Are boys always naughty?

Or is it the parents responsibility?

Jasmin had her birthday party on Saturday. She invited a lot of friends mostly girls. It was a lovely days except the 3 boys, 3 little bastards.:mad:

3 boys, 2 of the boys are brothers. I know them from Rhonda’s mothers group. When 3 of them get together they are very naughty.

Anyway, they went into the cubby house. One of them stood behind the door to stop the girls going in. The other 2 trashed the whole place, kicked and turned everything upside down.:mad: The girls kept yelling “Open the door open the door”. I went up there to see what is going on. OMG it was bad. Jasmin’s cooking set was broken into pieces. The poor girl just cried and cried.:(

Opened the door and all boys out. Told my wife that the boys are not welcome in my house anymore.:mad: The parents said nothing like they always do.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I mean you’ve got to do something about it. My Jasmin is a good girl and usually behaves very well but I will never let her get away from being naughty. The least the parents can do is let them tell their kids it is wrong to damage someone else’s things. Instead they take the easy option. Quite frankly they are doing the kids any good.

What’s your view?

No Wongo,
Thats not typical boys thats just bad behaviour. You cant always blame the parents some kids are just shyts but mostly I recon the blame should be directed to parental discipline.
I've got a 6 and a 4 1/2 yr old boys, great kids, polite and generally well behaved.
Thats because they know what sort of behavior I expect from them and they like pleasing me and other adults.:)
They also know the consequences of bad behaviour.:eek:
They are boys tho so you expect them to push the envelope from time to time and they do get carried away but they know not to damage other peoples thing etc.
Sounds like the three you had over or at least the ring leader needed a boot up the backside.:mad:

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Originally Posted by Wongo

Or is it the parents responsibility?

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Absolutely.

We had about 12 boys around a few weeks ago for my son's 5th birthday party. They were, without exception, well behaved and polite. They all played together well, did what they were told, and ran amuck! Had a good time but nothing got broken. Better have a word to Jasmin about the boys she is hanging around with ;)

They need to be jumped on early, a stern voice and a threat is all most need but a kick in the backside is a good exclamation mark... Trouble is these days that will get you in deep doodoo.

However did you read of the baby in the paper this weekend? 7 broken ribs, lungs full of water, was on life support for a week then they sent it home to the father who caused all the damage.

Has to be a balance and a hurt pride is all thats needed to instill respect for others.

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Originally Posted by bennylaird

They need to be jumped on early, a stern voice and a threat is all most need but a kick in the backside is a good exclamation mark... for others.

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Benny thats sums it up I'd say I used to be quite strict with my boys when they were real young, now I just have to give them THE LOOK and they settle down.:)

Wongo,
The parent's response identified the problem, very graphically. Who allows their children to damage someone els'e property and does not react with apologies and offers to make good?:mad:
My two sons are adults, now and I have my grandson (21/2),at least one day each fortnight, for our time. I have seen changes as he has been exposed to bad behaviour of other children at play and kindergaten, but it does not remain because he knows what is approved of and what is identified as bad and not approved of. He does not want to lose love or be roused on, so he can be re-taught. But if there was no reaction to the bad, why would anyone change?:(
Also, you hope your children are angels when they are out. I can still remember some young boys who were angels around adults and proper little B****ds when they thought there were no adults watching.:mad:

Why not do the boys a favour and ask the parents what they suggest be done about the trashing of your daughter's cubby and contents? The issue should be addressed.

My boys are 24 and 22 and I am pleased to say they have great values. One will be a primary teacher soon the other a plumber. May have given them the occassional smack as toddlers but nothing more. My plumber son has been hurt before outside the pub but that was when he stepped in to stop his mate from being bashed, he had a black eye but the other guy faired much worse. Son is 6'4" and usually the bullies back away. My worry is some gutless mooron will use a knife as seems the trend.

All we did was brought them up with our own values.

Wongo, what are these kids parents like? I'm guessing the are either to soft or are have values none of us want to see in people?

I think that the boys have been let down by their parents. A little bit of behaviour correction when they were young would have avoided their now potential destination - gaol.

I am sure the parents will feel bad when they hear their sweet boys have been raped and bashed in gaol by bigger bullies but they only have themselves to blame.

Sounds like the whole family is a waste of space.

I don't attribute this lack of respect to the kids being boys.

I congratulate you on your cool approach Scott, if it had been me, my gross annoyance might have resulted in the parents being assaulted - definitely insulted.

The boys are not Jasmin’s best mates, not by a long way. They have been in the same mothers group for a long time. That’s all.

I spoke to my wife last night. Asked her to have a word with the parents next time they meet – today. If they stay defensive then my wife will leave the mothers group. Apparently the other 2 mothers also feel a bit tired of the boys too. Last year the boy hit one of the girls in her face.:mad: The mother of the girl got really unset. Still don’t know how he could get away from it.:mad:

Looking at the 2 brothers (5 and 3) makes me wonder why does the 3 yr old behave exactly the same as the 5 yr old. It has to be the parents, they are soft and they are protective. :mad: The thing is you can't really tell them what to do. And if they do want to discipline their own kids then it is not much I can do.

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Originally Posted by Wongo

Or is it the parents responsibility?

3 boys, 2 of the boys are brothers. I know them from Rhonda’s mothers group. When 3 of them get together they are very naughty.

What’s your view?

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Hi Wongo,

So why invite them if you knew there was a good possibility of there being trouble given their past record:confused: . Personally we don't invite kids to our house who have not been bought up with the correct values. It is unfortunate that most of the girls at the party will now think that all boys are like that which we know isn't true.

When I was doing my apprenticeship many years ago one of the guys working in our section came in one day and told us his son (who was only 4 at the time) had on the previous day gone into a small womans clothes shop with his mom and had got into the display window area and pulled down all the mannequins (who had clothes on them). When asked what did the mother or he plan on doing to the kid they said nothing - they actually thought it was funny and boys are like that at that age:eek:. I know if I had done anything like that, my feet would not have touched the floor the the next week and rightly so.

There are too many parents these days who won't smack their kids because they are afraid of being disliked (by the child) for it. I feel the kids are being let down (a disservice) if they are not made aware of the difference between right and wrong.

David

I've got four sons, and the best advice that I was ever given is that boys (a) need boundaries, and (b) need to know that those boundaries will be enforced fairly, promptly and consistantly. And as Teddy Roosevelt once said, speak softly and carry a big stick.

If any of my boys did that to other kids, they'd know about it, quick smart.

People say it's hard being a parent... well duh!

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I will never let her get away from being naughty

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There's the answer Wongo.

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Originally Posted by Bleedin Thumb

Benny thats sums it up I'd say I used to be quite strict with my boys when they were real young, now I just have to give them THE LOOK and they settle down.:)

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Nailed it, Bleedin. :)

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Originally Posted by Wongo

The boys are not Jasmin’s best mates, not by a long way. They have been in the same mothers group for a long time. That’s all.

I spoke to my wife last night. Asked her to have a word with the parents next time they meet – today. If they stay defensive then my wife will leave the mothers group. Apparently the other 2 mothers also feel a bit tired of the boys too........

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Sounds like there are a few families that need to leave the group in protest, and then form their own......might be that only one family is left in the original mother's group.

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Originally Posted by Wongo

I spoke to my wife last night. Asked her to have a word with the parents next time they meet – today. If they stay defensive then my wife will leave the mothers group. Apparently the other 2 mothers also feel a bit tired of the boys too. Last year the boy hit one of the girls in her face.:mad: The mother of the girl got really unset. Still don’t know how he could get away from it.:mad: .

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Mate there are no bad kids only bad parents

Don't get your wife to leave the group , it is proberly a group she gets heaps of support out of , stuff us males just don't understand and never will , My advice is that she talk to the other mothers in the group and ask the mothers of these disruptive (for want of a better word ) to leave
Mate think how much does your wife get out of being able to and mix with other mothers the same age and how often does you daughter interact with kids the same or similar age.
It is a fact of life there are a-holes out there and there are bad parents and you can't protect your kids forever much as we would like to, the best we can do as parents is to edcuate warn and bring up ours with respect and morals then hope
Or if all else fails or someone needs a good talking to ( for want of a better term ) then as a dad we step in and sort out the problem



And old rule of thumb " You make me daughter cry then I WILL make you cry"

Rgds

It is definatley in the up bringing. Parents with nice kids are fair but strict and parents with feral kids think the kids will learn as they go. Without proper guidance they turn out to be shytes.

Its the parents not doing their job.

I teach English to kids, lots of them. Over 300 per month.

The boys here have some fascination of jamming their hands into, err, certain anatomical areas I reserve for people I am very familar with, ie: myself and myself alone.

When they do this to me, as they always do the first time I teach them, I grab their hand, not hard but enough to know that their is lots of strength there and it would be easy to break their hand off, look them in the eye, say no (in Japanese) and let go.

Stops it instantly.

This is because an awful lots of kids here get away with murder, so to speak. The parents do not believe their kids do anything wrong and do not scold them very often for anything. So the poking (and other things) gets left unchecked.

I let them know one single time that I am running the show, and I will not let them get away with anything 'wrong' and they become angels, simply because they realize that someone will not put up with it and will do something about it.

Something nobody has ever done before for most of these kids.

I'd never ever hurt them, but I will not tolerate that kind of thing, be it to me or to someone else.


Lots of the imports here have kids, lotsa boys, and they are all very well behaved, period. In comparison to, not most, but a large number of locally born and bred kids, they are absolute angels. They play hard, don't pull any punches, but they sure as heck do not cross the line (often) and when they do they know all about it instantly.

So, it's the parents. And they will have to reap the seeds they unknowingly sow.


I just hope the little fella here turns out alright. ;)

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Originally Posted by Schtoo

I just hope the little fella here turns out alright. ;)

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But just don't beat yourself up if he doesn't. I've seen much heartache also from loving good parents whose kids still go off the rails. Uno, try everything, but to no avail.

I agree entirely parenting influences much...so is very important.....still I think theres a bit of the genetics involved as well ....... some kids can't help being themselves, which unfortunatly is not always how we'd like them to be.

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Originally Posted by bennylaird

They need to be jumped on early, a stern voice and a threat is all most need but a kick in the backside is a good exclamation mark...

Has to be a balance and a hurt pride is all thats needed to instill respect for others.

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Spot on. My kids (one of each) have had their moments, but the knowledge that Dad WILL come down on them if they go overboard has meant they are mostly pretty good. It's not rocket science - just consistency and clear boundaries.

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I agree entirely parenting influences much...so is very important.....still I think theres a bit of the genetics involved as well ....... some kids can't help being themselves, which unfortunatly is not always how we'd like them to be.

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This is very true. I know of a few kids who, despite their parent's best efforts, have turned out to be very pleasant well balanced kids. One of my son's mates has been shunted from pillar to post in the last couple of years because his mum is a smack head. She loses the plot every now and then and the Grandparents have to go in and rescue him. Doesn't even know who his father is. Some other loser was playing Dad but he got turfed out a couple of weeks ago. Despite that, he is a great kid.

His mum was a problem child at school. She was charged with assault at 16 for beating someone on the school bus with an iron bar. Her parents are good friends of ours and they have another daughter who has made something of herself. Ask them what went wrong and the wont be able to tell you. One turned out OK and the other lost the plot from an early age.

There are too many situations like these to just write it off as the parent's fault. I think that within certain limits, you can have an impact on how your kids turn out but just watching my two, I know there is a lot of hard-wired stuff that you can do nothing about.

Not a good situation Wongo, and I think you handled it pretty well, I mean without arcing up. A splinter mother's group is the next step me thinks!

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Originally Posted by Wongo

And if they do [not?] want to discipline their own kids then it is not much I can do.

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Yep, you've got to step a fine line here. A few years ago I didn't fully consider the outcome...at a fairly frequent gathering of some families (all mates) the littlest boy kept yanking my daughter's hair, hard. :mad: This was an ongoing problem for many months, and Aella has long hair and it always ended in her tears, so I kept telling her to keep her distance. No one seemed to think it was the boy's problem, so no discipline there. Well, one time too many and this particular night I let out a very loud & exasperated "NO (insert name)! Stop pulling her hair!" as I rescued my daughter out of the little bugger's clutches. Well wasn't I the biggest asrehole that night!! One of the party was a Danish psychologist...and the Danes are very much into children's rights and no smacking (which I didn't do). So we had a few words, and I couldn't get through to her about my child's rights, and how it upset me to see her in pain. The long term outcome is that from that moment these parents (once our best mates:( ) never felt comfortable around us, because of my possible reaction to the boy's wayward behaviour (I felt vindicated in the long run, a very problem fella, identified at school, etc), it all blew up and we no longer see them. The cause as far as I'm concerned was a classic example of the mother repeating like a parrot, benign "Don't do that" with no follow up. No real discipline.

Regards,

Mate i have two boys 14 & 12 (almost 13) and we have our fair share of trials etc.

I tend to agree with ashore. Most of the trouble is that the parents are not able or not willing to do the right things by their kids.

Our job is to raise adults, not kids. We're not here to be their best mates (although I would love that opportunity), we are here to make them into the men & women they need to be.

That means they get taught about things like respect, honesty, courtesy and if people don't like that well tell them not to worry and to surround themselves with people they enjoy being with and that dont put them down etc.

Dude, the mothers group is good for your wife if it brings something of true value for your wife if it doesn't she could find a some "new" friends in a different more rewarding environment.

Finally, like Ashores motto, mine is "Don't mess with me or mine". Those kids would've been kicked out and their parents called straight away to get them to pick them up. Remember, "Lifes too short to eat bad food" (and associate wit poorly mannered people) and if the parents don't like it tough titties, who is more important, those ratbags or your daughter ?

Oh yes and of course Meerkats have a pretty strong family ethic too.
:D

AndyMac,

we are constantly being made to feel it is wrong to complain about poor treatment by others.

I will not tolerate bullys or poor behaviour, if it's a quite word with the child or parents don't work then something like what you did can make a difference, it highlights to everyone what is going on and may shock the parents into stopping the behaviour.

We have an obligation to prevent our kids from being subjected to negative things, this varies from secondhand smoke to assault.

One great thing that came out of this is that your daughter saw you come to her rescue and that my friend will stay with her (and you) for life. After all what are daddies for ?:)

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Originally Posted by Andy Mac

Well, one time too many and this particular night I let out a very loud & exasperated "NO (insert name)! Stop pulling her hair!"

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Sad isn’t it? Because the moment you did that you became the bad guy. The parents would say something like “They are just kids”.

I hate (and stop) going out to dinner with the mothers group. I know the boys will run wild, scream and annoy everyone in the restaurant (and the owner). The fathers would say nothing and it really irritates me.:mad:

The mothers had a bit of discussion yesterday. 2 mothers agreed that what happened was really bad. The mother of boys wasn't there and the mother of the brothers apologized.

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Originally Posted by Andy Mac

The long term outcome is that from that moment these parents (once our best mates:( ) never felt comfortable around us, because of my possible reaction to the boy's wayward behaviour

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Sounds like no loss - if friends don't have the same value system as you do, hard to remain friends. And the well being of family is much more important.

G'day Wongo,

It comes down to disciplne. Depending on what they've done determines the discipline hannded down IMHO. When I was a kid and did something naughty it would range from no TV for a week or my dad making me get the strap from off the fridge and giving it to him so he could give me a belt, sure it hurt.

But that's the trouble these days, I'd say at least 1/2 the parents nowadays think discipling your kid is a no go. I even know one family who let their kids do what they want and think that they'll learn from their mistakes. :confused: :eek: with no discipline whatsoever. Like hell they will, most spoilt brats I know off. :mad:

I'm not saying a smack is the only answer, but discipline comes in many forms. And teaching respect of others also plays into it.

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Originally Posted by Waldo

G'day Wongo,

. When I was a kid and did something naughty it would range from no TV for a week or my dad making me get the strap from off the fridge and giving it to him so he could give me a belt, sure it hurt.

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Hi Waldo,
I'm glade those days are behind us frankly, as a kid I used to cop the belt, shoes, wooden spoons, jug cords... I could never sanction an adult getting stuck into a child like our parents generation did.:(

Mind you I'm also a firm believer in a good smack when needed, it doesnt have to cause pain just hurt the pride.

A mate of mine gave me some advice when my first one was due on the scene he said "Never hit your kid in anger" I thought that sounded like very good advice.
After a couple of years I realised what a crock that was;)

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Originally Posted by Bleedin Thumb

No Wongo,
Thats not typical boys thats just bad behaviour. You cant always blame the parents some kids are just shyts but mostly I recon the blame should be directed to parental discipline.
I've got a 6 and a 4 1/2 yr old boys, great kids, polite and generally well behaved.
Thats because they know what sort of behavior I expect from them and they like pleasing me and other adults.:)
They also know the consequences of bad behaviour.:eek:
They are boys tho so you expect them to push the envelope from time to time and they do get carried away but they know not to damage other peoples thing etc.
Sounds like the three you had over or at least the ring leader needed a boot up the backside.:mad:

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Amen. Too many 'enlightened' parents nowadays simply won't discipline their kids. I think all kids need to know the line in the sand. Society imposes these limits on everyone and if its not reinforced in the home at an early age they'll either end up getting the #### kicked out of them or they'll end up in jail.

Commiserations Wongo, and stick to your guns. Make it clear they're not welcome till the behaviour improves. In future don't forget also that these little pr1cks have a habit of 'falling down' sometimes. :D

I was reading some article in "The Age" a few months ago that said that the majority of bad kids (boys & girls) were from single parent families. It must be hard for not only the kids but the parent. One minute you are the kid's best friend and the next you have to discipline them for being naughty.

There was a segment on either TT or ACA about girls as young as 14 having babies to qualify for the baby bonus from the government. unfortunately it appeared that most of them were only having the kid(s) to help pay of debts. One girl who at 17 already has 3 kids (from different fathers) wants to have many more because she doesn't want to work and by having more kids the more benefit(s) she will receive. As she says there are enough rich people in this country who can afford to pay the tax which will feed down to her & the kids - what an attitude to have:(.

Hi

When my first son was born an old cockie said to me that kids are just like border collies,

"ya got two years before thier brains close over and ya cant teach em new behaviours"

My boys are loved, cuddled, spoilt with gifts and time, but very much disicplined.

I have taught them to look over to me if I whistle in a certain way. Sometimes its to praise them with a smile or a wink that they are doing good:D , sometimes if I want them where I can motion them over :) or the bad one......:mad: :mad: :mad: a slow shake of the head from side to side to indicate an immediate change in behaviour is required.

Failure to comply and they are put on a " YELLOW " :o card just like in soccer, another infraction and they are on a "RED" :mad: card and are out of the game and lose priveliges.

As little tackers a red card means they lose thier current favouritist thing which goes on a shelf out of reach.

The big fella now loses XBOX or simpsons or something similar.

This is the end of the red card and they go back to yellow again. Good behaviour over a short period and they are off that as well. We have found this works really well and you dont need to yell or shout or smack, though a double red results in one ;) .

The other thing is never be afraid to give other children who are misbehaving direction, speak firmly, calmly and pleasantly and tell them to please stop doing that. Any parent who gets the darks over that is not worth being around anyhow:rolleyes:

cheers


dazzler