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Has anyone been watching the ABC British program, Grand Designs? Where they follow the construction of homes or renovations.
Some of the designs and workman ship is just amazing.
It's a shame we don’t have the same kind of craftsmen here in Perth. Just try to find a builder or products with a unique flavor, it's impossible. Unless I am looking in all the wrong places.
Everything is regurgitated display home decor, fittings etc.
Yes!!! Love the show. :)
cheers
Wendy
I have been enjoying the snippets of that show that I have been catching. It's amazing what some of them have been doing! There is a fairly broad spectrum of what they classify as owner builders (I guess similar to Aus), some are doing everything and some are just watching other people work.
A lot of the really good trade stuff is being done by cabinet makers not builders as such. You could get that done here ... but it'd cost a bit!! :)
Hi
I live in the northern suburbs of Perth.
No, I haven't seen the programQuote:
Has anyone been watching the ABC British program, Grand Designs? Where they follow the construction of homes or renovations.
Some of the designs and workman ship is just amazing.
I am SURE we do, they're just harder to find and in high demmand!Quote:
It's a shame we don’t have the same kind of craftsmen here in Perth.
Maybe you are :)Quote:
Just try to find a builder or products with a unique flavor, it's impossible. Unless I am looking in all the wrong places.
It's not impossible, just difficult especially in today's housing market.
With Perth's relatively small population, there is little demand for a huge range of building products. The logistics for overseas manufacturers to sell and supply their products to a smaller retail base makes such products difficult to obtain.
There are GREAT builders around. There are ARTISANS around too! They will all be expensive - more so than usual because of the housing market right now - BUT if you have the money then YOU CAN get what you want :)
As stated before, a limited market with a limited demand makes it hard to justify huge or widely varied imports.Quote:
Everything is regurgitated display home decor, fittings etc.
In the UK, there is a HUGE population there are many more millions (probably) of tradespeople living and working there. These tradespeople will have a better training as "they" (tradespeople) have been doing "it" for SOOOOO long now. There will also be many millions more DIY'ers because they also, have "been at it" for sooo many more years than we in Perth have been.
I'm doing MY BIT :2tsup:
I love the show and make sure I catch it each week. Even the Stinkette enjoys watching it with me. I really like the style of the show and the presenter, there is a good mix of projects and manages to balance the technical information and the personality side well ...... similar to Top Gear. I will have to check out Germany on my world tour though as they seem to do everything better than the British ...... it was so funny watching the Hoff house go up a few weeks ago. The Germans were spot on, right down to bringing over every bolt and screw that they needed ..... the project was delayed by the British crane that had to come from the next suburb.
It is a great show. There is a website that has videos and pics of the projects. And this is my favourite one http://www.channel4.com/4homes/ontv/...y_image18.html
Donna
Yes it is a god show but you must realize the projects chosen for the show are the unique ones and the cost is very high on these homes. Believe me there are plenty of mediocre buildings in the UK same as here. Most builders have to build to a price and this dictates the quality in the finished product. There are some stunning homes built right here in Australia and equal the craftsmanship of those on the show.
Its all available here if you want to pay the price. Unfortunately most of us can't afford to pay that price.:no:
I would disagree. There are some homes shown on the show that are done quite cheaply as they owners have been able to do much of the work. I remember a young couple who did up an old board of works pump house or something similar, it was done relatively on the cheap as they did most of the work themselves. Or the young newly weds who built a small cottage in a hostoric village ..... the real storey in the show is the journey of the owner and their growth through out the project.Quote:
Originally Posted by munruben
You can amagine the Australian version ...... Yeah Sharron and I spent two weekends walking around display homes ..... we found the one we were after, paid the deposit, and three months later moved in ...... wow I will never do that again.
The one I liked best was the guy who had no experience do decided to do his own project management ..... ended up breaking his ankle, his prefinished roof got damaged by rain, and the building ran a few years over estimate and well over budget. They ended up doing two shows on him as he was such a great guy and he still wasn't finished. Great looking building though.
Loved the one last night, ended up looking really classy.
Shhhh ..... havent watched it yet :)
Of course you will always save money doing the work yourself but if you employ someone to do it for you, then the better finish you want takes longer and costs more. I was painting for over 40 years and its amazing how many people wont pay for a top class job but happy to pay less for a job that is okay but not top class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot
The point I was trying to make was all things being equal, Australian tradesmen can match the quality of the craftsmanship in England if money is no problem.
I am not putting the show down by any means, it is a first rate show in my eyes too and just for the record, I am English and did my apprenticeship in the UK.:)
John,
I don't disagree that a better job takes longer and costs more, and that many people are happy with a second class job if it is slightly cheaper.
Just disagree with the remark that the show in question only picks the unique houses with high costs. I feel that the show does very well to pick interesting people who have a real passion for what they are doing, this passion then goes on to create the unique house, some times resulting in high costs, other times not so costly. The real key to the show is not the value of the house but the excitement, commitment and dedication of the clients and owners. A show featuring a billionaire who is simply writing the cheques wouldn't have the same appeal as a couple who are really passionate about the project. From watching the show there are only a handful of projects that actually like, but the journey to completed project is what makes the show a winner.
Watch the show every week, then discuss it with an architect I work with the following day - sort of like a double dose! It seems to me that the UK has a less stringent approval regime (in some places) than here - people designing on the run, doing things without proper structural design, etc. But then there was the bloke building in a forest who had extremely stringent requirements, and would have to remove the house if he moved.
Sort of like Jill's posts with moving pictures and expert commentary!
I've seen snippets of this program, including the one with the curved, sandwhich roof panels with the prefinished ply on the interior side. The thing that I keep asking myself is: "what made this person think that they could design/build/project manage such a complicated building project without any prior experience?" :? Building isn't rocket science or brain surgery, granted, but I've dealt with both a brain surgeon and a rocket scientist and I wouldn't have either of them supervising a building project.
Mick
Thursday nights show was seriously impressive. I'm not sure if I have the stamina to hand cut 4000 slate tiles and lay them all..
I'm sure we do have very good crafts-people out there. I was possibly a little harsh with those comments.
It is frustrating though when you want a to buy an item that isnt designed for the display home market and there isnt anything out there.
I dont know if I agree with the statements about Perth not having the market and I think lots of people would pay a bit more for those one off pieces.
Why should we settle for second best just because we live in Perth.
I think you will find all these artists/craftspeople are out there, it is a matter of finding them. If they were cheap or the current "fashion" it wouldnt be so hard, they would be everywhere. Of course there is always the option of getting an original idea, and learning how to do it yourself. :2tsup:
Donna
Funny, how you guys mention craftspeople etc - the thing I have noticed is how many old fashioned and non mechanised tools they use. Last week was a clangery - the architect guy was amazed by a ramset gun !!! Gee, thats a new bit of gear, never seen one of them........
Second example, is how many times you see an impulse gun - I've only seen them on about 3 shows so far, and plenty of carpenters actually using hand driven nails in frame work - LOL. One mans craftperson is anothers old timer sticking to slower less efficient ways I suppose ;D
My favourite show of the week though, and it is not even remotely a reflection of the UK - the UK is even worse than here for project homes. Though over there project homes are even more old fashioned, and built in village format, then sold off after completion - developers building entire tudor copy villages near the local motorway. Both countries have populations obsessed with comfortable same as the neighbour, same as their grandmothers built type housing - not helped of course by councils who also seem to think the same way, and see historic significance in a cottage designed to last 40 years built 100 years ago!
Loved the winged roof story - I have always thought that good design is also about intelligence of design, so for me, a winged roof belongs on a house with a central partition holding up said roof in the centre, and pre lining was always a disaster waiting to happen - sheesh - its hard enough ensuring a completed house has no leaks, let alone a half finished one!
The savings can be quite significant not just slightly cheaperQuote:
Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot
Appreciate your comment, point taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Stimkalot
love the show watch it every week gets me how they gut a building completely and the outside walls dont fall down with my luck would take a roof tile off and the whole lot would come down
they certainly find some different hse and also interesting seeing the different styl\es of construction and have also noticed that they dont seem to use nail guns etc so much over there i had thought most builders had embraced the things
and also gets me that they build a lot of hses with flat roofs and they are only sealed with tar ( stuff ?) and have never seen a sheet of custom ord used yet lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by chromis
We do! I'm right here:D
On now ! :2tsup:
Total nuts! Bulding that house in amongst all those blocks of ugly flats. They really want people to notice them don't they :rolleyes:
Watched it while cooking dinner. These people are blissfully ignorant of how ignorant they actually are.:doh: I think that when these people manage to end up with a good end productit's more through the good fortune of finding good, reliable and conscientious tradesmen rather than any skill on their part.
Mick
got me that hse amonsgt the flats where are the building inspectors i mean they where cuting lumps of concrete off here and welding steel on there and they never seem to have plans that they have to stick
would like to see a onther show on it revisiting all they hses that arent finished in a year and see what they look like after a yr or to of living in
After reading the forums reports on the show I watched last night. They mustn't have building inspectors like here, welding 3 feet of steel onto a short curved length, I wouldn't accept that. Cutting the 'footing' to suit the wrong windows. And talk about over capitalization, a house costing that in a slum wat is it position,position.position. I was hoping it would be like "This Old House" on pay TV. But I will watch it again.
:doh:
les
Wasn't a bad looking house in its own right, the architects deserve praise, just a shame it wasn't carried out properly by a crew where everyone knew what they were doing! The actual position amongst flats like that was a bit off-putting, but maybe that's London (I think that's where it was:-)
Did notice the lack of nail guns in the framing work, as noted before, so maybe just Australia is big on losing the hammer. Is US the same?
I had pay TV some years back, and if that's the show I'm thinking of, I'm glad Grand Designs isn't!! It was nothing more than a rolling ad for the latest and usually most expensive DIY product, and couldn't watch it again after they finished an otherwise reasonable house with faux timber period window frames, a.k.a plastic!Quote:
Originally Posted by les88
Like you Les, I will be watching it again, just a pity its on at the only time I get to watch the news...maybe that isn't a downside!?:rolleyes:
Cheers,
It is a great eye opener at what others are doing.
The only Australaian show that goes close to Grand Designs is Great Australain Sandcastles but the houses are finished.
When ever we finish a job and it is something special we say to our selfs (me and some of my workers) "This should be on GD".
I worked on houses recenlty that can stand side by side with those shown on GD. all it takes is a designer with a passion for detail and a cilent with deep or willing pockets.
I didn't find last weeks to be the best of shows .... the house was impressive enough but I couldn't stand the woman (client/owner). To think that she could save €100K by doing the project management herself with no experience was stupid. It was just lucky that she had a good team that managed to bring it all together ...... then again perhaps getting the right people made her a good project manager?
Watched Grand Designs last night. The house was built from plans in the bloke's head. No prior submission of plans to the local council or authority for approval before commencement of building. Is this the way it is/common ?
I think you'll find that was construction certification only.
The planning approval took two and a half years, and there were definitely drawings done for that. It was all a bit strange really (the drawing thing I mean!).
Cheers,
P
Great show is't it. There's a new one on Austar at the moment called Grand Design Indoors and another one was Grand Designs abroad. I like the guy who presents it and the way he's honest in his appraisal of the end product. Makes me want to go and buy a block and speak to an architect.....
HH.
Rod,
To answer your question all the usual planning permissions and site inspections are done in the UK similarly to the way they are done here.
There is sometimes a fine line between refurb and rebuild and what does and doesn't require permission, my guess would be there is plenty done inside houses that does not have permission.
HH.
Many of the houses make me wonder why I gave up architecture, but then many of the owners make me remember! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by HappyHammer
Cheers,
P
:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by les88
Yeah that wasnt the best episode that's for sure...
Ok let me put it another way...Quote:
Originally Posted by rod1949
It's a shame we cant say..Hey I want a total obscure looking what ever and find someone to create it, build it or just stumble over it in a shop.
A friend of mine wanted a reno and the wood floor done in the traditional way (over stumps etc) to fit with rest of the house and because they just like the way they sound and feel when you walk on them...That may sound strange to some but that's the way they wanted it. They couldnt find one builder in Perth to do it. All of them wanted to pour a concrete slab and do the lick on stick on style floor boards. In my opinion that's an act of crime on a federation house.
I'm in the market for a reno so if any of you know of any builder/draftman in Perthl that has an inch of creativity, appreciates other building techniques apart from the slap em up display home style, please let me know.
<O:p
It's a top show and I like the honest appraisals given by the presenter.
On Austar they also have him doing Grand Designs Indoors and Grand Designs Abroad, there was a great one in Spain I think it was where a pommie couple built a great looking shell and roof and then along came the wife and added about 5 different periods of finishes and furnishings and it looked shyte and the presenter said so too.
HH.
tonights episode was "belfast". Fantastic house built by nice people on time and on budget - the architect and his wife.
Gives me hope that they dont just choose the seriously incompetent all the time - anyway i want the Belfast house, though the $750k for the building part might be a bit beyond me - need one of those free blocks of land in the middle of nowhere ;)
We do have 'Owner Builder magazine' not the same standards sure but people designing (sometimes or trying to )their own thing. Hopefully in the next couple of years ours will be in there to.
Did you catch last night's episode?...conversion of an old brick barn. What a cack. They seem to always (almost always) choose people that decide to cut costs by project managing the build themselves.
Despite the end result being fantastic the build was plagued with incompetency - mostly from the project manager. The first issue with the head height in the second storey which required them to dig out the ground inside the barn only to find that there was no foundation to the building (ye gads!)...a serious amount of money to underpin was required. Then when they fixed the foundation they poured too much concrete and the same issue of head height remained. By not employing a professional project manager (ie the architect) they actually costs themselves a lot of money.
In the end it cost 420,000 pound - that's about 1 Million kanga-roubles (Aussie dollars to you and me)...and that is just for the house!
It really is an iteresting show - beats those commercial network home shows hands down.
I cant understand why the architect didn't do a site measure before starting any drawings. When Kevin was on site explaining that the floor wasn't level it seems simple enough to see. The owner / project manager seemed to asked the architect for the most basic of services and then had the nerve to then continually request further advice for free.
I laughed when she got the price from the first builder at about 400K pound ...... she thought he was a twat and could get it done for 250K pound so she fired him. After all the problems that she went through, compromising the quality of the project, it ended up coming smack bang on the original estimate, if not over.