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By popular demand, "that thread". What do you think about electrical regulations in Australia? We have had some long threads on the topic, now here is your chance to vote. Do you think we should change the regulations?Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
I like the irony of this thread being started by chrisp........:doh:
My opinion, the shop is too closed, we need regulation, but also the ability for a course to teach the home owner how they can work on their own property, not a full course, but giving them sufficient ability to do their own wiring, with maybe an inspection facility for these people.
This would also need to come with strong sanctions against anyone who did the course and worked on someone else's property
Oh and you forgot Cliffs Rats ????? option
I voted:
Allow people to sit a full licence (without doing 4 year apprenticeship).
Allow like-for-like only (replace broken components).
I think you should be allowed to swap out a power point, switch or light fitting or other hard wired appliance with like for like.
I think you should be able to obtain a license simply by proving you have the requisite knowledge. The current arrangement should stay, where a licensed person is qualified to do the work without supervision but cannot do it commercially without a contractor's license and cannot connect to the supply without compliance testing by a qualified person.
I think that electrical inspections should be mandatory when a house changes hands (similar to a pink slip). Faults should either be fixed before sale, or factored into the contract price.
Like that last one Silent:2tsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
I like it too. :2tsup: I'd think we'd need something like that if the system was changed to allow occupiers to do their own wiring.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
I certainly had an electrical inspection done when I bought my house and was under the impression it was required. (Perhaps this was a requirement of the lending institution?)
The inspection did reveal several minor problems including a shed that had been wired bya previous owner.
Yes that could be a requirement of the lender. As far as I know, there is no legislation requiring inspections to be done. I've bought twice in Sydney and the council inspection and building inspection were required by the bank. No electrical. I hired a very good inspector to do the second place I bought - he highlighted a couple of plumbing and electrical things but conceded he wasn't qualified and suggested we get a trade in to check them out.
As far as I know, the only mandatory thing is the title search. Even the utility searches and other stuff usually done by the buyer's solicitor are only for your peace of mind. I think...
if you have to ask how to wire a two-way switch which socket on a GPO is active etc. leave it alone. I saw a contractor in the 50's trying to wire an extention lead and as he had no idea he joined all the wires together. Luckely the switchboard was fused.
les
The concept of pink slip on sale is good, but won't protect the incumbent.
I voted for the test option. But my preferred option would be to de-regulate residential (owner/occupier) wiring entirely, and for an owner/occupier to state what work has been done and submit to inspection by the supply authority (it's their system you're connecting to).
I voted the same as Silent and agree with what he says in his voting post. But I think people should think seriously about not doing it if they have to ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauterise
25 years ago every electrical installation had to be inspected by the local electricity council by putting a ready for test in and could not be connected until it was inspected and then the inspector would turn it on Now the councils put it back on the sparky and only do spot checks and if they think the sparky is not doing it properly they will target him.
Leave it as it is.
People will do their own work anyway.
If they are stupid they will die.
If they are clever thay will live, however they may inadvertantly kill someone down the track.
I guess the best result is that the gene pool will be a little healthier:D
BTW, I am an Electrician.
I do not work in the domestic field and don't care if a system is introduced allowing people to do their own domestic work, although I can see more bad than good coming of it.
Over the next few years the Electrical trade will change. Apprenticeships will be shorter and be segmented into smaller fields, ie domestic, commercial and industrial.
It may not be too far away that apprenticeships will be so short you guys will be able to do one in your spare time. Good luck getting a Sparky who knows what he is doing after this happens.
Cheers, Jack
Give em an inch they will take a mile!!!!
Shoot em all,
let God sort em out.:o :~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauterise
Well I really hope they dont go down this track. It will end in tears for a lot of people. When the last lot of licensing renewals happened I was sent by the company I worked for to a course to fulfill the license reqs. 2 full days and an assignment that took 4 hours to do.
I learnt a hell of a lot and I have worked as a sparky for over 10 years. Things like the importance of correct impedance and correct testing requirements. Things like shrouding powerpoints and insulation in ceilings.
How is the lay person supposed to learn all this stuff let alone remember it? How many people have seen the AS3000 wiring rules? It isnt the easiest regulation to interpret let alone use correctly.
I dont usually have to worry about those things as Im an industrial sparky but I have a good idea of whats required in the domestic scene.
The thing to think about is it might pass the inspection because a lot of things are unseen due to walls ceilings etc but is it worth being responsible for killing someone just because you inadvertinly made a mistake? What if it was one of your own family? Could you live with that? My father worked with a linesman who made a mistake on a powerpole and a pregnant woman miscarried when she got a shock in a bath. Dad said he was never the same person after that.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Shane.
I have abstained from voting.
If anyone is permitted to go sit a license test without getting their hands dirty, what kind of test will it be?
A 2 hour test where you answer a booklet of questions?
A day long test where you have to connect something up and a written test?
A week long test where you will have to display knowledge of all the regulations?
Or will it be the 4 hour test I did with a written test, a fault find and a safe disconnect/reconnect?
(BTW, if you have to ask what a safe disconnect/reconnect involves, you failed, don't come back ever again.)
I am a licensed electrician, and I am against any and all doing electrical work, including some licensed electricians. But I do think there is a place for those folks who are competent, and want to do bits and pieces here and there for themselves.
The problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Until you work out a way to do that reliably and honestly, why the heck is this carp still being debated? :rolleyes:
Now that the thread is cold, it is apparent that it is not going very far, for a good reason.
There are too many issues muddled together in this poll.
IMHO the questions are:
<O:p
1)what level of regulation is appropriate to balance safety in a domestic setting and practicality?
<O:p
-the current level: all fixed wiring needs to be done by a licensed electrician
-owner can wire up to the switchboard subject to inspection
-owner can do everything subject to inspection
-replacement of same with same should be allowed without inspection
-owner can do everything without inspection.
<O:p
2)is apprenticeship necessary to ensure the competence necessary for a licence?
<O:p
-yes
-no, it should be sufficient to pass a TAFE course that includes strong practical training
-no, it should be sufficient to pass a theoretical and practical examination
-no, it should be sufficient to pass a theoretical examination only.
<O:p
3)is trade protection through the apprenticeship system desirable?
<O:p
-yes, because apprenticeship is necessary
-yes, because trade protection is good for the economy
-no
-unsure
<O:p
4)is trade protection through regulation desirable?
<O:p
-yes, because the current level of regulation is the best for safety and practicality
-yes, because trade protection is good for the economy
-no
-unsure
<O:p
Up to you, Chrisp or silentC, if you think that this topic is really worth pursuing further. From the level of responses, I would guess not.
I am in the same position as Jack and must say I agree with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
As for finding a sparkie you knows broad spectrum they are quickly dissappearing. In a few years they won't exist
Thats my 2 cents worth:D :D
I live in a small coastal tyown where a lot of the houses are holiday homes. This includes my next door neighbours who arrived to do a few jobs at their house three weeks ago to find that a number of power points, and fluoro lights had been fitted to ther back deck. This work was done without their knowledge and they have not been able to find out who did it! I had my sparky mate here a couple of days ago and he had a quick look at next doors electrical "work" and he showed me me several places where wiring was incorrect and fittings incorrectly placed/ fitted so that electrocution is a very real possibility. The cabling is very untidy and conduits are either missing, used inappropriately when it would have actually been easier to fit the cable inside the walls or they are just plainly untidy. All work looks very amateurish and my neighbours are very annoyed to say the least as they have a son who is an electrician and if they had wanted the work done they would have asked their tradesman son to do it, as it is they will have to get him to "repair" the work of some geographically challenged amateur. It will be hilarious if they get a bill fom this DIY type turkey!!!
So have you got some lunatic DIYer there who runs around doing unlicensed electrical work on people's houses when they're not home, or do they rent the place out to tenants?
And me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simomatra
F&E, thanks for kick-starting the thread again. I'm a bit confused though as you are suggesting more options to the poll than I have:rolleyes:.
I was pleased to see that silentC and I don't hold radically different views (although from past threads I often wondered), and it seems to me the poll is breaking into two camps: the electricians mainly saying to leave things alone; and the others who seem to suggest that a different system should be considered.
For the record, I'm not suggesting an anything goes, but rather a system that provides sufficient information and training to people so that the work can be carried out safely.
Education is the key to safe outcomes - not regulation.
I don't think the only way should be via a four year apprenticeship.
Maybe I did not make myself clear. I am not suggesting more options for this poll. I am saying that if you want a meaningful indication of people's preferences you have to put up the 4 polls I suggested. Otherwise, you just keep getting rambling anecdotes that do not further the purpose of a meaningful discussion about the appropriateness of current legislation.
No, it's not a 'renter". No-one around here can work out who or why, I was at work that day and didn't asee anyone, the old couple the other side saw a sedan with racks and ladders. That doesn't sound like even a handybloke type coot! It seems we have a phantom cable guy!!Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
Anyone who is capable of passing a competence test should be licensed to carry out works within their level of competence.
Getting right away from conventional sparkies several trades that ought be able to perform electrical works include various radio/tv/electronics techs, motor rewinders & appliance repairers etc.