IMHO as an O/B the answer is a definite no but interested to hear from others
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IMHO as an O/B the answer is a definite no but interested to hear from others
Presently undergoing major renos to this place... new floors new kitchen bathroom laundry toilet and sundry other areas... what I was quoted for a builder to do the same work Ive done would have so far cost over $10000 its cost me only $3000... sourcing the timbers doing the work myself has saved us shyteloads! literally :cool: The 10000 is only for the part of the work Ive already done not including the work to come! all up quote was $28000 I estimate I will get away at less than $10000
Time is where the owner builder or renovator runs into strife... ie everything grinds to a blithering halt when I buggar off back to the mine next week for two weeks very little will get done... till I get back then a week of utter madness tryin to get stuff done and finished before I go again... if I was working down here it wouldnt be a heck of a lot different since Id be working till dark or near on get home stuffed from the days work and only get perhaps a couple of hours done before hitting the sack and starting all over
Time I think has to be the worst enemy... and motivation!! the actual act of getting started on something instead of just humming and haaing dithering and thinking...
Money can be saved by doing as much as you can yourself and sourcing materials and stuff from sources here and there but if you go to the big boys shops the major appliance stores and the better end of town for everything which you can get through other means at a lot less price if you look and are prepared to drive to get whatever it is...
I've worked with quite a few owner-builders and I'd definitely say the answer is no. They don't save money... but they do get better value for the same money. Those who ended up under the estimated budget ended up ploughing that money back into the house anyway; I guess building became a type of addiction... :D
Provided they had the sense to consult with others along the way and hire tradies for what is honestly beyond their ability.
Mainly 'cos they didn't cut corners. The money they've saved by DIY was spent on better materials and often better methods of construction than if they'd hired tradies. And those who hired tradies for the jobs beyond their own skills (plastering, plumbing, etc.) have usually been on-site and getting involved there too. Sometimes just to keep an eye on the tradies, sometimes cutting costs by being lackeys for the day.
A greenie for you skew chidam.......very well said.
As long as you are organised and researched
This one does but only because a very large part of the labour is being done by myself, my Dad (plumber) and my Uncle (bricky), all of whom are working for free. We are paying a sparky and a chippy part time and another full time chippy, who is another Uncle and, although not doing it for free, is doing it very cheap. My Uncle and I will do the fix out and I will build the kitchens.
On materials, we have been able to get a good discount on most items by using a friend who is a builder to purchase through. I also get 10% at the local hardware store. We have picked up some cheap items that were left over from another job.
We have tried to be restrained in what we buy. Not buying the best of everything, spending the money where it counts most. Eg. we can save hundreds by not buying HPM powerpoints and light switches.
We priced a kit home and then obtained quotes (through our builder friend) for locally sourced wall frames, trusses, roofing, windows. It came in just under half the cost of the same thing from the kit home provider. The kit home lockup price was about 3/4 what a local builder estimated it would cost. Factor in the labour and trades and the kit home option ends up being the most expensive.
Yes, I believe we will save money.
Yes
But only if they are astute and properly budget and organize the whole process AND avoid changing their original plans on the fly.
The missing question should be
Do they save as much as they originally thought they would save?
NO
Although there can be occasions when you DO save money if you do this. Trivial example but I originally planned to build the party wall (dual occupancy) as a 60-60-60 timber frame wall but last night after talking to another builder mate, he convinced me that if we build it in double brick instead, it will be cheaper.Quote:
avoid changing their original plans on the fly
I saved heaps, however depends on what you can do yourself, I built my kitchen out of Jarah for under 5k, built a double garage w/board, pitched roof, roller door for around $6k, built the decking and verandah, cheap...but the biggest problem for an owner builder, or should I say in my case, I never finish the job...got to go back and finish all these projects...one day.
I know I would save a bit of cash not because I have skills (I hope) but because I know what I need is more important than what I want. Owner builders can make money or save it (which in my eyes is making it) but they have to be flexible!
In what why you might ask; if you need laminate and you know what you want and you head down to your local supplier and they have a sale on a discontinued brand, if it workers with the rest of what you have planned it’s all good. You need a couple of doors why buy new if they don’t need to be new, cause you’re going to paint them anyway, you can get great gutters from demolishing house sales, pavers, bricks and fittings. The floor boards out of this sale are used for cabinetmaking (the rustic look) but you have to get there early because smart operators dive on these opportunities. All you have to do is look for it, because it’s out there. (One mans rubbish is others mans gold!)
If you’re an owner builder and your plans for building or renovating are set in stone, I believe you’ll be dragging the stone around with you like a ball and chain!
If you read your post carefully, you are saying definitely yes. The question is 'did you save' not 'did you come under budget'. You must compare apples with apples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!
BTW I agree with everything youre saying otherwise.
I answered yes because I only paid out $350 in outside labour on a 20 square house and in many instances bought at better than builders rates because of the contacts that I had in the building trade.
Because I contracted on building sites, on the trades that I wasn't sure of I used to seek out those tradesmen and bleed their brains. If you ask nicely a tradesman will talk for hours on how good they are and how to do things critical to their trade. You have to become a people person.
I believe my house had many more things done that a builder would not have done or if he had I would not have been able to afford them.
I did a lot of research and bought a lot of materials from Geoff K Gray auctions who used to sell a lot of new building materials at very good prices. I bought all my windows and sliding glass doors, all my PC items my kitchen. All these were a fraction of what the retail price was.
When I built the house I was saving money because I was living on the property in the garage rent free.
I don't believe there would be the savings that I made if you are going to be just an ownerbuilder supervisor on the building site as lot of others have said tradesmen will not price jobs the same for an owner builder as a builder.
I just think there are to many variables to say straight out you will save money. The other thing is there have been some incredidible changes in the laws and what you can do on a site without a licence for a particular trade since I built my house 20 years ago.
When I did my place I was 55 klms from the nearest town and the only stipulation from the council was that I had to use a licenced drainer to do the septic system and thats what I paid the $350 for. All hed did was lay and glue up the pipes. I had dug all the trenches and the hole for the septic tank and had it installed in place. I also dug the absorbtion trenches.
Because I wasn't connected to town water I was able to do all the plumbing. I had spent 5 years doing electrical work with a mate who was an electrical contractor who signed the ready for test. I have 5 power circuits and over 70 power points in the house alone with out the shed. Think what an electrician would charge for that.
Anyway thats my two cents worth.
I think the answer USED to be yes, provided you helped with the labouring when using contractors and had an idea what you were doing. Certainly from my personal experience, it has been. 2 x new houses, 5 x renovations.
I'm pretty sure the current answer is no, except for minor renovations etc.
As I understand it, if the value of the job is over $20K (may be a bit out here) then the owner builder has to take out some sort of 10 year warranty insurance on the work. The Insurance companies won't issue this cover, or charge an exhorbitently high price, which makes it cheaper to get a builder.
This may be just our own, abysmal, Council or more general across the State.
Another nail in the coffin for any type of non-conformity, self determination or independence.
Its called Home Warranty Insurance and it is relatively straightforward to obtain, costs around $1000. This is to insure against the quality of the construction and is not required if the house is not going to be sold in six years. And as is the case with us, we are not taking out the Home Warranty Insurance but if we decide to sell in under six years we can take out an apportioned amount of the insurance depending on what balance of the six years is remaining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodgy
A builder's warranty is 10 years but an owner builder's is 6 years.
Builders must back their warranty with sufficient assets, or else their insurance company will not provide insurance.
Owner builders can get home owner warranty insurance very easily. I think it cost us $1,400 + an inspection for our last one. There are only a small number of providers but they will happily take your money. This insurance does not cover you, it covers the new owner. You take it out on their behalf. If the house falls down, the insurance company will chase YOU for the money to fix it.
BTW the 6 years is calculated from the date of the council's certificate of occupation, not from when you move the furniture in. I know some people who still don't have a final after several years. When/if they come to sell the house, they will have to get a final and provide this warranty insurance, even though they completed the renovations years before. A few years ago it was 5 years, now it is 6, soon it will be 10. It is retrospective, so if you are in this position, get the final inspection NOW.
A builder can only do work to the value of their warranty insurance in a calendar year, because the insurance company will not allow them extend their exposure beyond this.
You will see a developing trend of builders offering to build houses or do renovations under the owner's owner builder permit. It's already happening now. The builder still has to warrant his work, but only the work HE does because the trades and other contractors will have their own contract with the owner builder. It shifts the responsibility from the builder to the owner builder.
Tradies are going to have to get used to owner builders because it is the way of things to come. The ones who don't will become redundant eventually. It is all part of the great plan of shifting responsibility for everything onto the individual. A good time to take up a career in a consulting field because there will be lots of people floundering around not knowing what they need to do.
The stuff you learn here!
I've obviously been mis-informed. I was given the original info by an architect friend. $1-2K is not a lot, but wouldn't the cost of the insurane be $$ pro rated on the value of the project?
Silent, if its not intrusive may I ask the value of your work the $1400 applied to? I see you are in NSW, somewhere near ?Nimmitabel, by your co-ordinates. Is the relevant legislation local, state or Federal?
I think this is the best news I've had today and would change my vote on saving $$ by DIY to yes.
I should have added a couple of caveats to that. It was about 4 years ago in Sydney and it was only a reno, which was something like $40,000 (even though it didn't cost that much but that was what the council estimated it at for the purpose of fees :rolleyes: ) It might turn out to be a lot more than that for a whole house. My point is that it wasn't hard to get and it wasn't that expensive as a percentage of the cost of building.
However, if you don't plan to sell the place in a hurry, it's not even a consideration. We just factored it in to the price we got for the house. The only down side is that we have it hanging over our heads until the warranty runs out.
Does an owner builder save money? Would be NO.
Can an owner builder save money? Yes
If you have a few tools, some building skills and time then you could save some money for an equivalent job.
must admit I thought this poll would have created more interest .
How would it all work out for an OB building a kit set in a remote location. :confused:
(60K to nearest reasonable sized town.)
ps: sorry for a bit of a hijack.
I think the subject has been.... Ummm, maybe, exhausted?Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_rine
Next? :D