filler for recycled hardwood

I just picked up a swag of recycled Blackbutt today. There are quite alot of nail holes needing filling and some gum veins.

The supplier recommended builder's bog tinted with black paint (or tinted resin/epoxy). Both have nasty fumes I don't really want to interact with, require mixing and the builder's bog has a TWO MINUTE :oo: working window before it starts to go off.

Is there some glaringly obvious reason I shouldn't use black Timbermate? The finish will be two coats of Danish Oil plus wax.

Oh, and should I fill the holes before I start gluing up boards and assembling the item?

Steph

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Originally Posted by s_m

Is there some glaringly obvious reason I shouldn't use black Timbermate? The finish will be two coats of Danish Oil plus wax.

Oh, and should I fill the holes before I start gluing up boards and assembling the item?

Steph

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The thing to know about Timbermate is that it will fill the pores around the area that you want to patch and can simply emphasise the patched area unless you sand heavily.
For that reason I like to seal the timber before using Timbermate. This can be just a coat of shellac before final sanding. That way you raise the grain and get a better final sanding. When filling big areas like gum veins it could be helpful to mask around them.
When? Depends on the job. Sometimes its easiest to do most of the finishing (especially of interiors) before assembly. Mask off the glue areas, of course.
Timbermate might be sandable within an hour in a very shallow fill, but nail holes and gum veins would need at least overnight drying.

I like to use timbermate (always a few shades darker than the timber) and i sand it off straight away with the ROS.

Sanding dust and heat from the sander set it off straight away. I have been doing that for years and years with no problem at all.

If its a big hole i use some home made shellac stick and burn it in:)

Thanks for the reply! Anyone else?

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Timbermate might be sandable within an hour in a very shallow fill, but nail holes and gum veins would need at least overnight drying.

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We have a heat gun and according to the Timbermate web site it's ok to accelerate drying with heat?

Would the other fillers I mentioned go into the pores around filled holes to a similar degree?

Steph

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Originally Posted by s_m

I just picked up a swag of recycled Blackbutt today. There are quite alot of nail holes needing filling and some gum veins.

The supplier recommended builder's bog tinted with black paint (or tinted resin/epoxy). Both have nasty fumes I don't really want to interact with, require mixing and the builder's bog has a TWO MINUTE :oo: working window before it starts to go off.

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I have used Builder's Bog to do quite a bit of filling on blackbutt.
I didn't really have much reason to complain. You can lengthen the
working time to maybe 10 mins by decreasing the proportion of hardener
and it still seems to set ok. You'd need to mix a small amount first, keeping
reasonably careful track of the proportions. I had to keep mixing smallish
amounts (about a generous golfball-size amount of base to maybe half-a-pea
of hardener or less). Regarding gum veins, I've dug them out and filled
with Sikkens "Gupa" exterior filler (light-oak) - it was almost undetectable
on the finished item.

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Is there some glaringly obvious reason I shouldn't use black Timbermate? The finish will be two coats of Danish Oil plus wax.

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I must be missing something here... why wouldn't you use a filler colour
that matched the timber colour a bit better?

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why wouldn't you use a filler colour
that matched the timber colour a bit better?

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Because most of the nail holes and other faults have black staining around the outside (and that is what the supplier uses and recommends). Surely they are going to stick out like you-know-what if filled with matching filler - unless I drilled them all out to bare timber?

Steph

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Originally Posted by s_m

Because most of the nail holes and other faults have black staining around the outside (and that is what the supplier uses and recommends). Surely they are going to stick out like you-know-what if filled with matching filler - unless I drilled them all out to bare timber?

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Hmmm... I'm still missing something. If you fill the holes with a black filler,
how does that stop them from showing up even more?

(Please pardon my density - I just want to understand properly.)

wy shouldn't you use timbermate?

well one of the two part resins will hang on better and seems to look better.

particularly on the gum veins and nail holes the partly translucent nature of epoxy or acrillic resin just seems to look better.

I've used plenty of timbermate & it has fumes too.... used in any sort of volume it gives me a head ache without ventilation.


Yeh there are "nasty barin cell killing" fumes from epoxy......
but if you arent fiddling with it for ages and you pay attention to your ventilation you shouldn't be in too much trouble.

Personaly I don't get the "builders bog" thing..... I've been using automotive filler for years and its cheaper than "builders bog" and arguably smoother textured (if you buy a good brand).

If you drill out the black bits it looks like you drilled out the black bits.
If you fill them with epoxy or acrilic resin with some black stuff in it it looks much better in my opinion.

cheers

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Originally Posted by soundman

...If you drill out the black bits it looks like you drilled out the black bits.
If you fill them with epoxy or acrilic resin with some black stuff in it it looks much better in my opinion....

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I agree with that.

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particularly on the gum veins and nail holes the partly translucent nature of epoxy or acrillic resin just seems to look better

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Ok I get that.

So I need to go to Super Cheap Auto (or wherever) and buy what?

Anyone want to recommend a brand?

Does it sand ok? I'll be using a ROS with al oxide paper prob 100-150-240 grit.

Should I do the filling before I do any sanding or at some other point?

Steph

Araldite clear with a bit of "bricky's black" oxide does the trick for small amounts. I use norglass casting resin for larger areas.

It is worth making a small test batch of what ever you select & try it on some scrap.
I used some Sellys Plastibond to fill some holes in a ply speaker box.
The directions say it can be tinted with "Cement Oxide or Paint Tinter"
I tried to use Feast Watson Prooftint Woodstain (black) & it just didn't set properley... it did set & stayed where I put it but it didn't set hard.
The can says "when cured, can be filed, sawn, sanded, planed, drilled, tapped, nailed, painted & have screws driven in."
The result I got was 'None of the above', I couldn't even cut it with a sharp knife without bits of it rolling out of the surface, a sad mess. :(

If you are doing small bits any brand of standard epoxy will work.
some epoxy is clearer than others... if that makes a difference.

black oxide you can get in the cement isle in bunnings

if you are doing larger bits..... casting resin is the go.... bunnings stock diggers you will need a tin of resin and some hardener.

as for filling

with this sort of filling you are best to fill as early as possible. the fill line will come up cleaner that way and less surrounding pore fill.

remember any of the resing will run out the other side if there is a n other side.
so you need to bung that side up.

most of the tapes will not hold with the solvents in the resins particularly the casting resin.
so
clay or flower water dough will work & isnt hard to get out if you want to fill that side too...... is supose you could use stiff timber mate for that of you like too.

cheers

Thanks heaps :bowdown:

I will prob get some Timbermate for the back because all of the boards except one will have the reverse side exposed even if it's on the inside of the cabinet (metal-runner drawers)...

Steph

The main difference in the end result of the different fillers is in the colour. The Timbermate comes out a dark grey while the bog mixed with the acrylic tint or epoxy will come out jet black which in my opinion looks far more natural on the timber.

Ok here is a test panel I did the other night with casting resin tinted with brickie's oxide...

1. Resin in place
2. Sanded and finished with one coat of Danish Oil
3. Closeup of finished piece

The filling job is pretty rough and dirty - several of the nail holes the resin has soaked in and doesn't reach the top any more. When I do the cabinet panels I will stay in the shed for long enough to keep mixing new batches and topping up holes as the resin sinks in.

Btw this panel has way more gum vein than any of the pieces I am using for my cabinet - thankfully they gave me enough for an extra length and I was able to get away without using it. I do have some big holes to fill tho...

Could also get away with less oxide in the final job - was hard to do on the test panel because I only mixed 20ml of resin. I wouldn't mind the resin being a bit more translucent. Geez the 1kg of oxide I bought is going to go a looooong way :).

Tip I got from HWMBO is to use paper masking tape for the back - it sticks just fine.

I am doing only a rough sand of the panels first because they are biscuit jointed and I want to get the surface as close to finished level as possible because I don't want to fill a surface and then end up sanding right thru the fill when getting my panels flat? This is taking ages thanks to the Blackbutt being so hard - am off to Bunnys now to get some more 80 grit discs...

Steph