changing life's directions

As a few of the forum members who i exchange PM's and e-mails with will know I have been laid up for the last 8 days with a bad back. I've had back problems before but never anything i couldnt fix in a couple of days with the right stretching etc. This time its different, nothing I can do has made any impact on it at all so I went to a chiropractor this morning.

She says that I will recover full strength and movement and the pain will go away eventually, but she also said that if I keep doing the things I'm doing its just going to get worse over time. I guess that my spine has had a rough life, 20 years in the army followed by 8 years running my concrete garden edging business with all its heavy lifting and bending. I always said i didnt want to be still doing concrete edging when i was 50, but i'm only 46.

So it looks like i might have to start looking seriously at making a living out of my woodwork. I might have to look at making little things like boxes and kids furniture so that i can handle them without straining my back. fortunately ive got all the gear i need (note i didnt say "want") to get started commercially and ive even had people, including retailers, approach me for timber items.

Its funny how life happens, no sooner do i develop my hobby to the stage that i can go commercial when i want to, that it appears that i will need to.:)

Bad luck about the back, but I reckon that turning your hobby into a money spinner (especially as retailers are asking for your work) sounds like a lot of fun and also a better idea for your health. :D

Cam

Just hope that you don't lose interest in your hobby, I am a keen (alright, fanatical) fly fisher and I started my own importing business, it went well but I suddenly lost all interest in the sport.
I sold up a few years ago and now I am making some inroads to enjoying it again.
The main problem I found was the wanker element, I can cast 150 feet blah blah blah, and lose sight of what enjoying it is all about.
Could see the same thing happening with WW.
Is it possible to subcontract your concreting business, just do the marketing and get someone else to do the heavy work while you quality control and enjoy your hobby?

So how do you go about turning it into a fulltime job? (I was actually going to ask this very question on here today, as I am bloody sick of what I do). So instead, I'll tack on here and hope to find "a moment of clarity"

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Originally Posted by Iain

Is it possible to subcontract your concreting business, just do the marketing and get someone else to do the heavy work while you quality control and enjoy your hobby?

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been trying to achieve that for 8 years, you cant find people who will work as hard and pay as much attention to detail as you do yourself

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Originally Posted by stuart_lees

So how do you go about turning it into a fulltime job? (I was actually going to ask this very question on here today, as I am bloody sick of what I do). So instead, I'll tack on here and hope to find "a moment of clarity"

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Hopefully i can get away with doing it part-time as i have my army pension as well. either way the secret has to be in the marketing, not the construction. anyone can build 100 jewellry boxes but they arent worth anything till you sell them

How do you make something good enough not to be completely embarassing, yet fast enough to have a reasonable $ hourly rate? The amount of time I take on each job currently means I'd have to charge $100s for a $10 item, or have a rate of pay around 50c/hr! (Generalising here of course!). Is there that much of a market?

The people who seem to make real money, are not the dovetailed box makers, but the dovetail jig manufacturers (eg gifkins). Even so, finding / inventing a product with sufficient marketing appeal is pretty unlikely.

I do have 1 - won't disclose the process, but basically take a square log, and keep cutting off the corners. Think I'll call it a wheel........

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Originally Posted by stuart_lees

So how do you go about turning it into a fulltime job? (I was actually going to ask this very question on here today, as I am bloody sick of what I do). So instead, I'll tack on here and hope to find "a moment of clarity"

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I know of a shop that is for sale where you can make and sell stuff, really crap stuff too, the crapier the better.

Al :p :D

Is it a 'warehouse', or do you get a pricing gun which has all numbers removed except for the 2? :D

changing life's directions

Must be a mid life thing, wanting to try something different out.
Looks like youve hit it early Stu. :p

We went through this 2 years ago when we bought the shop, it didnt turn out as expected, we now realize that the grass ISNT greener on the other side.

I would imagine it would be very hard to sell enough WW to make a living out of it.

Doug do you got to any physio at all, Ostio, Chiro?

Many years ago I thought my brickie days were done for from the pain I was in, I then got help from a Chiro and now an Ostio

My back still hurts from time to time but not as bad as it used to.

Al :)

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Originally Posted by stuart_lees

How do you make something good enough not to be completely embarassing, yet fast enough to have a reasonable $ hourly rate?

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Well firstly you have to be born in (insert less priveleged country of your choice here), and be living in somewhat impoverished circumstance.

There's a bloke who flogs a router overhead thingy at the odd woodshow, who makes those WW1 wooden kangaroos that hop down slopes.

He told me at Maleny he has a standing monthly order for several thousand. I'm not knocking him, he has it right. Either you make zillions of things for a few cents, or you make fewer high quality items with a larger margin.

Either flog stuff cheap for a pittance at the markets, or develop a following at the high end.

Now what's happened to those scrap wood chairs that someone was going to make and sell for $1,600.00 recently????

(Sorry about the back Doug, get well soon!)

Cheers,

P

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

changing life's directions

Must be a mid life thing, wanting to try something different out.
Looks like youve hit it early Stu. :p

Al :)

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Hit it years ago, only now I'm getting to an age where at least I have something legitimate to call it :eek: ;)

Sorry to hear about the back but I am glad you are taking it seriously and doing something about the warning.

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Originally Posted by doug the slug

either way the secret has to be in the marketing, not the construction. anyone can build 100 jewellry boxes but they arent worth anything till you sell them

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And there lies the secret to success. Some things I thought would go like hot cakes I've brought home and other stuff that was just taken on the off chance were snapped up. The right outlet in the right spot and your made.

Have a mate in balina on a RAAF pension , his wife still works but he makes good dollars, has a couple of local antique , small furniture outlets that take most of his stuff on comission, but he's found you have to be strict with yourself , set an hourly rate and log every hour you spend on a project and charge accordingly then if it doesn't sell don't make any more of them but make something diffrent untill you find what gives you the best profit margin and sells.
He suppliments this with the odd market days with market type goods.
It can be done but you need good ideas and lots of hours. :cool:


Rgds

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Doug do you got to any physio at all, Ostio, Chiro?

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I went to a chiropractor this morning for the first time in my life. I ambled in like i was Zed's brother and after a small amount of poking and prodding i walked out upright!! she was great, but a long way to go yet, 2 more appointments this week for starters.

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Originally Posted by doug the slug

I went to a chiropractor this morning for the first time in my life. I ambled in like i was Zed's brother and after a small amount of poking and prodding i walked out upright!! she was great, but a long way to go yet, 2 more appointments this week for starters.

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Good to hear Doug.

The thing is, you have to make yourself go, even when everything feels so good in the back.
That was the mistake I made last year, everything felt good so I didnt go, then one day Pop!!

It then starts all over again. Owww the pain, the pain...:eek:


PS
Owwh yes, sitting at the computer doesnt do it any good either.

Al :o

Hey Doug

All that bouncing huh:D ! Best of luck with the back.

I would suggest getting the book "the e-myth revisited" which talks about how business can succeed in a really informative way.

Its not a manual so much as a theory but it seems to make sense.

cheers

dazzler

PM me if you want to borrow my copy.

Sorry to hear about your back problem getting to this stage Doug!

The idea of turning your hobby into a commercial enterprise sounds like fun - but also quite a challenge to realise the revenues and margins such that you can make a living out of it.

Nontheless, I do wish you well, and hope it comes out as you wish.

Good luck mate!

Doug
It is important to find a good chiro (it seems that you might have) and then follow up on a regular basis - probably every 5 to 6 weeks for a tune up.
DAMHIK
Good luck with it

Speaking of making and selling stuff, has anyone tried eBay? Just curious.

Keith

Hope it works well Doug, rersearch, research research is what I've been led to believe, what do they want? can they get it easily now? who would you be competing against?.
Not trying to tell you what to do just some sound advice from a very sucessful self made Bloke I work for.

Keith, I did try BayE, various sized trinket to blanket type glory/heirloom boxes out of timbers with feature many never get to express themselves with. Transport was a killer, local markets did well for a bit but H norman was to handy with his stained pine stuff for the same money, and interest free stuff.
Kids school raffled a few off with huge success, but I reckon it's a bit different when you pay $2 for shot at a $500 brushbox with bright orange flame pattern heirloom.:cool:
Lost a lot of time of those boxes, but gee they were fun to make, even learnt some of Dereks' jointer manouvres doing them, and a lot more about fine finishing of tight grain hardwoods.

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Originally Posted by E. maculata

Hope it works well Doug, rersearch, research research is what I've been led to believe, what do they want? can they get it easily now? who would you be competing against?.
Not trying to tell you what to do just some sound advice from a very sucessful self made Bloke I work for..

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Well ive got a unique item that i think will be my flagship, so to speak. details classified for obvious reasons, too many copy-cats out there. theres a retail outlet swears they can shift 20 tomorrow. and they approached me!!!;) ;)

Chesand, my new best friend and chiropractor (anyone who can take that pain away so fast reaches "best friend" status) has already told me we will have a date once a monthhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ons/icon14.gif for as long as we both shall live

Hi Doug,
I can understand how you feel at the moment I have a similar back problem, but there is no help for me just drugs. Hope you do make a go of your own business and are a success.

Have you considered a "Breast reduction", just joking!.I couldn't help it!.:D

From my research so far I've gathered, its better to specialise in 1 or 2 pieces rather than a big range, this will allow you to tool up for faster mass production.
Its suprising how fast you can make a product if you have all the purpose made jigs for its production... make 20~100 at a time, seeming you have a arsenal of tools already a few thousand of consumables could be a nice profit.

The hard part is coming up with a product that will sell easy that appeals to the majority of people at a cheap to resonable price. I wouldnt bother going the high end stuff to much work Vs its value.
As you said you've allready been approached by people wanting orders and you already have business sense... NIKE just do it!

Best of luck with the back, get well soon.

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

I would imagine it would be very hard to sell enough WW to make a living out of it.

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fallacy

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Now what's happened to those scrap wood chairs that someone was going to make and sell for $1,600.00 recently????

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Need more scrap and an extra five hours in the day

Doug, please take this in the spirit I intend, which is to help.

Have you considered visiting a physio? My wife & I have been to a number of chiros over the years (admittedly with relatively minor back twinges & the like), but concluded that there seemed to be a real habit of overservicing, and ended up getting more constructive help in fewer visits at a good physio.

My gut feeling was that the chrios were a bit "alternative" and get a bit carried away with the joint "cracking", whereas the phisios stock in trade seem to be more conventional methods, exercise, stretching, heat, etc.

No expert of course, just my/our experiences, and as mentioned for more minor worries. Not saying it will make a difference, but could be worth considering.


Good luck for the future...............regards..............Sean

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Originally Posted by Lignum

fallacy

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that's good :) Still thinking about it.

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Originally Posted by stuart_lees

that's good :) Still thinking about it.

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One word for the budding furnituremaker who wants to make a quid. (Two words;) ) "Yellowpages online" Then be prepared to start to knock back work on a regular basis.

Doug

Like Chesand and your Chiro says, stick with it.

I seriously hurt my back in a sailing accident 20 yrs ago (tailing a winch, heavy sea, air out of sail, copped windward self tailer right in the lumbar region) 3 months of 'conventional' medicine (valium, bed rest) still in great pain and incapacitated) one visit to Chiro (who I had previously thought of as witch doctors) and back pretty much instantly fixed. Attend religiously every 6 weeks now and excepting one incident of picking up bag of cement whilst off balance (no not the pussy baby size) no further probs.

Good luck with the new venture, there are probably around 10,000 of us who would like to copy you.

Marketing and selling will be the key. Vertical markets are great. Specialise.

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Originally Posted by scooter

Doug, please take this in the spirit I intend, which is to help.

Have you considered visiting a physio? My wife & I have been to a number of chiros over the years (admittedly with relatively minor back twinges & the like), but concluded that there seemed to be a real habit of overservicing, and ended up getting more constructive help in fewer visits at a good physio.

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So I'm not the only one who feels that way? I had some back trouble a few years ago and went for about 4 or 5 visits to a chiro, who was very good at relieving my immediate pain and even better at arranging the next visit! I got fed up with it after a while and went to an osteopath who was recommended by a friend. One visit, no more buggered back and as for organising another visit "give it a month or so and give me a call if it's still bothering you". 'nuff said, I think.

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Originally Posted by scooter

My gut feeling was that the chrios were a bit "alternative" and get a bit carried away with the joint "cracking", whereas the phisios stock in trade seem to be more conventional methods, exercise, stretching, heat, etc.

No expert of course, just my/our experiences, and as mentioned for more minor worries. Not saying it will make a difference, but could be worth considering.


Good luck for the future...............regards..............Sean

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The osteo that I went to said that whilst there is a place for manipulation of joints to reseat badly-aligned bones, most of what the chiro does is simply unnecessary and in many cases, actually damaging. He has (had, he's now retired, I believe) a practise specialising in remediation of problems caused by excessive chiropractic. Apparently there's a lot of it about.

Doug, very sorry to hear about your back:(. What you need is a stool and a whip, then you won't have to worry about finding blokes to work hard - I believe Midge can put you onto a good supplier:p:D.

Seriously, though, make sure you don't go doing anything silly like trying to work through it. it's better to make a little less and still be able to do things that you enjoy and a bad back can stuff that up quicker than blinking.

Thanks to all who have given advice, be it medical, business or woodworking in this thread. I'm receptive to all the info received and the majority of it reassures me that im on the right track. The collective wisdom of this site is amazing.

From the medical perspective, its early days yet so im sticking with the chiropractor at least till she has had a fair go. I had a rather lengthy debate with myself as to whether to go to a chiro or a physio before i chose the chiro. yes she is good at making the next appointment or two but she is also good at releiving the pain.

as for the business/woodwork side of it, i will start out following up the contacts i already have and cultivate a few more. I will keep the products unique to only one outlet each to avoid commpetition between outlets. I might even do the local markets if time permits after that. the triton gear and woodrat are both very capable of being set up for mass production and the jointer and thicknesser will keep cost of stock down, by dressing it myself.

Anyway its great to know i have so much support from everyone, i gotta get up now and walk around before my back seizes up.

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Originally Posted by doug the slug

From the medical perspective, its early days yet so im sticking with the chiropractor at least till she has had a fair go. I had a rather lengthy debate with myself as to whether to go to a chiro or a physio before i chose the chiro. yes she is good at making the next appointment or two but she is also good at releiving the pain.

.

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They were my thoughts exactly about Chiros, until I went to an Osteo, I wouldnt touch a chiro now even with your back, never mind mine. :p

And this is after 7 years of chiro.

Osteo's are much better at back problems I should know with all the problems Ive had.
The biggest thing is dont forget to go, even when everything is feeling fine.

Al :)

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Originally Posted by doug the slug

Well ive got a unique item that i think will be my flagship, so to speak. details classified for obvious reasons, too many copy-cats out there. theres a retail outlet swears they can shift 20 tomorrow. and they approached me!!!;) ;)

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Doesn't come any better than that for opportunity knockin' Doug, go for yer life IMHO:cool: .

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Originally Posted by E. maculata

Doesn't come any better than that for opportunity knockin' Doug, go for yer life IMHO:cool: .

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Thanks Bruce, weare going into full production as soon as my back is well enough to get the workshop into shape. meanwhile (funny how this stuff happens just when you need it) ive had an expression of interest for commercial quantities of one of my items from a business in an interstate capital city.

meanwhile my chiropractor is helping a lot, but i still cant do too much yet or i will negate all her goodwork, so justmaking contacts andplans at the moment and hopefully will beworkingon the workshop next week

go slug 'em Doug, er when the backs better...hope all goes well with your hopes and dreams with new ventures.:cool:

Man's gotta look afta his back afta all it's gonna hafta keep him upright and at it it least 3 score & 10.

Take care and do it all on a gradual basis....lifes got a lot in store for you still, with whats ahead with time and health.

All the best foremost with the back and secondly with the new enterprise.

Cheers:)

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Originally Posted by doug the slug

As a few of the forum members who i exchange PM's and e-mails with will know I have been laid up for the last 8 days with a bad back. I've had back problems before but never anything i couldnt fix in a couple of days with the right stretching etc. This time its different, nothing I can do has made any impact on it at all so I went to a chiropractor this morning.

She says that I will recover full strength and movement and the pain will go away eventually, but she also said that if I keep doing the things I'm doing its just going to get worse over time. I guess that my spine has had a rough life, 20 years in the army followed by 8 years running my concrete garden edging business with all its heavy lifting and bending. I always said i didnt want to be still doing concrete edging when i was 50, but i'm only 46.

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Geez Doug, I read that heading and thought you were in for a gender bender - whew!

Backs are a serious issue and a common ex-military guy problem. Land the wrong way with a heavy pack and you can snap your spine, most are lucky and just compress a disc.

Have you looked at warm-up routines prior to working for the day? I don't mean 200lb guy doing cinderella routines, but stretching and general muscle loosening. There are a growing number of businesses getting advice, especially where heavy lifting is involved with older guys. In other industries with younger guys (removalists) they hope they move on before the problems become apparent.

Now I've done it, I've got a mental image of you in a tutu :eek::eek::eek: aarrggghhhh (runs away).