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In a previous thread someone (actually Woodpixel) mentioned Haymes Tricoat as a suitable primer/filler. I wanted to ask about it but didn’t want to hijack that thread.
So, do you paint it or spray it. How quickly does it dry. Does it sand easily. What colour is it?
I guess what I’m asking is how does it compare to automotive high-build primers and spray putties.
I can find it on their website but can’t download the data sheet for some reason.
Cheers and thanks
Arron
Also cost and value. Does it go far?
Cheers
I was introduced to the stuff by a client I make toys and boxes for.
Previously I was using just some cheapo crap from Bunnings. Their stuff is fine if you are painting walls, but 100% horrible for what we would like to use it for. I'm certain there are early threads of my lamenting how horrible my finishes were and "isn't there a better way!"....
Anyway, my client hand painted the stuff on, then sands it all flat with a block. She found it quite by accident and simply asked me to use it as she's used it for years and trusted it's performance. As I spray everything she asked me to do it for her.
(Clients never pay enough for painting!!!)
Ok! To my experiences! I spray using a velocity cup. You get them from Pro spray places. TriCoat is super thick and even if you run 90psi it won't come out. I add water until it jjjjuuuuusssstttt gives a good flow in the cup, never more.
If it's too watery, it sits to long and orange peels. If you love sanding, then this isn't a problem.... But as I'm a lazy sod I like to spray so it's flat 😂😂😎😎
Watch the heat of outside and spray it OUT of the sun. Spray a tack coat then two thins... Just like an auto undercoat. When flashed, I use a cheap (the cheapest) can of black spray can aerosol and put down the finest dust. This acts like a highlighter, so when you give it a sand using 180 or 240 you see the low spots (the black dust remains in the low spots!).... Again, another trick borrowed from Auto sprayers (I'll find a YouTube on this technique).
After sanding, give it another thin coat and another dusting if you want a perfect flat (which you will) 😁
I give 15 to 20 minutes after spraying to sanding. Once the coat flash-evaporates you can leave/move it into the sun. If you give it sun too early it will bloom. This is BAD. You can actually watch it flash... Get down on an angle and watch it go from wet to dry (like the sand at the beach after the wave rolls back out). It only takes a few minutes.
AVOID hot days, cold days, direct sun, the object being hot from the sun (it should be ambient) and also the afternoon dew point - especially in autumn. DAMHIK!
Wind is bad. Little bugs not so much so... Just leave them to dry in the undercoat (doomed!!) and sand them out! If you go picking at them you'll cause 600 times more damage than they do. Just sand them later. What a way to go! 😫
I did and do use Auto primers. These are awesome products. I've sprayed three cars to a professional finish as well as repaired a "few" dinks 😎 on my rides. They work beautifully on MDF, but each manufacturer has demanding lay-down processes and cleanup can be a bit of a bastard. With the Haymes is just water... Plus it's cheap!
ONCE all the prep is done, which is the hard part, shoot down a tack coat of oil colour, then two light wet coats allowing to flash off between and you are DONE. The colour is all rather anti-climactic as it's so quick! Shoot it down wet-edged and there is no more work!!!
I always finish with oil. It lays flat. Water based colour paints are an abomination. 😝😝
FINITO!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣😘😘😘
Ooooo yes! More!
On MDF, finish the edges with gyprock/cornice goop. I use the red can of pre-mixed from Gyprock... Use the finishing one, not the cornice adhesive. It's super smooth.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/gyprock-...inish_p0735914
Just use your finger to wipe it into the edges, let it dry and sand it lightly with a block.
PERFECT edges 😎😎😎😎😎😎
Here https://youtu.be/BUjmqdoqxL4
The guys technique is a bit ordinary, but the process is the same. See how in the centre as he works the low points and runs stand right out? You wouldn't see these by eye beforehand, but this shows them right up.
Rather than dry, I use a spray can. The LIGHTEST dust is all you need.
I like to do a second undercoat and guide so it's 100% perfect.
Ok, thanks for the replies.
There is one thing I don’t understand though.
In the previous thread you stated acrylic lacquer was your preferred finish coat
But in post no 3 above you are recommending oil based paints, presumably enamels.
Can you resolve that please?
Cheers
Arron
I did? Oh, I absolutely think that acrylic finishes are the devil itself.
Ok for artist painting and little details but not for spraying furniture, kids things and boxes.
I've a client that demands I use the Haymes water acrylics. I "DO" it, but crikey is it a right PITA. She insists on it as she paints designs on them using acrylics.
They spray horribly, they are fussy with the gun fan, too temperature dependant and impossible to achieve a high gloss finish without polish. If it's a hot day they dry to fast and crack/pull and if the dew point rises too much in the evening (and it's not completely dry) then it goes to hell.
This is just for paints.
For clear polyurethanes I've had some impressive results. I used a can of Cabot's and it was great. Took a long time to dry properly, but it was good. I also did 5 doors with it 😁
Does anyone know if this is similar to Bullseye 123?
https://www.rustoleum.com.au/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/primer-sealers/bulls-eye-1-2-3-water-base-primer/
The big green shed had a 6 litre deal, cheaper than 4 litres.
I am always looking to try different primers & sanding primers. Particularly water-based.
The Septone automotive acrylic lacquer WP mentioned in the other thread is solvent based. I would agree with him that using water based acrylic 'house' paint for furniture or non house things is just a terrible time. I have about 30L of left over paint, so having a bright idea I decided to use it on some MDF boxes. Such a bad idea. It'll spray from a gun run from a compressor, but it won't be happy doing it. And it marks quite easily. I may spray it with poly one day, or just take the lids off and redo them entirely some other day. At least they're big boxes so not under close scrutiny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arron
Bulls eye is an excellent primer and undercoat but it has no filler properties, so it can't be sanded back to level a surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by graham.murfett
Edit: I should add, can't be sanded back to a level surface if the surface wasn't level to begin with.
Thanks for the info re sanding 123
Ok, so six months after my OP I finally purchased and tried some Haynes Tricoat. Today I’ve been playing with it. This is what I’ve found.
1. It’s now called Haymes Prepcoat. Just a name change.
2. It’s as good as Woodpixel said it was.
3. It’s $69 for 4 litre, so cheap.
4. I sprayed it out of a Hvlp gun with a 2.0 setup (nozzle).
5. I didn’t have to thin it too much - I think 50/50 or less, at which ratio it is fully opaque - and disinclined to run.
6. It’s quite slow drying, which is a nuisance if you have a lot to do.
7. It levels itself out quite nicely if given a chance.
8. it has a good build.
9. It sands OK, but not nearly as effortless as say a NC sealer.
10. Looks/feels like a spraycan primer once dry.
11. Brushes nicely too.
So in conclusion a good product which I think will be my default primer and sealer from now on.
Cheers
Arron
I neglected to respond to your missive Arron.
This is exactly the post I was thinking of.
The only thing I'd add to my rants above is that I now also use Floetrol and Dyna Flo Extender. This flattens the paints and improves the drying.
I was talking with another prospective client about how to they currently paint (they are a huge kids furniture store). They have deliberately regressed somewhat as they found QC hard to maintain with spray. Their recommendation and usage was a surprise.... Let me dig up her email and copy it here. There was some good wisdom, directly from a manufacturer.
edit 1 - This is part of a long email from a potential new client and we were discussing techniques. Paint we are discussing is dulux aquanamel semi gloss, bought, incredibly, off the rack at Bunnings:
Note 2: This conversation was some months ago. I did samples using the Dulux Aquanamel semi gloss using the rollers as suggested. The end results were very good. The rollers are small and very cheap. Cheap enough that to take the time to clean and reuse them is a folly... just put them out in the sun to dry, them toss them.Quote:
It’s just been a lot of years finding the best solution of getting a really smooth finish, especially with corners on the inside and joins etc.
It’s all about the brush/roller. Because we have large services we use mini rollers. We use the Uniden mini roller.
We paint 2 coats of undercoat with these rollers: https://www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-...-pack_p1560239
And then 2-3 coats of top coat with these: https://www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-...-pack_p1660146
You can easily push the paint into the corners with these.
If you need to use lacquer, stain or a sealant, use the mohair as it gives a great finish because it doesn’t lose heaps of fibre on the lacquer: https://www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-...-pack_p1660147
After 2 coats of undercoat, we lightly sand so it’s super smooth and then paint. We get a really good finish because the rollers don’t actually hold very much paint so you are putting on layers of thin paint instead of thick layers that will give a mark.
Note 3: My undercoat of choice is still the Haymes. So much so only a fortnight ago I purchased another 10 Litres. On final paint, I'm currently using Dulux Aquanamel, sprayed, simply as Im good and quick with the gun. I thin it a bit with turps so it flows properly using a velocity cup (smooth, oily), then add the Floetrol to get it flat.
A big bottle of Floetrol is a heavy investment, but the results are 100% worth it.
BTW, I also repainted some windows with it and its excellent for door edgings, window surrounds and cupboards. I hand painted a crappy laundry cupboard with it and it looks like melamine.
Attachment 442991 Attachment 442992
Ok, so Dulux Aquanamel is your pick.
I’ll give that a go.
The only thing I don’t understand is that you thin the Aquanamel with turps rather then water. Is that correct? I’ve never thinned an acrylic paint with turps.
Thanks for your reply.
Arron
Apologies. Turps in this https://www.dulux.com.au/specifier/products/305
Water in this https://www.dulux.com.au/specifier/products/535#
With the right paint conditioner.
Remember, I only dilute for spraying to get it to flow properly. It's not hard, but it is temperature dependant.
I've used two litres of the Aquanamel so far. It is very good. BUT I am still a big fan of oil based paints, for I think/feel that they give a brighter, flatter finish. I will admit my prejudice. If you want Super Dooper finishes, there are other options (Mirotone!), but the Dulux will give you excellent results.
I'll post some samples in the morning
Thanks.
Do you use both Dynaflo and Flowtrol at the same time - or is it either/or.
Cheers
Arron
Also, go to bed.
Wife is on chemo for a nasty brain tumour. Hours are a bit... irregular... at the moment :CQuote:
Originally Posted by Arron
Dyna Flo is for latex. I've used it in Haymes oils.
Floetrol is for acrylics. Its says latex and acrylics, but I only use it for acrylics.
On a side note, Floetrol is miraculous in inexpensive acrylic paints you buy at places like Eckersleys. If you brush paint decorations/embellishments onto a painted surface you will absolutely love it.
Im not sure whats going on with Dyna Flo. I looked around the web and it's a mess. The URL is dead (getPainting.com) and the number of places that sell it seem very limited. Perhaps it has gone bust? The photos are from a recent trip to The Paint Place, where they still sell it. Perhaps I shouldn't recommend it. Good info is impossible to find. It looks hard to get.
Looking around, I saw this: paint additives guide and The Flood Company Australia » Paint Additives » introduction
The makers of Floetrol say to use Penetrol in oils. I'll grab a bottle and give it a crack (Thought I had a bottle, but apparently not!)
(BTW, I don't like latex paints, at all. It is sinfully hard to repaint properly, you cant sand the bastard stuff, is prone to bubbling, horrid to lay flat on a hot day and peels off like a giant scab. This is just a personal prejudice.)