Interesting story on ABC website.
DIY injuries on rise amid home renovation TV boom, Brisbane doctors say - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Interesting story on ABC website.
DIY injuries on rise amid home renovation TV boom, Brisbane doctors say - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Just saw that myself. Thought it a bit unusual they mentioned the accident but not how it could have been prevented or if the user was doing something dangerous.
Given the stuff I've seen trained people do, I wouldn't at all be surprised if many of these accidents involve user error in some way (either intentionally or not)
It is important to know which way the timber will fly when something goes wrong. Things just happen, timber can explode on spindle moulders and router tables and bandsaws etc. If you have no experience, it is very likely you are pushing your hands towards a cutter because you are trying to put too much pressure on the fence or some other inexperienced white knuckle thing. When the timber explodes, your hands shoot straight in towards the cutter. You can't read this stuff inside instruction manuals.
Don't believe me, have a look at this. It's actually quite an entertaining video. So many things go wrong. I found it quite funny. But anyways, I set the video to start at "exploding timber on router table" time.
https://youtu.be/A_xEbiZuxgo?t=2m12s
That video guy is a clown. He is bloody dangerous and incredibly wasteful.
What is wrong with that guy. I felt like I was watching the video on 2x speed the whole time, he works his tools so damned hard. Overconfidence/stupidity or both?
"Up until now studies into these kinds of injuries have only looked at hospital admissions, rather than visits to emergency, where an estimated 75 per cent of patients actually end up.
"So we believe we have missed a significant number," Dr Eley said."
They have also missed the very significant number of injuries treated in GP's rooms, significant lacerations, dislocations, bruising, contusions etc that don't require a visit to ED.
The truth is that nobody has a good idea of the numbers, frequency, types, or mechanisms of injury to hobby wood workers or DIYers. There has been various research projects in SA, VIC and QLD into DIY and hobby injuries, most of it quite dated now and well prior to the ready availability of cheap tooling.
The other thing is that only deaths in ED or hospital make it into the research statistics, because the stats are collected in hospital. On scene deaths from hobby accidents don't reach hospital, but may be reported in the media.
This is not correct. The major DIY studies done by Monash Uni in the 1990's comprehensively covered all ED visits in Vic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobyturns
This is correct. There are are also many minor injuries and near misses that go unreported which would provide useful info.Quote:
They have also missed the very significant number of injuries treated in GP's rooms, significant lacerations, dislocations, bruising, contusions etc that don't require a visit to ED.
I agree. the last Monash DIY injury and death study is now nearly 20 years old and although still useful it needs updating.Quote:
The truth is that nobody has a good idea of the numbers, frequency, types, or mechanisms of injury to hobby wood workers or DIYers. There has been various research projects in SA, VIC and QLD into DIY and hobby injuries, most of it quite dated now and well prior to the ready availability of cheap tooling.
The Monash Research centre reports cover ALL deaths in Vic.Quote:
The other thing is that only deaths in ED or hospital make it into the research statistics, because the stats are collected in hospital. On scene deaths from hobby accidents don't reach hospital, but may be reported in the media.
Monash have a more recent (2103) 32 page general report on "Injury related deaths and Injury patterns in Vic" including admissions to ED and hospitals.
see https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets...8492/haz76.pdf
DIY deaths and injuries are too small to rate a single mention in this report, and the search term "wood working" shows up once, under injuries in the paper making trade.
The closest the report comes to DIY related injuries and deaths is under the category of "home" where falls, intentional self harm and burns dominate the stats
The reality is that it is very difficult to get funding for DIY injury research compared to the numbers of injuries and deaths in other areas like; falls, which caused 29% of all injury related deaths, self inflicted injuries (25%), transport (16%) and poisoning (10%).
The report lists the following as priorities - note how "falls" appears in 5 of the categories.
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Attachment 402641
I'm not surprised, too many people don't realise how dangerous machinery and tools can be.
I've had to sort through the dust extractor a few times to find workmates cut fingers on the panel saw, and one of those guys were a trained saw machinist.
Im not sure if TAFE/Tech still show the injury photos in your first block of apprentice training,
At the time, i felt the photos of injuries form machinery and workplace accidents were over the top, we even had a few people get sick, i struggled to watch the slides, but it was a wake up call to take care.
I can just imagine someone DIY'er buying a hand held router/Planner and getting into trouble.
I was shown all sorts of gross videos during my apprenticeship 1999-2002. Pigs tails being used to demonstrate the difference between spindle moulder safety heads with chip limiters and not so safety heads without chip limiters. The difference was a few shavings off the pigs tails compared with the pigs tail being ripped apart about 2" shorter.
That made my botty wink!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuffy
Sound like they tamed it down in Victoria, i would be surprised if what we viewed is know classed as disturbing material.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuffy
I did my apprenticeship up here in QLD 1995-99 and the slides/photo were made up of real people from cabinetmaking injury accidents, it was awful seeing people dead from bench grinder discs that had exploded into there faces. hands and heads that had be scalped from drills and other presses, the list goes on.
It was really really sicking, but it got the point across.. All machines are dangerous if not respected...
There was a picture in the office where we handed our timesheets etc. It was the aftermath of an apprentice nailing himself to the floor. His boot and sock haf been cut away around the nail with the head still protruding thru the top of the boot and a chunk of floor stuck to the bottom of his boot
There were other pics and storries at trade school.
Ive been lucky. Other than seeing a guy shoot a nail thru his finger I've never seen a competent person do a serious injury on the job.
That said I did see an incompetent brickie using a 9" grinder without a guard. I told him he should not be using it like that and not 60 seconds later saw him cut thru his wrist and one bone.
Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art
While not a DIY accident, in the last week I have seen and commented to people at work about looking at their mobile phones while walking down stairs. No, none of them have fallen but the risk is there.
I should perhaps mention that I work in a hospital. We want discharges, not admissions.
There should be a law that is someone walks into you and they are looking at there phone that you can put them in hospital...Quote:
Originally Posted by Handyjack
people looking at their phones while walking is becoming a huge problem.
What would you give someone that is texting while driving and totals your vehicle leaving you without a vehicle for 6 weeks?Quote:
Originally Posted by bryn23
I was OK - he also totalled his car and broke his collarbone, he was not insured and (tried to) take out insurance the day after the accident.
You wouldn't want to know...Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
Glad to hear you are ok, i hope the insurance company goes after him for fraud.
I don't have time for people that are careless and put others at risk, you only have one body.
The thing that really me off was the prang happened on the day I had just had a major service ($450) and a front wheel alignment , and two days later I was due 2 weeks holiday and was going away with the vehicle. Instead I took a couple of days of to sort out the prang and remove the accessories from the vehicle before it was scrapped and went back to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by bryn23
BTW The other driver also had a couple of kids in the back seat of his vehicle.
Just saw the Channel 10 Project story on the topic of this thread.
In the usual 30s they give to such stories they focused on "instructions" and PPE was not even mentioned.
BobL, Dr Eley's comments would be true for the QLD QISU research which is also very dated now. Even in the USA the wood lathe injuries aren't captured all that well. In Oz I suspect a lot of workshop injuries are placed into "other" categories or classified as slips. trips, falls etc.
A work colleagues wife was a statistician with QLD Health but budget cuts decimated their work group. However a mate who is an theatre technician in ortho says they see a number of severe hand injuries per week from DIY stuff, mainly grinders, power saws & routers.
I always think about the guy trudging over to the "Days Worked Since Last Accident" board, wiping it off, and writing up a bit fat "0".....
Perhaps we need one for the forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Brush
Front page, at top. A safety advice sticky and "how to's" provided by members on each machine safest use (with pictures on NON safe use!)
Self reported, but constant, showing that accidents are both avoidable, common and happen... even to wizened grouches who should know better ;)
Perhaps I can write to the hospital and see if they might contribute :)
Christ - with the number of members we have on the forum, the (virtual) chalk dust wouldn't have time to reach the ground.....:D
Love the idea though :2tsup:
I dunno, something doesn't sit well with me learning how to do things safely by reading instructions/forums/blogs or watching videos. For starters it will be an argument as to which is the safest way. A simple example
"when ripping material on a table saw, you should raise the blade as high as it can go".
This makes sobering readingQuote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
WWA Accident Survey
Like all Statistics they have to be considered very carefully.
For example table saw come up tops in terms of numbers of accident but this does not take into account the numbers of users and how long they use them for.
For example table saws are up near the top in terms of numbers of accidents
BUT
per user, per hour of use, they are one of the machines with the lowest accident rate.
RAS and BS have a significantly higher accident rate.
Cheers Bob. Just read old few of those for the machines I currently own and definitely some eye opening moments. I've always had a very healthy fear of machinery but there were a number of accidents there that would have caught me out as well.
There are really a number of issues at work here.
"Reality" TV programs which give the impression that anyone can renovate or build and even complete work to a high, safe standard without expertise or supervision using tools which most have never seen or been instructed how to use and be able to complete any task in impossible timeframes, weather and all this while the "contestants" are overly tired and stressed.
The "quality" of the tools and accessories promoted as being DIY specific as opposed to trade quality. I fully understand that some of the so called prestige brands command premium prices difficult to justify but surely blind Freddy must realise that there will be a difference between paying $50 for 1 router bit or $100 for a box of drills and going to a box store and paying $15 for a set of 12 router bits or $25 for a box of drills. You can't expect precision, longevity and a quality product using tools or accessories which are designed to a minimum price.
Instruction manuals today absolutely astound me. In many cases they are poorly written, what is often referred to as Chinglish, they try to cover 5+ different languages, are full of basic backside covering statements, avoid telling how to use or maintain the machinery and are of little to no use.
This brings about, perhaps the most dangerous aspect which is the attitude of the user. The attitude of "she'll be right, near enough is good enough, when in doubt read the instructions, I've seen it on uTube so therefore I can do it" all contribute to the shedding of blood. There is a failure to examine or predict what could happen if you do XY or Z, we all need to think before we do.
Just some thoughts.
Another serious issue is PPE.
Only 10% of all DIY'ers attending Vic EDs in the 1990's study OF DIY injuries were wear ANY PPE, let alone the specific PPE for the job e.g. might be wearing steel caps, but no eye protection, while using a grinder.
Many DIY injuries also occur during incidents where PPE is not normally used, e.g. ladders, scissors, box cutters, knives, screwdrivers, etc.
Steel capped boots would prevent many DIY foot related injuries but can we really expect a DIY to have these on hand?
For example I wonder how many wood turners would wear them?
RE Instructions
I agree while they are getting better some instructions are very poorly written.
I would like to see more hard nose instructions like these on the cover page of the manual for the bigger Stihl chain saws.
Quote:
Warning!
This saw is capabale of severe kickbackwhich may cause serious or fatal injury.
This saw is ONLY for users with extraordinary cutting needs, experience, and training dealing with kickback.
Smaller chainsaws with significantly reduced kickbackpotential are available.
Very true, but you notice that the DIY projects shown on TV are often accompanied by poor technique on behalf of the presenter. I saw a a segment on BHG recently where the presenter who is supposedly a qualified chippie was using a chisel in a manner that left me dumbstruck, and wondering what happened to apprenticeship training. I have no doubt that an inexperienced person could injure themselves copying the technique displayed on TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
This lack of good technique being displayed extends to how difficult it can be to get proper training. I spent Christmas Day next door to a retired surgeon who has a workshop like you wouldn't believe. Being a smart man he wanted to learn machining properly so went to tech one night every week and took his two sons with him to train as a fitter/turner. That's something you can't really do now because trade courses at TAFE are restricted to apprentices and even if they'd let you in no DIYer would spend the 30 grand the full fees for the courses are set at now.
And even lesser affordable courses such as cert 1 or 2 which would give basic skills and safe handling of tools aren't being run because budget cuts restrict teacher availability. Men's sheds could step up here, but many don't have enough skilled people to provide the instruction or are quite insular like a number in my area, comfortable with what they are doing and not seeking to do anything different. Those that are willing are still restricted - my 80yo father teaches woodworking to primary students at his men's shed in qld, but as the kids aren't allowed to use anything sharp they aren't learning safe handling of tools like chisels let alone a table saw.
I agree about this. I did quite a few short and night school courses in the 1970s that were not expensive and extremely useful. Its a shame these are not around now.Quote:
Originally Posted by richmond68
Can't speak for other mens shed but we have plenty of qualified and skilled people at our shed, not just in woodwork but also in metal work.Quote:
Men's sheds could step up here, but many don't have enough skilled people to provide the instruction or are quite insular like a number in my area, comfortable with what they are doing and not seeking to do anything different. Those that are willing are still restricted - my 80yo father teaches woodworking to primary students at his men's shed in qld, but as the kids aren't allowed to use anything sharp they aren't learning safe handling of tools like chisels let alone a table saw.
This year we had a couple of younger blokes join the shed specifically to to learn welding (at cost), and some primary school kids next door to the shed came over for 4 sessions this year and we are looking to increase that next year.
I'm not involved with any of this (see below why) but I did observe kids using hand planes and saws (but no chisels) using all the right PPE.
Although its better than nothing, unfortunately I don't always see being qualified/skilled/experienced as being anywhere near as OHS aware as I would like especially for todays litigious environment.
Even if Shed OHS was up to scratch I don't see OHS training to the wider public as high priority role for mens sheds, the primary role of which is the mental health of their members.
It sounds like I'm being selfish, but after starting out with good intentions, I found my mental health suffering when dealing with just dealing with shed OHS issues and is why I have disconnected myself from shed management.
There are still some short courses available, I've been looking at doing some of the welding and machining classes at Polytechnic West over the last few months. Probably varies from state to state though.
That's why I don't watch them. They could easily be categorized as "comedy" or "parody" rather than "reality" TV. Same goes for many of the 4WD shows. At least Russell Coight gets it as right as they do and makes no claim to being an expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by richmond68
It's been interesting to watch two "20 something" friends of ours go through some self discovery wood working.
Neither of them had done much or any before but both had a reasonable sense of taste and were not prepared to accept that 3 pieces of MDF tek screwed together represents quality wood working and longevity.
They both ended up purchasing some old weather worn timber slabs from me and discovered "Real wood grain" and started out using cheap power tools and quickly realised were not going to cut the mustard.
I gave them a few tips and loaned them a few tools which resulted in a string of SMS messages asking how to solve this and that problem and eventually proudly showing off their efforts at extracting the grain from the wood.
One of these young blokes lives close by and had to work in their drive way due to space restrictions and every time I went past I was pleased to see him using all the necessary PPE
Both of them have put a lot of time into their projects and now seem to have got the wood bug and have since asked me lots of questions.
TAFE got rid of its ACE short course up here in QLD a while back. It was cheap and for everyone.
It was a shame as they had cheap courses covering most of the trade basics (panel beating, car painting, upholstery eta). people tend to learn quick from being taught by a skilled teacher than giving a go, without knowing the safety pitfalls
Although you got no real certificates, you got knowledge, and it was cheap.
Not much of that left now, mostly private now,
Ive booked myself in to a SKILLTECH TAFE Welding course modules, just the basic Arc, Mig and Tig over 6 weeks.
Not as cheap as ACE, but i'll rather learn Mig and Tig than learn bad habits and work safety as i go along.