Owner build in Perth

Help, We have to owner build.

We have an old weatherboard house (1904) that we are going to extend.

We plan to knock down the old sleepout at the back of the house (Which unfortunately houses the kitchen Bathroom and laundry):(

Anyway the extension will go straight out the back of the house (about 90m2 in total). And will include Kitchen Laundry Bathroom Bedroom and Family room

Is it just me or are builders in Perth absolutely mental. I contacted loads of buiders who either didnt call me back or are to busy and not taking on any more work. I managed to get 2 out to have a look at the place and have had enough.

Both quoted off the top of their heads when we were speaking with them one at 270k with standard specs. The other at 240k. :no:

I guess what I am asking anyone is this.

How could it be that it costs so much to do a timber frame ext.
Has anyone else been in this position (Im guessing in Perth Loads)
Any advice???
<FORM name=vbform onsubmit="return vB_Editor['vB_Editor_001'].prepare_submit(0, 1)" action=newreply.php?do=postreply&t=14816 method=post> </FORM>

If you were not aware, there is a building boom in Perth. So-much-so that most builders, even the so-so ones, are booked solid for two years or more. It has taken nearly three years to get to the point where my (architect-employed) builder is ready to go. And even then, for a job that should take three months (an office above the garage), he is quoting 12 months.

Two years ago I tried to get pavers to do part of the garden. A few came. None quoted. I did the paving and landscaped the garden myself.

You will get rediculously high quotes from those that bother because people are desparate. Supply and demand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Fun aint it? :roll:

Were not doing an extention were doing a complete house 340sq plus 180sq of verandahs on stumps (stilts really) and some of the prices scared the livin shyte outta me!!

Okay stop looking for a builder to do it for you!! THAT IS YOUR FIRST PROBLEM... builders see you coming and its Christmas time!! What you need is a carpenter! Just your everyday builders carpenter with a knowledge of timber framed houses will do the job at a fair price

Mate give Burnsy a hoi and he can put you onto a bloke that can and will do it for you... for a job like yours he would be a fair price :2tsup: goes by the "pay by the day" method and from what Burnsey said to me he works well when hes there so you should get your moneys worth... for mine as its so big and weve been told would take up to 8 - 12 weeks to erect to lockup we had nightmares of what it could end up at!! :o ... Burnsey stands by him so give him a hoi the blokes name is Shane by the way so he cant be all bad... But I reckon the quote he gave me would have been right on the money for a smaller job like yours

Forget the builders!! They a) dont need your work b) can name their own price c) with the housing market the way it is they dont care if they get your small job or not theres so much work on.

Get hold of a carpenter with framed house experience not a builder.

We have had some real dipsticks "quote" for us and finally got a good price and have almost locked him in with a contract so far a verbal agreement but the contracts comin!!... an example of some of the prices we got was another bloke (just a chippy by the way) who quoted $3500 a day with $2000 travel each way per day or $1500 per day for accomadation... and at those prices even Burnseys mate was bloody cheep!!...

If the bloke who weve finally decided on kept going the way he was I was gonna throw in the towel and take a year of to do the damned thing myself!! :C kept adding to the damned price until I jacked up and told him I hadnt signed anything and neither had he if he didnt want the damned job he could just walk away and if he kept it up we would!... he settled down after that... I mean I might be bloody green at this owner builder caper but even I know that "Lockup" means LOCK UP as in a roof on the sodding thing!! he quoted me one price then rang me back and told me it would be more because it didnt include the friggin roof!! LIKE BLOODY HELL IT DIDNT!! then he rang back and told me it would cost me $400 for him to come down and HELP do the levels even after we had agreed that it would be a good thing for a meet and see the block house site and that another bloke would have the gear to do the job and the cost would be a barbie!! He then changed his mind and wanted $400!!... he also caught me at a bad time with that one and coped an earfull... I came close to canning the entire bloody build at that point! gawd it phissed me off!! :~ so watch the buggars! they will try it on

now were starting with the same issues with electricians and plumbers seems most have so much work on doing small jobs that a whole house job they just dont want to know about :doh: so around we go again

Oh and the mob over east that were getting the house drawn up and built by are saying we have to sign rough sketches and doodlings of additions that we want instead of them doing better drawings before we sign and we would not only have to sign the damned sketched doodlings but would have to pay upfront a 10% deposit... BEFORE we get anything substantial!!... geezus even bloody project builders among others get you some decent drawings before you sign and fork the money over!!... buggar of a thing eh?... but there you go just some of the joy joys... and no doubt there will be more to come!!

Anyways... its all good! :2tsup:

Im gonna have to start a blog or somesuch to record all the shyte and goins on I reckon

Did ya watch last weeks Grand Design on the ABC TV ? After the slab was done the house (from Germany to England) was completed in a week. way-to-go

Anyway back to the topic.

Are you going to Owner-Build in the true meaning (apart from plumbing and electrical) or just sub out.

As a true OB it has taken me 23 weeks (one person) to build my 340m/2 steel framed house which included stripping out the old house so there was just the brick shell left for demolition.

The steel framed walls and roof trusses cost $22,000 supply only and was on-site with 1 month.

I have a plumber mate who done all the plumbing (paid of course). Electricians were a bit hard to get and the one that I did get, makes one get frustrated as to if and when he'll show up and thats with him setting the date/s.

As I'm just up the road from you, you're most welcome to pop around for a look/chat etc. PM me and we'll go from there.

Ta,

I have been thinking about going down the steel frame route, that way I could probably do most of it myself.

I might sub out the sub floor but, and maybe get someone in to do the roof, flashings ect

My old mans an electrician but getting him up of his backside might take a fair bit of doing.

Rod would luv to come round and have a squiz and a bit of a chat though

Im doing the OB thing with steel framed construction in perth, has taken 6 months to get everything ready for council, but hopefully they dont take too long and we can be underway ASAP.

Our project as an additional second storey ontop of a double brick house. The steel frames came in at around $17k.

All I can say is keep at it, it takes time, but well worth it.

Steel frame ..................... fantastic, here is a link to my blog/adventure. We were in in 3 months to the day. Still got plenty of little things to do but who hasn't. I haven't updated for a while and I suppose I should as we now have carpets and out kitchen finished ....... stone benchtops :D

I have friends that took possession of their project builder home last Monday. Called Thursday to say our power keeps shorting out and there is a leak in the garage ............ no movement from the builder. I went around there Sunday after 60 mm of rain and had to punch a hole in their garage roof to stop the thing caving in from the amount of water that was in it, the water was running out of the roller door power socket by this stage - no power to the whole house. Wife stayed home on Monday spent all day on the phone, no movement from the builder so she let her husband off the chain at 4.00pm after he finshed work and the builder had an electrician there within half an hour to bypass the wet wiring. And this was all after it took over 24 months to build!!!

http://www.byohouse.com.au/forum4/vi....php?p=906#906

Don't get disheartened, owner building is a fantastic experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bit stressed

Anyway the extension will go straight out the back of the house (about 90m2 in total). And will include Kitchen Laundry Bathroom Bedroom and Family room

I managed to get 2 builders out to have a look at the place and have had enough.

Both quoted off the top of their heads when we were speaking with them one at 270k with standard specs. The other at 240k. :no:

I guess what I am asking anyone is this.

How could it be that it costs so much to do a timber frame ext.
Has anyone else been in this position (Im guessing in Perth Loads)
Any advice???
<FORM name=vbform onsubmit="return vB_Editor['vB_Editor_001'].prepare_submit(0, 1)" action=newreply.php?do=postreply&t=14816 method=post></FORM>

---

About $3K /sq.m for an extension sounds about right to me. especially as it includes bathroom and kitchen (but then I'm in Inner Sydney)

It's probably cheaper and a lot faster to knock down and get a project home thrown up

before you committ, work out the costs of alternate accomodation while you don't have a kitchen or bathroom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ian

About $3K /sq.m for an extension sounds about right to me. especially as it includes bathroom and kitchen (but then I'm in Inner Sydney)

It's probably cheaper and a lot faster to knock down and get a project home thrown up

before you committ, work out the costs of alternate accomodation while you don't have a kitchen or bathroom

---

Too right!! That was one of our options... get a relocator in to remove this place and rent for the proposed approximate year it would take to build... but we decided we could think of far better ways of spending the 15000 that the rent would cost than throwing it out the window and theres no guarentee the amount a relocator MIGHT offer for this place might cover the rent cost.

BUT it was one of our biggest learning curves to date... learning to REALLY consider the options open to us... ALL of them... and SERIOUSLY learn to shop around and REALLY check prices! Getting quotes and really trying to nail them down is a journey in and of itself.

Ours has now taken just over 3 months to get to the point where were about to order the plans drawn up... should have a final quote price today or tomorrow which will include the larger stumps and extra bracing once we tick that off we can shell out some $$$ to them and away we go for the next round!! :2tsup: They are saying between 3 - 5 months for this and the shire section then another 8 weeks for the house build (in sections and packed) and then the trip over should put it here so it should land in the backyard in about 6 - 7 months... then theres the 2 - 3 months to erect it,,, THEN!! Then theres the forever doing the insides!!... and thats only if the tradies do their things properly and on time :roll: So Im hoping to see most of the house standing around Christmas and lockup not long after... hopefully? :2tsup:

Be positive and committed and she should be right mate!!! :;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

...and SERIOUSLY learn to shop around and REALLY check prices! Getting quotes and really trying to nail them down is a journey in and of itself.

---

Right on there. For my steel frame work (walls and trusses) I delivered plans (reduced size) to 6 or so suppliers here in Perth. Went to talk turkey with the initially lowest priced mob being RTS Group in Landsdale with a price of $18,000. They contacted me a day later and wanted a further $7,000. The reason "the plan was not to scale". My reply being "you're kidding, it has all the measurements". They missed out. So be weary of this mob.

The next was Integrated Steel Solutions in Malaga. In trying to get hold of the appropriate person the reply was they are out at the moment, and they never returned phone calls. They missed out too.

And some mobs thought I had a gold mine.

Hi bit stressed

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Wild Dingo http://mt0.woodworkforums.com/images...2/viewpost.gif
...and SERIOUSLY learn to shop around and REALLY check prices! Getting quotes and really trying to nail them down is a journey in and of itself.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
this is so true i'm doing a reno in Baywater also but have disided to keep the brick frame and just redo all the inside and render the outside .

I found itimising each job and then ringing 5 to 7 different companies/people to get a quote is the best way and can save a small fortune i saved $9,000 on the new courbond roof from worst to best quote and $1500 on my bench tops by making one phone call .

biulding costs are crazy in Perth at the moment and the cost realy depends on how busy the person is i got quoted $10,000 to remove a wall and am getting it done for $2,500 .

and just had a tiler say that they quote by the job not the m2 but for 13m it would be about $3,000 to $5,000 that $380 a m2 think i'm going to do it myself if i cant find somebody for $40m2 .

best of luck

My fun starts this Saturday so if your in your garden and here a loud bang on Saturday i probably hit something that i should not have .:C :o

rob

Onya guys
I'm one of you ... bit further out ... out from Bunbury

But gathered my house from block in canningvale before the bulldozers got to it.
10 days and x thousand screws and it was delivered down this way ... so far cost is about $200 worth of grog. 240m2 plus about the same verandah. All frames, trusses and roofing iron 98% OK and about 60-70% of the Hardiplank as well as slow combustion heater etc

Going thru the drawing for council process at the moment.
Be keen to here further experiences .... places to get x or Y etc

You going through the Bunbury council or Harvey Ramps?

What extra bonus stuff do they suddenly want to know must have cant do without that you didnt know about before hand... funny buggars shire people :doh: Mine in Harvey appear for all intents and purposes to be easy going friendly and amiable to every suggestion or intent you have... trouble is I think its going to be damnably different when the papers on the table in front of them!

For one Ive recently been told by two separate people that they stopped their building when the shire stated they couldnt live in the existing house while the new one was built... yet at the stage were at the shire said it was "okay" "no worries" only to say they cant when the approval was knocked back "reapply once you are no longer living in the existing property and it has been removed"

Trouble is they have verbally said the same thing to us... of course nothing in writing... now were starting to wonder.

Another surprise recently was the water authority... seems they want 4000 BEFORE we start to cover the cost of having two properties on the same water usage... Ive tried till Im black and bloody blue to get it through the sheilas head that only ONE house will be connected at any one time the one were in now until the new house is complete and ready for connecting up then this one gets shut down and the other connected if theres a period where the waters turned off to this place prior to the new one being connected then we move out until the waters on again to the new house... she just couldnt understand that so were getting ready to have the "discussion" again once we submit the plans which will include the demolition stat dec so its clear that this place is being demolished once the others up :~

Oh and the other ubeaut?? the bloody power... the electrical costs just jumped! seems that western power is not allowing any more overhead power connections all new ones or replacement ones must be underground... so we have to add the electrical costs up by 40+ mtrs to the front of the property... buggar eh? cop that daddyoh! :roll:

But so far so good...

Oh and you know the soil test and survey we paid to have done the other day? not good enough to the buggars over east apparently... seems the soil test didnt give them the info they wanted so we get the joys of $$ to get the new one done right although they were told initially and on the day why we wanted the damned thing done... seems the whole thing is done differently between here and Vic :roll: So around we go again... the surveys not a biggie will go out and do that tomorrow arvo they were meant to draw in the location of the new house relative to the existing one the shed and the creek but didnt... sigh so no probs will do that... just the sneaky things that your not expecting that tend to drive you ratty

But budget wise its under slightly so were doin okay so far... I think what will make it blow is the electrician and plumber stuff... rip it apart if our recent septic troubles costs are anything to go by but still all good I reckon

The interior were going to pretty much do the lot ourselves so will be busy up and down to auctions in Perth and wherever for all those items and nailing a few prices down on the plaster and wall ceiling stuff along with bathroom kitchen and flooring needs... luckily our eldest has offered to do the lighting through her work as a gift so that saves a bundle right there

We remain reasonably positive we will stay either within budget or just outside we have a reserve budget but really am going to try to avoid biting into it so the budget we have for the house is it... just get to the end of that and see whats left and decide if we need the other (hopefully not) or we can toss it into what remains of the mortgage and kill it off... I think we can do it but it will mean scrounging for good to great deals roving the countryside in the effy with a bloody great trailer attached for auctions and whatever else there is on offer

Our main issue presently is the height and depth of the stumps... rather different rules from here to Vic I can tell you :roll:

Give us a hoi when you arc up Ramps I come do the stupidvisor thing for you... when we arc ours up you can come do it for us!!... aint nuffin like doin the stupidvisor thing on someone elses job! :U :2tsup:

Cheers!

thanks Dingo
Harvey shire was one of the things we considered (avoiding) when we bought a block of land ... their reputation preceded them. We're in Donnybrook-Balingup shire.

As for all those "things" well none of the ones you mentioned will be relevant to us but I know there will be a whole bunch of others but I can't see what they will be as yet.

Talk more soon ... dinners ready

yeah bitstressed are ya mate? the predicament your in and as alot have said go the OB mate.. I am going down that track at the moment but only go that way if you feel you are confident enough to do it bloody hell my brother is an accountant and has no idea about building wouldnt no a screw from a nail..I recently got quoted $80k to put on enclosed outdoor 48 sq deck I laughed in the blokes face,I have totalled the cost for me to do it and subby out what I have to it will cost me round $30k bloody hell I only payed $170k for the 5 bedroom 2 storey house Im living in at the moment 6 years ago

People say there is a real estate boom that is true but does that mean every builder and his dog can rip people off blind..... answer you bet it does

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

For one Ive recently been told by two separate people that they stopped their building when the shire stated they couldnt live in the existing house while the new one was built... yet at the stage were at the shire said it was "okay" "no worries" only to say they cant when the approval was knocked back "reapply once you are no longer living in the existing property and it has been removed"

---

shane,
sounds like a tie up with a local caravan park or rental agent

you could always ask them why? and by what regulation?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Another surprise recently was the water authority... seems they want 4000 BEFORE we start to cover the cost of having two properties on the same water usage... Ive tried till Im black and bloody blue to get it through the sheilas head that only ONE house will be connected at any one time the one were in now until the new house is complete and ready for connecting up then this one gets shut down and the other connected if theres a period where the waters turned off to this place prior to the new one being connected then we move out until the waters on again to the new house... she just couldnt understand that so were getting ready to have the "discussion" again once we submit the plans which will include the demolition stat dec so its clear that this place is being demolished once the others up

---

will you really have TWO properties (i.e. two land titles) on the one meter?
or two houses on the one meter? there's quite a difference you know

me I'd run water to the new house from your side of the meter
even if I wanted to change the location of the meter I'd do this untill I was ready to get the meter relocated

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Oh and the other ubeaut?? the bloody power... the electrical costs just jumped! seems that western power is not allowing any more overhead power connections all new ones or replacement ones must be underground... so we have to add the electrical costs up by 40+ mtrs to the front of the property... buggar eh? cop that daddyoh!

---

you can't leave one wall of the old house and the meter box behind can you — then it's not a new or replacement connection !

seriously $40k to trench how far?, install the conduit and warning strip and pull the wire


ian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ian

shane,
sounds like a tie up with a local caravan park or rental agent

you could always ask them why? and by what regulation?

will you really have TWO properties (i.e. two land titles) on the one meter?
or two houses on the one meter? there's quite a difference you know

me I'd run water to the new house from your side of the meter
even if I wanted to change the location of the meter I'd do this untill I was ready to get the meter relocated
you can't leave one wall of the old house and the meter box behind can you — then it's not a new or replacement connection !

seriously $40k to trench how far?, install the conduit and warning strip and pull the wire


ian

---

Gidday Ian
Mate I spoke with the building bloke at the shire on Friday am and he has no issues with us living in the place and in his words "Im the one who decides and as the present house is being demolished once the new ones built I cant see a problem" so why the others were able to I wasnt about to persist with... dont intend to get him offside :;

No only one title and one house connected at any time... the house we are in until the other is finished and were ready to move over then this one turned off and disconnected and the new ones connected up... thats it one house one title... I think the sheila got her wires mixed as IF it was a subdivision then no worries understandable but since its not then it doesnt make sence... Weve spoke to two plumbers/gas fitters about the connecting and disconnecting timing and they dont understand what shes on about

The meter box thing is probably the same since the telephone sheila is based in the city and again its understandable there... we think she got it crossed since theres a new construction up the road that they have just installed the pole to... so theyre still doing it... but no we cant leave a wall standing

40K?? I said 40 meters!! dont know the cost of it yet but its sure to be more than we expected with a pole connection due to the run and extra wiring... but not 40k to do it

All up were budgetting 50K all up for both the plumber and electrician... which I hope is over super conservative and will leave us with 20K in hand once theyre done but still better to over budget than under and getting a rude shock and have to take from other areas to meet those extra costs that are presently easy to budget for.

Another soil test on Monday... seems they forgot to do the core sample test and so must come back and do that... major phone calls west to east east to west to and fro from me then back and forth from the engineer to the soil mob and back... finally a figure was quoted and it gets done on Monday... no worries its all worth having and will just be added support to get it passed ala more than whats actually required here in WA

Did the site layout yesty... BLOODY HUMUNGOUS PLACE!! :o so thats now done so presently the last two things are in motion the soil test and the owner builders rego... then we can go for it once the plans lob in 2 weeks (all being right that is)

CHeers!