Deterring Termites

Greetings all, I am having a tough time deciding on hwo to proceed with the next step of our renovations. I am about to rebuild the front of the house with new windows, front door and cladding. The quandry I have, is that the main beam under the front of the house has been an access point for termites, who have assisted me with a large part of the demolition :( On my dodgy picture attached, you can see where the soil under the slab at the front of our house, which is street level, butts up against the main front floor beam.

I am intending to cut the slab back roughly 15 cms back from the front of the house and install proper drainage before we pave the area, but the decision I am having trouble with is how to deter the termites from accessing the house. I know it is impossible to stop them completely, but I want to make it as difficult as possible for them (much like a burglar) :wink:

My thoughts were:

1. After cutting the concrete, dig down far enough to install a steel girder in place of the wooden one.

2. Dig down and install a treated wooden beam to replace the other one

3. Use either 1 or 2 with Termimesh installed down the front

4. Use either 1 or 2 and have termite treatment injected in dug our area, or through drill holes like they do.

Any thought, comments or opinions would be greatly appreciated. If I haven't provided enough details let me know.

Thanks,

Alex

Get the Termimesh guy to come out have a look. If he takes the job on, he will give you a warranty on it.

Is there any antcapping under the beam? If you get the soil level down below that, then they can't get in without poking their heads out. You need to be able to inspect both sides of it.

Alex, definitely do option 1 and replace with gal steel RSJ. Place some flashing between the RSJ and the wall bottom plate.

Before you fill in the hole however....you'll probably need to place a piece of compressed cement sheet against the sub-soil concrete wall right up to and over the steel to above ground level. It'll probably need to be glued and screwed to the concrete. Then you'll need a waterproof membrane over the compressed cement.....you'll need all this to protect the steel.

As for termites.........use termite traps like these http://www.termitefreenaturally.com.au/ These guys will send you all you need by post. And it does help.

Thanks very much for the replies guys, much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly

As for termites.........use termite traps like these http://www.termitefreenaturally.com.au/ These guys will send you all you need by post. And it does help.

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Good link - not seen that before. I googled for termite trap and there seem to be a few of these (don't know if they are all as effective).

Here's a couple of links from CSIRO.
http://www.csiro.au/resources/Termites.html
http://www.ensisjv.com/ResearchCapab...4/Default.aspx

In my humble opinion, the concrete slab is too high and ideally should be removed and lowered, or at least part of it removed (the strip near the house - you could fit a spoon drain with a grid over it if you wanted to maintain the level).

You could also consider replacing the beam with a concrete lintel, but I guess that would be a specialist job.

Termite traps are OK for baiting to kill the nest. Of course you have to get termite activity in it first and then you have to place the baits and hope they come back after you've disturbed it.

Speaking from experience here, they don't necessarily stop termites from getting into your house. If they happen to stumble upon your house before they stumble upon the bait station, then they will eat your house as well.

The best protection against termites is a physical barrier that they have to tunnel around to get to your house. That brings them into the open and a yearly (or half-yearly in high risk areas) inspection will detect them.

Having soil built up or slabs poured over the top of the entry point, such as between piers/foundation walls and the sub floor framing is opening the door wide and inviting them in. If you have at least 3" of open area that they have to cross, then you will be able to see them and do something about it.

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Originally Posted by AlexJ66

Greetings all, I am having a tough time deciding on hwo to proceed with the next step of our renovations. I am about to rebuild the front of the house with new windows, front door and cladding. The quandry I have, is that the main beam under the front of the house has been an access point for termites, who have assisted me with a large part of the demolition :( On my dodgy picture attached, you can see where the soil under the slab at the front of our house, which is street level, butts up against the main front floor beam.

I am intending to cut the slab back roughly 15 cms back from the front of the house and install proper drainage before we pave the area, but the decision I am having trouble with is how to deter the termites from accessing the house. I know it is impossible to stop them completely, but I want to make it as difficult as possible for them (much like a burglar) :wink:

My thoughts were:

1. After cutting the concrete, dig down far enough to install a steel girder in place of the wooden one.

2. Dig down and install a treated wooden beam to replace the other one

3. Use either 1 or 2 with Termimesh installed down the front

4. Use either 1 or 2 and have termite treatment injected in dug our area, or through drill holes like they do.

Any thought, comments or opinions would be greatly appreciated. If I haven't provided enough details let me know.

Thanks,

Alex

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very interesting situation.
I can only give you information on termite treatments

the slab is too high, but i suppose you are not going to dig it all up.:U

you are right, you could treat it by drilling hole up to 30cm apart along the path.

Cutting the path and treating

Even if you replace the wood with steel, i would still recommend some sort of treatment.
I have seen termite climb every thing!

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In my humble opinion, the concrete slab is too high and ideally should be removed and lowered, or at least part of it removed (the strip near the house - you could fit a spoon drain with a grid over it if you wanted to maintain the level).

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I like this idea, and it would be easy to pull up for future inspections or re-treatments


There are more types of treatments than termimesh.

pipe systems, this can be recharged at intervals
and there are a heap of other impregnated plastics.

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Termite traps are OK for baiting to kill the nest. Of course you have to get termite activity in it first and then you have to place the baits and hope they come back after you've disturbed it.

Speaking from experience here, they don't necessarily stop termites from getting into your house. If they happen to stumble upon your house before they stumble upon the bait station, then they will eat your house as well.

The best protection against termites is a physical barrier that they have to tunnel around to get to your house. That brings them into the open and a yearly (or half-yearly in high risk areas) inspection will detect them.

Having soil built up or slabs poured over the top of the entry point, such as between piers/foundation walls and the sub floor framing is opening the door wide and inviting them in. If you have at least 3" of open area that they have to cross, then you will be able to see them and do something about it.

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sounds like you have found out the hard way.
or you are a pest manager, because that about spot on!:2tsup:

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Originally Posted by totoblue

In my humble opinion, the concrete slab is too high and ideally should be removed and lowered, or at least part of it removed (the strip near the house - you could fit a spoon drain with a grid over it if you wanted to maintain the level).

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Thanks again folks. Totoblue and bugsy, as I mentioned, I am definately going to remove a 15 cm strip of the slab up close to the house, so that I can install proper drainage along the front, and stop the dampness that is currently occuring. This could also be lifted to check for termite activity. I don't really want to dig up the whole slab, as it is a nice solid base for paving, and means less work and disturbance of the ground.

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pipe systems, this can be recharged at intervals
and there are a heap of other impregnated plastics.

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Bugsy, do you have any examples? One termite company we have used suggested something along these lines, and the pipe system seemed perfected to install once I have cut the slab back.

Alex

Bugsy, do you have any examples? One termite company we have used suggested something along these lines, and the pipe system seemed perfected to install once I have cut the slab back.

Alex[/quote]
http://www.termguard.com.au/
is one.
probably the most used.

I dont install it so i have no vested interests.
I do know a business that does and they install alot of houses.
One catch is, only they cant inject it, special connection points you see.
So they can charge whatever they like.:;

But if you have a grid or gutter, like what was suggested earlier, you can just lift it up anyway.

I dont think baits with serve any real purpose for you.
As said before, they dont provide any protection against attack.

have alook at my website www.bugzap-pc.com

or you can visit upma the link below

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sounds like you have found out the hard way

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Yep. Had a house that had a few problems - disappearing floorboards etc. We did have some bait stations put in. Got some activity in a couple of them after a couple of months and he dropped in a bait. However in the meantime they'd found another way into the house and eaten another floorboard. Clever the way they eat right up to the finish so that it looks sound until it starts to bubble when you vacuum.

The problem in that house was that it had been added to several times over the years and there were too many places for them to get in. There were sections of the sub-floor that were inaccessible, timberwork running up from ground level with no protection, unprotected pipe penetrations and so on.

Very difficult problem to solve. So we sold the house. Someone else's problem now :)

Hey Bugsy, what do you think of permethrin (ant poison) concentrate as a do it yourself termite treatment or preventative, i realise it is not as strong as the chemicals pest controllers use, but isnt it from the same group of chemicals.

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Originally Posted by thebuildingsurv

Hey Bugsy, what do you think of permethrin (ant poison) concentrate as a do it yourself termite treatment or preventative, i realise it is not as strong as the chemicals pest controllers use, but isnt it from the same group of chemicals.

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you may have your "Ants" mixed up here.
termites are often called white ants but have no relation to ants at all.
termites are actually descendent from cockroaches.

It does confuse people alot and thats why we try to stay away from that term.

Permethrin will not stop termites and wont prevent attack.
Its ok for spiders and black ants in very short term control but lack staying power.
when we are talking about pyrethroid based treatments the products are so wide and varied its hard to compare.
Most of our chemicals have additives for different uses.

I would not be using permethrin for termite treatments and i dont think it is registered for that anyway?
I could be wrong, who knows whats at bunning these days

Yes I do know there is a difference between them, however as you know many bugs are controlled by the same types of chemicals. I thought you would have been aware that many "eco" pest controllers use perethroid based chemicals, some mixed with a celluose material, im sure they wouldn't guarantee it though.

In fact even "biflex" is a varation of this chemical group, however biflex is an approved chemical to use. Maybe as a pest controller do a google search on permethrin termite treatments. I have spoke to other pest controllers about this, and some have reservations about the effectiveness due the the lack of residual effect. Many "eco" pest controllers stand by it.

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Originally Posted by thebuildingsurv

Yes I do know there is a difference between them, however as you know many bugs are controlled by the same types of chemicals. I thought you would have been aware that many "eco" pest controllers use perethroid based chemicals, some mixed with a celluose material, im sure they wouldn't guarantee it though.

In fact even "biflex" is a varation of this chemical group, however biflex is an approved chemical to use. Maybe as a pest controller do a google search on permethrin termite treatments. I have spoke to other pest controllers about this, and some have reservations about the effectiveness due the the lack of residual effect. Many "eco" pest controllers stand by it.

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Make sure when you search that is relative in Australia and not in the US.
different laws.

as i have stated before in my pervious post, permethrin is a formualtion of synthetic pyrethroid
Like bifenthrin, permethrin, cilsin etc
but they dont all work the same.
did you read my pervious post ?

yes I read your pervious post (just kidding) And I realise permethrin on its own is not approved to use under AS 3660.1 but it is becoming more common for new treated timber products to be treated with this only, now CCA is banned. These products are BCA accredited. You are the expert not me but i believe I am not wrong in saying this product would have some effect and detterence value. Some pest controllers for existing houses (not new) are spruiking permethrin as a safer less toxic alternative.

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Originally Posted by thebuildingsurv

Yes I do know there is a difference between them, however as you know many bugs are controlled by the same types of chemicals. I thought you would have been aware that many "eco" pest controllers use perethroid based chemicals, some mixed with a celluose material, im sure they wouldn't guarantee it though.

.

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its
Pyrethroid

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but it is becoming more common for new treated timber products to be treated with this only, now CCA is banned. These products are BCA accredited

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this is wood injected under high pressure or dipped.

you asked

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Hey Bugsy, what do you think of permethrin (ant poison) concentrate as a do it yourself termite treatment or preventative

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to which i responded with my opinion.

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But if you have a grid or gutter, like what was suggested earlier, you can just lift it up anyway.

I dont think baits with serve any real purpose for you.
As said before, they dont provide any protection against attack.

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Thanks very much for the advice Bugsy and others, it is greatly appreciated.

I am installing guttering/drainage in a way that will allow me to lift it every few months and check for activity. Totally agree about those traps, then really gave us a false sense of security.

Alex