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I'm wondering if anyone has made there own Kitchen cupboards from scratch.
I mean we are in a woodwork Forum full of cleaver woodworkers and there really isn't much to a cupboard carcase and the price that cabinet makers charge.
It must work out cheaper
It works out a lot cheaper, especially if you build it in place, saving material. You could buy all the melamine for a kitchen for a few of hundred bux or so. Council clean ups are good for scoring hinges and drawer runners as well. Just cruise around with your cordless, and save hundreds. :wink:
I built my current temporary kitchen using second hand doors and bench top that I got from a mate who owns a joinery. The carcases are just chipboard but the same principle applies. People often say "kitchen looks nice" and I reply "yeah, go and open a cupboard", which they do and then say "oh..."
The point is that all you see of a kitchen are the doors, drawer fronts and bench tops. So even if you bought them and made the boxes yourself, which are dead easy, you would save a bit.
There are a few good books with plans and cutting lists for cabinets - unfortunately they are mostly American, so dimensions in Imperial.
Hi Nev,
I've just completed the same thing. I'm based in Hobart, but there were still three or four good joinery firms who will cut to your requirements. I can't guarantee this for you, but you can hardly see a labour component in the final price. The shop could get the melamine a lot cheaper than I could, and if they don't mark it up too much, it is hard to compete. I had toyed with the idea of leaving the kitchen until I could afford a table saw with a scroll blade, but that is 4k worth, and then you have to be strong enough to manage the melamine sheet which is really heavy. The first thing to do is to visit some of the display kitchen shops and make a mental note of how they make the carcuss. Most dont bother with tops, they use the bench top for this, I used a top for extra strength. One thing to remember is to start with a floor plan and make sure you give this a lot of thought, once your committed, there is not going back, and also get the misses involved, so she is happy. There are a couple of dimensions you need to consider, depth of the carcuss, often 450, 500, 550 are standard. I went with 550. This is really important because latter on if you wish to use laminex or parbury laminex, the sheet widths come into play. e.g. parbury sheets are wider than laminex, and if you make the bench too wide, you have a huge amount of waste, whilst a thinner bench allows you to rip down the centre of the sheet. This is the case for the melamine as well. You also need to consider heights of the final bench. Most chip board benches plus laminate are around 33-35mm. Plus you need about 125mm for a comfortable toe kick, what's left and the you final height will determine your melamine carcuss height. I went with 940mm final height, since I read and feel that the old 900 is to short. Average height for people has increased as we have been better feed than our grandparents. no joke. If you do go with a laminate bench, choose a rolled profile or similar for the back, and pay the bit extra to have the splash back made in one piece, so there is no ugly silicon join at the back. I prefer drawers over doors, and hettich have a budget drawer unit, which you only need to have the base and back, cut for, and then you fit a custom drawer front, on their custom drawer adjustment clips, really neat. I have 40+ drawers and it made it a lot easier. Don't forget to research which appliances you wish to fit. Most joinery shops build the cabinets around the appliances which are bought and provided by the customers to avoid stuff ups. One another thing, use 18mm melamine for your shelves, it make a big difference over the standard 16mm. Plus, on you cut list make sure you leave room at the front for them to attach the 2mm stiple edging strip. This is 10x better than the old iron on stuff. Send my a PM if you want a copy of the carcuss design I used, it may be a good starting point.
Thanks Nev, I have included a pdf of the drawing documents I created during the construction. I've sent them to you privately. I'm not suggesting it needs to be done like this, but I designed each cabinet and then drew up a cutting list as shown. Couple of other things. Consider visiting a joinery shop like carbatec or similar and buy a countersinking drill bit combined. This drills the pilot hole, and countersinks at the same time. You will need the special chipboard screws which have the hole in the top to cover them up afterwards. I will post a couple of photos to you tomorrow. I made a heap of mistakes, nothing too big, just hoping to pass on the knowledge learnt so you don;t do same. I'm not one to go with fashion, but most shops can also cut to size the brushed aluminium which you can use on the front of your toe kicks. I made mine from 125x35 pine, and then glue the aluminium on front, looks very professional. Also, just my opinion, some shops cut the melamine on a hortizontal cnc router bed using a router bit. From my huge sample of one, I think the traditional panel saw+ scroll blade has a better finish and was cheaper. I would recommend just getting your first contact to cut a small couple of sample to check on their workmanship, e,g, accuracy and squareness. Most of these poor sods who work the panel saws do it day in day out, and I guess it is just human to wander on the accuracy occassionally.
The book out of Popular Woodwork "The Complete Cabinet makers Reference" by Jeffrey Piontkowski is a good reference on construction methods for cabinets out of any sheet material. He gives plans cutting lists and construction notes for 25 different styles which cover most kitchen, laundry and bathroom needs - metric and imperial together with cutting lists and how to optimise parts from sheet materials.
I have made some of my own but they were very non standard incorporating glass fronts, glass shelves and diffuser material for tops as they double as light wells (SWMBO stores glassware in them and it was part of her requirement to channel light from skylights into the kitchen and RSJs stopped normal means). The cupboards went above the existing units in what is normally void space. There was plenty of room as we have 2.8 or 2.9 metre ceilings. The basic case work was melamine and used the construction methods from the book. I also used conformit screws which are especially designed for melamine/chipboard and ply - hey have a blunt end and do not split the board when driven into endgrain.
Pusser
have just finished kitchen reno a week ago
new bench tops and new cupboards and drawers, made from stratch
(one thing remember if you want dishwasher 600mm deep cupboards
also a lot of sinks need 600mm bench tops)
new sink, taps, and the main reason a dishwasher.
cupboards and drawers, pine, particule board,masionite painted, inside painted gloss white,
drawing runners from bunning $3 a set. magnitic catches, and hinges
Bench tops hdhw flooring with half round jarrah edging, sanded and flooring ployuathane, with 65 x 19 jarrah with rounded edge at back of bench top up against the tiles.
All in all looks pretty good and didn't cost the earth, about $1000 less dishwasher and sink
Cheer Don.
Here are a couple of photos of our near complete home built kitchen. I outsourced the rolled laminex bench tops, best thing I did. The options for hardware are just silly now, new kitchens must be making someone a lot of money. All the gadgest that you can get. See attached photos for hettich drawer runners. Which come in a variety of side depths and lengths, price varies from $15 to $25 per drawer. If you budget goes to $60 to $80 a draw you can try are the self closing sliders. I have included a picture, I tried one on our garbo drawer, I couldn't afford it for all of the drawers. And i can;t see the justification. I used huon pine drawer fronts and for trim. Very happy with end result. Here also is photo of the screw bit I mentioned.
Unusual to see a bench top mitred that way. Was the laminate applied to the bench top in situ perhaps? Usually they do a mason's mitre because it wastes less material and is easier to handle in non-square situations.
The drawer fronts look nice. When I do mine, I'm planning on mostly drawers too, although you can't escape having some doors.
Regarding the counter sinking drill bit, I have a Makita one that has the counter sinking drill on one end and a phillips head bit on the other. There's a brass sleeve that you slide up and it allows you to remove the bit end from the shaft so you can just flip it to change between screw driver and drill without having to undo the chuck. Best $20 I ever spent. I also have an Hitachi impact driver which has the snap chuck.
Firstly to Notsquare, do ya come up for air? :o
To Nev25, having done a few, no its not all that difficult, but it'll probably take you a lot longer and what will your finish and workmanship be like compared to a joinery shop. Do you have all the gear?
An area where you will save a few cents is cupboard backing. If the cupboard is up against and fixed to a wall and most are/will be, then a backing is not required. The way factory cupboards are made today the backing is merely for bracing so they don't flop over in a heap before installed. Once installed the backing is sufurfolus with the space between the backing and the wall becoming a breeding ground for cockies etc.
My thoughts would be that a full mitre was used to allow for a cleaner/more concealed join on the coved splashback/tops - would have to have a butt join on the vertical above the mason's mitre otherwise...Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
Speaking of which, does that coved top go behind the cooktop?
Cheers,
Yes of course, didn't think of that. :-Quote:
a full mitre was used to allow for a cleaner/more concealed join on the coved splashback/tops
Hope you don;t mind Nev, we might have hijacked this one. The mitre is very neat, but does rely on your room being square. The underside has four counterbored recesses to allow special clamps to squeeze the joint together which was also glued. I haven't cleaned all the glue away. Slow day at work, had lots of time for ideal foruming (is that a word). SilentC tally is good too! I was pretty keen to show off my kitchen very happy. The bench tops were made off site, and they test the fit in their workshop to make sure all is sound. I was most impressed. They cost 3k, but compared to granite and that plastic stuff invented 40 years ago, it was the cheapest. I don't wont to argue, but a closed cabinet with a back helps keep the cockies on the outside. Sybarite, you have me worried is it not ok for coved back behind induction plates? I haven't fitted the glass splash back yet?
Hey Not Square,
I don't want to scare you, that's a great top, but technically (Australian Standard 4386) it is not legal to have a "non fire retardant" material less than 200mm from the burner/hob for a height of minimum 150mm...but these standards were written pre-induction top...having said that I believe it also has to do with conducted heat from pots and pans.
What we normally do is stop a laminated splash either side of a cooktop and insert a suitable material in the gap, such as tile, stainless or my favourite - glass.
I'm not really sure how to best do it with a low cove such as yours; if you cut into the cove down to benchtop and extend your splash material (glass?) down to benchtop height then you will have the issue of the cut sides of the cove to deal with, which may or may not be an aesthetic problem.
If anyone else can correct me or suggest alternatives please feel free.
Of course, this is only how I would do it for a client to protect myself from any liability issues.
Cheers,
Oh man! Where were you when I started this kitchen. I'll see what I can do to remedy this problem. I like glass too. Typically what type do you specify, does it really have to be toughen? Would laminate 3x3 not do?
I did a couple of kitchens like this. A mate had a $16K panel saw. Here is the story:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/show...=pulse+kitchen
Pulse
Hey NS - I have been hanging around here for a while now...I just haven't seen any kitchen related questions from you before...shame that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Notsquare
I have just finished speaking with one of my glass splashback suppliers regarding your question.
According to the supplier, it is mandatory to have toughened glass behind a cooktop as laminated glass can supposedly break under temperature change stress.
The same supplier also prefers to hang toughened glass wherever possible - their reason is that if the glass takes a hit, the toughened glass breaks into little pieces unlike the laminated which will fracture into shards.
In situations where a piece of glass is too small to be toughened, such as under a window, they will use a piece of annealed glass instead.
I hope this helps more than it hurts.
Cheers,
Thanks Earl for your contribution, I think I might look at stainless sheet instead. Toughen glass is way expensive. I didn't realise the laminated glass was dangerous in this situation. It reminds me of that poem about baby boomers, and how they managed to get to adult hood without these regulations.
Hey N.S.
Stainless is good - just make sure you get an adequate substrate - not too thin or else all the imperfections in the wall will show.
As for babyboomers (hey, I'm a child of the metric system) in my opinion, the reason everyone is flat out covering their collective arses these days is because of all the moneyed up BB's ready to go them at the slightest drop of a shard of glass!
Litigation was never an issue in the 50's - 60's - 70's...but then again, there weren't many glass splash backs around then either.
Have fun!
Cheers,