It’s all gone too Poo

I’m Trying to put a finish on a Saw I’ve just finished shaping,and well its not going to plan [emoji35].

This is the second coat, the first coat was not as bad,but this one is worse.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5bad18033a.jpg


Timber is Jarrah an was first sanded to 600 grit followed by a wash down with turps then aloud to air dry before a coat of Feast Watson clear Varnish matt(Don’t its not clever) was applied.

This was sanded back lightly where needed,there were a few blemishes with 600 and washed with turps then dried off.

Second coat was applied, and with in an hour, I’m getting this white froth in places,the finish is being applied with a new clean brush.

So to the brains trust what am doing wrong I’m frustrated?

This is meant to be a three part finish that AKA Mr BUSHMILLAR shared with me.
Two coats of Varnish.
Then rub in some Scandinavian Teak Oil with steel wool until the oil has gone.
Then buff with a soft cloth and apply some furniture polish or wax.

Cheers Matthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...df169280b3.jpg

not going to lie, I'm on a 4k monitor and the quality of those photo's is not great, almost looks like a water colour. Makes it very hard to see the issues, i would take it outside in some natural day light and try again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

This is meant to be a three part finish that AKA Mr BUSHMILLAR shared with me.
Two coats of Varnish.
Then rub in some Scandinavian Teak Oil with steel wool until the oil has gone.
Then buff with a soft cloth and apply some furniture polish or wax.

---

It's hard to see exactly what the issue is based on the photos, so I'll take some stabs at it.
1. If the blotchy patches exist in real life, did you make sure you had completed sanding each of the grits fully before moving on the the next one?
2. If the white parts of the images are actually white, and not just reflections, did the varnish have enough time to fully cure before sanding? Or, is the varnish old or water contaminated?

Not related to your issues, I'm also intrigued by the notion of putting oil on top of varnish. Would either you or Bushmiller care to elaborate?

Will upload some better pictures later, but in my defence members of the court I only pushed the button on the IPad once the button is pushed it’s completely out of my control[emoji6].
Lance yes it’s the white frothy stuff that is the problem?

Cheers Matt.

Better pic,
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fae958bc49.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LanceC

Not related to your issues, I'm also intrigued by the notion of putting oil on top of varnish. Would either you or Bushmiller care to elaborate?

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Lance

It is a technique I have used for a long time and I got from the Wattyl brand (it used to be written on their tins of matt varnish). The Scandinavian Teak Oil is very thin and acts as a lubricant for the steel wool (you can use a scourer, kitchen style but not too coarse, if you don't like steel wool) and results in a sliky smooth finish that has a sheen similar to that obtained with satin varnish. However, the texture of the finish is vastly superior. I suspect that Danish Oil could be substituted. As I have run out of the teak Oil and have plenty of Danish I plan to try that. After all that I sometimes then add furniture polish and buff that too.

I am not sure what has happened with the finish on Matt's handle, but I would sand it back and try again. It does sound and look as though some moisture was either present at the start or has got in during the drying period.

Regards
Paul

I'm with Bushmiller it would appear that moisture is the problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The Scandinavian Teak Oil is very thin and acts as a lubricant for the steel wool ...

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Ahhh, got it.

Ok if moisture is the problem, it maybe and it’s a maybe not an admission of guilt, that after my wash down with Turps, which may have a moisture content.
I didn’t leave enough dry time, tho it was a few hours during the day,the main issue with this is, if My lovely beautiful wife(Suck) hears this is will validly her opinion of me being inpatient [emoji45][emoji45][emoji45].

Bugger.

Cheers Matt.

Moisture and possibly too low a temperature for curing . . . DAMIKT!

We are clear to go,for Scandinavian Teak Oil just waiting on Australian Post[emoji6].

Thanks for all the help and suggestions people.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2d225e4827.jpg


Thats about 3 hours of drying time so far,so fairly confident I’m over that hurdle an on the main straight.

Matt

I really like the look of that handle The proportions look just right and the finesse is very pleasing too. I am sure you have mentioned the timber before but.....?

Regard
Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Matt

I really like the look of that handle The proportions look just right and the finesse is very pleasing too. I am sure you have mentioned the timber before but.....?

Regard
Paul

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Thanks Paul.

[emoji6] I’ve mentioned the timber a few Times, it’s Eucalyptus marginata common name Jarrah.

Cheers Matt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Lance

It is a technique I have used for a long time and I got from the Wattyl brand (it used to be written on their tins of matt varnish).

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And on their tins of teak oil. :U
Attachment 501138

I wonder if you can still buy the stuff, I haven’t got much left after forty years. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Picko

And on their tins of teak oil. :U
Attachment 501138

I wonder if you can still buy the stuff, I haven’t got much left after forty years. :D

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Picko

You have raised an interesting question there as i went looking for the product for Matt. The Wattyl website does not seem to list either the varnish or the oil, which leads me to believe the company is phasing out these products. Ebay did have some Teak oil listed, but it seemed horrendously exxpensive and far more than I remember it costing.

The fact is that you can use any matt varnish and substitute any thin oil. I think Danish oil would be fine and I will be using that next.

Regards
Paul

Yeah Paul, danish oil seems to work the same. I lost this tin for some time and used rustins danish as a sub.

As discussed last week white paint would have been ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pagie

As discussed last week white paint would have been ok.

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No,
Behave yourself or we won’t talk to you on Sunday.

Cheers Matt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

It is a technique I have used for a long time and I got from the Wattyl brand (it used to be written on their tins of matt varnish). The Scandinavian Teak Oil is very thin and acts as a lubricant for the steel wool (you can use a scourer, kitchen style but not too coarse, if you don't like steel wool) and results in a sliky smooth finish that has a sheen similar to that obtained with satin varnish.

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I've used the same method many times using Feast Watson Fine Buffing Oil over polyurethane. Works very well. Method described here:

Fine Buffing Oil | Feast Watson Products

If the oil is only there for lubrication, wouldn’t paraffin or light machine oil do the same job? I’m trying to understand why a special oil is required, given that it will never touch the timber through the varnish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LanceC

If the oil is only there for lubrication, wouldn’t paraffin or light machine oil do the same job? I’m trying to understand why a special oil is required, given that it will never touch the timber through the varnish.

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Lance,
I’ve been trying to work this out myself.

My thoughts are the Varnish seals the Timber, similar to a grain sealer.
The oil is then used as a lubricant for the abrasive be it sand paper, steel wool, scotch brite pad.

A wax then gives a final polish finish??.

In a way it sounds similar to how Auto paint is finished??

Happy to be advised I’ve got it all wrong[emoji6]

Cheers Matt.

Lance , sorry just realised I didn’t actually answer you question, but I agree would any thin light oil would work, as long as the wax would gell with it ?

Cheers Matt.

Wow three posts in so many minutes I’m on fire [emoji6].

This literally arrived on the Door step Ten minutes ago, but now I’m actually confused because the can says Scandinavian oil,not Scandinavian Teak Oil !!!!.
Should i just go ahead an use this ?????[emoji3061]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...53dea7cd37.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...79891272c6.jpg

ZINSSER Rustoleum Scandinavian Oil (Interior) 437ml | South East Clearance Centre

There’s a link to were i obtained the Scandinavian oil,

Cheers Matt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LanceC

If the oil is only there for lubrication, wouldn’t paraffin or light machine oil do the same job? I’m trying to understand why a special oil is required, given that it will never touch the timber through the varnish.

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Lance

Never having tried any other oil, I can only surmise. I think lingering smell might be an issue with the oils you have mentioned. Otherwise any thin oil may be sufficient providing it is not a solvent for the coats of varnish. The original Scandinavian teak Oil I referenced is extremely thin. Danish Oil is a similar viscosity, but I am unfamiliar with the Scandinavian Oil Matt has sourced. I would suggest trying on a separate test piece first.

The time we used Danish Oil, it was used by itself on a raw wood dining table and was rubbed in with a scourer. It comes up looking similar to the varnish oil, but not quite so tough.

Regards
Paul

Hi Matt .
I just re read your first post and skipped through the rest to the end so may be repeating stuff said that I missed .

The white problem at the start of this . That's the turps doing it . Its a common problem if mineral turps is used wrong .

That's why when making your own Beeswax finishes Pure turpentine is used in the mix and not Mineral turps .

That's why when you need a washing down soloution We mix linseed oil with the Mineral Turps.

That's Oil and Turps . Oil 25 % Turps 75% . A jar of that is on every Pro French polishers bench Ive ever seen .

Its used for washing down and buffing off dusty furniture for the show room as long as its not a wax finish on it .

Used when rubbing back a dry finish with fine sand paper before the next application . It keeps the paper free from clogging up .

And it can be used in the last stages your talking about where the finish is rubbed back with fine steel wool or similar stuff . We place oil and turps on the dry finish and dab a few spots of beeswax polish on then rub back with fine 0000 liberon steel wool . It leaves a nice dull shine . If you use anything but Liberon 0000 it wont be the finish I'm talking about . Not as important on a tool handle . Crucial on a table top that is about to be inspected by a client .

Its a step too dull for my liking though on table tops . I french polish then wax so am able to bring the finish a step up from being too dull before waxing . One of the great things about shellac is the ability to adjust the shine to any level wanted .

It does a lot of good things you cant do with oil finishes out of a can . Which is why after thousands of years its still around Id say . All this other tinned stuff comes and goes . Some of its good though . Has its uses .

Get some shellac to play with one day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by auscab

Hi Matt .
I just re read your first post and skipped through the rest to the end so may be repeating stuff said that I missed .

The white problem at the start of this . That's the turps doing it . Its a common problem if mineral turps is used wrong .

That's why when making your own Beeswax finishes Pure turpentine is used in the mix and not Mineral turps .

That's why when you need a washing down soloution We mix linseed oil with the Mineral Turps.

That's Oil and Turps . Oil 25 % Turps 75% . A jar of that is on every Pro French polishers bench Ive ever seen .

Its used for washing down and buffing off dusty furniture for the show room as long as its not a wax finish on it .

Used when rubbing back a dry finish with fine sand paper before the next application . It keeps the paper free from clogging up .

And it can be used in the last stages your talking about where the finish is rubbed back with fine steel wool or similar stuff . We place oil and turps on the dry finish and dab a few spots of beeswax polish on then rub back with fine 0000 liberon steel wool . It leaves a nice dull shine . If you use anything but Liberon 0000 it wont be the finish I'm talking about . Not as important on a tool handle . Crucial on a table top that is about to be inspected by a client .

Its a step too dull for my liking though on table tops . I french polish then wax so am able to bring the finish a step up from being too dull before waxing . One of the great things about shellac is the ability to adjust the shine to any level wanted .

It does a lot of good things you cant do with oil finishes out of a can . Which is why after thousands of years its still around Id say . All this other tinned stuff comes and goes . Some of its good though . Has its uses .

Get some shellac to play with one day.

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Thanks Auscab,

But just to clarify, because this stuff all goes over my head, and this may help others as well.
I really get confused when we start talking Turps,Mineral Turpentine,Raw linseed oil,Boiled Linseed oil,kero,wax,beeswax,my head is spinning and I haven’t even opened the bottles yet,[emoji6] to take a whiff.

So,I mix 25% Raw linseed oil(Not Boiled linseed)Diggers Brand
75% Mineral Turpentine(Diggers Brand).
And use that to polish cut back with, have some 2000 wet and dry on hand, but i only have the green shed type 0000 steel wool on hand.

Then apply a hard wax and buff.

Think first year apprentice [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

Thanks Auscab,

But just to clarify, because this stuff all goes over my head, and this may help others as well.
I really get confused when we start talking Turps,Mineral Turpentine,Raw linseed oil,Boiled Linseed oil,kero,wax,beeswax,my head is spinning and I haven’t even opened the bottles yet,[emoji6] to take a whiff.

So,I mix 25% Raw linseed oil(Not Boiled linseed)Diggers Brand
75% Mineral Turpentine(Diggers Brand).
And use that to polish cut back with, have some 2000 wet and dry on hand, but i only have the green shed type 0000 steel wool on hand.

Then apply a hard wax and buff.



Think first year apprentice [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

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Mix 25% Raw or Boiled . It doesn't matter. Your using it then removing it . Or removing as much as possible with a dry rag .

2000 is a lot to fine IMHO. 400 grit is the go . Used 400 grit if you want finer . New 400 has a bit to much bite if your at final stages of finishing so rub two bits together to remove the fresh bite . Ive been polishing 42 years and the only time Ive used over 400 grit, as tought ,for woodwork , was when I started painting a car . Cutting and buffing a paint job on a car before wax .

On hard lacquer jobs on wood, sprayed like modern stuff is done, then it's done with a cut and buff . But I don't see that as a quality thing at all . Its fast , thick , glossy gloop with rounded corners . Hand work in finishing gets much nicer results .

When you get your oil and turps mix in a jar . Play with cutting back finishes before next stage .

Have a go at cutting back raw wood with fine paper then buffing dry as well . Its nice .

Its a lovely way to finish the insides of drawers .

If you play with shellac on a polishing rubber, a thin wipe over on these dry wood cut backs is lovely .Its got to be a thin shellac mix though . Needs explaining more . Sorry that's more like 4th year stuff :)

You will have to use the green shed 0000 then .

liberon is sold on ebay Liberon - Steel Wool 2 100g - 15065 5450011000158 | eBay

Or same stuff here is $22 I think .
Graeme Brown Antiques

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

And use that to polish cut back with, have some 2000 wet and dry on hand, but i only have the green shed type 0000 steel wool on hand.

Then apply a hard wax and buff.

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Just thinking more on this .
I use 400 grit but then come back and re body with shellac . So put more finer coats on by rubbing . It gets a finer build up on top of my 400 grit before finishing.

I'm not into modern cut and buff finishing as I was saying above on lacquers but the 2000 wet and dry then your 0000 steel wool on your oil finished handle should be a good thing . Better quality steel wool would make a difference .
Ill send you a small amount if you like Matt . Tell us if you can see a difference when you try it out .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by auscab

Just thinking more on this .
I use 400 grit but then come back and re body with shellac . So put more finer coats on by rubbing . It gets a finer build up on top of my 400 grit before finishing.

I'm not into modern cut and buff finishing as I was saying above on lacquers but the 2000 wet and dry then your 0000 steel wool on your oil finished handle should be a good thing . Better quality steel wool would make a difference .
Ill send you a small amount if you like Matt . Tell us if you can see a difference when you try it out .

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Thanks Auscab,

Yes I was thinking the same,ie a finer cut with say 2000 is not going to cause any damage.
Just some lost effort.

Im happy to crap some steel wool from one of the suppliers you linked too.

Cheers Matt.

Well I think i will leave this as is for now, the handle actually feels quite nice with a very low sheen.
I can’t power buff it because that stuff is else we’re.[emoji17]

But I’m quite happy with how it looks,especially because I normally like a lot more gloss,times they are changing.

I’m waiting on some “special” bolts to arrive in the mail,once they arrive i can finish the saw,and i put it up in the Saws Handmade section.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d2cbb09615.jpg
Cheers Matt.

Lookin mighty good there Matt :2tsup::2tsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ironwood

Lookin mighty good there Matt :2tsup::2tsup:

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Thanks Brad, an apologies for not using a Table cloth [emoji20].

Cheers Matt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

Thanks Brad, an apologies for not using a Table cloth [emoji20].

Cheers Matt.

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I’m glad you bought that matter up, because I didn’t want to mention it :roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ironwood

I’m glad you bought that matter up, because I didn’t want to mention it :roll:

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It took a bit of guts [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Wattyl was an excellent 100 yr old Aussie company founded on wood finishes but in recent times has been bought and sold by several offshore entities ie 2010-Valspar USA,Sherwin Williams of USA bought Valspar in 2017,the Danish group Hempel bought Wattyl from SW in 2021. It would therefore not be surprising if in all of these changes some product rationalisation took place. Whilst I have been a long time user of Wattyl products there are also several local small specialist companies who have excellent products of both urethane/alkyds as well as oils and polishes. It is also worth mentioning that some solvents/thinners such as "Mineral Turps"& "Metho" that are retailed here can be less than "pure" and can under certain drying conditions contribute to blushing or milky looking results. This is more of an issue in winter in our southern states.
Paintman

Looks nice, I can send you some paint if you like.:D

Looking good! Can't wait to see the final product.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pagie

Looks nice, I can send you some paint if you like.:D

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Please that would be handy [emoji20].

Cheers Matt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cklett

Looking good! Can't wait to see the final product.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

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That would make two of us, Australian post are you hearing.
I’m waiting on some special Saw bolts.

Cheers Matt.[emoji6]

Very, very nice. Hang angle looks perfect and love the detail on the back :D