Now lisitening to Lawsy this morning they are wafffleing on about the Kokoda Trail is it a trail or is it a track ... My gran's brothers served over there and it was always a Trail wats your idea ???? cheers jules
its the Trail
its a Track
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Now lisitening to Lawsy this morning they are wafffleing on about the Kokoda Trail is it a trail or is it a track ... My gran's brothers served over there and it was always a Trail wats your idea ???? cheers jules
its the Trail
its a Track
I've heard it refered to as both a track and a trail. I always thought trail was the correct term though.
This link to the Australian War Memorial should help
http://www.awm.gov.au/Encyclopedia/kokoda/index.htm
I would say it doesn't really matter so long as people don't refer to it as the Kokoda Boardwalk... ;)
(But I reckon it is trail).
Cam
What does the street errr trail sign say? :rolleyes:
I have always heard it referred to as Trail, cant recall hearing Track before
i've only ever heard of the kokoda trail ( only found out about it the other day and read thru a few sites) but i dont think it really matters
Last and only time I've been there all the signs say Kokoda Trail.
If anyone wants a photo let me know and I'll post one or two.
TRACK !!!!!!!
Because I'm Australian.
soth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood Borer
Yeah, lets see some piccies please:)
I understand your thinking and I agree that Trail is not typically Australian. Birdsville Track, Strezlecki Track ....... certainly not trails.Quote:
Originally Posted by masoth
The Kokoda I have always heard referred to as a Trail by returned soldiers, the locals and the signs say Trail also.
Doug - when I sort out a memory stick for my laptop I shall gladly post them. I didn't walk the track, I only went to the start of it.
Track is Oz, Trail is Yank, but...
we were both involved in that war so there is a fair bit of 'cross-over' of terms used.
The fence sitters just call it Kokoda now.
I always thought it was trail, but maybe my thoughts have been batstardised by the Yanks, and it is track after all.
Track does sound more Oz than trail.
Al :confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozwinner
I hate to break the news to some people but the kokoda trail is not on australian soil. Even if Papua new guinea was once an australian protectorate, it has never been a part of Australia and never should be.
As a graduate of the Australian Defence Force School Of Languages in both Indonesian and Melanesian Pidgin, and having having devoted many years of my life to providing our government with the best information possible on these areas, I can tell you this.
The population of the region involved have referred to it as the Kokoda trail since their introduction to the english language and the development of the melanesian Pidgin language. what right do we have to rename it, or even claim a right to do so because we are australian? Its not ours to rename.
I have spoken to many ww2 veterans who fought on the Kokoda Trail, including a great uncle and not once have i heard a veteran refer it as anything other than the Kokoda TRAIL.
Like I said Doug.Quote:
Originally Posted by ozwinner
Al :)
Has always been trail even though it may sound yanky
I think that some Australian's alledgedly claim that right because it was Australian soldiers that fought and died on that track protecting not only this country but also New Guinea from, at that time, the threat of invasion by Japan.Quote:
or even claim a right to do so because we are australian?
This is not my view but just something to think about.
It's Trail. T. R. A. I. L.
Gawd, what's Oz coming too? Changing names 'cos we think something else "sounds better." It gained its' renown in a historic event... and if those who were there called it a trail who're we to think about changing it?
Next thing ya know there'll be a poll to see if it should be the Kokoda Trerson, 'cos trail rhymes with male and we can't have that!
Rainbow sheep, my ####... :mad:
That would be like trying to rename GallipoliQuote:
Originally Posted by Wood Butcher
Trail. It's the Kokoda Trail, for the reasons Doug said and a bunch more. Want to rename the Mississippi River to the Mississippi Creek? Call the Great Lakes the Big Billabongs? It isn't ours to rename FFS.
This is the first I've heard it called a track and it really doesn't surprise me that the confusion has arisen from the media.
Its misinformation put out by the media to sound trendy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!
Its the confuse the confusable policy.
Al :mad:
It has probably been bugga'd up by the Oz vertnac.
Where I grew up, every thing on the ground was a track, from dog tracks to the main roads. (we didn't call them highways)
A track was something you followed, a trail was something that followed you... IE: dust trail, jet trail, smoke trail.
0z or yank term not an issue, my father was there and he called it a trail, and a few other names not to be mentioned in this forum.
HJ0 Cheers
I have voted "it doesn't matter". Why....
I don't think that it matter at all whether you call a track or trail. Realistically the two terms are grammatically interchangeable, so it comes down to personal preference.
What does matter is that we remember what happened there and what it means to us today. The fact that thanks to those men that fought and died there, this nation is what is is today. They held back the Japanese from taking over Papua New Guinea and possibly invading Australia.
Call it what you want. I know it not for its name but for what happened there!!!!
Did they? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Wood Butcher
yeah they did actually, for about 40 years, now they own most of it:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers
Gillie?.... https://www.ubeaut.biz/phone.gifHello, is that you Adam?
Mate, can you get that one too please?
Ta. :D
Cliff there is no answer to that questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers
As the Japs were defeated on the trail the question is pure supposition
The Australian Government at the time believed that had the Japs captured Port Moresby then an invasion of Australia was more then possible, and they at the time had better knowledge than people who have made statements in later years who use hindsight as to the ability of the japs to invade Australia
The troops on the trail believed that they were the only fighting force that could stop an invasion , and fought with that in mind, Up until then the Japs had never been beaten in jungle conflict.
Did they stop an Invasion ? you can argue any which way , but we wern't invaded and the Australian troops that fought and died on the trail believed that they were saving Australia from Invasion
I personally think as a student of history that the defeat on the trail sapped the strength of the invading force to such an extent that the Japs had to re-think their plans , The battle of the coral sea must also be considered but had the Japs arrived at Port morseby with their army intact, ie had they not met the resistance on the Kokoda trail that they did then the war in the south Pacific may well have taken a diffrent path.
Some thoughtful comments, but many Australians change with the times. How many of you use the words 'guy' and 'gay' in place of 'men' or 'homosexual' - I'm sure most over 50's didn't use the words for present meaning when at school.
Anyone referring to me as 'guy' is told that I'm not a rope, and most have no idea about what I'm talking - they simply don't know.
Now back to Kakoda; it doesn't matter what it is called by others. It was called 'track' by all the Australians I have known who had any connection from those days.
As I voted (for me) it is 'Track because I'm Australian'.
A recent film suggested Australian soldiers played an insignificant minor supply role for the American forces.
Sorry. I'll go back to bed, it's 3.30am!!!!
Below is the quote from the Australian War Memorial
"Encyclopedia
Kokoda Trail
Kokoda was arguably Australia's most significant campaign of the Second World War. More Australians died in the seven months of fighting in Papua, and the Japanese came closer to Australia than in any other campaign.
"Kokoda Trail" or "Kokoda Track" ?
There has been a considerable debate about whether the difficult path that crossed the Owen Stanley Range should be called the "Kokoda Trail" or the "Kokoda Track". Both "Trail" and "Track" have been in common use since the war. "Trail" is probably of American origin but has been used in many Australian history books and was adopted by the Australian Army as an official "Battle Honour". "Track" is from the language of the Australian bush. It is commonly used by veterans, and is used in the volumes of Australia's official history. Both terms are correct, but "Trail" appears to be used more widely."
Struth! Another one? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashore
It was a JOKE. That is why it had a stupid grin behind it. :D
I meant what Doug said... but then, you probably need to visit Cairns to really understand. :rolleyes:
Confusion confusion :eek: :confused: :eek: :confused:
All these photos were taken at the start of the Kokoda last year.
Just my two bob's worth, I have several thought's on this and they are:
1. It does matter.
2. I have only heard it refered to as trail.
3. When they started "Walking the trail", it was call "The Kokoda Trek" (as in adventure).
I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but it is just the names I have heard used.
For those who didn't notice, the second photo refers to it as a track.
Well we can't argue with that, and I stand corrected, but it is important, as I think it is not only Australian history, it is the memory of those who made the ultimate sacrifice and should be remembered as so. Just my thought's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood Borer
You trail types are wrong and when I can find the site, I'll post the link.
When the Australians named the TRACK, it was called the Kokoda TRACK. Then the yanks came and didn't like the name and changed it to trail. The signs are in the process of being changed to reflect it's true name.
Dan
From this site:Quote:
In mid-July General Douglas MacArthur, Allied Supreme Commander of South West Pacific Area, ordered that a force of Australian infantry and American engineers should move across the Koloda track to Buna to construct an airfield at Dobodura. (From 1942, under American influence, the track became known as the Kokoda Trail). By mid-1942, however, there was great pressure on troop numbers. Experienced soldiers of the AIF were fighting elsewhere, mainly in the Middle East and North Africa.
http://www.battleforaustralia.org.au/kokoda1.html
Dan
Thank's Dan, a very good read!...:)
Quote:
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">In mid-July General Douglas MacArthur, Allied Supreme Commander of South West Pacific Area, ordered that a force of Australian infantry and American engineers should move across the Koloda track to Buna to construct an airfield at Dobodura. (From 1942, under American influence, the track became known as the Kokoda Trail). By mid-1942, however, there was great pressure on troop numbers. Experienced soldiers of the AIF were fighting elsewhere, mainly in the Middle East and North Africa.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
That actually says Koloda track :)
But I have heard of it referred to as the Kokoda Track all my life, so its not a recent media thing. Also sounds very American if thats true that they came and changed it.