Easy mix for Shellac

Been reading a lot about shellac and most things talk about pound cuts i.e. 2 lb cut is 2 pounds shelac with 1 gallon of IMS (Denatured alcohol). I worked things out for the metric system then started doing up weights (easier to weigh things when mixing than having to use fluid measures!) I noticed something very interesting:-

1 lb = 454 grams (rounded)
1 gallon = 3785 mls (rounded)

Given that IMS has a specific weight of .84 I adjusted the metho for weight per ml.

3785 * 0.84 = 3179 grams

Now if I divide this up against the weight, we get this:-

3179 / 454 = 7 (with rounding)

A 1 pound cut is a 1 shellac to 7 IMS weight wise which makes life easier - now why didn't anyone mention this???:(

For example:-

I have a Jar, put it on the scales and zero them. Put in 100 grams of shellac flakes in the jar. Then while the jar is on the scales I put in 700 grams of IMS and I have a 1 pound cut - all in minutes without any measuring containers:)

Doe sthis all make sense? Do I indeed hava a 1 lb cut sitting in my jar now?

Ciao,

M.

Way too complicated..:o

Put flakes in jar, add metho until just before the metho rises above the top of flakes.

I have no idea of the "cut" but it works for me.

Al :)

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Way too complicated..:o

Put metho in jar, add metho until just before the metho rises above the top of flakes.

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I think a little typo here, should it be "Put shellac in jar, add metho"..

This has always confused me also until recently when I saw a U-beaut product containg 1kg of shellac and the directions stated to add 1 ltr of metho. So from this I will be (haven't done it yet) doing a weight for weight mix. ie 500gms with 500 mil.

Could someone comment if this is right or not.

Squirrel

OOps..:-

Al :doh:

I do it Al's way,
much easier and it works well

Flakes in jar, add metho works for me.:2tsup:.
Jon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Way too complicated..:o

Put flakes in jar, add metho until just before the metho rises above the top of flakes.

I have no idea of the "cut" but it works for me.

Al :)

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And pretty easy too. :2tsup: I'll file this away with rest of my complicated formulas. If it works, I don't ask questions.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Way too complicated..:o

Put flakes in jar, add metho until just before the metho rises above the top of flakes.

I have no idea of the "cut" but it works for me.

Al :)

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... and add more metho as needed for the job :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by squirrel

I saw a U-beaut product containg 1kg of shellac and the directions stated to add 1 ltr of metho.

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Squirrel - The jar contains 220gm shellac flakes to which you add 1 litre of Metho making 1 ltr of French polish, approx 3 lb cut (depending on if you use US lb or Imperial lb)

1 kg to 1 litre of metho would make a sticky sludge or gramophone records. :o

Quote:

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Put flakes in jar, add metho until just before the metho rises above the top of flakes.
I have no idea of the "cut" but it works for me.

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Somewhere between 3-4 lb cut depending on the flakes and the US / Imperial thing.

Cheers - Neil :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Way too complicated..:o

Put flakes in jar, add metho until just before the metho rises above the top of flakes.

I have no idea of the "cut" but it works for me.

Al :)

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It's not too complicated for us... Martink did all the hard stuff, and gave us the results as a simple formula that even makes sense to me!!

No-one has yet commented on the accuracy of his conclusion, though. Guess I'll just have to give it a shot and report back.

The jar contains 220gm shellac flakes to which you add 1 litre of Metho making 1 ltr of French polish, approx 3 lb cut (depending on if you use US lb or Imperial lb)

Cheers - Neil :)[/quote]

Goes to show how well I read instructions. But thanks Neil, with the above measurement I will do it as follows. As I generally buy the 1Kg bag of shellac, what is pretty close to your measurements is to break the Kilo bag into four bags (250gms each). Then mix with 1 litre of metho. Not exact but a bit closer than what I have been doing in the past (don't have scales in the workshop).

Squirrel...

In the current issue (the one with the upside down table on the front cover - must be designed for the land down under I thinks) there is a readers letter that has another calculation for measuring up shellac and meths using only the weight method. Sounds a little more refined method than my math exercise. Might be worth a try:)

Ciao,

M.

There's also a nice shellac article in there too:)

I decided to try the Ozwinner method with the last jar of shellac I bought. I used it bit by bit over a number of weeks.

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Put flakes in jar, add metho until just before the metho rises above the top of flakes.

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I did this any number of times as I used it up. I bought a 1 litre bottle of metho at the same time as the flakes and I only used it for making shellac. When I got down to the last handful of flakes, I put all the metho left in the bottle into the jar and it didn't quite cover the flakes and resulted in a perfect batch of polish.

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

depending on if you use US lb or Imperial lb

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This is the bit that always confused me ... so I started by using Neil's ratio - and then usually diluted it further, anyway. I never mix up the whole litre, and when I tried to convert it down to smaller amounts, I never knew what sort of cut I had, really.

Now I rely more on the colour/viscosity. Not that I'm an expert.

But just to confuse things further - as well as the US and UK pounds being different, there are (according to wikipedia) at least, a further 10 definitions of a 'pound', that have been used in various parts of the world and in different areas of trade, mostly obsolete now. There is also something called the 'metric pound', if you will!

However, in 1958, the US and the Commonwealth agreed to standardise on the 'international pound', equivalent to (approx) 4.536 kg. So in theory we should all be talking the same language here, but I suspect that the pounds cut methods have been handed down through generations of finishers and have outlasted metrification.

So getting back to Martink's original post, I think you end up with a different cut to that of Neil's.

Neil uses 220 gm shellac to 1000 mls of metho to get a 3lb cut, or 73 gms to 1000 mls for an (approximately) 1lb cut.

Using Martink's ratio of 1 to 7 for a 1lb cut, you use 1000/7 or 147 gms for every 1000 mls of metho ('xactly double). (By the way, your specifc weight conversion looks right to me.)

So I guess I'll stick with my process - mix up using Neil's ratio and dilute to suit!

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Originally Posted by jaspr

This is the bit that always confused me ... so I started by using Neil's ratio - and then usually diluted it further, anyway. I never mix up the whole litre, and when I tried to convert it down to smaller amounts, I never knew what sort of cut I had, really.

Now I rely more on the colour/viscosity. Not that I'm an expert.

But just to confuse things further - as well as the US and UK pounds being different, there are (according to wikipedia) at least, a further 10 definitions of a 'pound', that have been used in various parts of the world and in different areas of trade, mostly obsolete now. There is also something called the 'metric pound', if you will!

However, in 1958, the US and the Commonwealth agreed to standardise on the 'international pound', equivalent to (approx) 4.536 kg. So in theory we should all be talking the same language here, but I suspect that the pounds cut methods have been handed down through generations of finishers and have outlasted metrification.

So getting back to Martink's original post, I think you end up with a different cut to that of Neil's.

Neil uses 220 gm shellac to 1000 mls of metho to get a 3lb cut, or 73 gms to 1000 mls for an (approximately) 1lb cut.

Using Martink's ratio of 1 to 7 for a 1lb cut, you use 1000/7 or 147 gms for every 1000 mls of metho ('xactly double). (By the way, your specifc weight conversion looks right to me.)

So I guess I'll stick with my process - mix up using Neil's ratio and dilute to suit!

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I must admit, I have a copy of Neil's bookie and it's never steered me wrong so I'm following his advise! Was just trying to align what I read in FWW with our metric system - and failing dismally:(

Ciao,

M.

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Originally Posted by jaspr

However, in 1958, the US and the Commonwealth agreed to standardise on the 'international pound', equivalent to (approx) 4.536 kg. So in theory we should all be talking the same language here,

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Watch out boys!! 1 pound = 4.5 kg!!!?? I think you may mean 0.4536 kg or 454g. Not to be too pedantic here but we are talking measurement... (I'm trying to recall the last time I measured shellac - no need and too many variables anyway.) Just practise.