We have bought a spa from an auction. What is the process to be followed when installing an outdoor spa or the best way to go about it:?
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We have bought a spa from an auction. What is the process to be followed when installing an outdoor spa or the best way to go about it:?
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More information is required, ie. what kind of spa? what sort of heater/pump/filter?
Whether you want to install above/below ground.
What exactly do you want to know? I have just gone through this process so I can help you through the process.
cheers,
m.
Talk to your local council regarding the location (slab requirements) as well as fencing & wiring regs as well.
A spa, unless it is a swimming spa, is an appliance and does not require any council approval nor fencing of any sort.
Check with an electrician because some spa require 20 other even 30 amp plugs. You have to be able to drain it every month or two, usually run off the garden with a large house. Must have a lockable cover or lid.
Spa manufacturers will tell you that they do not require any extra structural support and that a standard deck will hold it. I would run two extra bearers under your existing joists with 4 new stumps or stirrups to avoid that sinking feeling...:D I wouldn't have a spa on a concrete slab, all manufacturers but for one, use pine frame. Unless you have a steel structure, try to have it on a deck away from moisture.
Has a spa in Perth when we were there, it needed to be fenced by law.
If your spa does not have a cover you need to fence it yet you need no council D.A.
New Spa have a lockable cover that legally replaces a fence. Check with your local pool/spa supplier, pretend you want to buy from them and they will happily provide all you need to know. Your council will be pushing for you to provide an application and get your money for nothing. You can ask the questions to your council after you have all the answers.
I understand that all councils and states are different yet they all have one common denominator. They live off you, and want to sponge you for all you are worth. Just think in the concept of charging for a DA a percentage of the building cost and if you do it yourself, forcing you to factor in imaginary cost for labor.
In my dictionary it is called mafia protection racket.
In South Australia a spa is treated the same as a swimming pool, must be fenced etc.
Too little knowledge is a dangerous thing :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Hi M,
We bought a 3-seater outdoor spa with a heater from an auction. It has a cover but not lockable. It is new. We would like to install it in a bricked corner outside but we've been told that we should install it on a concrete slab below the paving or decking as it would be easier to level it and more structurally secure. Then we would like to deck around it. We've also been told that if we have a lockable cover, we won't need to fence it. We obviously need plumbing and power so I presume we would need to speak to a sparky and lecky first before we go ahead with the concrete. I am also thinking that it may be better to just put a concrete base under the spa and pave around that to the brick walls for future underground access before we put the decking in??
Any advice would be great.
Thanks heaps.
R
Hi R,
You can buy the straps to lock the cover. I do believe you 'technically' require a license for the spa but thats a whole nother argument. We have a lockable cover that can hold 125KG so we feel like we have shown a duty of care. Lets not get bogged down in that though...
The slab is not essential, mine actually sits in the dirt as a bit of support and the frame holds the rest of the weight. Mine sits in a timber frame though so it is slightly different and the frame sits on a slab. A slab would be a good idea for the bricks though. Just try and keep it as simple as possible.
Level is important and I regret mine not being as level as it could have been.
There is no need for a plumber as it is just PVC pipes and joins that you can get from bunnings. Just make sure you used the pressure glue (green) as it will hold better and longer.
For my leccy I ran the conduit for him (after checking with him) and he just did the ends. Some are finicky though. Conduit (underground) should be at least 600mm down though (from memory) so make sure you do it properly.
Access is important, especially to the pump, filter, heater etc. so really think about how you will do that, especially when you want to brick it.
I have a frame with a lid built onto it with cladding which just looks like a bench surrounding the spa but in fact lifts up for access.
Hope that helps, feel free to ask more questions or clarification.
Cheers,
Michael
:doh: If the heater is gas, then the spa needs to be done by a plumber.
Plumber needs to- position air intakes safely, position pump, position heater in safe location. All relevant to where you are wanting to put it.
It needs adequate ventilation- just because its outside doesn't mean it has adequate ventilation and/or clearances.
Spa pump lines either need to have fall to the spa inlet or fall away from the spa inlet- depends on pump type eg self priming, heater unit, uv, distance, drain location etc. Check the installation instructions they should tell you.
You do need a lockable cover, and water proof electrical connections aswell. With the powerpoint a certain distance from the spa too.
If draining into sewer then you need to get a plumber to do the whole install.
And yes it needs to be installed on a good stable sub base eg _ compacted dirt or paving, and should be level. Concrete bases tend to crack if not prepared with a spa load in mind. Paving is the normal way i've done it/ seen it done.
If you don't have a C.O.C then your warranty is void.
Mines an electric heater, never thought about gas.
Yeah, get a plumber for that. :)
In vic a spa over 30cm needs a fence and a building permit. I am aware the some parts of NSW do allow lockable covers. In Vic it is state wide they are not allowed. The biggest problem with pool / spa fencing is that the average person has no clues in terms of making the fence fully comply. They often abut the fence up to climbable objects like taps and spa pumps and heaters, which make the fence climable and more important dangerous to young kids.
When a kid drowns they often blame the guy who sold it to them or the local council for not telling them whats required. You can potentially viod your house insurance if you dont have the right approvals and something does happen.
Some poeople like Marc probably couldnt give a F**K about pool fencing, but having been involved in 2 drownings (as a consultant) I would not want to see anyone go through what these families did.
wow, you victorians are living in the police state arent you! Thrown in jail for doing 61kmh in a 60 zone, no water on your gardens and now no spa unless its behind stalag 13 type barriers (without the tunnels though!)
Victorians of course do have a way - if the spa sits on a block wall base 200mm high, then as long as there are no footholds and your spa is 1m high then it fulfills the 1.2m non climmable barrier test - personally what i would do rather than having an ugly fence around the spa.
Incidentally, i have a 6 yr old, and we dont lock the spa, but he cannot get in himself without our help, as the lid is way too heavy to remove on his own, and thats with the steps in place - imagine without them how he'd fair! Fortunately we live in NSW so common sense seems to rule for once LOL!
So every time you leave the spa even to answer the phone or have a (assuming you dont in the spa) you put the lid on? You have a party every time someone leaves the spa do u put it on then ? Many kids have drowned at someone elses house when adults are drinking so while your kid might not be able to open it others mayand they might get in there and not get out.
I used to think the pool fencing laws were a crock too, but if you talk to parents who have had kids that have drowned and the sadness in their eyes im sure you'll change ur attitude. Whats worse a dead kid (think of it if it was your six year old) or a so called ugly fence. What would you want to do to someone if they were looking after your child and he drowned at their property and the only reason you could give them was you didnt want to look at an ugly fence. Well i can bet a dead child thats turned blue looks much uglier.
A fence wont stop many kids but it will slow them down.
Have a read of this, this is real stuuf
Incident 10Everyone was watching her over the course of the weekend and at different[Mother's statement - 1267/2000 - 20 months female]
stages different people would grab her and stop her getting into mischief.
They weren't asked in particular to watch her but everyone was just being
helpful. … When we arrived home FAMILY FRIEND and their kids were in
the spa. I went out there with DECEASED to say hello and they were just
hopping out. DECEASED of course, wanted to go in but I wouldn't let her. I
asked FATHER if he would take her in but he didn't want to as it was too
cold. ... DECEASED had been wandering from room to room but at that
time I thought she was waiting to have a go on 'the wobbler'. I went to the
lounge room and DECEASED wasn't there. I asked AUNT where she was
and she told me she had been there a second ago and was next on the
machine. ... I was wanting to give DECEASED a bath. I noticed the study
door open a little bit and this door is normally closed. I then opened the
door and realised the glass sliding door that leads out onto the courtyard
where the spa is, was open about 10cm. These doors are normally closed.
The sliding door was always locked and dad was always telling everyone to
lock it. ... I know that you shouldn't assume that someone is looking out for
her but because there was so many adults there and because they'd helped
out during the weekend, I thought that she would be with someone.
Yes, surfing high on the emotional wave is the way to work the crowd well done. Also the use of half edited vulgarities is a good way to appeal for consensus.
There are two main group of people in the world.
The one who love to achieve in their own terms and fight for an environment that allows to do so and in the process take responsibility for their actions, and the other group who lobbies to legislate an environment that will then provide what they desire by default.
Obviously the second group implies that unless there is a law for or against XXX nothing will change since change comes from the outside. And the consequence of this form of thinking is the absence of personal responsibility. If a kid drowns it is because the bad politicians have not legislated a proper fence.
I am waiting for legislation that increases "housing affordability " in Vaucluse.:doh:
Nic, It would be best to avoid any information on this subject not directly relevant to your location.
It appears that in your area ( Rockingham council?), the regulations are set by the council.
If so read this, it is the coucils rules regarding spa's and pools.
http://www.rockingham.wa.gov.au/pdf/...egulations.pdf
Unfortunately some people on this forum refuse to admit that talking to councils, building inspectors or governing bodies can actually be helpfull. They won't charge you money to talk to them and get advice- that's what your rates are for. It does however appear that you need a building approval for the installation of your spa.
Have fun reading- hope you find the info that you need.
Page 4, 1st paragraph:
It appears- you dont need a fence if you can put the spa edge up high enough.
- You still need building approval, so the council can check that you have done it right.
Marc, People like you are the reason there are so many laws today, and i would not be surprised if you live in vacluse, because often wealthy people are more concerned with their possessions and what things look like than the welfare of their families and others. I guess by your photo you are getting on in life and were brought up in the shell be right attitude era. As people evolve and learn new things, they implement them, I guess you would argue against scaffolding on a building site to if it ruined the look of your property (whats a broken leg, back or neck).
There are some laws I dislike, like the fact I cant drink a slab of bourbon and get behind the wheel of my car and do dohnuts down the main street, but I understand that if i do this i can kill myself and maybe others.
Anyways some people never learn untill its to late, no point arguing, life is short, even shorter for a kid that has never had the chance due to a selfish adult.
thebuildingsurv is right
Pools and spas are in the same category, not like toasters - they are appliances:wink:Quote:
Why have Legislation for Private Swimming Pools?
Drowning is the leading cause of injury and death in children aged 0-5 age. Every week one child under five years of age drowns in Australia. For every drowning it is estimated that approximately six children are admitted to hospital as a result of an immersion incident. In Australia this equates to 360 ‘near drowned’ children each year. For children aged 0 - 5, domestic swimming pools are the most common site in which drowning occurs. It is estimated that Australia wide 97% of young children who drowned in a domestic swimming pool were residents or an invited guest, of a relative or friend.
Most if not all coucils require planning approval first becauseQuote:
Legislation in Western Australia requires the owner
or occupier of a property with a private swimming or
spa pool to install barriers around the structure for
the protection of young children who may enter that
area with or without the knowledge or consent of
the owner/occupier.
A lid/cover is not a fenceQuote:
Legislation in Western Australia
The following documents operate together to
stipulate the requirements for swimming pool and
spa barriers:
• Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions)
Act 1960 (the “Act”)
• Building Regulations 1989 (the “Regulations)
• Australian Standard 1926.1 – 1993; Fencing
for Swimming Pools (the “Standard)
Fines might not be big but living with the fact that you killed a three year old can't be paid off. My cousin drowned on Christmas day many years ago in old rules fenced pool, she was blue when removed from the water and I can still remember the look on my Aunty's face like it was today. We were extremely lucky that she was able to be revived and has suffered no long term damage, but she spent the rest of the summer in intesive care. Most of these type of stories don't end this well. Do it properly.Quote:
Lockable Pool/Spa covers are not suitable to meet
the requirements of the Legislation.
To read it all go here http://www.dhw.wa.gov.au/Files/RulesforPools3-11a.pdf
While we are on the subject and there seem to be some Knowledgeable people here, just a question. I always thought a pool fence had to be 'self securing' so that if you walk away from it it becomes safe without you having to do anything?
Can the fence for a pool be installed in panel fashion so that you could remove it and replace it?
Just wondering, freinds of mine have a pool and a fence but due to the location of the pool and house you basically walk out the sliding door on the back of the house and straight into the fence.
It would be nicer during times of use to be able to take that section away as at the moment you have to walk to one end to access the gate.
Bricks, short answer is no, kids drown when you run inside to answer the phone and don't replace the panel, I guess that is why the glass fencing is now so popular over here - looks better than having a fence outside your door. Check out the pdf link I posted it has the whole run down, not sure if there are subtle differences where you are. My understanding is that it will be the same as it is an Australian Standard.
having just been through this entire process in building our pool in NSW, you can use your house doors (sliding etc) as part of the fence, HOWEVER the rules that apply to these doors are the same that apply to the gate - self closing and child proof for opening
There are very few doors that can have mechanisms retro-fitted to self close, and most fail the child proof latch tests. We spent days with the fencers working out how we could use doors and windows that opened into the pool area - in the end it worked out MUCH easier to keep the fence the legal distance off the house. We then used glass panels to reduce the impact of the fence....
LOL! I have 2 yr old, of course I freakin put the lid on it when i leave it, and you take a before you get in a spa! First of all, i dont regail against fencing pool laws, apart from the odd stupid law that applies to fish ponds no matter how inaccessible they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuildingsurv
Further it doesnt follow in the slightest, that the more draconian the legislation the safer you'll somehow make it. the obvious case in point, is how people start to depend on safety fences and think therefore the child is safe, and thus dont supervise, there have been umpteen cases of 3 yr olds scaling pool fences by standing on their tricycle or whatever. the world isnt safe, never was, never will be, and legislation wont make it so.
bet you pounbds to peanuts that more children were killed by 4wd's last year, than children that successfully got in a spa witha cover on! OMG Ban 4wds! As to getting approvals frm council - how many people get applications done for an aircon install when within 2m of the boundary - 1 in 50, 1 in a 100? what about pulling out a 3.5m tall camelia, actually what about just pruning it - come to council and get an approval with fee of course. Getting an approval for trimming my hedge - nah we'er not overgoverened are we......
Priceless I love it...remember always, "rich is bad poor is good"Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuildingsurv
Correct, I run several building sites with illegal immigrants from china, all in the poor suburbs of course.Quote:
I guess by your photo you are getting on in life and were brought up in the shell be right attitude era. As people evolve and learn new things, they implement them, I guess you would argue against scaffolding on a building site to if it ruined the look of your property (whats a broken leg, back or neck).
For some reason I am not surprised that you don't like the laws againstQuote:
There are some laws I dislike, like the fact I cant drink a slab of bourbon and get behind the wheel of my car and do dohnuts down the main street, but I understand that if i do this i can kill myself and maybe others.
drink driving, but hei, I can not make supposition on your character since I don't know you and don't have the benefit of your photo to make assumptions either.
Now here is a paragraph I totaly agree with. Most people never learn that the answer to human shortcomings is not legislation. That it is the change from whithin that matters and not the one from outside. That children are the rsponsibility of their parents and not the parliament or the council or the 4WD manufacturers or Colt or Winchester.Quote:
Anyways some people never learn untill its to late, no point arguing, life is short, even shorter for a kid that has never had the chance due to a selfish adult.
Stats show drowings have significantly reduced since pool fencing laws were introduced, in fact i dont beleive there has been any drownings with a fully compliant barrier.
Anyway I am not a pool fencing campaigner, just being captain obvious, and yes many kids do get hit in driveways by 4wd and other cars, in fact i know a bloke that killed his brother in laws kid, but there is no simple way to resolve this like there is with a pool fence. I dont beleive more kids are killed this way though ( i could be wrong)
I agree there is far to much red tape these days. In relation to the guns, before you had to lock them up my dad used to keep his large collection of rifles , shotguns and ammo within reach of us kids and we played with them when he went out. My grandfather always used to keep a loaded shotgun for protection in his car when he worked at the footscray fruit and vegge market, I used to play with it. I am glad you now have to lock em up and keep ammo and the guns seperate.
Often its not untill a law is introduced that people become aware a danger exists.
Pharmboy I would be interested if you could provide details of the upteen cases of kids scaling pool fences and then drowing (or even one for that matter) I am sure there would not be many.
Anyway I hope either of you are never Involved in any accident with some kid drowning etc, because unlike a disease this is a preventable death. Ultimately you will do what you want anyway.
3 minutes on google returned 2006 report into child deaths in qld - for 1-4 yr olds, "one child stood on chair to open the gate" 8 drownings were in pools, 4 in bathtubs, 4 were gates left open, 4 were no failure in fencing. no deaths in spas.....Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuildingsurv
So the return question of course would be, how many toddlers have drowned in a spa with a lid as the barrier? this is the crux of the issue - we got the regs on pool fencing when it was demonstrated that pool drownings were a growing problem, and that pool fencing with gates actually very significantly reduced the drowning rates amongst toddlers (note - "toddlers'). Has anyone provided any data to show that spas with covers are a significant risk as compared to fenced off spas (ie NSW versus vict for instance) in order to change the legislation, or do they just change the definition because it seems logical and they can?
The reason i know, is that my son at 5 scaled a pool fence with ease in about 10 seconds to get a ball - I'm quite sure he's not the worlds best climber.
so in the above 8 cases, its fair to say fencing for the pools created 3 deaths, and 5 to do with incompetent supervision - also high risk of been known to docs and lower socioeconomic background - just thought I'd add that one given how Vaucluse people are bad..... ;)
That extract I provided was from a spa with a cover, obviously not on at the time the kid drowned, the regs are to protect kids under 5 not over 5. People from lower socio economic backrounds are always higher when it comes to problems with kids, probably cause they have have more of them and cant care from themselves other than their kids.
I think you have missed the whole point about about safety barriers not having to rely on human interaction.
In regards to standing on a chair, yes this is possible, but that is why the gate swings outwards. It isnt easy for a kid to reach up open the latch the get off the chair, whilst keeping the gate open, but yes its possible though, and why would you leave your kid unsupervised anyway.
1 case where a kid has drowned with a complying pool fence, i can not see how the pool fence has caused the the other deaths. I think you have muddled the stats, feel free to post the links i would be intersted.
I have personally had to provide reports to the coroner (twice). Its is not a nice task, and also provided comments to the AS committee about the new AS 1926 that has been produced, the comments I made were to relax some of the requirements in regards to boundary fencing requirements which i beleive were adopted. I am not all about over regulation, just regulation thats warranted.
What I was saying about many (not all) "showy" wealthy people is that the look of thier backyard is more important than safety. Anyway we can agree to disagree and crap on for hours about who is right and who is wrong, but i think that the overwhelming majority would agree with me on this one. And i think it should be left at that.
okeydokey - withour arguing OK ;)
nah, I know exactly what the auto closing gates are about, and that a spa lid doesnt fulfill that requirement (there's one for the inventors out there). And as a real world person I'm dead sure you are acutely aware of what a large % of pools out there having self closing and latching gates that once did, and now dont - I wouldnt be surprised if its a 1/3 to a 1/2 of all fences dont comply in one way or another - although they probably did at one stage.
I'm not saying that a pool fence caused any deaths at all, for the report that I was reading - it links from here,
http://www.ccypcg.qld.gov.au/about/p...ns/dcyp06.html
BTW, my local govt area was one of the first to put togther proper new pool fence laws in and retrospective ones. The main reg that I think is stupid if its still there, is that you cant have your BBQ inside the pool fence (NSW govt)- sort of defeats the purpose for a lot of people i would think. Sometimes people write legislation with the aim of a perfect world rather than simply accepting its a risky place to be. I am glad I dont have to fence my spa off, as is teh company that sold it to me, because for certain i wouldnt have bought it if I had to erect 18m of fencing and a self latching gate - I especially feel for the childless couples who have a secure backyard no kids, no kids to come and visit, yet have to build a great big fence for a risk that is essentially non existant for them
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAtIt
Check with your council if you need a building permit.Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAtIt
Check what fencing is required.
Get sparky to spark/ Plumber to plumb.
You need a good solid base to put it on.
Get permit to fill it- probably need a cover to prevent evaporation first. Permit from water authority normally.
Get a cold drink and a hot companion.
Enjoy.
Cheers.