Sikkens VS Oil

Hi Everyone,
I have just completed my Merbau deck its approx 10mx7m, so fairly big. I have just contacted a local floor sander for a price on sanding it all back - he basically said that its not worth sanding it back and its too hard to get an even sand.
My question is though.... I'm tossing up between oiling and using this Sikkens product that everyone talks about.
I want a glossy or shiny finish on my deck - but i'm told oil is no match for sikkens - I have no idea what sikkens is, just been told that it is about $500 for 20L.
I dont want ot use something that wont give me a shiny/gloss finish that will last. I'm aware that i will need to re coat every year, which doesn't bother me - just dont want to use the wrong stuff.

Please please help - as I want to get into finishing the deck in the next 2 weeks - its been down now for 2-3 weeks and been washed lightly 3 times with a hose and broomed off.

G'Day, Simon.

That's fair size deck you've got going there.

Neither Sikkens or Oil will give you the gloss finish you desire for your deck.

For obvious reasons you can't use interior type Urethanes on exposed decking.

So, my best tip is to look into this product here called DEKS OLJE
This product will give you a gloss finish that might last a little longer than any other Marine type varnish.

These glossy Marine Varnish products are not really recommended for high traffic areas, so, if it's going to be a busy deck put some hard thought into it before you try it. Also, along with most things glossy it will be pretty slippery when wet.

Ohh, and by the way the deck can be sanded flat, and in fact should be for best results.

Good luck with this project, as it's a big area to fix up if it's not done right the first time 'round.

Dusty.

Hi Dusty,
Yeah your right it is big and i'm a firm believer of "do it right first time"
I'm not after a fully gloss look like enamel - just a bit of shine to it rather than dull looking timber. I'm not sure if I would be real good at applying that Deks Olje - and probably wouldnt have the budget for it either. This will be a fairly high traffic deck.
What will sikkens look like as a finish?
Cheers
Simon

Anything that would give you a semi gloss finish is going to be something that sits on the surface of the timber. Oil soaks in and gives you the colour but a flat finish. I imagine the Sikkens stuff would be the same, but have not used it myself.

Personally, I think that a flat finish is much better for this sort of application because it will not show up wear and tear anywhere near as much as a higher sheen finish would. There is a marine gloss from Norglass that is OK for high traffic areas but I wouldn't use it on a deck, it just wouldn't look right.

The other thing is I would leave it a bit longer if I was you. You might want to check one of the other recent threads here on the same topic where people have talked about what the tannin in Merbau will do to your finish if you put it on too soon. Mine has been down for nearly three months and it will be lucky if it sees any oil before Christmas.

Sikkens will look fine.

In fact one of their products CETOL DECK comes in a Satin finish which is a fair step up from the normal Matt found in most decking oils.

Maybe this is the one your looking for?

Dusty.

Hi, We've got a lot of hardwood timber decking around our place and I'm in the process of building an additional deck (around 100 Square Metres). We're probably after a similar finish to you but more importantly don't want to have to re-coat every 6 months which is what we found with oil finishes.

We researched this a bit and found a product called Intergrain DWD. This product is a 2 part finish - 1st one seals it then a hard finish. We've found it to wear extremely well and give a very natural timber look. This is probably a more glossy look than I would like but that sounds what you're looking for.

I've never heard of sikkens being used on decks, its generally a product used on Windows/doors and it a fantastic product - for that purpose.

Hi Stuart,
is this the stuff http://www.woodart.com.au/a_intergrain07.htm, approx how much for 1,5 or 10 Litres. Do you know where this can be purchased? Looks exately like what I'm after just judging from the pics on the link.

Cheers,
Simon

PLease what ever you do don't use Intergrain! I have seen many times this stuff failing. Looks great for the first 12 months but after that its an absulute mess. It peels straight off due to the weather extremes we have no control over. Use 2 pac marine exterior gloss. NB; no finish is perfet for outside but this your best chance. Also, Im a bit worried about you saying you washed the deck down. Make sure the timber is VERY DRY before coating.

This is all too confusing.... :confused: So after my final washdown leave for at least a week or two?
Well it gets to 43plus degrees here and overnight can get to as low as -2 so yes its very extreme - so you recommend a 2pac marine exterior gloss and definately not the Intergrain (Pitty coz I liked the look of that finish, but will want a lasting finish as well).what do you know about the CETOL DECK finish?

Sorry mate but I needed to warn you. I have heard though that sikkens is good.

Sikkens can be found right here

Dusty

SORRY TO BE A PAIN BUT WOULD THIS BE SUITABLE?
http://www.floodco.com/Flood/Product...Product+Pg.htm
AND DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE AND WHAT ITS WORTH?

There ya go.

Give that a run. Here is the australian distributor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SIMONLEWIS

SORRY TO BE A PAIN BUT WOULD THIS BE SUITABLE?
http://www.floodco.com/Flood/Product...Product+Pg.htm
AND DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE AND WHAT ITS WORTH?

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Sounds like the same product as the Intergrain.

My research suggests that any coating is a problem as soon as the weather gets to it. I have seen Sikens look awful after just 6 months of sun and rain.

The only way around this is to use an oil. Not the best either because you need to re-coat every 6-12 months.

I have asked similar questions to yours and no-one seems to have a standard answer.

I have decided to allow my deck to leach tannin for 8 weeks, then a light sand with my Canterbury buffer and then 2-3 coats of Feast Watson's decking oil. This stuff looks magnificent on the steps I built.

Another thing to keep in mind: any hard finish is most likely going to need to be stripped back to bare timber if you need to replenish it. If it's the kind of finish that flakes as it breaks down, you wont be able to just recoat it. Oil is easy to recoat and easy to repair. If I was you I would sit down and have a long hard think about it. Weigh up the pros of oil vs. the cons of anything else, especially in regards to long term maintenance. Is a high sheen finish that important to you?

I am a big fan of a good high quality Deck oil. The reason is that oil will absorb into the timber over a time and preserve it. As it needs re oiling, all you do is brush on a coat in the areas that look dry . Most decking products will last about 12 to 24 months before it will need touching up. Any top coat system will require a sanding back. But oils only need to be re coated. Sikkens and intergrain are excellent products, and i have used them both, But i personally would choose Feast Watson Deck oil.

The other factor to take into consideration is that over a long period of time , i found that a top coat system started to deteriorate and looked shabby, With the oil, the timber went dark like all timber does, but it still looked fresh with no coating flaking and delaminating. On decks that are subject to high exposure to sun and rain, the traffic areas faded and the non used areas around newell posts and along the wall did not wear with the rest of the deck and looked untidy. With oil it all seemed to blend and with wear came a character to the timber.

I have also seen 15 year old decks that were coated in 7008 polyurethane, That deck looked awesome, It worked because the deck was under cover and had no sun exposure on it, any rain exposure was fine , I would coat my deck in a poly if it was sufficiently protected from the Sun. The grain stayed visible all through out that length of time, The deck also looked prestigious. Look at your application environment and do some sampling while you are waiting to do your deck. Each coating precess has a different look to it.

I just read your post again and saw that the floor sander said it was not worth sanding. That contractor is not worth considering his opinion. Sanding a deck is a common procedure with floor sanders and it is also possible to get it flat and smooth. Keep ringing around , you will find one that will do the job for you. If that other sander knocked you back, then he is not a tradesman and would have stuffed up your deck. Get it sanded, you will love the results.

Hi Larry,
Yeah I have now made the decison to use the Feast watson decking oil - seems like the sensible thing to do. The deck does get a lot of sun even though it is undercover. So you would recommend definately getting it sanded?
How do I know when the tannins have all leeched out? I have washed it a few times and it seems like its just dirt thats washing off.
If I use the floor sander and then use the deck cleaning product and then finish with feast watson - does this seem like the perfect soulution?
What will happen if i dont wait for tannis to fully wash out?
Cheers for all of your help mate

Just getting it sanded will be fine without using a deck cleaner. As soon as you get it sanded then it needs to be coated . You will love the outcome. When you apply the deck oil it will seal it and you wont get tannin leech. If you are able to get under the deck and seal it that would be good also, but if you cant then thats OK. Sealing the underside helps in containing the tannin. Feast Watson is a good choise. Have fun

Wow Simon you are going through everything that I went through on my Deck.. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=36164 .. I still would like a Semi gloss finish although I really do not want to have to re sand my deck every year.. I used the feast watson jarrah on a light colour wood.. Would be interested in seeing some pics of yours.. Good Luck! :D

Larry,

two questions with the sanding.

Should the sanding be done with the belt sander or the large rotary (progress/canterbury)?

Presumably 80/100 grit would be the go?


Cheers

I'm having a great deal of trouble finding a person who will sand a deck in mildura. :mad:
What will be the difference in the end product if I didnt sand the deck before oiling - or is it worth hiring a sander and doing it myself - is it something that anyone can do, or is there a knack to it????
Cheers Guys

For what it's worth, I'm not going to sand mine. There are two, or probably three reasons (although two of them are really the same).

1. The edges of the boards are arrised and I have arrised all the ends of butt joins. Sanding all the boards to an even thickness will remove the arris from many of the boards.

2. You have to punch all the nails before sanding.

3. I'm too lazy (see reason 2).

I'm sure it looks great but reason 1 is enough to stop me doing it, given that my decking varies in thickness quite a bit.

I hired a floor sander to sand the joins in my particleboard flooring. It cost about $70 for the day plus a few bucks for the belts. Not hard to handle but I guess there's a danger you could dig it in if you're not used to it.

I would use a belt floor sanding machine. If it is a new deck i would grain in (sanding length ways) starting of with either a 80# or even a 100#. To get under the bottom rail of the balustrade , use a long noise hand belt sander. If yo wanted to polyvac it with a 150# that will be fine. It will present it better. Make sure you punch down all the nails first at least 3mm below the surface. You dint want to hit any of them with the sander or you will get sanding lines. You want a piano top finish. This sanding procedure will only needs to be done every 10 or more years apart. The end result is a prestigious Finnish and your deck will look superb.

By the way . dont attempt to do it your self. get a contractor in . to save your self some money, get him to sand only. Specify the grit for him to finish of with. 100# and 150 or 180# on the polyvac. Dont worry it wont be to smooth that you will slip on the surface. Nabob has slipped on a gloss finish ploy floor. You do the coating. If you use oil you wont need any machinery to sand in between coats. With oil all you do is vacuum between coats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SIMONLEWIS

I'm having a great deal of trouble finding a person who will sand a deck in mildura. :mad:
What will be the difference in the end product if I didnt sand the deck before oiling - or is it worth hiring a sander and doing it myself - is it something that anyone can do, or is there a knack to it????
Cheers Guys

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Where is mildura

Hi Larry,
Mildura is about 4 hrs from adelaide and 6 Hrs from melboure on the border of NSW and VIC. At the top of VIC.

Thanks Larry for the sanding schedule. I'll post some pics of before and afters once I do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Extracare

Thanks Larry for the sanding schedule. I'll post some pics of before and afters once I do it.

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Cheers mate, glad to help.

Hi guys.
I've just layed a merbau deck, punch and putty, sanded with a belt sander. I used a weatherproof high gloss polyurethane from Feast Watson. It says on the can that it's suitable for marine aplications, but I just went to their website and it says that it's not suitable for flooring. Whoops! Oh well. It looks great anyway but it's only about three weeks old at the moment. Most of it is under cover but we'll see how it looks in a year or so. I don't mind giving it a light sand and a re-coat every year.

Hi Guys I read your thread with great intrest having been through this many times before with clients. I have used Cabots, Feast Watson & DWD, I think they are all as bad as each other. (except for the new cabots (timbershades, I thought that was good stuff but that jobs only 6mths old, we will see how it lasts) ) I just used the 'Flood' Spa & Deck stuff on a BBQ bench made from decking for a client and i must say i'm impressed with it you can tell it's not going to skin, so no blistering or peeling! It soaked in really well, so good protection & the color was great. Also very easy to apply, no odours or sticky chemical gunk! When it comes time to touch up all that will be required will be a wash and recoat. I would use it again.

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Originally Posted by pawnhead

Hi guys.
I've just layed a merbau deck, punch and putty, sanded with a belt sander. I used a weatherproof high gloss polyurethane from Feast Watson. It says on the can that it's suitable for marine applications, but I just went to their website and it says that it's not suitable for flooring. Whoops! Oh well. It looks great anyway but it's only about three weeks old at the moment. Most of it is under cover but we'll see how it looks in a year or so. I don't mind giving it a light sand and a re-coat every year.

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Weatherproof poly is a little softer than floor stuff. W/P poly has UV inhibitors in it to filter UV rays from the sun, also it is more elastic to allow for excessive movement in the timber. That is why it is softer, so it is not really suitable for heavy foot traffic,all you will get is that it may scratch .