Weatherboard cladding - tips and tricks?

Greetings forum.

I'm hoping to get started on re-cladding an entire Californian Bungalow house with timber weatherboards, hoping to get started over Easter.

Having not had a crack at anything like this before, I'm wondering if you guys could lend me your collective knowledge about anything that will save me learning the hard way.

I am looking to use pre-primed bullnose profile pine boards, which I can get for about $2.40/m

None of the house has foil or insulation, so I will be doing that as I go too.

A few questions come to mind in my preparation:

1. Material estimation.
How much overlap should you provide each board? I'm not sure what the standard board width is, I'm guessing it is about 150-180mm, which would probably make the overlap about 30-40mm?

2. What foil to use and how to install it.
I have been told by a few people that it is better to staple the foil in between the studs to leave a space between the foil and the weatherboards. Failure to do so will expedite weatherboard decay from the inside to to condensation (sweat). Can this be overcome by using the breathable foil like Bradford EnviroSeal Wall Breather Foil, installed as long sheets directly over the outside of the stud frame?

3. Fixing.
I have a Senco FinishPro 15 angled bradder, which takes upto 65mm 18 gauge nails. Would this be suitable - if so what would the best type of nails be to use?

I assume that I would use a string line to get the bottom board level and then work up from there? What is the easiest way to get consistent spacing? Make a lap gauge?

The longest wall is about 9m, so I am going to have join lengths to cover it. What is the best method of staggering the joins, ideally minimising waste?

4. Finishing.
What is the best product the seal the gaps at the end of where the boards butt up against the stop and board joins?

I think that is all I have for now, but I'm sure I'll think of some more as I get going. Feel free to chip in any other perils of wisdom that you think might help :)

Thanks in advance
Ben

this lot will likely answer most of your questions:

http://www.outdoorstructures.com.au/pdf/timcladding.pdf
http://www.simon-pl.com.au/html/timber_cladding.html
http://oak.arch.utas.edu.au/tbia/art....asp?area_id=4
http://www.outdoorstructures.com.au/cladding.php
http://www.australianhardwood.net/ap...ladding(5).htm

Thanks Wayne - that lot ought to keep me occupied for a while!
Much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Ben (TM)

The longest wall is about 9m, so I am going to have join lengths to cover it. What is the best method of staggering the joins, ideally minimising waste?

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Is no real best way, you just need to keep track of offcuts as you go and where best to use them to minimise waste. You can measure up beforehand, overall wall lenghts, lenghts between windows ect and try and nut out a plan of attack.

OK - I have 500m of board arriving Thursday, ready to get stuck into it over the 4 days of Easter.

The Pope's resources have been great, but I have 3 questions:

1. What type of sarking (foil) is the best to use under weatherboards? I imagine that the perforated 'breathable' stuff is the go?

2. What do you attach it (foil) to the frame with? I was thinking staples, but have been told that there is some kind of special clips for this job. If so, I assume that they have a small enough profile to not interfere with the attachment of the boards.

3. In one of the guides it says:

"When using gun nails, particular care must be taken to ensure that the head type, shank size and length, and protective coating, is suitable for the cladding being fastened."

The frame is softwood (Oregon or similar). The guide recommends 65mm x 2.9mm (annular threaded) galvanised nails for gun application.

I assume that these have a 'screw' type shank? Is there any specific type of head that I need? Will I be able to get these at Bunnies?

Roll on the long weekend..... I will post some progress pics early next week.

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Ben, sarking has to be the breathable stuff for verticle surfaces, buy the square plates for pinning them - staples 'may' work - wind is your enemy so do first thing in the morning.

nailer - gee, it'd be nice to be able to get a single strip of nails to try first to see if you can consistantly drive to a few mm proud and then drive home by hand. the gal nails i think you will find are not dipped but plate and if you are anywhere within cooee of the coast, they will rust in time.

As an obvious, 2 people is mandatory, and a drop saw that will do th whole width.

Thanks for the tip. Have found suitable sarking and the plates for fixing them.

Have saw, string lines and levels and another set of hands. Just need to get the nails sorted now by the looks. That is a lot of nails to belt in by hand, especially when I have a near new gun sitting in the shed just itching for some work :). The depth adjustment on the Senco's is pretty good - so I should be able to get them proud OK. Thanks for the tip about the gun nails only being plated. I'll look out for it.

Ben, annular shank means that the nail shank has a series of ridges formed around it, to resist working their way out over time. Similar effect to screw shank nails that you mentioned, which have a helical screw type thread down the shank.

One is supposed to be better for softwood & one for hardwood, but I forget which - annular for hardwood is my guess, but a guess only.

Foil fasteners are just little "nail plate" looking things, they would hold the foil on better during construction than staples, which may pull through.


Cheers.................Sean

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Originally Posted by scooter

Ben, annular shank means that the nail shank has a series of ridges formed around it, to resist working their way out over time. Similar effect to screw shank nails that you mentioned, which have a helical screw type thread down the shank.

One is supposed to be better for softwood & one for hardwood, but I forget which - annular for hardwood is my guess, but a guess only.

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Cheers Sean - got the picture now (perhaps I should have looked up annular in the dictionary ;) ) However, I think it is the other way around - annular for softwood as hardwaood has better nail holding ability because of its increased density.

Does anyone know if you can get hot dipped annualar gun nails? I called Otter and they only have the plain ones (non-annular)

Bugger - my gun only fires 15 gauge DA brads, which are probably a bit fine for this work, so looks like they're all going to have to go in by hand :(

Is Bunnies as good as anywhere to get 65mm x 2.8mm (annular threaded) galvanised hand nails?

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Originally Posted by Ben (TM)

Is Bunnies as good as anywhere to get 65mm x 2.8mm (annular threaded) galvanised hand nails?

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Actually 50mm * 2.8mm is good enough for nailing weatherboards, been using that lenght for decades on my weatherboards untill I got a good nailgun. :D

Bunnings is okay but then buy a number of 500g packs rather than a 1k or 2k box. Four 500g packs of nails is about $ 15.00 cheaper than a 2k box at Bunnings.


Peter.

heh Ben, depending on the manufacturer species, either flat head nails or bullet heads, but bullet heads look lots nicer and look like a tradesman (as opposed to a home builder) built it ;)

Get the smallest shank size specified, so its easiest to drive. If your hammer is 20 oz, consider trying out a 23 ounce for extra weight, maybe even a 27 ounce if the framing is well seasoned (carpenter friends can be useful here for a weekend job).

Just as a side thought, i assume the place has insulation - if it doesnt, there will never come a better opportunity to fix insulation - especially for Melbourne .
As sturdee says, go the shortest practical nail length for the boards - oh yeh, and take it easy the first day - its real easy to stuff a shoulder with 8 hours of nailing! then it'll be next weekend and then the weekend after (add your help might off in the meantime!)

Ben,
save time, effort and your right shoulder and wrist and hire a coil nailer for the weekend. You can get full hot dip gal nails in coils.

Mick

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

Actually 50mm * 2.8mm is good enough for nailing weatherboards

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Great - I just picked up a couple of kg of these at the timber yard I got the boards from this morning. I got the bullet head ones. I was a bit worried that the 50mm might not be long enough, but he bloke at the yard reckoned that's all the builders ever use. $16.

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Originally Posted by pharmaboy2

Just as a side thought, i assume the place has insulation - if it doesnt, there will never come a better opportunity to fix insulation - especially for Melbourne .

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Dead right. Lukcy(?) for me, this house is a complete gutting exercise (the inside is already back to stud frame), so I can put my batts in from the inside before the gyprock goes up.

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Originally Posted by pharmaboy2

As sturdee says, go the shortest practical nail length for the boards - oh yeh, and take it easy the first day - its real easy to stuff a shoulder with 8 hours of nailing! then it'll be next weekend and then the weekend after (add your help might off in the meantime!)

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Good advice. I'm pretty sure that I will spend most of Saturday wandering around scratching my head and measuring everything half a dozen times before I cut anything. The help is not allowed to off. Besides, there is no beer until the end of the day, so it's worth hanging around.

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

save time, effort and your right shoulder and wrist and hire a coil nailer for the weekend. You can get full hot dip gal nails in coils.

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That is a damned fine idea. I think I will start doing it by hand until I get the hang of it, then once I get a bit of proficiency, I'll be down to the hire shop.

Thanks to eveyone for your helpful suggestions. Believe it or not, I'm actually looking forward to the weekend so I can get started!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben (TM)

Good advice. I'm pretty sure that I will spend most of Saturday wandering around scratching my head and measuring everything half a dozen times before I cut anything.

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Not much wandering or head scratching if you do it the way I do it when fixing up my weatherboard house.

Make sure that you nail the bottom board level all round. That is the hard part, especially if you have to do more than one side and a water level comes in very handy.:D

Then make two measuring sticks marked at 150mm spaces. Clamp the measuring sticks against the studs on either end and hold the top of the new board against the marks and nail into the studs. Repeat until wall is done. No measuring or levels required although a regular check is wise.

The 150 mm is because the normal boards are 165mm and a 15mm overlap is normally used.

Good luck with it, you're lucky you've got a helper, last time I had to do it was by myself and 6 metres up a ladder.:mad:

Peter.

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

Make sure that you nail the bottom board level all round. That is the hard part, especially if you have to do more than one side and a water level comes in very handy.

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Yeah - I reckon once you had the bottom board set, the rest should be pretty straight forward. I was planning on just using a string line with one of those little spirit levels (don't know what they are called) on it. Should be OK I think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

Make two measuring sticks marked at 150mm spaces. Clamp the measuring sticks against the studs on either end and hold the top of the new board against the marks and nail into the studs. Repeat until wall is done. No measuring or levels required although a regular check is wise.

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That's a great idea. I had thought about making some kind of lap gauge, but this way sounds much easier. Thanks for the tip.

Don't measure from the previous board. An accumulation of differences can occur and you may end up with a wall that doesn't look straight.

Always work from the bottom board.

A nailgun is dubious advantage with weatherboards as both ends of eack board needs to be cut for its particular location between the end studs.
So you are continually changing between nailing and sawing.

I used to mitre the end joins of the weatherboards which adds some time to the job.
Two main advantages are
!. Slight errors in the endcuts of the boards aren't noticeable.
2. Errors in the endcuts dont leave open gaps directly in front of a stud. So the job is much more weatherproof.

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Originally Posted by echnidna

Don't measure from the previous board. An accumulation of differences can occur and you may end up with a wall that doesn't look straight. Always work from the bottom board.

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Good call

Quote:

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Originally Posted by echnidna

A nailgun is dubious advantage with weatherboards as both ends of eack board needs to be cut for its particular location between the end studs. So you are continually changing between nailing and sawing.

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Makes sense - especially the way I work! We'll see how we go.

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Originally Posted by echnidna

I used to mitre the end joins of the weatherboards which adds some time to the job.

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This is a new train of thought, which makes some sense. I have a nice 12" sliding compound saw, so should be reasonably easy to achieve. All of what I have read suggests just doing a straight butt joint, but cut the second piece slightly long and snap it into place so you get a good tight fit.

Do you use any sealer at the joint, or is just painting the newly cut ends with primer enough?

Ben,
I wouldn't trust one of those little string line levels, use a dumpy or a water level. If you have a helper then once you have your bottom board in all around it will go pretty quickly. Make up your story rod(s) or mark out the studs, measuring up from your bottom board.
Helper measures first board, you measure stud spacing and sing out the measurement he needs to cut to: ie square on left, bevel on right, 4855 to long point.
While he cuts you drive a nail (by hand) part way into a bottom board, 15mm (or whatever the lap is) down from the top. This will support one end of the board while you nail the other.
Support board on nail, align board and drive a couple of nails (you may need to sight along board to see if it's straight (level), you may need to tweak it up and/or down as you go along. Once you've got a couple of nails in measure the next board so your offsider can cut it.
Nail off the board completely, remove the support nail and reuse it as a support for the next board.
Repeat as required:p
If you need to use scaffolding, then complete everything so you don't need to come back (ie: punch any nails that need punching, stop holes, gap fill around windows etc etc)

I'd still use the nail gun, especially if you haven't hand driven a lot of nails. For an experienced chippie a gun won't make a lot of difference, speed wise on this job, but for a weeklend warrior it will. Make up a big "S" hook out of stiff wire or 6mm rod. Hook it on the noggins (or the top plate when you get that high) and hook the gun on it. Wear a nail bag and carry a tape, pencil,square, nails, nail punch, hammer etc etc in it. Try to avoid too much wandering back and forth, if you get a good rythm goping you'll fly through it.

Mick

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Ben,
I wouldn't trust one of those little string line levels, use a dumpy or a water level.

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I just keep on learning. I didn't even know what a water level was :confused: (Maybe he shouldn't be tackling this job I hear you all cry!)
But after taking a look at: http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...ges/hvt045.asp

it's clear as day and looks like a much better idea.

Thanks for the tips on 'workflow' too - sounds like a well oiled machine (until one of us messes up!)

Its actually an easy and fast job once you get your rythm together

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben (TM)

(Maybe he shouldn't be tackling this job I hear you all cry!)

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Ofcourse not. You'l never learn until you tackle it. Just remember we expect a report on how you went and some photos of the finished master cladding.

Peter.

Another couple of little tips I found when putting on my weatherboards.
1. When putting the nail in at the end of each board, pre drill the hole to stop splitting.
2. When putting in the nails along the boards, first turn the nail back to front and give it just one tap on the pionted end, driving the head into the board. This leaves a little indent in the board, then turn the nail around and drive the pointed end into the board through the indentation. This also helps with stopping the boards from splitting.

You will be suprised after the first hundred odd nails how quickly you can hammer in a nail.

Grinner

Also when you're working out your board overlap, take into consideration the width of the last board under the eave. Best result is a full board, worst is a very narrow piece which nearly always tapers and stands out like dog balls.

You have a fair bit of leeway in the overlap you use so you should be able to get a full or almost full board under the eave.