Why do Electrical Things Vary From Country to Country

harro

Just wondering why you have to go thru the trouble and extra expenses of having to by a transformer thingo to buy tools from the US. why dont we all (every country in the world ) use the same electricity type???

I used to think the same about money as well ( why we all dont have the same curency ) but found that to be because of inflation and other such causes but cant figure out ( mind i havent really looked into it ) why we use different electrical thingoes ( see i dont even know what the thing i'm talking about is called )
why do the US use 60 hz and we use 50 ( is that right ) and all that kind of stuff ( 240 v compared to whatever ) is what i'm really asking, why dont we all use the same?

i'm not very good on electrical terminology so keep it simple for me please.

TIA
:?:?:?

Short answer is $$$ or that's how things started out in part of that country when electrickery was first used.

At one stage it was even worse when Edison was trying to convince people to use DC for home instead of AC - you should now have enough information to chase that interesting story on the web.

In a more recent context why is there DVD-R and R+ and R- and tripple layer blu-ray whojarwhatsmacallits, and not that long ago VHS versus Beta and even now WIndows V Mac and for a century ford V gmc etc. Its all related to $$$$$$$$. Get your system established as the standard and then write your own cheques.

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Originally Posted by BobL

Short answer is $$$ or that's how things started out in part of that country when electrickery was first used.

At one stage it was even worse when Edison was trying to convince people to use DC for home instead of AC - you should now have enough information to chase that interesting story on the web.

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Just last week, they shut down the last DC power grid in New York.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...thomas-edison/

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Originally Posted by BobL

Short answer is $$$ or that's how things started out in part of that country when electrickery was first used.

At one stage it was even worse when Edison was trying to convince people to use DC for home instead of AC - you should now have enough information to chase that interesting story on the web.

In a more recent context why is there DVD-R and R+ and R- and tripple layer blu-ray whojarwhatsmacallits, and not that long ago VHS versus Beta and even now WIndows V Mac and for a century ford V gmc etc. Its all related to $$$$$$$$. Get your system established as the standard and then write your own cheques.

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I love money and all, but geez it makes things complicated:(.

its getting late now ( or is it early:? ) but i will look it up tommorow. thanx for telling me what to look for, now i have a basis for some research:).

i get what you mean regarding the styles of formatting and all that. i guess it really is the same type of question. :cool:

thanx Bob

As they say he who creates the new paradigm wins.

why do we have pc's and macs

for the same reason we had beta and vhs, the new paradigm won, but is was worse than the old one!:doh:

Here you go Stirlo, a bit of digging around in Wikipedia might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

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Originally Posted by Big Shed

for the same reason we had beta and vhs, the new paradigm won, but is was worse than the old one!:doh:

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I think you'll find IBM personal computers (July 1981) pre-date Macintosh (January 1984) :)

Thanks silent, makes interesting reading, especially the link to 3phase:2tsup:

Interesting to read this part...

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As of the year 2000, Australia has converted to 230 V as the nominal standard with a tolerance of +10% -6%.[5], this superseding the old 240 V standard, AS2926-1987

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I didn't know OZ had changed the standard to 230V.

thats so they didn't have to upgrade crappy power lines

Yes the government is good at things like that. If you're finding it difficult to achieve a certain level of performance, lower your standards :)

Like the trains - can't get them to run on time - change the timetable.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Here you go Stirlo, a bit of digging around in Wikipedia might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

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thanx silent:cool:

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Originally Posted by silentC

Yes the government is good at things like that. If you're finding it difficult to achieve a certain level of performance, lower your standards :)

Like the trains - can't get them to run on time - change the timetable.

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Not too many govt instrumentalities left that run electrical networks, or trains for that matter! The privatised utilities don't seem to do any better.

I have a suspicion it is more to do with bringing us in to line with UK-Europe, particularly with electrical appliances now produced virtually anywhere in the world.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Like the trains - can't get them to run on time - change the timetable.

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No change the definition of late... That is what they did here. If the train arrives within 10mins of its appointed time it isn't late.. The Govt did the same thing with employment figures, changed the definition then claimed improved employment:no:

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Originally Posted by Gra

The Govt did the same thing with employment figures, changed the definition then claimed improved employment:no:

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Yes, work part time 1 hour a week and you're no longer unemployed hence we have very low unemployment figures. :((

Of course they still get the full New start allowance, etc because they are underemployed.


Peter.

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Originally Posted by Big Shed

I have a suspicion it is more to do with bringing us in to line with UK-Europe, particularly with electrical appliances now produced virtually anywhere in the world.

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I thought it might've been another thing we followed the Kiwis on :)

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Originally Posted by echnidna

why do we have pc's and macs

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I used to have a PC. I now have an iMac. It can boot either to Windows XP or to Mac OSX. I have taken the belt and braces approach. I can still run all my PC software. I love the fact that it has no tower, and has far more disc space than I am ever likely to use.

Sorry about the digression; I couldn't resist a gloat.

Rocker

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Interesting to read this part...

As of the year 2000, Australia has converted to 230 V as the nominal standard with a tolerance of +10% -6%.[5], this superseding the old 240 V standard, AS2926-1987

I didn't know OZ had changed the standard to 230V.

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What happened to the other 10 volts? Knocked off by some low-life politician?

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

What happened to the other 10 volts? Knocked off by some low-life politician?

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tax :U:U

It's powering the Lib's "educational" ads on TV about work choices :)

Hi from Amsterdam,

Thomas Edison discovered transport losses in power distribution over long distances. The voltage had to be high, but insulating materials of the day (wood, porcelain, fabrics, paper, lacquer and glass) had to be able to cope with it. Furthermore, the tension was not to jump at people's throats by just pointing at it. Edison found 100 Volts to be a good compromise.

In Berlin, Germany, large complexes were lit by carbon electrode arc lights, for which the ideal value was 55 Volts. When Edison exported his ideas and setups abroad, the Deutsche Edison Gesellschaft (later AEG) settled in Berlin. Engineers soon found ways to integrate existing cabling into a combined 55 and 110 Volt system, by offering two groups of 55 and common return leads. Glow wire bulbs were operated on 110, the arc lights on 55. 110 Volts were also offered to home conmsumer networks. The system was direct current or DC, according to Edison's convictions.

The much underestimated Croat inventor/engineer Nikola Tesla was an advocate of alternating current (AC). The man was brilliant, the world owes him much and much was stolen from him. Among his work are the fluorescent tube, high frequency technology (e.g. the radio, for which Giulielmo Marconi took the credit), the practical induction motor (improving vastly on Faraday's theories), the three phase AC system and multiphase (a)synchronous speed regulation. Tesla found AC to be more suitable for transport due to less loss, but Edison got very nasty on that, when tries were made to prove this point commercially (look into "War of the Currents"). Businessman George Westinghouse came to his aid and by means of fitting a large hydroelectric dam with AC-generation, Tesla's point was proven without a doubt. Edison's General Electric Company and Westinghouse were rivals ever since.

The story repeated itself in Europe. Tesla's system proved itself even good enough for heavy duty railways, with engineers like Hungarian Kalman Kando introducing both AC and multiphase into heavy traction, soon to be followed by Austria, Switzerland and Italy. In Germany, Werner von Siemens was impressed enough to support AC in German industry, making the rivalry between DEG/Siemens similar to that of GE/Westinghouse in the US. Siemens was based in the south (Bavaria, Schwaben) and DEG in the north. When ties with Edison and GE grew weaker with the turning of DEG into AEG, AEG soon entered into AC experiments itself (look into hi-speed multiphase powered trainsets in 1908).
For light bulbs, DC or AC didn't matter much, as long as the voltage remained the same. And as long as aplliance motors had copper wound fields instead of magnets, they would work on DC and AC (hence the name "universal motor"). Therefore, with grids gradually changing from DC into AC, the cabling could remain the same. The AC alternators had another advantage over DC generators. Their power generating coils were arranged in three groups, the base for three phases, each "power peaking" in 120 degrees shifted in time during rotor revolutions. One lead end of each group was connected to a main terminal ("zero voltage point"). At the other lead end of eacht group, the generating voltage of one group could be tapped. But between free leads of two groups, there was a higher voltage to be had (the single group voltage multiplied by the square root of 3). This higher voltage was considered ideal for heavy users, such as factory machines. So with one alternator and in combination with the zero lead, three groups of 110 Volts were available for home use. Without the zero lead, three groups of 190 Volts (110-times-squareroot-3)were available for industrial use.

Power generating companies made such propagande for their product, that the amount of users exploded from the 20's on. Furthermore, appliances became popular (electric irons, vacs, heaters, fans) and their consumption was many times more than that of lightbulbs. So the propaganda brought distributors into trouble, the gauge of existing cabling could no longer cope with demand and high currents caused voltage drop yet again. Insulating materials were improved by then and appliances could cope with slightly increased voltage, so the 110 Volts were gradually cranked up in Europe through 115 and 125 up to 127. Existing apparatus consumed more on higher voltage, but when those were written off, the replacements especially made for 127 Volts, would take less Amps for the same Watt-count. From then on, the gain would take effect and 15% more power could be distributed through existing cabling. This practice was also carried out in the US, where 100 Volts went up to 115.

This advantage didn't last long, though. A major decision was ventured in the fifties, when many generating systems and existing networks were due for total replacement. Why not double the voltage and take a progress leap which will do for some time in the future? A clever transition was devised to combine not yet written-off systems with ones to be built new.
When the domestic lighting voltage was cranked up from 110 to 127 Volts, the associated heavy industrial power voltage went up from 190 to 220 Volts. This was to be the new base for continental Europe. On alternator and transformer systems that needn't to be replaced yet, the 127 Volt output was left largely unused and the 220 Volt output helped fill in the home user demand. New alternators delivered 220 Volts in comination with the zero-voltage terminal from new, and carried a new value for industry use: 380 Volts (220-times-squareroot-3). England went for 240 Volts instead of 220, with a resulting 400 Volts for heavy users. The transition from 127 to 220 Volt went ahead in the fifties, in Holland it was completed around 1956. People who hung on to their 127 Volt appliances, could keep them running with stepdown 220/127 transformers.

So there you are, it's a question of local technical convictions and some remnants of colonial influence here and there. Australia and New Zealand will have some British influence with 240 Volts. The Japanese (always much impressed by American technology and US way of life) have even literally kept true to the orginal 100 Volts. Until some years ago, bits of 190 volts could still be found in some regions of France. In 1993, the 220 Volts were in Europe again cranked up a bit, to 230 Volts (with 380 going up to 400). In the US the same happened; 115 went to 120. Japan stayed at 100 and England had to comply to CEE trad rules and had to crank down to 230 (with which they were not pleased). Russia carries 230 like Europe, South-America has a mix of 120 and 230, and Africa has a mix of 230, 220 and 190 in some places. India will probably have 230 or 240.

The only remaning thing is the AC frequency (Hertz) and even that seems to be a question of metrical (10-based, from the Romans) or imperial (12-based). Edison chose imperial; 60 periodic current changes in one minute, meaning that 60 Hz alternators run 3600 rpm. An advantage of that is an additional time base; since each second coincides with a current change, such a change can be used as an exact 1/60th part of a second, or a "tick". Ticks are used in many computer server systems and OS-synchronisations, certainly before ceasium clocks and radio controlled time management were the trend. In Europa, a metrical 50 Hertz was chosen, meaning that our alternators run 3000 rpm. The Japanese, true to Edison's 100 Volts, curiously favoured 50 Hz to 60. But that's probably because 20% more wear on machinery running 3600 instead 3000 rpm, is a serious point to consider. You can rely upon Japanese engineers to take the best from all worlds!

Regards,

Gerhard
Holland (where the alternators are grid coupled to most other European alternators and deviate less than 15 seconds per month, when used as a time base for electric clocks!)

Hi again,

made a little mistake in the last paragraph in my previous posting. When i steal everyone's evening by letting loose 50.000 words, by Jove, i should at least do it with true facts.

With 60 Hz, there is notone current period change within one second; there are of course sixty changes. So, with 60 Hertz, every single sine cycle equals 1/60th of a second, or one "tick". This is done electronically by changing the sine into a block wave.

Sorry about that. Just clicked "submit" too fast, without re-reading and checking properly.

Come to think of it, does anyone know on what the 12-division of the imperial measurement system is based? Was it perhaps time, like 12 units on a clock face? But then again, why 12 British coins equalling one larger unit instead of 10?

Cheers,

Gerhard

I hadn't read "War & Peace", until tonight.:wink:

Hi Elkangorito,

haha, i deserved that! hahaha

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

What happened to the other 10 volts? Knocked off by some low-life politician?

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it's a nominal 230volts, the ten volts has only disappeared on paper. Every mains voltage i've ever seen has always been 240+

a major concern with the actual reduction of voltage is that heavily loaded motors [as they should be, to reduce power factor] will suffer a reduction of torque that may cause them to exceed their breakdown torque. In many parts of industry, this will require either booster transformers where it is unfeasible to replace motors, or 'simply' the replacement of motors.

Lightly loaded motors will be fine, they just won't be as lightly loaded.

As far as I know, there has been no indication of when the mains voltage will be reduced.