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Hi all, I had no idea where to post this one, but hopefully this will do.
I was thinking of building an enclosure using 2020 extrusion and 2mm (possibly 1.5) polycarbonate.
Was thinking of using 2 sheets of PC with a spacer, possibly insulating foam tape, to sit in the slot of the 2020
to act as double glazing.
Does anyone have an idea whether this might be effective?
The enclosure will be 520w x 600d x 600h so would probably do a centre brace for the top.
Any advice is appreciated
Craig
The first question to ask is, why an enclosure?
The usual reasons are;
1) Noise, especially if the printer is noisy and you don't wish to disturb anyone while printing.
2) You want to reduce the effects of sudden cooling drafts drafts on prints. This can lead to differential cooling of prints and may cause problems
3) You wish to print with a material that requires an elevated atmosphere.
4) You wish to print with something smelly and want to vent the enclosure outside the room.
Or maybe some a combo of the above.
If its 1), then some noise reduction can be obtained even using cardboard. My son used 3mm MDF for his printer and I was surprised how much this reduced the noise levels.
Same for 2), any thin material can reduce drafts.
With 3) you have to be very careful at being too insulating as most printers simply may not cope, eg some electronics and stepper motors cannot usually handle >50ºC for extended periods.
Anyway have a look how I did mine.
Adventures in 3D printing bibs and bobs for a home workshop
I wanted 1) and 2) and whatever I could get from it in terms of 3) and possibly 4) but the latter 2 were not my main aims.
Mine is 640 x 640 x 900mm and uses 1mm PC and is only singly glazed ie no insulation.
It's effective enough at noise reduction (I print all night and day with it) and easily excludes drafts.
I have a fan on the enclosure but have not completed the extraction ducting.
So far I have had no need to use elevated temperatures but it definitely gets hotter inside than outside.
The connectors a Qubelock style printed by the printer. and I used 20mm extrusion.
The PC is held on my M3 screws with holes drilled and tapped into the extrusion.
Some small triangle shaped pieces of PC are used in teh corners as bracing.
The PC is mostly flat up against the extrusion but in some places there are slight buckles and gas but you have to look hard to see them.
The best thing I did was made the enclosure in two halves which makes it much easier to cover and access the printer.
I can leave the back half of the enclosure in place and get full access.
It requires using a lot more extrusion but its well worth it.
The front door is full height/width but it has a smaller ready access hatchway which can be handy.
All hinges were printed by the printer.
Makes sure you allow for the full width range of any moving parts.
Attachment 513831
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Bob.
The main reasons for wanting an enclosure are 3 and 4 with some of 1.
I've already replaced the MB fan and PS fan so the noise isn't so much of a problem.
I'm initially wanting to print in ABS so the printer itself will be the main heat source, from
what I've read a single wall enclosure would maybe reach mid 30's and was hoping to
reach maybe 50's. The steppers are rated higher so shouldn't be a problem.
The printer is located in the dining / lounge / kitchen so need to confine the gases which are apparently toxic
and I've already printed a Hepa / Charcoal filter combo
So do you think the double wall PC would be beneficial with temperatures?
I do hope to print PC/CF in the future
That's what Ive heard as well but it depends on what size/watts the bed is etc and the ambient temp.Quote:
Originally Posted by CgT
We don't heat our house in winter so the starting temp is currently 15ºC which makes it a bit harder.
I need to do some testing.
How about the electronics rating?Quote:
The steppers are rated higher so shouldn't be a problem.
Remember fans don't actually cool anything they just circulate air and rely on a temperature differential.
Electronics typically works fine up to 30ºC ambient air temps but after most systems struggle.
If there's 50ºC in the cabinet the MB fan may simply not be able to move enough air to keep the MB cool.
I don't have a lot of faith in such a small filters and you will need a really airtight box and doors to keep the gasses from escaping.Quote:
The printer is located in the dining / lounge / kitchen so need to confine the gases which are apparently toxic
and I've already printed a Hepa / Charcoal filter combo
You'll need grommet/glands around the cables and well sealed doors and a sealed bottom.
From the guys I know that regularly print ABS they say it's much better to vent.
Double wall should get you to 50ºC but I've heard of people using PP core flute as walls and getting to 50.Quote:
So do you think the double wall PC would be beneficial with temperatures?
I do hope to print PC/CF in the future
What do you plan using the ABS for?
A number of guys that I know that started out wanting to print ABS quickly found out what a PITA it is and found other materials could do the job of the.
Have you checked your heater bed temps - some printers cannot reached their claimed max temps.
Mine was supposed to reach 110 but it only ever got to 100. I've replaced the heater on mine with PID controlled 750W mains powered things that will go to 150 if needed. I haven't used it above 50 yet.
Ambient temps aren't much better here, currently 19 C inside, low 20s during the day.
Printing with PLA+ at the moment which needs 70 C to maintain bed adhesion, My IR
thermometer confirms temps are close but haven't tested above that. Will probably upgrade the
bed heater at some point.
The door is where I'm struggling to find an effective solution. Definitely some experimenting required.
Extending the electrics outside the enclosure will be relatively straight forward so no problem there.
Only going on anecdotal statements but I think if the filter is running for 10 min or so after the print
finishes the fumes should be at minimal levels. Venting is good for fumes but poor for heating.
The first thing I need to print with ABS is a fan shroud for the printer, as I want to fit an aftermarket
all metal hotend. But I'm really unimpressed with the strength of PLA. Great for anything without a
function but otherwise disappointing.
ABS isn't much better apparently, just higher heat resistance,which is why I'd like to try nylons,
polycarbonates, etc. That of course needs 100 C chamber temps
so at that stage it's a whole new printer, probably some flavour of Voron.
Corflute would probably be a more economical starting point to get the temps I want and upgrade
to PC at a later date.
I made the Ikea Lack table enclosure for my printer. I print ABS with no problem.
Attention Required! | Cloudflare Not sure if that link will continue to work, but here is one from the Prusa site: How to build a simple, cheap enclosure for your 3D printer - Original Prusa 3D Printers
I'll get a pic of it tonight
Thanks Pearo, I like the look of the lack, but it's a bit limiting as far as size.
What sort of temps do you get?
This morning the inside of the house got down to 13 which is the lowest we've ever seen it. See below for more info on heating.Quote:
Originally Posted by CgT
What sort of bed cover is it, Do you use any glue stick on the bed?Quote:
Printing with PLA+ at the moment which needs 70 C to maintain bed adhesion, My IR
thermometer confirms temps are close but haven't tested above that. Will probably upgrade the
bed heater at some point.
My stock heater bed temp agreed with my IR thermometer and a separate Thermocouple up to about 90º but after that the temps did not match and even though the printer display allows for it to be set it for 110ºC it only reached 100ºC. Last night I was looking at my printers specs and see the stock firmware only allows for >100 so it all now makes sense.
I would make a door with a frame that clamps down firmly onto a door frame with some sort of soft gasket between. We made a number of these at work for walk in freezer labs. We got the gasket material from Clarke Rubber.Quote:
The door is where I'm struggling to find an effective solution. Definitely some experimenting required.
Good point. Just remember venting only has to create a very slightly negative pressure to keep the gas inside - its not like there's a need for a roaring gale through the enclosure.Quote:
Only going on anecdotal statements but I think if the filter is running for 10 min or so after the print
finishes the fumes should be at minimal levels. Venting is good for fumes but poor for heating.
One whiff of the ABS smell by the family can get you into hot water. One of mates that tried to print ABS without filters or ventilation was immediately banished to the shed :) even though he agreed never to print it again.
Not sure what you mean by shroud?Quote:
The first thing I need to print with ABS is a fan shroud for the printer, as I want to fit an aftermarket
all metal hotend.
I have a Micro Swiss hot end on mine but I would need to upgrade the heater and software to get things hotter. Otherwise I haven'y noticed any significant difference compared to the stock hot end.
What sort of application do you have in mind?Quote:
But I'm really unimpressed with the strength of PLA. Great for anything without a
function but otherwise disappointing.
I have found a heap of uses for stock PLA and the strength has been fine for what I need.
I mainly make make Electronics Project boxes with my printer but have printed heaps of stuff for around the house and shed.
I also make a lot of coffee grinder/machine accessories.
The clamps, hinges and Qubelock corners of my enclosure are all straight PLA.
Yes one couple did break while constructing, but that was just me being ham fisted and none have broken since.
I was going to use ABS but have found the PLA is good enough.
Do you have a dehumidifier to reduce the water content of the filament material? Keeping the filaments dry is significant in terms of final PLA product strength and I found a plastic bag with desiccant in it isn't as good as a 2 hour burst in a dehumifier.
Also have you tried PETG? prints at 220-250ºC and uses a bed T of 70-80ºC. My printer mates who were printing with ABS have all switched to PETG. I have a roll but haven't tried it.
Last year the 1.2 x 2.4 m x 1mm sheet of PC I bought from Plastics Warehouse cost $55. The cost of plastic is closely tied to the price of oil so I suspect a 1.5mm sheet will duct 1.5 x $55. Although (like petrol) things may be dearer now. The Al extrusions I bought in 6m lengths direct from Capral I ended up needing 13.60m of extrusion which means 3 lengths but it worked out way cheaper than buying Qubelock from places like bunnings or inline.Quote:
ABS isn't much better apparently, just higher heat resistance,which is why I'd like to try nylons,
polycarbonates, etc. That of course needs 100 C chamber temps
so at that stage it's a whole new printer, probably some flavour of Voron.
Corflute would probably be a more economical starting point to get the temps I want and upgrade
to PC at a later date.
BTW, in case you don't know there is a 3D Printing forum in the Metal Work Forums. Its not very active but there have been some useful posts in there.
3D Printers and Printing
RE: heating enclosure.
I only thought of it this morning but I did not completely disconnect my stock bed heater when I replaced it (it's the gold coloured thing leaning up against the inside of the enclosure. I did this in case I had problems with the new printer and could then easily replace the beds. I just run the stock heater at "Zero degrees while printing"
The new heater is separately PID controlled by the black (PLA) box on the LHS of the picture. Being 750W it heats up really fast (<1min) but doesn't have any auto-off when print is complete feature which I will attend to someday.
The stock heater temp can be set using the printer software so this means I can run both heaters at the same time, with the heat from the stock printer just going into the enclosure. Being vertically oriented will assist with convection and heat transfer. Covering it with something back would assist with radiate heat transfer.
I'll do some tests to see what the enclosure it can get do. I'm not holding my breath but it could provide some indication of what heater power is needed.
Attachment 513849.
OK, the most the temperature would go up to in the enclosure using a main heater bed Temp of 70ºC and the spare heater bed at 70ºC was about 15º above ambient. With the printer actually running I would expect a bit (maybe 5ºC) more but it's only going to reach 50ºC when the ambient temp is ~30ºC (YUK) and its not going to work below that. A smaller enclosure should go a bit higher as well.
I've been thinking a bit more about insulation and I reckon that bubble wrap covered in foil would be worth a go. In fact a foil jacket that pops over the entire enclosure might be a way that would leave the printer transparent for other types of printing. The printer enclosure may not be need be completely covered and it may be possible to leave the door uncovered with teh bubble warp so you can see what's going on. The idea of using a spare heater might still be worth while as it could provide additional input heat and it could be adjusted as required?
I think have some piece of that foil lined bubble wrap under the house that I might dig out. I won't have enough to cover my whole printer enclosure but there might be enough to cover part of it.
I had look online to see if anyone was using foil bubble wrap and stumbled across people using Aluminised Mylar space blanket. One fella claimed to get to 40ºC just throwing one of these blankets over his printer. The blanket are available on ebay for $3.50 probably worth a go.
This is why I was thinking double glazing might be the go. You lose so much heat through the walls.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
I've made an insulated dry box from plywood that's about 300mm high with a 15 W heater, the top is 6mm PC.
It's around 40 C at the bottom and mid to high 20s at the top.
The space blanket looks like a great idea, hadn't come across that before. I'll order some now to experiment with.
10 sheets of 600 x 600 x 2mm PC is going to cost me $155. A little cheaper if I buy a full sheet and cut myself.
Can't get to the Plastic Warehouse site to compare prices but it's definitely more expensive now.
Where is teh heater located - I assume its low down in the box?Quote:
Originally Posted by CgT
I've started to monitor the temps inside my enclosure while printing.
With room tempo at 17º and heater bed at 70º, the air temp at the bottom of the enclosure is 20º, about 200mm above the bed its about 26º, while it's 28º at the top of the enclosure.
My enclosure is not that air tight so it could be improved somewhat.
You might need a small fan to recirculate the air to get a more even temp.
A 30 or 40W incandescent light globes make good heaters as 95% of their energy is output as heat. I
I've used one connected to a dimmer to make a low temperature hotplate fro heat the contents of a 20L plastic tank. MDF Box with Galv sheet top easily reached 50º
I found my remaining roll of foil lined bubble wrap under the house but its less than a third needed to cover my enclosure..Quote:
The space blanket looks like a great idea, hadn't come across that before. I'll order some now to experiment with
Unless you are going to use the PC as a structural component, if you are going to insulate then 2mm thickness is not needed. 1mm or even 0,8mm is plenty.Quote:
10 sheets of 600 x 600 x 2mm PC is going to cost me $155. A little cheaper if I buy a full sheet and cut myself.
Can't get to the Plastic Warehouse site to compare prices but it's definitely more expensive now.
I'm currently printing with PLA-F, it's a mixture of PLA and ABS
Bed temp is 60-80, nozzle temp is 220-230ºC although various reports are it prints anywhere between 190 and 240.
No ABS smell and very little PLA odour as well.
No warping so no heated enclosure required.
Slight more springy than PLA
Good bed adhesion.
Prints really crisply.
The down side is its softening temp, about the same as PLA so no good for High temp app.
I bought a roll of PLA-F to try out about a year a go before I knew about its temperature issue. I'm using the left over roll to print prototypes.
I'm still intrigued as to why you need 70º to get PLA prints to stick to your bed.
I'm using 50ºC and a glue stick and I have to pry my prints off with a razor blade.
I have a 5v 40mm fan at the top to help circulate air and it has a removable cover to vent if necessary.
I snapped photo but my phone is refusing to share at the moment.
The PC definitely wouldn't be structural but 1mm is $15 a sheet 2mm is $15.50. just thought the 2mm
would be better if I ever get around to needing 100 C or more.
I'm printing with Esun PLA+ which has recommended bed temps of 60 - 80 C. Started at 60 but had the
corners lifting and found 70 works just fine. I would normally have started in the middle of the recommended temps
but didn't think any PLA would need higher than 60.
Such a small fan isn't likely to have much "throw" and won't push air very far.Quote:
Originally Posted by CgT
Usually these small fans end up just recirculating air in their immediate vicinity unless they are constrained at least in one direction.
The most important direction is probably vertically.
To achieve this with a small fan I usually arrange for it to be inside a vertical chimney eg seal one side of the fan up against a piece of PVC tubing the same ID as the fan and sucking or blowing air through the tube either up or down depending on the temperature gradient.
Sure. Maybe they have a glut of 2mm PC, every time I've bought it the price scales with thickness.Quote:
The PC definitely wouldn't be structural but 1mm is $15 a sheet 2mm is $15.50. just thought the 2mm
OK for PLA+ I understand. I've never tried it - there are so many PLAs out now its hard to keep. It sounds a bit like Polymax PLA which is supposed to be as strong as ABS with 20% better impact resistance but still not very good for higher temps.Quote:
I'm printing with Esun PLA+ which has recommended bed temps of 60 - 80 C. Started at 60 but had the
corners lifting and found 70 works just fine. I would normally have started in the middle of the recommended temps
but didn't think any PLA would need higher than 60.
Maybe I'm just lucky, or my applications are not too challenging but I have been impressed with stock/standard PLA for most of the things I print. I've found there is a difference between the $20 cheap ebay PLA versus a branded product, like X3D PLA. The X3D has really good bed adhesion and prints super clean. The ebay stuff gives mixed result but I never know how they're going to work.
The X3D stuff costs a lot more plus there delivery costs but I usually wait for it to be on special and buy a few rolls at that time.
They're an on-line store but they have a local free pickup point is not far from my local Bunnings so I usually time it with a Bunnings run.
The PLA-F I'm using at the moment is from ebay and came by accident - I ordered regular PLA but this roll of PLA-F turned up and when I pointe this out the seller refunded me $10 so I got the roll for $9.
Of my 15 or so current rolls of filament, 9 are straight PLA.
My son gave me some old (4 years?) rolls of PLA he could not get to print all that well on his printer and I put them through the dehumidifier and they seems to wprintork fine.
I've modified my printer enclosure with a foil space blanket and core flute outer shield.
If anyone is interested in how I did this I have posted the WIP over in the Metal Working 3D Printing forum.
Heated 3D printer enclosures.
Hi All,
I hope you're all well. There are any number of ways to build an enclosure, and I thought I'd add my 2 cents (and perhaps no sense) about my experience with my enclosure. I figure the question has long since been answered for the OP but I thought I'd help anyone trawling the thread for ideas "after the fact".
Some things you should know about my situation before we begin:
1. I live in Canberra, and if it's not -2oC to -6oC on wintery mornings it's probably only 2-3oC. Conversely, it can be anything up to 41oC in summer. Although winter seems to last about 7-8 months of the year.. and summer can seem like a few days (like last summer), or maybe 7 weeks or so in hot/dry years.
2. I have a completely improvised enclosure, with draft/door seals around all openings. It uses a single glazed 4mm polycarbonate sheeting structure for windows/door, and a mixture of scrap bench top/MDF/plywood for the construction. The lack of any metal in the frame allows only minimal thermal bridging so with the thicker polycarb sheeting, it's not too bad in retention. Would it be better to have double glazing? Sure, but I was using my scrap pile, and I'm ok with that.
3. I have a little Prusa MK3S. Not some massive CR10 or larger unit with inferno options.
4. The printer enclosure (and printer within) are located in the garage (the only place I have room) which is completely lacking any semblence of insulation. So there are times I don't recommend printing.
5. I mostly print in ABS/PETG.
My main reasons for building the enclosure:
1. I have to keep the printer out in the shed, so something to keep the sawdust/dust out is needed.
2. Drafts could be an issue, but for me it's ambient temperature that needs most intervention.
3. I wanted to protect the printer from any flying debris (broken grinding disks, router chips, you know... general high velocity debris)
Once the printer is running, the ambient temperature in the enclosure is more than enough for my style of printing. However, getting it started in the cold is a bit more tricky.
Interesting fact, the Prusa won't fire up if the ambient temperature is too low. Well.. it'll turn on, but you'll get a temperature warning and that's it. I can't even tell it to turn the heat bed on or the hot end to warm itself up. Since I don't print that often, I'll often do my printing when the conditions are favourable. (I'll start in the afternoon in winter, or late night in summer. As such, I rarely have any issues with high temperatures in Canberra, but I can get the enclosure up to about 35-40 in winter if I have to. Seems to print ok in that range.
So if it's too cold, my solution follows one of three paths:
1. I have a mains powered dehumidifier, it's basically a small heater with silica gel. If I leave it on overnight, the enclosure keeps the warm air contained enough to fire up, and from there, the printer adds the rest of the warmth. In the dead of winter, I can reliably keep the internal temperature at about 18oC without the printers help using this method.
2. Sometimes, I'll turn my heat gun onto 40-50oC, and uncap the hole for power cords, and run it through the hole for a few minutes. Again, once started, the enclosure will stay warm (sans any help from gun/printer for the better part of an hour). Obviously, the printer helps during the print itself.
3. If you're technologically inclined.... you might like this one. I put my not-so-little laptop in the lower shelf of my enclosure, and do some 3D rendering, while slicing models, and updating firmware. If you're the Bitcoin mining sort, a couple of GPUs will certainly warm that enclosure up too. Basically, I'm just using some waste heat to do something useful for once. So there's some merits to leaving enough space to contain stuff. I was inspired when a friend of mine used his water cooled gaming PC to heat his tropical fish aquarium. It worked well but the salt water didn't do his heat exchange much good.
Now that it's vaguely summery (by Canberra standards) I store my partially used spools of filament in the lower shelf. It's handy and convenient.
I just want to say, that in summer, you don't want double glazing if you want to keep your door closed for sound damping purposes/dust protection, the heat will build up too much. This is where a little less insulation is a good thing. While I can happily use a Prusa without being bothered by it in open air... many other models are too noisy to pull this off.
Of course, you can use fans and maze-like channels going in and out of the box, both channels lined with sound damping materials to allow airflow through while preventing noise. You could even put filters on the intake to stop dust getting in. In short, you need to decide just how complicated you want to go. All of a sudden, that Lack table and some polycarb is looking pretty cheap and easy.
Personally, I don't like the cardboard/core flute method... yes, it works when everything goes as expected. However, if you're using an Anet A8 (somewhat renowned for catching on fire) then it's going to add fuel/sticky carcinogenic goodness to an already bad situation. Yes polycarbonate isn't much better once a fire situation is well underway, but a thicker material with a higher melting point is a little less prone to catching on fire. Also, because I have it basically sealed up, the lack of oxygen should slow things down for a while.
Anyway, I really appreciate that my humble enclosure reduces printing problems, helps it to run in a wider range of ambient temperatures, and protects it from dust, impacts, and other hazards found in a garage-styled workshop.
Attachment 519033
Here's my enclosure, each post is actually a bunch of plywood planks glued together, trimmed, and painted. The shelves were from a free benchtop I got on Gumtree, and yes, I am aware of the circular saw burns in the front plank. I kept the burns there to remind me it's a scrap wood project. I have a smoke alarm installed on the ceiling of the enclosure for safety. I have my little dehumidifier (white cylindrical thing to the left of the printer), and my little Raspberry Pi (lower shelf) with web cam (upper shelf) for Octoprint.
I actually added the drawer to the bottom as an afterthought. It holds spare printing sheets, maintenance manuals, tips, tools, etc.
But why stop there...
Attachment 519036
I added some LED strip lighting, some adjustable feet so it will never wobble as the printer shakes itself around, a "safety switch" (dedicated RCD) to reduce the chance of any electrocution/fire. All in all, I'm very happy with it.
It was more work than a Lack table based enclosure... but that's not surprising. However, it used hardware, wood, and paint I already had laying about from other projects. I think the only expenses were the LED strip lights, the RCD switch, and a few screws/glue.
Anyway, I hope this rambling tale helps someone out there. Good luck with your 3D printing.
Ham