I'm Sorry, but

I have been on this planet since July 1942. My earliest memory is WWII ending. Not remembering WWII precisely but rather the events as it was my Fathers birthday and other meaningless to you events.

I remember seeing Eisenhauer and Truman during campaign stops around the corner from our home in Brooklyn.

I remember my mother asking who I voted for in my first presidential election. ("As my conscience dictated") 1964

Except for one school board member election, I have voted in every election since then. Since I retired in 2003 I have worked about 18 elections as a polling place worker.

Thinking of all of our presidential elections, I do not recall voting "for" an individual but rather against their opponent. In 2016 I could not vote for either Hillary or Donald without regurgitation so I voted Libertarian. After the events of yesterday where our president was actually encouraging rioting and encouraging that the rioters take over the meeting chambers of the House of Representatives and Senate (Our reincarnation of parliament) by force, I am ashamed of our government.

For the events of January 6, 2020 I do sincerely apologize to the planet. Please accept my apology. I sit here and communicate with people from all over the world. I am thankful that these conversations do not involve video, as I would not be able to hide my embarrassment.

MATE, I hear your pain.
I personally feel that the current POTUS has way overstepped his role. Everyone I know has seen his tirades as a spoilt rich kid not getting his way and calling on his gang to get what he wanted. I don't know how those in service kept their peace and patience.
Now Biden has balance of power maybe he can restore some of the tarnished images.
Keep safe
Lyle

Mate, you were thoughtful and voted how you saw it best. You didn't buy into the cult. Brother, you have nothing to apologise for.

You're ahead of about 60 odd million (my back of the cigarette packet calculation of how many USA citizens believe the result was fraudulent) of your compatriots that bought into the cult. Jim Jones was a complete failure compared to Trump!

If yesterday didn't shake their beliefs, I really don't know what will.

I feel sorry for the woman that was shot and her family, but she made the decision to be there. It seems her family have no idea what happened to her.

She is now just a single data point representative of many families now.

Rich

Thank you for stating your views on the situation.

I think many people just shake their head and ask how this can possibly have happened. While I don't intend to offer my thoughts on that particular aspect I do wonder how the republican party could go along with the absurd theatrics etc for so long. The POTUS, the party he represents and the antics of his followers have diminished the United States in the eyes of the world to my mind and my heart goes out to the many Americans who saw this developing and were powerless to prevent it or intervene in any way.

The next few days will be most interesting from a number of standpoints.

Regards
Paul

I don't think it is just me, but I feel Donald Trump has lost his marbles. More so since the start of November 2020.

A country of over 300 million and Trump and Biden were the two best candidates for the President? Or they were the only ones with pockets deep enough to run?

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Originally Posted by Handyjack

I don't think it is just me, but I feel Donald Trump has lost his marbles. More so since the start of November 2020.

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Just goes to show that money can't buy brains.

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A country of over 300 million and Trump and Biden were the two best candidates for the President? Or they were the only ones with pockets deep enough to run?

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That's what I said to my American friends in 2016 - that many million people and the best two candidates that you can find for president are Donald and Hilary?

Let's hope that the "Happy" in Happy New Year kicks in sooner rather than later.

I empathise with your thoughts RR, no need to personally apologise.

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Originally Posted by Handyjack

A country of over 300 million and Trump and Biden were the two best candidates for the President? Or they were the only ones with pockets deep enough to run?

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I often think similar with some of the candidates hanging around here at the pointy end of our political arena :~
Is it just a reflection on how stupid and easily lead ( mislead) the general population is ?

Some of you want to know how could Americans be that stupid. I will try to explain without insulting anyone.

There is a contingent in the US that is obsessed with activities that occur in private and are best left private or a medical office. This contingent will seek out a candidate that will advance their obsession in the political arena. These candidates generally are one issue candidates and most have no real other political views. These candidates are inept at performing their duties as an elected official other than advancing their one issue. Unfortunately the current one issue candidate has a more prominent obsession, "ME". He believes that the universe revolves around him. WHAT? You don't believe me? Just ask him. :)

The contingent will support an additional candidates at all levels in elections that supports the opposing view to split the opposing vote so that their preferred candidate will win.

This issue, the contingent that is advancing the issue is extremely controversial and I really don't want to get into it here. I lost a friend because when I said that his father, as a leader of a small part of a local contingent was wrong in throwing a particular statistic about. Their interpretation was factually incorrect. It is one of those 'Figures don't lie but liars can figure.'

For the fanatics of that contingent that are outraged and you know who you are, please realize that I didn't name any contingent. Please understand that you will never change my views nor will I change your views.
I DO NOT WANT TO GET INTO IT HERE.

I wonder how many in the US expect Biden to see out two terms due to his age. Those that oppose him will go nuts if they finish up with a female president who is not white and was not elected to the position.

"We will name no contingencies!"

"None? How do we know what we are opposed to as it cannot be named?"

"Sssh you cretin! You'll alert the proletariat!"



Sounds monty-python-esque :)

"Dont mention ze war!"

I found it very interesting that the White House staff and the president has condemned the actions of 6th Jan 2020 comparatively quickly compared to the lefty loonies, and yet 'antifa' is just an idea according to sleepy creepy Joe.

edit: my apologies, I mispoke. The comparison being the time it took white house and president to condemn Jan 6, compared to the time it took the lefty loonies to condemn antifa, BLM and all that arson, looting and murder.

Chris,
I think you are right. But we had Barrack Obama.

I believe that Obama was elected because both he and Michelle portrayed themselves as upper working class parents that had struggled to pay off their student loans while raising two girls. They represented the typical working American family to the voters with two kids, initially no dog but eventually dad gives in, a mortgage and just like the family across the street or down the block.

Barrack Obama proved that it doesn't matter if you are white, brown, tan or green with purple stripes as long as you follow the time honored principal, 'When in Rome do as the Romans do'.

As for Joe Biden making it to the next election in 2024, I hope so. We are both the same age and I understand that the body just wears out. Although I am 3 up over Joe. I've had one knee replaced three times and I think Joe is still on his originals. :)

In the primary election I voted for Harris. I think that she would make an excellent president. But then we have ~ No not going that far off into the deep end.

Happy New Year

Only 11½ more days.

And they are talking full impeachment or using the 25th amendment to remove him from office.

Nothing could come soon enough.

I see there are those among us that think the BLM protests caused because it is often unsafe to be black in public in the USA, are the same thing as trying to overthrow (however incompetently and stupidly) the lawful government.

Respectfully; you need to read more. You do not understand either issue well enough.

If you want to have a private message exchange about this, I am happy to have that.

In fact, I would be happy to talk to you either in person or on the phone. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by rrich

And they are talking full impeachment or using the 25th amendment to remove him from office.

Nothing could come soon enough.

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Rich

This was the drift of my comment that the next few days would be interesting. Actually, they are potentially alarming, particularly if Trump stays. Having said that, I saw a report that he is packing up his toys and going to Florida, although there too the rumours are that he is unpopular at his private resort. and the locals are doing everything in their power to ensure he does not make that his base.

Regards
Paul

The POTUS apparently has the right/power, to pardon anyone for anything that they may have done or will do up until he leaves office. I am fully expecting a pardon to all the protesters in the Capitol building protest/riot. I remember vaguely him saying something like I'm the POTUS and can do anything I want. No wonder people are scared.
Interesting times still ahead.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I am fully expecting a pardon to all the protesters in the Capitol building protest/riot.

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Not a chance. He has already condemned the actions of the violent protesters, just as he has done in the past for both right and left. I'm still waiting for war with North Korea, but it seems Trump was too busy brokering better relations between N. Korea and the USA/world, while also being busy brokering peace deals in the middle east. I truly hope the wars that Trump started end soon...but I guess they'd have to start first. lololol. So much fear mongering through the press. Without Covid, the red wave would have wiped out any hint of blue. Makes ya think about how and why Covid was let out of lab, but I don't deal in conspiracy.

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Originally Posted by Kuffy

Without Covid, the red wave would have wiped out any hint of blue.

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Possibly so, but there's no sure way of finding out.

What cannot be disputed is that despite Covid and everything else that happened during his presidency he still got just under 50 % of the vote.

I read somewhere (sorry, cant find the reference again) that 54% of Americans surveyed felt that they were better off under Trump.

The US is a very different environment to Australia. In a country where a fair percentage of the population go to bed with a loaded pistol on the bedside table, maybe a President who sleeps next to the Nuclear First Strike Option Button is something that appeals to them.

Stan Grant wrote this today on the ABC News .... The sick politics at the heart of this week'''s US crisis go deeper than Donald Trump - ABC News

As an outsider, it looks like a country about to tear itself apart.

In Florida there is 'The Intra Coastal Waterway'. A funny name for a navigable waterway or almost a fresh water river with many inlets to the Atlantic ocean. A city on the West side of the ICW is West Palm Beach. When Connie and I were married we went straight from the church in the Daytona Beach area to find a place in the West Palm Beach area where I was to start a new job. On the East side of the ICW is Palm Beach.

In Florida many retirees supplement their income with rental flats. Usually the way to find these rentals is to cruise the streets looking for "For Rent" signs. So being stupid we are cruising the streets of Palm Beach looking for a place to rent. Suddenly there is a police cruiser, lights flashing behind us. I pull over and the cop gets out, hand on his gun and starts the conversation with "What the eff do you think you are doing? We have had about 20 calls reporting you two." When I explain, he goes back to his cruiser and comes back with a general area map. He shows us the 'Politics' of the general metro area. He pointed out areas where we are likely to find rental housing and the relative costs to expect in various areas. He explained that Palm Beach residents don't like newcomers no how and generally dislike renters. We found a place in Rivera Beach with an Italian couple that could have been our grandparents, treated us as such and we treated them as grandparents.

Now that you understand the environment, to gain the zoning changes necessary for the Mar-a-Lago Club, it was necessary to guarantee that no one would live at the club permanently and not more than 21 days per year. Oh how the snake in the grass turns on one to bite them in the rear end. It seems that the residents of Palm Beach do not want Trump as a resident no where, no how. They are using the zoning to prevent Trump from living at Mar-a-Lago. There are some 80 million people in the US living in terror. They are all afraid that Trump may want to come and live near them.

Hearing themes like "make America great again ", "black lives matter", "antifa", etc ad nauseam.
Makes you wonder when the United fell off the United States of America?
How do you fix the pleyhora of troubles and issues. Not an easy, quick or cheap solution.
Hopefully things'll cool down to somewhat normal again.
USA is not alone in its' troubles.
What's that saying "throwing stones in a glass house ".

Lyle, true. We need to reflect that it is, ultimately, a human experience.

Reminds us that Australia is hardly free of contention and divide.

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Originally Posted by doug3030

Possibly so, but there's no sure way of finding out.
What cannot be disputed is that despite Covid and everything else that happened during his presidency he still got just under 50 % of the vote. 50%

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In terms of total votes, DT got 46.5% - so not really just under, Biden got 51.3% that's closer to "just over" but in comparative terms it was pretty decisive.

However, in terms of electoral college votes the trigger margin was just 0.02% - if DT had got just 42,000 votes more in the right states the electoral college would have been tied qt 269 all and then the House state delegations would have then decided the election. As republicans will hold the majority of "state delegations" in the new Congress, and they undoubtedly would have chosen Trump.

This is an interesting relatively non-partisan analysis of the election results
The 2020 Election by the Numbers | Council on Foreign Relations

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Originally Posted by BobL

In terms of total votes, DT got 46.5% - so not really just under, Biden got 51.3% that's closer to "just over" but in comparative terms it was pretty decisive.

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"Just under" and "just over" are relative terms and context dependent. As a margin in an election, 46.5% to 51.3% is a comfortable win.

But when the election is won and the 46.5% don't see it as fair, and they are the side with all the guns, if they decide to take matters further then I know who the smart money would be betting on.

What's going on in the US right now is uncharted territory. could well play out in ways that we would not want to see. I hope that cooler heads prevail and the will of the people who voted is respected.

However the situation is currently reacting more along the lines of a cult than a political party and that could be very dangerous.

Think about world politics. If our major ally and treaty partner whom we rely on for our defence suddenly hobbles itself with internal squabbles, will we be able to rely on them if another major player on the world scene decides to take the opportunity to make some changes in our region while there is nobody available to assist us?

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Originally Posted by doug3030

"Just under" and "just over" are relative terms and context dependent. As a margin in an election, 46.5% to 51.3% is a comfortable win.

But when the election is won and the 46.5% don't see it as fair, and they are the side with all the guns, if they decide to take matters further then I know who the smart money would be betting on.

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Humm . . . . the 46.5% don't own ALL the guns with registered republicans are about twice as likely to own a gun as others. To make matters worse most gun owners (on all sides) are not competent gun users and end up killing and injuring themselves, or many of their own, (ie criminal V criminal) as others. A really sad indictment of this is that of the ~40,000 annual gun deaths in the US ~24,000 are suicides.

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Originally Posted by BobL

Humm . . . . the 46.5% don't own ALL the guns with registered republicans are about twice as likely to own a gun as others. To make matters worse most gun owners (on all sides) are not competent gun users and end up killing and injuring themselves, or many of their own, (ie criminal V criminal) as others. A really sad indictment of this is that of the ~40,000 annual gun deaths in the US ~24,000 are suicides.

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Whichever way you want to spin it, it still means that there are enough guns, or more specifically, idiots with guns in the US to tie up enough of their national resources to make it difficult if not impossible for the US to carry out it's self-appointed role as the world's policeman. If it comes to that, and I hope it doesn't, there are serious implications for Australia and our region.

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Originally Posted by doug3030

Whichever way you want to spin it, it still means that there are enough guns, or more specifically, idiots with guns in the US to tie up enough of their national resources to make it difficult if not impossible for the US to carry out it's self-appointed role as the world's policeman. If it comes to that, and I hope it doesn't, there are serious implications for Australia and our region.

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Definitely agree there's too many guns all round.

6th Jan 2021 ?? :)


And who said "We welcome in the new year and see out 2020 - it can't get any worse." It's not off to a good start in the good ol' USA.

Threads closed at OPs' request.

Good move. :2tsup: