Help. WHAT DO I DO.

HOW am I suppose to know that this UNobvious line means they have changed the design plans on me?

What do I do? I am so mad. I asked the guy when he came around to measure for the cupboard if there would be a dividing wall between the cupboards. He said no. I asked specifically a few times, because I did not want this. I would have kept looking for someone who could do it without out it, or I would have changed the plan entirely.

I called him up and he said that on the plan there is a line and I should have known that he changed it to add a wall in one cupboard space. I asked him why he did not tell me. NO EXPLANATION except that was the only way it could be done; WHAT did I think they would hang the door off? He asks.

I ask him why he comes around and measures cupboards and tells me he can do it this way, if in fact he can't? Doesn't he know how the cupboards need to be made? He tells me not to go around throwing insults. I tell him it's a simple question. I want to know this. Why didn't he call me, put off making the cupboard if he had to, just to let me know that what we agreed on couldn't go ahead.

He pulls out the drawing and says, there is an extra line there, WHAT did I think that was? pfft how am I suppose to know this. It is a tiny line, that I DID NOT NOTICE. As if I would have looked at it and thought, hey there's an extra line, it must mean they are putting a wall in there.

It was suppose to be 800mm in the half cupboard hanging space, that joins to the next two full length hanging space cupboards. It is pointless having the half one when it is single and a wall between. Just doesn't work, why I asked specifically not to have it.


Mind you the 800mm is a couple of cm off.

I AM JUST SOO MAD, I don't know what to do.

Yeah but what do you expect them to hang the door off? :)

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Originally Posted by silentC

Yeah but what do you expect them to hang the door off? :)

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Honestly, you can't be serious. Why would I ask if they could do it without a wall, if I was to know and thus expect how the door needs to be hung.

:(Not funny.

Well, without actually seeing what you're ranting about, it's hard to say.

It's OK to carry on about it but either he didn't understand you or he's made a mistake in saying it can be done that way and discovered later that it couldn't. Point is, it's immaterial what he might have said, the fact is you need something to hang the door off. You can get upset about it, or you can change your plan, or you can go find someone else who can do it the way you want. It probably needs a mullion or a face frame or something to hang the door off. Or maybe sliding doors would solve it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentC

Well, without actually seeing what you're ranting about, it's hard to say.

It's OK to carry on about it but either he didn't understand you or he's made a mistake in saying it can be done that way and discovered later that it couldn't. Point is, it's immaterial what he might have said, the fact is you need something to hang the door off. You can get upset about it, or you can change your plan, or you can go find someone else who can do it the way you want. It probably needs a mullion or a face frame or something to hang the door off. Or maybe sliding doors would solve it.

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Okay, but in my rant did you miss that I asked him if there would be a wall there? That he told me no. That I asked him a few times specifically because I do not want one... oh and if he was wrong AND he did not know, does that not mean he should call and let me know when he discovers that he can't do it the way I want?

For the bolded bit, yes, if I had been told that he had to put a wall up, then I would have had the opportunity to go and find someone else who could do it the way I want or change the plans.

It has already been installed. WITHOUT notification of the change. He won't fix it now. Sliding doors won't help.

Do a scan of the drawings in question (or take a photo of them) and post them up here.......then we can advise.

Ah, you neglected to mention that last bit. Well, in that case, you can either dispute it with him and tell him it's not what you wanted, not what you asked for and not what he agreed to deliver.

Obviously he either didn't understand how important it was to you, or he assumed you'd get over it.

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He won't fix it now

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Have you paid him for it?

Paid 50% deposit.

Here is a scan of the drawing. I will take a pic of the actual cupboard and post.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3..._81/000001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3..._81/000002.jpg

Makka,
from what I can see, there's two points where a misunderstanding has probably arisen.
1) You not being conversant with symbols etc used in plans. The plan clearly shows that there are two seperate units, the smaller unit having one door and the larger two.
2) The cabinetmaker may have thought that when you asked if there was to be a wall between the two units you were asking whether there would be a stud frame with gyprock either side, or perhaps a brick wall or whatever your house construction is. Strictly speaking there is no "wall" between the two units, just the components that make up the units. Semantics? perhaps.

Let's just suppose for a moment though that he had built it as one unit instead of two, which would have made it an absolute bastard to transport and install and probably more expensive. He would have had to fit a mullion instead to hang the door from. This would still not give you clear access from one section to the other so I really can't see what you would have gained besides an extra 32mm of cupboard width.

I would have built it eactly the same way. Possibly I would have gone to more trouble to ensure that I understood what you were saying and that you understood the drawing, but if you'd asked me to make it with a mullion instead of two seperate sections I would have explained that I would need to asemble it on site and that it would cost you more.

Mick

see pic..

It looks like the partition is on the drawing which you signed off on?

Is the cabinet one piece, or two cabinets (a thin one and a wide one) scredwed together?

The other problem you would have there is support for the shelves above. 1500 is a bit wide to span with no intermediate support.

Sorry makka but if your referring to the 'line' that matrix has drawn an arrow too, to me its pretty obviously a wall/divider of some sort.... I know very little about design plans and cupboards but it sure looks like a wall on the plan to me.........

With that door arrangement, I'm knackered if I can see anyway of getting away from the divider over the drawers between between the half height and full height wardrobe area without risking:
a) the stability (and therefore lifespan) of the left main door; and
b) the weight capacity of the top shelves.

Of course, Old Mate CabinetMaker could have put a small riser in there to carry the hinge instead of the complete divider but would that have made you any happier?

There are most definitely ways of doing it the way makka wanted, but all of them would definitely cost more than what he paid for what he got.

Why was it so critical to have the space open?

Sorry also Makka, it looks exactly like a divider to me, can't get any clearer than that. It is unfortunate that you have misunderstood a fairly basic drawing and feel hard done by, but the cabinet maker seems to have provided you with what you needed to work things out. Perhaps he misunderstood your skill level, which doesn't make him wrong, and maybe he failed to understand what you tried to ask but I actually think what you have is a sensible design.

John.

Sorry guys. He did not misunderstand me AT ALL. He knows what I wanted. He did not dispute this fact. He just said he found out he couldn't do it the way I asked so changed the plans.

DID he inform me. NO.

Do I look like someone who would understand the diagrams of a drawing. I don't think so. How am I supposed to know this detail, when I have never dealt with drawn plans before.

I will just add: The builder said he thought it was strange the way it was designed. He said the space was way too small to hang clothes. He said that if we changed the height of a shelf he could have take the wall out. He thought it was weird dividing a single space like that. He said he thought the draws were even way too deep. But he just followed the plans.

So now I am assuming this is the first job this guy has designed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Makka,
from what I can see, there's two points where a misunderstanding has probably arisen.
1) You not being conversant with symbols etc used in plans. The plan clearly shows that there are two seperate units, the smaller unit having one door and the larger two.
2) The cabinetmaker may have thought that when you asked if there was to be a wall between the two units you were asking whether there would be a stud frame with gyprock either side, or perhaps a brick wall or whatever your house construction is. Strictly speaking there is no "wall" between the two units, just the components that make up the units. Semantics? perhaps.

Let's just suppose for a moment though that he had built it as one unit instead of two, which would have made it an absolute bastard to transport and install and probably more expensive. He would have had to fit a mullion instead to hang the door from. This would still not give you clear access from one section to the other so I really can't see what you would have gained besides an extra 32mm of cupboard width.

I would have built it eactly the same way. Possibly I would have gone to more trouble to ensure that I understood what you were saying and that you understood the drawing, but if you'd asked me to make it with a mullion instead of two seperate sections I would have explained that I would need to asemble it on site and that it would cost you more.

Mick

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Sorry that actual drawing was the first one, which he changed. The door goes all the way down as the others do.

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Originally Posted by martrix

see pic..

It looks like the partition is on the drawing which you signed off on?

Is the cabinet one piece, or two cabinets (a thin one and a wide one) scredwed together?

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Uploading some pics.

This is the spot where he told me there would be no wall divider. Just the frame to hold the doors.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../111111111.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...bear_81/c1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...bear_81/c2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...bear_81/c3.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martrix

There are most definitely ways of doing it the way makka wanted, but all of them would definitely cost more than what he paid for what he got.

Why was it so critical to have the space open?

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Because that is the way I asked specifically. I put my hand through the old frame to show what I wanted to make sure. I asked him if I could put my hand through and there there there wouldn't be a wall stopping me?

Because I know that a wall divided on a coat hanging space of a one cupboards space takes away the usefulness of it. When the clothes can all flow together, it is more efficient, especially space wise. I would have redesigned the whole cupboard if I had to put a wall there.


And yes the builder who put the cupboard in said that it could have been done. It wouldn't have cost more, it was just a matter or changing to the height of the shelf above and the height of the hanging space.

The designer said everyone gets their half hanging spaces made to this height. The builder questioned it, thinking it was unusual. It is way to short.

OK, well with the cup hinges used on the doors, there's no way really it could have been done any other way. You would have had a strip down there at least 100mm or so deep to take the hinges anyway, or some contrivance up the top to take the top one at least. In either case, fiddly and flimsy and far from perfect.

To be honest, I think it would seem strange to have that void behind the middle door. It needs to close against something or there would be a gap that you could see between the door on the left and the middle door.

Two doors instead of three might have been better. But can you explain why you have an issue with the partition in the first place? Personally I can't see the disadvantage in it being there.

Not wanting to add fuel to the fire, but I'm interested to see that the drawing shows only 3 doors, but the photos show that 6 have been installed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentC

OK, well with the cup hinges used on the doors, there's no way really it could have been done any other way. You would have had a strip down there at least 100mm or so deep to take the hinges anyway, or some contrivance up the top to take the top one at least. In either case, fiddly and flimsy and far from perfect.

To be honest, I think it would seem strange to have that void behind the middle door. It needs to close against something or there would be a gap that you could see between the door on the left and the middle door.

Two doors instead of three might have been better. But can you explain why you have an issue with the partition in the first place? Personally I can't see the disadvantage in it being there.

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If it couldn't be done, I would love to have been informed before the cupboard was built.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by makka619

Uploading some pics.

This is the spot where he told me there would be no wall divider. Just the frame to hold the doors.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../111111111.jpg

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The plan clearly shows there is a divider.

Al :?:?:?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by floobyduster

Not wanting to add fuel to the fire, but I'm interested to see that the drawing shows only 3 doors, but the photos show that 6 have been installed!

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Because I asked for 6. He drew it up as 3. I don't know why. So he drew over a print out in red pen to show it with 6.

Same with the longer door, he changed that. We never asked for the drawers to be shown. He told us he couldn't cover with the door without coming in a few mm. Asked what way we wanted it and we chose the door to cover the drawers.

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

The plan clearly shows there is a divider.

Al :?:?:?

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Okay that's good to know NOW.



But why wouldn't he tell me?



I am a young female. I don't deal with woodwork daily or ever. Notifying me of something like this would be nice.

Well, your original question was "what do I do".

Your options are:

1. Live with it
2. Refuse to pay the balance and get him to come up with a solution that you both agree to
3. Rip it out and get someone else to do it

Apart from venting steam over it, I can't really see what other option you have. If it was me and I was that upset about it, I would fix it myself. Been there and done that, you know "if you want it done properly you have to do it yourself".

I should have known that a line there meant that he was installing a wall. I should probably study building before hiring someone.

At least I know now that if I am told it can be done one way, and they decide it is easier to change it, they will not bother telling me to see how I feel about it or work out a solution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by makka619

Because I asked for 6. He drew it up as 3. I don't know why. So he drew over a print out in red pen to show it with 6.

.

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I think maybe someones wires got crossed up right there.

Theres not much you could do to successfully modify it (without it ending up patchy) now with the way it has been made.

Like SilentC, I don't see a huge advantage in not having that small partition there, but then again, I'm not female and most of my clothes live on the floor.:rolleyes:

It looks like a pretty neat job anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by makka619

Okay that's good to know NOW.



But why wouldn't he tell me?



I am a young female. I don't deal with woodwork daily or ever. Notifying me of something like this would be nice.

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Not wishing to pick a fight.
But, that sounds like a cop out.

With the plans, if you didnt understand them, you should have got someone who does to explain them to you.

Al :)

Curious. How much is he asking for the whole lot ?

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Originally Posted by apricotripper

Curious. How much is he asking for the whole lot ?

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$1160 it says on the quote in an earlier thread
Jedo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Not wishing to pick a fight.
But, that sounds like a cop out.

With the plans, if you didnt understand them, you should have got someone who does to explain them to you.

Al :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by makka619

I should have known that a line there meant that he was installing a wall. I should probably study building before hiring someone.

At least I know now that if I am told it can be done one way, and they decide it is easier to change it, they will not bother telling me to see how I feel about it or work out a solution.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by apricotripper

Curious. How much is he asking for the whole lot ?

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$1215

He was not going to give me those plans. I asked for a written quote and description.

He would not have told me of the change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentC

OK, well with the cup hinges used on the doors, there's no way really it could have been done any other way. You would have had a strip down there at least 100mm or so deep to take the hinges anyway, or some contrivance up the top to take the top one at least. In either case, fiddly and flimsy and far from perfect.

To be honest, I think it would seem strange to have that void behind the middle door. It needs to close against something or there would be a gap that you could see between the door on the left and the middle door.

Two doors instead of three might have been better. But can you explain why you have an issue with the partition in the first place? Personally I can't see the disadvantage in it being there.

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Well you know how I feel about it, it's what I wanted, and what I asked for. He said yes.

The builder said yes I could have done it the way I wanted if we changed a couple of dimensions.

So there you go, if only i knew.

Damn me and my chatter in tech studies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentC

Well, your original question was "what do I do".

Your options are:

1. Live with it
2. Refuse to pay the balance and get him to come up with a solution that you both agree to
3. Rip it out and get someone else to do it

Apart from venting steam over it, I can't really see what other option you have. If it was me and I was that upset about it, I would fix it myself. Been there and done that, you know "if you want it done properly you have to do it yourself".

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Thanks silentC.

Macca,
It's a lesson that's hard in the learning but the reality is, unfortunately, if you want something done the way you want it then you have to do it yourself. That way, when it turns to s**t, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

You'll see dire warnings on this forum about messing with stuff that needs a licensed tradesman - especially electricity. <O:p
In those situations you really have little choice, but the problem is that if it was just hooking up the wires or the pipes or taps, where they have the expertise, correct tools, and relevant certifications, then you have to accept that what they do is as good as it gets.
BUT what happens when these "specialists" have to turn their hands to another skill, to complete the job?
<O:p
That's when the plumber resorts to hammer to bash a hole in the bottom of your cupboard to get to the pipe he's just cracked while trying fit a compression fitting.<O:p</O:p
That's when the “sparky” uses any old bit of bent up metal he can find rattling around in his truck to complete a difficult ceiling fan installation, and so on.
<O:p</O:p
It's been my experience that most of these specialists make up their mind what they are going to do within a very short time after seeing the job. You can stand there for as long as you like explaining exactly what you want, and why you want it, but it makes not the slightest bit of bloody difference because they are not listening.
<O:p
That's why I have a driveway that slopes the wrong way<O:p
That's why I have house extension slab that is 10 mm lower than the original and which, by the way had to boxed up three times because the bloke didn't know what a right angle was.
That's why the cupboard doors open the wrong way and the drawers are on the wrong side of my computer desk.<O:p
That's why our air conditioner didn't work correctly for nearly two years because of over gassing.

Oh, and you got an additional problem - you're a woman!! So what would you know? (SWMBO just threw that in)
<O:p
I've probably offended all the tradesmen on this forum, but fair dinkum, you blokes are your own worst enemy, and if the caps fits........<O:p
<O:p
Ian<O:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian Smith

<o></o>
I've probably offended all the tradesmen on this forum, but fair dinkum, you blokes are your own worst enemy, and if the caps fits........<o>:p</o><o>:p</o>
Ian<o></o>

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Hey...... you havent insulted Bricklayers.....I feel left out.. :(:(
And I didnt need my wife to tell me that either..:U

Al :2tsup: