Felling oversized trees...no probs. Little ones however...

Dumb story...

I've been helping the old man out by dropping a bunch of fire killed trees on his mate's property in Scotsburn/Clarendon. I've only got a 22" bar and most of the trunks have been 26" to over 30". Those big buggers fell without a hitch. I was even getting so cocky as to setting a small lump of wood in the direction of the fall and dropping the tree onto it.

Then I had to put down a couple of 6" thick very tall stalks...and that's where things started going wrong.

- Small scarf...back cut...it fell onto another live tall stalk (which was predicted), but somehow it got hung up in the fresh young stems. I figured it was just going to roll off it, but nooooo....
- Through cut about a foot long...kick out log...the butt bumped up and fell on the ground which left the tree still snagged.
- Through cut about 5 foot long...kick out log...same thing.
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat again, but this time the tree fell nearly 180 degrees backwards and got snagged in a fork of a different and bigger tree.
- Through cut about 5 foot long...kick out log...still snagged in the fork...the butt just swang backwards until it hit the ground
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat...and finally my nemesis lay on the ground.

9 attempts on one piddling tree!!!!


Dad was off to the side in hysterics while I was mildly fuming.

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Originally Posted by RedShirtGuy

Dumb story...

I've been helping the old man out by dropping a bunch of fire killed trees on his mate's property in Scotsburn/Clarendon. I've only got a 22" bar and most of the trunks have been 26" to over 30". Those big buggers fell without a hitch. I was even getting so cocky as to setting a small lump of wood in the direction of the fall and dropping the tree onto it.

Then I had to put down a couple of 6" thick very tall stalks...and that's where things started going wrong.

- Small scarf...back cut...it fell onto another live tall stalk (which was predicted), but somehow it got hung up in the fresh young stems. I figured it was just going to roll off it, but nooooo....
- Through cut about a foot long...kick out log...the butt bumped up and fell on the ground which left the tree still snagged.
- Through cut about 5 foot long...kick out log...same thing.
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat again, but this time the tree fell nearly 180 degrees backwards and got snagged in a fork of a different and bigger tree.
- Through cut about 5 foot long...kick out log...still snagged in the fork...the butt just swang backwards until it hit the ground
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat...and finally my nemesis lay on the ground.

9 attempts on one piddling tree!!!!


Dad was off to the side in hysterics while I was mildly fuming.

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It's good to see you supplying entertainment for the older folk in the community.

Reminds me of cutting down half a dozen 16 ft high (300 mm diameter) pencil pines for my sister.
The pines were growing in a raised garden bed along a fence line that consisted of a single brick thickness wall that was also part of the neighbours flat roofed car port.
My sisters block was empty as they had just had their old place demolished.
I was on the chainsaw and we tied two ropes about 12ft up each tree and put nephew and BIL at each end of the rope to apply some tension to pull them away from the fence line.
All went well until the last one which had a very slight lean back over the garage.
Just as the saw reached the point where you could start to hear the cracking of he hinge the nephew slipped over and he dropped his rope and the tree sprang back the other way and fell onto the roof of the garage.
Miraculously the wall stayed intact and we managed to pull it off the garage roof without any problems.

Another one was when I was trimming some long branches form one of our gum trees growing close to a side fence. The branches on our side were easy as I dropped them straight into our yard. One of the branches heading over the fence was as easy as there was nothing but 4ft high weeds in its fall path on the neighbours side. The other branch was about 3ft above and straight across the neighbours rickety 60 year old wooden shed. I found some rope and tied that branch to the trunk and to a couple of the branches above. Well of course the rope stretched and the snapped just as the branch gently came to rest across the top of the shed. The shed wobbled in a circle about 3 times but stayed upright. Fortunately the 100 year old neighbour was out at the time. A year later the centenarian move out and the house was sold to a young couple who set about tidying the back yard. One day there was an almighty crash when they went to demolish the old shed and they literally pushed on it and it folded like a house of cards. It turned out that the wall studs near the ground were eaten out by termites.

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Originally Posted by BobL

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LOL...the simplest things often turn out the worst eh? Love the collapsing shed tale :D

I heard today that the property owner where I've been cutting had a "professional" tree guy come out who refused to touch a couple of dead trees that were right next to a basic wire fence. I'm not particularly educated in felling, and have only a limited amount of experience, but I have a science/physics mind and put those two big babies down without even grazing the wires. The owner couldn't believe that I put them down so well when the pros were too scared to even think about it.

Sadly that's been my experience in my past programming career too...all of those Microsoft certified peeps (my higher ups) couldn't understand how I could write code so quickly (simple typing skills) and accurately (I knew my stuff like the back of my hand back then).

Remember that a professional is liable for damages... And that rickety old wire fence often turns into a registered antique Australian Historic Heritage Monument sort of thing hand made prior to English arrival by an extinct band of aborigines out of meteorite iron and wooly mammoth tusk where repair costs more than rebuilding a new thing of gold if it is so much as scratched. (At least according to the land owner...).. Second is permission to enter adjoining property is not often granted... And once again - the land is often protected biodiverse CITES title 1 listed habitat and will require the sawyer to spend millions of dollars on restoration in the likely event that a truck leaves a 3" divot from it's tires... (At least according to the adjoining land owner...)

As such you would find it was more a question of the price of the job, insurance, and the equipment it would require (bucket trucks, cranes, climbing crew, etc). Often a professional will decline a job rather than quoting a "ridiculous amount of money"

You on the other hand are a non-professional invited guest of the land owner... If a problem arises - legal responsibility ultimately lands upon the land owner who asked you to do the job... So if the wind blows the tree over the fence and it plows the neighbor's ute during the cut - the land owner is responsible to deal with it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedShirtGuy

I had to put down a couple of 6" thick very tall stalks...and that's where things started going wrong.

- Small scarf...back cut...it fell onto another live tall stalk (which was predicted), but somehow it got hung up in the fresh young stems. I figured it was just going to roll off it, but nooooo....
- Through cut about a foot long...kick out log...the butt bumped up and fell on the ground which left the tree still snagged.
- Through cut about 5 foot long...kick out log...same thing.
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat again, but this time the tree fell nearly 180 degrees backwards and got snagged in a fork of a different and bigger tree.
- Through cut about 5 foot long...kick out log...still snagged in the fork...the butt just swang backwards until it hit the ground
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat once more.
- Repeat...and finally my nemesis lay on the ground.

9 attempts on one piddling tree!!!!

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At least you're still alive.

what you describe is more commonly found in coroner's reports

In 10 years of dropping trees on our place I've generally had great results. Dropped trees close to a fence, no problems. Highlight was removing a gate off the hinges, and dropping a large tree into the space between the gate posts without touching the fence on either side. Unfortunately, this may have led to me getting a bit cocky.....

Fast forward 12 months. A big eucalypt had been standing dead for a few years, and the time came to drop it for firewood. Perfect firewood tree I thought; dead straight trunk going up about 40m with not a single branch, and just a few scattered dead branches right at the top of the tree. Nothing to attach a rope to, but as I had a whole paddock to drop it into on one side I thought it would be fine. How could I miss? :rolleyes: Chose a windless day, cut a textbook wedge out (aimed in the right direction), started on the back cut. Whacked in a steel wedge to stop the thing going backwards, tapping it in incrementally as I continued the back cut. No sound of splintering wood, no movement at the top of the tree. Eventually I'd cut right through, no timber left to remove, tree still sitting there perfectly balanced. No rope to pull on, nothing left to cut, now what??? Eventually the lightest gust of wind sent the thing over backwards, leaving most of the trunk suspended over a steep gully and only supported at both ends. Lots of fun and games logging it up, and the wood was fantastic firewood, but I'll never drop anything large again without getting a rope on it first. :-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedShirtGuy

Then I had to put down a couple of 6" thick very tall stalks...and that's where things started going wron

9 attempts on one piddling tree!!!!

Dad was off to the side in hysterics while I was mildly fuming.

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After several bouts with little flexible trees like this including putting one on the roof - I strap them up as high as possible with the winch on the jeep and then drag them the right direction...

Often you can also drag small trees like this back out of trouble... Strap the winch to the bottom of the log and just drag it free of the snag....

Talking about things falling the wrong way.

After 6 months of planning an preparation . . . . . . .
Demolition goes wrong as silo falls wrong way to crush Danish cultural centre - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Thanks Bob - I don't feel so silly now.:D

My neighbour had Jim's Treelopping in to cut some gums. Two fell over our fence which they mended with cable ties. I gave them a real serve and they blamed a gust of wind but it was pure incompetence, in my book. The cable ties broke after awhile. They were also incapable of mending a fence.

Kidbee - if you wanted to make a point - all you have to do is file a claim against his Home Owner's insurance.. Of course you have to have your ducks in a row... Pictures of them doing the deed, pictures of the improper fix. etc. The reality is - his tree, his workers, your fence is his problem... The reason you hire contractors with insurance is so their insurance covers their problems... If it doesn't - you, the home owner are responsible for their problems....

I would start by contacting the owner of the tree service and demand resolution... Get him out on your property. Not the lackey with a chainsaw in his hand, but the actual owner.... The owner does not want angry neighbors slathering bad press about his sloppy and incompetent workers all over the entire internet.... Jim's Tree Service dropped my neighbor's tree on my fence then left me holding the bill! This message is not good for business! Likely the chainsaw lackey never told Owner about your fence which he strapped with zip ties...

And the tree service owner needs to know this - because cowboys who hit fences invariably drop trees onto cars, power lines, and also houses... Those sorts will cost his business a fortune - not two 3m sections of wood fence and a handful of nails....

I'm pretty sure that "Jim's Treelopping" is a franchise operation. The lackey with the chain saw is the business "owner"

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Originally Posted by BobL

Talking about things falling the wrong way.

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As they say, 'the best laid plans....' or, in this case, Oops!

Alan...

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Originally Posted by ian

I'm pretty sure that "Jim's Treelopping" is a franchise operation. The lackey with the chain saw is the business "owner"

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Yes they are franchises' but with the name Jim's ... It can still damage the brand.

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Originally Posted by BobL

Talking about things falling the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Al

As they say, 'the best laid plans....' or, in this case, Oops!

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more likely "!! SH T !!"

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

In 10 years of dropping trees on our place I've generally had great results. Dropped trees close to a fence, no problems. Highlight was removing a gate off the hinges, and dropping a large tree into the space between the gate posts without touching the fence on either side. Unfortunately, this may have led to me getting a bit cocky.....

Fast forward 12 months. A big eucalypt had been standing dead for a few years, and the time came to drop it for firewood. Perfect firewood tree I thought; dead straight trunk going up about 40m with not a single branch, and just a few scattered dead branches right at the top of the tree. Nothing to attach a rope to, but as I had a whole paddock to drop it into on one side I thought it would be fine. How could I miss? :rolleyes: Chose a windless day, cut a textbook wedge out (aimed in the right direction), started on the back cut. Whacked in a steel wedge to stop the thing going backwards, tapping it in incrementally as I continued the back cut. No sound of splintering wood, no movement at the top of the tree. Eventually I'd cut right through, no timber left to remove, tree still sitting there perfectly balanced. No rope to pull on, nothing left to cut, now what??? Eventually the lightest gust of wind sent the thing over backwards, leaving most of the trunk suspended over a steep gully and only supported at both ends. Lots of fun and games logging it up, and the wood was fantastic firewood, but I'll never drop anything large again without getting a rope on it first. :-

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Mr Brush

If there is ever any doubt about, even the slightest doubt, which way a tree will fall I use timber wedges: As many as will fit in the felling cut if necessary. Additional wedges can be placed if you see the tree bearing down on the wedges (if it is going the right way the wedges will go loose). Thicker wedges can then be hammered in to send the tree back the way you want. You do need to have remembered to bring your sledge hammer too. The other advantage of the timber wedge is that they are sacrificial and won't destroy the chain on your saw. Commercially you can buy plastic wedges for the same purpose. Most times I cut them from small branches in the bush with the chainsaw when I arrive. They certainly don't have to be a sophisticated bit of gear, but they can save your saw or your life or both :) .

Regards
Paul

Usually when dropping some large Pines & Jarrah I have here I hook up a come-a-long with wire rope anchored to another tree as well as ramming a few wedges in to ensure the drop in the direction it is meant to go.
The professional guys use a sling shot to haul up a cable to do this as well.I just took a leaf ( pardon the pun) out of their tactics ,it's safe and works ,well for me it has without issue.

How high up do you need to get the wire rope?

As high as you can. ;) ;).

Obviously 1.5m up the tree won't be much help - but even 5m can make a huge difference... I generally tie a good size rock or heavy branch chunk onto a long, smooth rope and pitch it up as high as I can... Then - use the rope to fish my winch cable up....

just remember the effects of angle as taught in Highschool Geometry class... Aka - make sure your cable is long enough to allow your ute backed up far enough so the tree doesn't rearrange your hood and windshield... ;) I would consider a cable length about double the height of the tree to be about the bare minimum...

On the tree service blokes....

You would be amazed at how many times none of the fellows cutting trees are the owner... Remember - the owner is the money guy who owns all the trucks, saws, chippers, skid steers, etc.... Often the young chap running up and down the tree with a saw is hired help... Young guys have the advantages of strong legs, strong backs, and a fine invinciblity complex....

Oldie but a goodie
https://youtu.be/iQFetadBQgM

well, he did get it down :U


and it was partly loaded onto the ute !!

Bob

I had seen the video before, but I guess that says it all. What were they thinking? Oh, hang on, they weren't thinking at all :rolleyes: .

Regards
Paul

Reminds me of the sightly built Sub-continental family who turned up at the next door neighbours to take away a healthy 12ft high Mango tree. They turned up with 3 cars (the largest was a small Datsun Ute) and about 10 people (mostly kids) and proceeded to excavate around the tree. I was watching some of this from the living room window and wondering how they were going to lift the rootball onto the ute. Anyway they tried a few things but even with the help of a fit neighbour they could not move it.

I went and got my 20 something year old son and a couple of 10ft long 2 x 4's and some decent rope and asked if they needed a hand. With the 2x4's padded and tied under the first large branch unions we managed to get the tree onto the ute standing up. They then proceed to tie it down to the roof with what looked like binding twine and when I suggested they use some of my rope they politely declined.

I put the rope in my car and waited till they took off and followed them. At the end of street about 40 m away at the first stop sign the twine broke and the tree toppled forward covering the windscreen wth its canopy. I stopped and helped them straighten the tree and again offered the rope and again the politely declined and used two thicknesses of twine.

At next stop sign the twine broke and I drove up alongside and held out the rope - no luck again.

They left the tree leaning with its canopy over the windscreen and tore away a few of the leaves so the driver could see something. Then they tied the tree to the Ute tray rack behind the cab, again with lots of twine, and put two kids in the back of the ute under the trunk to hang onto and hold the tree down onto the ute rack.

Off they went again and made it onto the freeway. At about 60 kph the branches and leaves were flapping about so that again they intermittently covered the windscreen so the driver had to stick his head out of the side window to see. Meanwhile the tree with the two kids attached is bouncing up and down in the back of the ute. Eventually they got it up to about 70 when leaves and branches started to snap off at least enabling the driver to see. At about 80 kph about half the leaves had been stripped off - we decided to drive no further and turned around at the next exit.

The family were supposed to come back for another tree but then never did.

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Bob

I had seen the video before, but I guess that says it all. What were they thinking? Oh, hang on, they weren't thinking at all :rolleyes: .

Regards
Paul

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what I like is how the watchers move well clear of the ute and tree but don't think to warn the ute driver

Nothing wrong. :D Tree loaded into the ute. Looks pretty square as well. Pity it is heavier than the cab and springs can handle though and did you notice how close the front of the ute is to the fence.

There is always next time to do a better job.

Longer rope - pffffttttt. This one is plenty long...

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Originally Posted by Handyjack

Yes they are franchises' but with the name Jim's ... It can still damage the brand.

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My neighbour used one of these clowns years ago to trim a tree growing half over my fence.
He was hanging off a wobbly ladder cutting small branches with a chainsaw.
I knocked a few off with machete and then loaned it to him as he’d never seen one before.
In the end I had to back out his new 4 x 4 ute and trailer as he or the neighbour had no idea.
H.

Ah, the Sacrificial Datsun....Nissan's answer to the Painter's drop sheet.
So cynical gentlemen. Obviously this is only stage one, all is in order, vehicle now acts as under carriage to facilitate loading onto a winch equipped tilt tray truck. Simples.

I can just see the advert, for sale, cheap modified ute, only used to carry one tree. :D