Kitchens from China

We're in the market for a new kitchen.
There’s an Auction house here in Perth that auction kitchens so no Saturday went and had a look at them. Nothing took my fancy, but whilst there I overheard another bloke ask auction bloke where they come from to which he replied “we flat pack them from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/<st1:country-region>China</st1:country-region> in lots of 20”.
So my question is; Has anyone had any experiences with these Chinese kitchens, bearing in mind that purchasing from an auction its buyer beware ?

If you buy them, whose job have you exported?

My thinking would be unless i was making a very considerable saving I would stick to Australian made. Keep an Aussie working in the trade even if it is only producing flatpacks.

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Originally Posted by echnidna

If you buy them, whose job have you exported?

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Well thats right Bob, and a thought that crossed my mind is how many builders are buying them and ripping off the home owner.

Another thing to consider is the materials they use. A lot of formaldhyde and other nasties is being used in a lot of stuff from china. Do you want extra chemicals in your home just for the sake of a few dollars?

Shane.

Maybe Arms or someone can enlighten us as to whether the requirements that govern use of formaldehyde in production of chipboard in Australia also prevents cabinet makers from using boards not meeting those requirements. In other words, if you buy Australian made, are you garaunteed to have 'safe' materials used in the construction? I think there is more to it than that.

See this thread.

Interestingly the ACCC recently successfully prosecuted a major importer of tools etc on the basis they were unsafe and did not meet 0z standards.

Wonder if the ACCC is going to look at all imports & insist on them meeting standards

Should be fairly straightforward when you think about it. If you have regulations governing manufacture of certain items in Australia - chipboard for example - the same rules should apply to items manufactured elsewhere for import into Australia. Otherwise it's unfair to the Australian manufacturers and makes a mockery of the regulations. That should also extend to people importing products made from those materials. So you would need to prove that not only were the items manufactured according to our standards, but were also made from materials produced or manufactured according to our standards. There it gets a bit difficult but I suppose the onus would be on the importer. No proof, no import.

I've looked at these kitchens in the auction houses in Melbourne. The guy responsible for that section of the auction told me most of them come in assembled from China. ie They are importing boxes of air.

They all have a peculiar purple/mauve tint in the particle board. I have heard that tint is the formaldahyde. Don't know if it's true but who does.

All of the ones in Melbourne have Dunny Rock bench tops. Dunny Rock is that cheap composite rock that used to be used to separate public toilets - these days we are expected to prepare our food on it.

Also noticed most of these kitchens in Melbourne were being acquired by builders. Have to assumed they were being installed in spec homes.

Needless to say, I went in a different direction. I am buidling the kitchen myself.

Bill

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Originally Posted by bfx

They all have a peculiar purple/mauve tint in the particle board. I have heard that tint is the formaldahyde. Don't know if it's true but who does.
...

Needless to say, I went in a different direction. I am building the kitchen myself.

Bill

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Formaldehyde is normally colourless

I'm going to follow suit ... making my own ... at quotes at $16k for a laminex jobby I can see that chinese imports would sell :oo:. This is my justification for buying $4k worth of BS and tablesaw as I'm building my new house. ... Still reckon I'll come out a long way in front and that's before I start on the laundry, bathrooms and build in robes!

well it's a good story and I'm sticking to it :D

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Originally Posted by silentC

Should be fairly straightforward when you think about it. If you have regulations governing manufacture of certain items in Australia - chipboard for example - the same rules should apply to items manufactured elsewhere for import into Australia. Otherwise it's unfair to the Australian manufacturers and makes a mockery of the regulations. That should also extend to people importing products made from those materials. So you would need to prove that not only were the items manufactured according to our standards, but were also made from materials produced or manufactured according to our standards. There it gets a bit difficult but I suppose the onus would be on the importer. No proof, no import.

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australia has the tightest laws governing formaldahyde used in materials in the world ,these chinese crap they bring in does not meet or even come close to the impositions put on australian manufacturers , so not only are we up against cheap labour but also inferior materials ,those that buy this imported rubbish are not only doing aussie kids out of a job but also endangering their health , but a client who bought one of the imported crap kitchens once told me that "hey, i ,m not going to live in the house so why should i care "
a caring /sharing aussie i think not !!!!!!!!

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so not only are we up against cheap labour but also inferior materials ,those that buy this imported rubbish are not only doing aussie kids out of a job but also endangering their health

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Sounds like there is a bit of a discrepancy in the legislation there. But I suppose that the regs regarding use of formaldehyde have been brought about through OH&S to protect workers in factories, rather than consumers. It seems a bit pointless to have regulations on manufacturing here but just allow people to import whatever they like.

I'm hugely skeptical about the lifespan of any of the chinese cabinet products. The board is the closest thing to weetabix covered in thin plastic that I have ever seen.

Think of the cheapest piece of self-assemble 'wood' furniture you've ever purchased from The Reject Shop and....go even cheaper.

The purple colour in some boards may be a dye put in to indicate that its a water resistant board. Or it may be a purple dye put in to make it look like its a water resistant board...or it may be a purple dye indicating "Adhesive Manufacturer's Warning - bad batch of glue, do not use board products, to be disposed of"

Stuff sold through one of these new styled 'auction' houses importing cheap stuff direct from China I'd be even more worried about...they look like the sort of business setup that changes ownership every few years so the new owner can disclaim responsibility for anything done by the old management. Not that I'm suspicious by nature, of course!!

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Originally Posted by bfx

I've looked at these kitchens in the auction houses in Melbourne.

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I have seen some in passing at Gray's Auctions in Cheltenham (Melbourne) and some of them at had Chinese writing on the front edging of the cabinets (where you would expect ABS edging). So you open up the full-overlay doors, and immediately see that the edging on the boards has Chinese writing on it.

Not a good look. It's like having "made in China" stamped all over your kitchen. It's not like it is a brand-name like Miele or Poggenpohl.

Gray's also sell these kitchens in on-line auctions - you would certainly want to inspect in person if buying one.

As to exporting jobs, as an aside, I wouldn't be surprised to one day see whole houses made in China and brought here as flat-packs. Quite a few houses in the US are built that way (but I don't know if anyone is yet making the components in China and exporting them). Lots of advantages e.g. you can build in a factory with every tool you need, no worries about the weather except for the few days it takes to assemble the flat pack. On site work would be limited to foundations, connecting services and landscaping. We might even be able to go to Ikea and buy a flat-pack house. While it would cost a lot to ship a house internationally, a lot of the fittings are already shipped internationally, and the replacement of multiple deliveries with one might mean it evens out on shipping costs and greenhouse gases. Reasons why it might not work economically currently might include that (I would guess) there is a shortage of building materials in a booming country like China.

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Originally Posted by totoblue

I have seen some in passing at Gray's Auctions in Cheltenham (Melbourne) and some of them at had Chinese writing on the front edging of the cabinets (where you would expect ABS edging). So you open up the full-overlay doors, and immediately see that the edging on the boards has Chinese writing on it.

Not a good look. It's like having "made in China" stamped all over your kitchen. It's not like it is a brand-name like Miele or Poggenpohl.

Gray's also sell these kitchens in on-line auctions - you would certainly want to inspect in person if buying one.

As to exporting jobs, as an aside, I wouldn't be surprised to one day see whole houses made in China and brought here as flat-packs. Quite a few houses in the US are built that way (but I don't know if anyone is yet making the components in China and exporting them). Lots of advantages e.g. you can build in a factory with every tool you need, no worries about the weather except for the few days it takes to assemble the flat pack. On site work would be limited to foundations, connecting services and landscaping. We might even be able to go to Ikea and buy a flat-pack house. While it would cost a lot to ship a house internationally, a lot of the fittings are already shipped internationally, and the replacement of multiple deliveries with one might mean it evens out on shipping costs and greenhouse gases. Reasons why it might not work economically currently might include that (I would guess) there is a shortage of building materials in a booming country like China.

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this is called a caravan here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TOTO,

Hate to point it out, but they are already making "apartments" in China and shipping them out in 3 pieces - each piece 4.5 metres x 10 metres long.

They are for a medium density development at Kelvin Grove in Brisbane which aims to create 36 "affordable" 1 or 2 bedroom ultramodern cluster houses.

The apartments are totally finished in a big factory - complete with designer kitchens,designer bathrooms, doors ,windows, cabling, security,lights,painting and plumbing.

The project has been causing a bit of concern amongst builders that it might be the way of the future.

Nevertheless the most expensive apartment/house cost $190,000 and the entire stock was sold in 3 hours when the project was released in June. Only owner /occuppiers could purchase.

I know someone who got in and bought one so I'll be very curious about the quality and workmanship.

doog

had a client come through the shop recently to get us to "fix" the chinese kitchen they had purchased. When we took a look it was made of cheap inferior materials and was very poorly desgined and manufactured. i wouldnt be going near them. There are plenty of reasonable local flat pack destributors.

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Originally Posted by Kayoss

There are plenty of reasonable local flat pack destributors.

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Kayoss, as you're in the game, any recommendations for flat packs here in Perth. Thanks

I'm not sure if freight would make em expensive to perth but I found this mob in Sydney pretty good. I'm getting all the cupboards etc for a bar through them and then I'll clad it and finish it off myself.
Bob K

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Originally Posted by notenoughtoys

I'm not sure if freight would make em expensive to perth but I found this mob in Sydney pretty good. I'm getting all the cupboards etc for a bar through them and then I'll clad it and finish it off myself.
Bob K

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http://www.diykitchen.com.au/index.html

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Originally Posted by arms

australia has the tightest laws governing formaldahyde used in materials in the world ,these chinese crap they bring in does not meet or even come close to the impositions put on australian manufacturers , so not only are we up against cheap labour but also inferior materials ,those that buy this imported rubbish are not only doing aussie kids out of a job but also endangering their health , but a client who bought one of the imported crap kitchens once told me that "hey, i ,m not going to live in the house so why should i care "
a caring /sharing aussie i think not !!!!!!!!

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Just on another note did anyone see today tonight last night talking about the amount of formadahyde in clothes coming in from china? Apparently we dont have a maximum safe level of chemicals but some of the samples of clothing had up to 900% of levels allowed in the US and Europe.
And that was just one of the nasties they found....

Btw most of the time I dislike those type of shows because they are just out to stir the poo but occasionally you see something like this...

Shane.