light wiring problem

hi all this is my first post.

today i installed 9 down lights, all fairly straight forward 3 x wiring connections, but when i got to the last light, i found the wiring was very different from all the other lights i had done, this is what i found;

wire one, had three inner wires, 1 x red, 1 x black, 1 x green/yellow
wire two, had three inner wires, 1 x red, 1 x black, 1 x green/yellow
wire three, had two wires, 1 x red, 1 x black

the above wires were connected to four point on the light housing as follows,

point one, all three red wires connected together
point two, both green/yellow wires connected together
point three, two of the black wires connected together (these are the two black wires from wire one, and from wire two mentioned above, the three wire wires)
point four, one black wire connected on its own point (this is the black wire from wire three, mentioned above, the two wire, wire)


my new light's has three connection points, and are as follows;


L
(A SYMBOL) i guess this where the green/ yellow wires will connect
N


does anyone know how i can wire in my new light's three connection points, to my old original light's, eight wires ?


any help will be very nice, and enlightening so to speak, it's a little dark in this room now. thank you

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does anyone know how i can wire in my new light's three connection points, to my old original light's, eight wires ?

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It has been said before, If you have to ask these sorts of questions then you should be paying a electrician to do the work.

I can understand what you are trying to do and can see how they are wired. However for your peace and mind call an electrician in to do the work

thanks for your genuine concern, but with, or without you, i will get it done, it's just a matter of connecting-all-the-dots, it's just that at the moment, when i try to connect the dots, i trip the fuse. don't worry i'm not going to electrocute myself, i got a good trip system.

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Originally Posted by hologram

thanks for your genuine concern, but with, or without you, i will get it done, it's just a matter of connecting-all-the-dots, it's just that at the moment, when i try to connect the dots, i trip the fuse. don't worry i'm not going to electrocute myself, i got a good trip system.

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The problem is this.
If someone here advises you, and you follow their instruction and you die or your house burns down.

Who are you, or your kin, or insurance company going to blame.
I for one wouldnt be foolish enough to give such advise for all the world to see.

Call a sparkie.

Al :)

Listen to what the people on the forum are telling you.

If you have to ask about electricity then call the electrician.

Colours alone do not determine what is active or negative in lighting loops

You are playing with danger you are endangering your life and others!!

I absolutly agree with simo on this call a spakry. Your mad if you don't as you never know what may happen.

There are two things that should be left alone in a house, electricity and gas. Eventually you will move on from that house and what you will be leaving behind is sub standard wiring. If you have any consideration for safety and what you are leaving behind to an unsuspecting future owner get a sparky.

John.

Hologram, what you are doing is very dangerous.

You are describing the wiring of the switch into the circuit. This can either occur at a light fixture (as yours does) at a light switch or in a junction box.

Comments like this frighten the sh*t out of me

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(A SYMBOL) i guess this where the green/ yellow wires will connect

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You don't seem to realise the seriousness of what you are doing. Electrical circuits will be there for the life of the building, hidden behind the walls. If you do not even know how to earth a light then you should stick to painting walls. Wiring rules are there for the safety of electricians and for the safety of your family and any future occupant of the house.

Do everyone a favour and get an electrician to wire it up for you, tell them you were stupid and tried to DIY and maybe they will have pity and help you.

We are a lot friendlier when it comes to non electrical things :)

Cheers Pulse

thanks again, but i got it working today, actually it was quite simple, two different light were connected to the same junction (hence the double wiring) and the other two wires were for a switch, which controlled one of the two lights.

i shouldn't have come here asking for help, purely because, after having studied the 8 wires more closely, theres' no way anyone could have understood what it was, i was trying to explain, so you were all right, in trying to deflect me from attempting it.

but i do thank you all for your concern.

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Originally Posted by hologram

thanks again, but i got it working today, actually it was quite simple, two different light were connected to the same junction (hence the double wiring) and the other two wires were for a switch, which controlled one of the two lights.

i shouldn't have come here asking for help, purely because, after having studied the 8 wires more closely, theres' no way anyone could have understood what it was, i was trying to explain, so you were all right, in trying to deflect me from attempting it.

but i do thank you all for your concern.

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Stupidity wins the battle yet again.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by hologram

thanks again, but i got it working today, actually it was quite simple, two different light were connected to the same junction (hence the double wiring) and the other two wires were for a switch, which controlled one of the two lights.

i shouldn't have come here asking for help, purely because, after having studied the 8 wires more closely, theres' no way anyone could have understood what it was, i was trying to explain, so you were all right, in trying to deflect me from attempting it.

It is a pity that you do not listen to advice you may have the lights working but are they safe and comply with AS/NZS 3000??

What price do you put on a persons life??

but i do thank you all for your concern.

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Fark me :eek::eek::eek::eek:, one day someone who has posted here will get killed :(. This forum's title should exclude the word electrical & just be called "plumbing, heating, cooling"

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Originally Posted by Redgy

Fark me :eek::eek::eek::eek:, one day someone who has posted here will get killed :(. This forum's title should exclude the word electrical & just be called "plumbing, heating, cooling"

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Redgy I have to disagree, I think this post illustrates the fact that people will wire illegally anyway. What this forum missed was the opportunity to help someone to do it properly. The attitude of "don't touch it - its dangerous" is perpetuated throughout this country yet we have the highest rate of electrocution in the developed world along with Northern Ireland. Countries that allow DIY wiring such as NZ have much lower rates.

More people get electrocuted because of old wiring in split steel conduit that is not replaced because the owner doesn't have a spare $6000 to rewire the house.

I think it would be better if there were clear books available explaining how to wire things around the house. The industry doesn't want it to change either. I've heard attitudes from sparkies like "screw him if he doesn't want us to do the whole lot". What we need is a change in culture away from regulation and towards an open, collaborative approach between the home-owner, electricians and authorities.

Just my thoughts anyway
Pulse

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Originally Posted by Pulse

Wiring rules are there for the safety of electricians and for the safety of your family and any future occupant of the house.
Do everyone a favour and get an electrician to wire it up for you, tell them you were stupid and tried to DIY

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pulse

What this forum missed was the opportunity to help someone to do it properly. The attitude of "don't touch it - its dangerous" is perpetuated throughout this country

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Not wanting to be rude here Pulse but have you not just perpetuated this yourself?

Anyway my point is that it's too easy to misinterpret things written in public forums so that the question might not be understood & the wrong advice given OR the advice is perfect & technically spot on but not understood properly by the person seeking the help. We have no idea of how much is understood or misunderstood which is what worries me about handing out electrical advice online. I am much more obliging when actually talking to someone in person as you can gauge a bit about how much is sinking in.

Just my thoughts too Pulse :cool:

Cheers
Redgy

Well if your place is old, the lights may/will possibly be looped at the light, thats where the twin may come into it, either the red or the black in the twin will be a feed or switch wire. the one used for a feed will be terminated in a looping termial on the old light fixture, in a BP Connector or soldered and taped along with the main feed from the board. But like everyone else has said, call a Sparky. Dont be a bloody cheapskate. For one, doing your own electrical work will void your insurance, and is illegal. and two life is not something to be toyed with. dodgy wiring can lead to fault/ or fire. dont be stupid. And if u dont take our advice, please make sure the circuit is open, switch the circuit beaker off or pull the fuse before you play with any cables.

Good point Redgy,

That is why I stopped giving advice to hologram, I wasn't sure it was being understood correctly.

Its just a pity that there isn't a culture of open and frank discussion when it comes to the electrical industry - I really think it would be more beneficial to have a list of things you could DIY with instructions, rather than every corner hardware store saying in small writing - "must be installed by a licenced electrical contractor" - knowing full well that it never happens

Cheers
Pulse

I tend to agree with Pulse on this one. If someone is going to work it out no matter what, surely it would be better to enlighten them on the correct way to do something. Is that, after all, one of the main purposes behind forums like this?

The reason there is no information available to us Aussies is because it's a highly regulated industry. Perhaps the rationale might be 'don't give them any information and they'll leave it alone'. Wrong. Don't give people information and they'll more than likely do it wrong.

But, if it's information you seek, check out NZ web sites. There's a lot of info there and they have, I'm lead to believe, most of the same standards we do. Or check out TAFE bookshops, apprentice sparkys have to get their reading material from somewhere.

Having said that, Redgy makes an excellent point about talking to someone in person to get a better feel for exactly how competent they may be.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Cheers,
Anthony.

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Originally Posted by atregent

. Is that, after all, one of the main purposes behind forums like this?

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The purpose of these forums is to lend a helping hand to those that need it, not to give half asred advise to someone who may by your advise kill themselves.

I wouldnt like to give the advise that was asked for, only to find out that he got electrocuted by doing what I advised. :(

Al :)

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Originally Posted by hologram

i shouldn't have come here asking for help, purely because, after having studied the 8 wires more closely, theres' no way anyone could have understood what it was, i was trying to explain, so you were all right, in trying to deflect me from attempting it.

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That's right you shouldn't.

Notwithstanding that, as Pulse said, it may be better if we are allowed to do our own wiring etc, the fact remains it is illegal.

You were asking our assistance to help you break the law and if we assisted we would be party to your illegal acts. Aiding and abetting illegal activities is not something anyone, especially a newcomer with their first post, should ask us to do. :mad:

Especially someone who can't even properly describe the problem. :mad:


Peter.

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Originally Posted by hologram

hi all this is my first post.

today i installed 9 down lights, all fairly straight forward 3 x wiring connections, but when i got to the last light, i found the wiring was very different from all the other lights i had done, this is what i found;

wire one, had three inner wires, 1 x red, 1 x black, 1 x green/yellow
wire two, had three inner wires, 1 x red, 1 x black, 1 x green/yellow
wire three, had two wires, 1 x red, 1 x black

the above wires were connected to four point on the light housing as follows,

point one, all three red wires connected together
point two, both green/yellow wires connected together
point three, two of the black wires connected together (these are the two black wires from wire one, and from wire two mentioned above, the three wire wires)
point four, one black wire connected on its own point (this is the black wire from wire three, mentioned above, the two wire, wire)


my new light's has three connection points, and are as follows;


L
(A SYMBOL) i guess this where the green/ yellow wires will connect
N


does anyone know how i can wire in my new light's three connection points, to my old original light's, eight wires ?


any help will be very nice, and enlightening so to speak, it's a little dark in this room now. thank you

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I have the same problem what was your solution? Been trying to work it out and driving me crazy. Otherwise does anyone know a good electrician (doesn't charge an arm and a leg) who can quickly fix this.

There's a lot of half cocked electrical work that goes on simply because the person doesn't understand the dangers.

But an abstinance campaign that leads to continued ignorance isn't good.

Assuming Australia's electrocution rate is high (and from reading the safety reports it seems to be caused by either other trades drilling/cutting into live cables or ...strangely enough...qualified electricians working on live switchboards), it seems unusual to think that it is the general public at fault.

A quick trip to your local TAFE bookshop will unearth the books that apprentices use - and should be in the library of any home owner attempting anything more complex than unplugging an appliance from a GPO.

(now can someone tell me the correct way to use a megger???)

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Originally Posted by Search

I have the same problem what was your solution? Been trying to work it out and driving me crazy. .

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You read this thread and then asked that question? :? At least send hologram a PM. Strewth! :wink:

Why are the alarm bells ringing on the idiot monitor again?:?

I have to say something here.

The Story-
I encountered this situation several years ago when a "mate" attempted to wire up his own fan/light he got form Kmart. After about 6 attempts of wiring it up each time resulting in the fuse blowing or the lights not working he rang the Sparky (Me).
After pulling the fuses to the light circuts, I climb up the ladder and I touched the cowling on the fan and recieved an electric shock.

He terminated the looped active into the earth terminal of the fan causing the fan to be "alive". He had also managed to cross the power and light circuts when he wired up an outside light which is why the light circut was still live (backfeed) after the fuses were pulled.

Not only did he endanger himself but every one else who walks in the house. All for the sake of saving a $100.:doh:

Quote"Assuming Australia's electrocution rate is high (and from reading the safety reports it seems to be caused by either other trades drilling/cutting into live cables or ...strangely enough...qualified electricians working on live switchboards), it seems unusual to think that it is the general public at fault."

Bear in mine the general public (DIY Cowboys) don't reliably report electric shock incidents, whitch is why there is no data to reflect the reality.

Electrocutions do get 100% reported as there is usualy a bit of explaining to do when there is a dead body involved.


I am not trying to feather me own nest here and keep sparkie work exclusive to sparkies.
I believe there is a need for a more education about electricity.
However the old saying "a bit of knowledge can be dangerous".

There is a good reason why it is a licenced and regulated trade.
IT CAN KILL YA!!!!!!!

My two bobs worth
Ben

I'm happy to see electrical work done only by suitably licenced people.

It the getting that licence that is my gripe. The only way to obtain the qualifications is via an apprenticeship - which, unless you do when you are in your teens (and don't have a mortgage, kids and so on to support) you are pretty much out of luck.

I would like to see skills based assessment - if you can show that you can do connect/disconnect residential work, fine, here's your ticket. If you know one phase from the others, and know how and where to run cable, here's a ticket that lets you do new installs.

As more of the current generation of tradies retire, the skills shortage may just force something like that to happen. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by hologram

don't worry i'm not going to electrocute myself, i got a good trip system.

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Im a lic'd spark & in my 25 years i have had my share of belts & hook-ups. The only one that came a hairs width from killing me was on a cct with an RCD that decided to pack it in. I stood there & felt ever cycle of jibbers for a few seconds until i managed to free myself. I have seen hook-ups break vertebra in a fellas spine through muscle contraction.

You are walking into in a world that is not for you mate..believe me.

Its interesting that in Nu Zulund, which has the same standards as us that you can DIY most home based electrical work - you can;t make board level changes.

You can do a weekend course on home electrical repairs.

Their rate of electric shocks is lower than ours per capita, assuming that the DIY isn't reporting his near misses there either.

The basis of adult education in the modern aged is that it is better to educate than legislate.

Whilst I'm qualified too conduct electrical work - I'm not qualified to replace the brakes in my car - yet I'm permitted by law to do that. Go figure....

Anyone want to buy my car? Its well maintained - honest:wink:

Finally! :2tsup: I have actually managed to come across an aussie D.I.Y. site of this nature, when compared to the number of overseas hits I get on a search engine such as google. It probably has alot to do with licencing regulations overseas, or lack of them, when compared to over here in Australia.

I 'm not wanting to be a killjoy here, but some of the posts that I have read on this topic alone have definitely convinced me that the electrical trade should be heavily regualted and licenced, indefinitely! Everyone is probably aware that electricity is something that not one of our five senses can detect, that is until you are hooked up:o.

Nonetheless, open discussion about this topic is not necessarily a bad thing, on the proviso people don't try this at home:q .


Just some food for thought.