to get some nice lines happening in my mock up - unless Mattles wants to get an ultra contemporary look happening.

Looks????? I just want a roof :) geee this is tricky......
The problem with a pitched roof would also be where the gap narrows towards the rear I would think???? Correct me if I am wrong ofcourse........:D

Lol Mattles. I think I've discovered something while trying to do a mock up - your garage walls are a little higher than the house walls. ie the top plate of your house wall frame is lower than the top plate of the garage.

I just cant get any aesthetically pleasing roofline happening.

Your house is brick veneer - but your garage is double brick ?? is this right?

A few problems are becoming apparent.

"The problem with a pitched roof would also be where the gap narrows towards the rear I would think????"


It Is also a problem for a flat roof.

OK, While I was there today I did measure this because It looked a little odd to me to they are the same, 20mm out at most due to slightly un even dirt on each side of the gap, but I counted the bricks and they are the same height on each side and I also used a tape measure to double check.....
the height difference changes depending on where you stand it is very deceiving........if you stand right in front of it on the embankment, you can take one step right and the house is higher one step left and the garage looks higher.......but no the do measure the same and the brick count is the same, I also scrapped dirt away to foundations and yes definately the same

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Originally Posted by Dirty Doogie

Lol Mattles. I think I've discovered something while trying to do a mock up - your garage walls are a little higher than the house walls. ie the top plate of your house wall frame is lower than the top plate of the garage.

I just cant get any aesthetically pleasing roofline happening.

Your house is brick veneer - but your garage is double brick ?? is this right?

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Um brick veneer.....double brick? ok now Im confused......:( um Its brick its against some framing that has plaster board on the other side?