Polished concrete or floating floor?

Hi all.
After some advice on flooring options for my new house (not built yet). We are building on 8 acres so there will be lots of wear and tear from the 5 kids and 2 dogs running in and out with buckets of sand, mud, sticks etc. following I'm sure! It will be on a conrete slab (possibly a waffle pad? Anyone know anything about these? Good or a problem?) There are 3 options I am considering....
1. Polished concrete- generally I like the look but occaisionally wonder whether it would be too cold, clinical looking? Is it possible to polish a waffle pad (I believe it has polystyrene blocks in the concrete)? How slippery are these floors when wet? Anyone have any ideas on cost?
2. Floating floor- Love the look. Concerned how well it will hold up under the onslaught. Are the laminates fairly sturdy? How about the veneers? Is either more durable than the other? I understand the veneers are sandable but I really don't want to be doing it every year or two! There'd be no timber left in just a few years.
3. Tiles- least favourite option but generally the most affordable.

Anyone have any other brilliant ideas? Thanks in advance for any and all replies.
-mrsxtro

With that sort of treatment, forget floating floors. You'll be ripping it up again in not time, particularly the thin veneer stuff. You could put solid timber down but it will be more expensive. At least you can sand it and polish it again when required but with that sort of treatment it will look pretty crappy in no time so i don't see the point in doing it.

Sounds to me like tiles are the go. Maybe terra-cotta, not ceramic.

G'day.
5 options for timber flooring.

1. 19mm Solid wood T&G timber flooring fixed by direct stick to the slab.

2. 12mm solid wood overlay T&G flooring fixed by direct stick to the slab.

3. Solid wood 260x65x14mm block parquetry fixed by direct stick to the slab.

4. 19mm Solid wood T&G secret nailed timber flooring fixed by glue & secret nailing to hardwood battens fixed to the slab @ 400mm centres.

5. 19mm Solid wood T&G secret nailed timber flooring fixed by glue & secret nailing to plywood sheets that are fixed to the slab.

Checkout www.timberqueensland.com.au for their new flooring data sheets.

Thay are soon releasing a DVD on floor installation practices.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

Gaza...any suggestions to add to the above?

Looked into waffle pads. The polystyrene blocks are under the slab. They are just there to form up the beams. You start with a level site, lay the blocks down, box up the edges and pour the cement. It's an alternative to digging footings. There might be some insulative properties as well, not sure on that.

Main problem is finding someone who knows how to do it. Someone down here tried it but because the concretor had never done one before, it took him longer and so it cost more than a standard raft or suspended slab.

At my place, we are putting in a suspended slab. Will probably put some industrial carpet in the high traffic areas and timber floor in the rest.

Two problems with tiles: the grout will look filthy after a few weeks of kids + dirt - use a dark colour grout if you go that way; also cold on the feet in winter! Buy some slippers... ;)

You might like to check out TERAZZO.

Effectively polished concrete with a bit of flair to it.....looks very good if laid properly and is pretty high wearing.
One other suggestion is to lay nomad mats outside all doorways.....these are the ones that most shopping centres use and can simply be hosed out unlike carpeted ones.
Decent mats will effectively trap up 75% of all inbound dirt.

If you're worried about Tiles or concrete becoming cold, why don't you look at the sub-floor heating units you can get. My brother got them under his tiles and they are fabulous. It is a nice warmth as well.

Ahhh, somebody on my wavelength. Mrsxtro, like you I am building a new house - a 2 storey house, as an owner builder, on a concrete slab. I think polished concrete is fantastic and floating floors are not far behind. For your situation, kids, dogs etc, polished concrete would be perfect.
Rather than bore you with the details, I suggest you have a look at this site:
www.htc-sweden.com/en/
Not an easy site to navigate but please persevere. Look for the HTC Superfloor section.
I intend to polish the whole slab before I start the framing - bedrooms, bathroom, living area and laundry are all polished concrete. With plenty of large north facing windows I am hoping it will be a huge heat sink.
I have done a fairly thorough cost investigation. To have it polished professionally costs about $140/sq.m. This is not to be confused with exposed aggregate and a polyurethane coating which costs about $70/sq.m. To do it yourself costs considerably less, but is time consuming. The machine, with dust extractor costs $200/day and the various polishing heads set you back about $3500. Supposedly the heads are good for about 1000 sq.m. so I don't know whether they have any resale value. I'm doing a 130 sq.m. slab and expect to take about a week to do it. My cost estimate is around $6000 which equates to $46 /sq.m. I reckon that is pretty cheap for a fantastic (hopefully) floor that requires practically no maintenance.

As for floating floors, a good floating floor with a 6mm veneer and a wearing surface that is almost indestructable will set you back around $90-120/sq.m. laying it yourself, which is very easy. The days of solid timber floors are over. All that mucking around with nail punching, filling, sanding, dust, take off the high heels etc are history. Needless to say, in my case the whole upper story will be floating timber flooring (excluding wet areas). Besides, if SWMBO tells you to bugger off you can pack the floor up and take it with you, under the cover of darkness of course.

Go polished concrete and floating floors!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Metung

...............The days of solid timber floors are over.............

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I doubt that very much

Mick

Waffle slabs tend to use the foam blocks instead of packing sand you will still have a concrete surface you can polish. The foam would provide some insulation not unlike an esky, but I don't know how effective that is with the concrete mass over it. We have used them in a suspended slab on a second floor and then removed the things afterwards it was a simple way to produce the reinforcing piers. The foam was then resold to someone who probably knew what they where doing on a ground poured slab. In any case I find polished concrete a bit clinical and would prefer the look of tiles if I had the choice of either.

JohnC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrsxtro

Hi all.
After some advice on flooring options for my new house (not built yet). We are building on 8 acres so there will be lots of wear and tear from the 5 kids and 2 dogs running in and out with buckets of sand, mud, sticks etc. following I'm sure! It will be on a conrete slab (possibly a waffle pad? Anyone know anything about these? Good or a problem?) There are 3 options I am considering....
1. Polished concrete- generally I like the look but occaisionally wonder whether it would be too cold, clinical looking? Is it possible to polish a waffle pad (I believe it has polystyrene blocks in the concrete)? How slippery are these floors when wet? Anyone have any ideas on cost?
2. Floating floor- Love the look. Concerned how well it will hold up under the onslaught. Are the laminates fairly sturdy? How about the veneers? Is either more durable than the other? I understand the veneers are sandable but I really don't want to be doing it every year or two! There'd be no timber left in just a few years.
3. Tiles- least favourite option but generally the most affordable.

Anyone have any other brilliant ideas? Thanks in advance for any and all replies.
-mrsxtro

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Strand woven bamboo janka rating of 15.3 direct stick. thats the go

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Originally Posted by Metung

The days of solid timber floors are over.

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Ummm... Not according to our sales figures.;)

We are producing 40% more 80x19 T&G endmatched solid timber flooring from Australian hardwood than we did last year and still cannot keep up with demand.
I have the drying plant running 24/7 and still need more drying kilns.

Actually our sales are up due to floating floor customers removing the floater and replacing with solid wood.
They are the people that installed floaters about 3-5 years ago and now the floaters are roooted.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Grafton

Love the statements of "fact" that sometimes appear.
Anyhow don't trust cold figures in isolation, especially the ones like "relative or specific gravities" & "janka" hardness, very important issues for sure, especially if you like imbedding 6mm ballbearings in your floor or maybe even jumping up & down in the wifes' stilletos' (as we all do on when the urge hits :o ) what about the bare feet feel, slip & trip issues, the random pattern some floors have, light and energy reflection or absorption & one I don't think is considered or discussed often enough "wear factor". A material can be incredibly hard but not very tough or incredibly tough, but not overly hard or both and still get worn quite quickly.
Walk on some floors, ask the dogs opinion, think about what happens when the kids fall over, or you drop a plate, spill a bit of red, all relevant I reckon.

speaking of polished concrete.

can anyone give me an idea on the cost involved? my possible scenario is purchasing a two bedroom villa with open plan kitchen, dining & loungeroom. currently the property is fitted with lino. its an investment property so i would like to do a quick reno to rent out asap. i am looking at the option of pulling up the lino and polishing the concrete.

i know very little information about the process. ive googled various sites and viewed finished products that are quite impressive (boral concrete etc). unforunately they are of a much higher standard and finish then i would expect (and i would imagine higher price also). ive seen older retail stores that have re-opened and polished their concrete floors. it tends to have a more rougher, natural, not so worried about the occasional defect look about it (i guess more industrial look). this would be the look that i am after (perhaps as i think it would be a cheaper option, plus i like this look):2tsup:

if anyone can answer? my question is would it be considerably cheaper to tile with a base priced tile rather then polishing the concrete? i definetly do not want to re-lino.

any info would be much appreciated - just trying to put my feelers out on this one.

cheers
Josh

Concrete or tile, the floor shouldn't be too highly polished, so as to reduce slipping. My brother was considering replacing old bathroom tiles because they had "attained" a matte finish. I told him, "No, no; they're supposed to be that way." At least that's how they were built around 1940.

Joe

The biggest cost with polished concrete floors is the actual polishing.

Here in the south west of Western Australia an average polishing cost is around $100 per square metre. When you see the work and the machinery involved it actually doesn't look too bad. It is a very labour intensive process, even with the high-tech machines these guys use.

If you need to have a grey concrete slab, consider poring it in a colour. We have 28 different concrete colours/styles here in WA, so there's a load of choice and the colour and fancy aggregates don't cost a lot more than standard grey. Labour cost is also the same but I'd consider increasing the ground slab mesh size to SL82.

We'll have loads of information on polished concrete as well as exposed aggregate concrete at our website at -
http://www.concretewa.com.au
It should be live before the end of this month!!

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by mrsxtro

Hi all.

2. Floating floor- Love the look. Concerned how well it will hold up under the onslaught. Are the laminates fairly sturdy? How about the veneers? Is either more durable than the other? I-mrsxtro

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I know that laminates aren't popular - (not many thumbs up on this forum yet) but when you think about it , many shopping centres use it - what harder life could you imagine. As for the veneers it has already been mentioned that you may need to resand and seal from time to time.

With the above in mind I put a laminate in my lounge a few years ago and have not regreted it - none but the most observant notice that it is not real wood.

I have slate in my kitche which needs annual maintainance, prior to that we had tiles: with slate tiles or concrete you cannot afford to drop plates etc, tiles are the worst because a chip is noticeable wheras with slate it can be resealed and hidden.

All in all laminate is cheaper and maintainance free plus the lower cost means that when you are ready you can easily change the finish.

Denn (the cheap skate)

I just had a waffle slab poured - so simple to install. The pods for the slab above them and the gaps between the pods form the reinforced ribs. Effectively you are replacing the soil mounds that exist in a normal raft slab with foam. The insulation effect is arouond R1.

The advantages for me were -

1. the footings are raised above ground - great for a federation style house like mine.
2. Concrete can be more accurately estimated due to accurate dimensions of pods.
3. No need to dig as much - great on rocky ground lilke ours.

Our slab was cured chemically so my concern is the sticking of direct stick timber in those areas, any advice?

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Originally Posted by mrsxtro

2. Floating floor- Love the look. Concerned how well it will hold up under the onslaught. Are the laminates fairly sturdy? How about the veneers? Is either more durable than the other? I understand the veneers are sandable but I really don't want to be doing it every year or two! There'd be no timber left in just a few years.

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There is a third option, non floating flooring, stuck directly to a level surface either concrete or timber. This will look like normal flooring and sound like it rather than the thud thud of a floating floor with beading around the edge. Then put an nice skirting board around and its perfect.

If its a new home why would you go floating floor? Floating is generally only used when someone does not want to lift the skirting board.

Re laminates have a look at their thickness, if you have dogs sliding around and if they are big ones with sharp claws its conceivable that they could scratch right through the veneer.

Are you going to go along and dredge up every thread on flooring and add your two cents to it? The original thread to which you are responding was posted in 2005. Hopefully they've resolved their flooring issues by now...

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Originally Posted by silentC

Are you going to go along and dredge up every thread on flooring and add your two cents to it? The original thread to which you are responding was posted in 2005. Hopefully they've resolved their flooring issues by now...

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Not intentional, Im blinded by passion!! and if it helps others then maybe the same questions are not repeated then, from that perspective its valulable, if not then take it or leave it.

I too am looking at building on acreage and have many questions about the slab.

I'm quite interested in polished concrete. I've been told, if you choose to do it, then pick your contractors VERY carefully. If the apprentice holds the vibrator in one spot too long, then the finish might have more aggregate in that spot and less suirrounding it. A mate told me the other day that he'd seen a polished floor where she (the owner) threw a couple of 20L buckets of smashed bottles in every agi that turned up. Got them to spin it a bit before pouring. The polisher didn't like it, something about glass and his machine but the finish was spectacular.

Also, I believe that you have to either polish straight after pouring the slab, or put a screed over the top and polish that. I think either way, it happens at the start of the job, so you have to buy a bucket load of ply wood or similar to protect the slab while everyone else is doing their thing.

With the timber floor, you can get a real, old scholl timber floor on a slab by fixing timber "joists" to the slab and then laying the boards on them. More expensive but very effective.

Let us know how you go

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Originally Posted by bushmanpat

With the timber floor, you can get a real, old scholl timber floor on a slab by fixing timber "joists" to the slab and then laying the boards on them. More expensive but very effective.

Let us know how you go

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Sorry but I am not knowedgeable about concrete to give you advice on polishing it.

Personally I dont like floating floors! the main reason is the "thud thud" when you walk on them and the finish needs have beading around the skirting boards. Secondly if you have kids or animals run on them it vibrates through the room and house.

Paul

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Originally Posted by StylePlantation

Personally I dont like floating floors!

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This technique is not a floating floor. It is a technique to lay a timber floor on a concrete slab. There is no thud thud because the timber joists are firmly fixed to the concrete and the floor itself it fixed to the joists, same as any real timber floor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bushmanpat

This technique is not a floating floor. It is a technique to lay a timber floor on a concrete slab. There is no thud thud because the timber joists are firmly fixed to the concrete and the floor itself it fixed to the joists, same as any real timber floor.

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How far appart are the timber joists and how high are they?

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Originally Posted by E. maculata

think about what happens when the kids fall over, or you drop a plate, spill a bit of red, all relevant I reckon.

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Good advice, my last place had concrete floors and I loved them. Didn't feel cold to me, easy to look after, etc, but they were the most unforgiving floor imaginable. I grew up in a home with cork floors, and we barely ever broke a glass or plate as they'd just bounce. And kids never got hurt falling over. But drop something on concrete, or slip and fall and it's a hard landing indeed.

Hi to all
There's polished concrete then there's polished concrete.
One version is polish/grind the slab then coat with a sealer cheapest option but in my opinion not worth it as you have on going maintenance and not the best look.
2nd option is polish/grind slab with different degrees of grinding disks down to a very fine grade applying penetrating sealers as you go. The finish can be mirror finish and make the concrete very hard with no on going maintenance. I have seen this done on a 100 year old slab so it can be done at any stage old or new.
Then there is acid staining which can turn concrete various colours so an old slab can be coloured.


Hope this helps cheers al

waffle slabs do have the benefit of being cheap less concrete and excavation etc... dont put waffles under the garage slab as the project home builders do - i have heard a couple stories about blokes jacking up there cars in their garage and suddenly the slab gives way underneath them

lesson: be aware cannot point a point load on a waffle slab!