Blind Side

Today I saw a couple of people making a purchase at a hardware store. About half a dozen full lengths of pipe. They were parked a couple of spaces away from me and I commented that I would not even attempt to take them with my vehicle (station wagon with room bars). About ten minutes latter they were ready to go, no flags either. Not sure if they made it to their destination safely, but for maybe $50 they could have got it delivered (perhaps not till Monday) perhaps saving themselves from any fines from the Police or damage they caused by their long load blocking the driver's left vision. That could explain why the car is parked where it is.

Any other images of people attaching loads to their vehicle? I saw but did not record the one of the 6m timber on the tandem trailer going into the back of a van. Flag on the back, but not sure if it could go around corners.

Now that's weird. I was under the impression that Bunnings had trailers that could be used for long loads. I can see a tow bar on the end of their car.

I didn't take a photo of a bloke I saw pulling out of bunnies one morning because I was also driving, stuck behind him. He was taking a million years to make a right hand turn back onto the road out the front of bunnies, which isn't an overly busy road and also only 50km/h. Eventually he makes the turn and I could see him directly through his drivers window. The damn fool was hunched under a half sheet, maybe 1200x900 of ply, seeing where he is driving by looking through the steering wheel. He was driving a 2 door hatchback and had put the sheet of ply resting on top of the car seats inside the cabin...

There sure are some stupid people around. Trouble is never a lawman around when you need them.

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Originally Posted by Handyjack

Any other images of people attaching loads to their vehicle?

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Not my picture but I spent a lot of time in Asia when I was in the Army and you would see things like this and a lot worse all day every day.

Cheers

Doug

I notice that they were parked in a handicap space. Obviously they needed some mental assistance.

For a laugh. . .

I'm looking at the picture and wondering how the driver got into the car. Then I realized that your steering wheels are on the wrong side of the car. :)

Actually in Australia our steering wheels are on the right side of the vehicle, in North America they are not on the right side so it must be the wrong side.

The store in question does rent trailers, but I do not think they would have been suitable for the length of the load. They also have utes, (similar to a pickup) which normally have bars for long items. While it probably still would not have been legal with the amount of overhang, it would have been a better and safer choice.

what I want to know is what were the PVC pipes tied down to.
The door mirror at the front? and ??

as to the overhang, I think you are allowed 1.2m front and rear (which equals 2.4 m in total), add on the length of a typical car (4.5m?) and a 6m pipe probably doesn't exceed the allowed limits. And if the side load doesn't project beyond the door mirrors, the whole shebang MIGHT be considered "legal"

Yes, but I think we still have a classification for "legal, but stupid".....:rolleyes:

I know that humans are supposed to be the most intelligent and highly evolved species on the planet, but some people make me worry that the monkeys are catching up.......

Sometimes, I think the monkeys are ahead of us when you see some of the idiotic things that humans do.

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Originally Posted by ian

what I want to know is what were the PVC pipes tied down to.
The door mirror at the front? and ??

Spoiler on the boot lid.

as to the overhang, I think you are allowed 1.2m front and rear (which equals 2.4 m in total), add on the length of a typical car (4.5m?) and a 6m pipe probably doesn't exceed the allowed limits. And if the side load doesn't project beyond the door mirrors, the whole shebang MIGHT be considered "legal"

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As stated, no flags as required when beyond the vehicle, either front or back (cost about $1ea) also you have the loss of vision on the left side of the car. It would make it difficult when you come to an intersection to see vehicles on your left.

:o:o:o:o

I notice that is Bunnings. Ithought stores had some duty of care in regard to long loads. I know the lo0cal Mitre 10 here, before it closed,
would not allow that sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by artme

:o:o:o:o

I notice that is Bunnings. Ithought stores had some duty of care in regard to long loads. I know the lo0cal Mitre 10 here, before it closed,
would not allow that sort of thing.

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I know that when I was working in the timber yard at Bunnings and would comment on people's loads being unsafe I would be told to p!$$ off and mind my own business. If I persisted they would complain to management about the rude guy in the timber yard. Tradies were the worst. I eventually worked out after several reprimands for "unsatisfactory customer relations" not to give a damn. That is the main reason I transferred to night fill to finish my last two years at Bunnies, to get away from the PITA customers. I retired in September and do not miss it one bit.
For every bad Bunnings team member story I can give you 10 bad customer stories.

I filled up the back of my ute with a bunch of 2.1 MERCH sticks at bunnies one day. The ute can fit 1800mm inside so I had about 300mm hanging out the back which I believe isn't quite kosher because I think any overhang beyond the extremities of the car isn't ok. After paying and driving up to the gate to have my load checked for any freebies, the bloke handed me a bunnies bright orange flag for next time free of charge.

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Originally Posted by Grumpy John

I know that when I was working in the timber yard at Bunnings and would comment on people's loads being unsafe I would be told to p!$$ off and mind my own business.

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Several years ago when I was running a concrete garden edging business in Queensland, my supplier of sand and cement called me and all the other tradies they supplied to into a free breakfast one morning where they announced to us that they had been visited by the police about unsafe loads leaving their yard.

We were given specific instructions about loads having to be covered and everything tied down.They told us that the police had the power to hold the business where the goods were purchased legally responsible in the event of an accident or spill etc. The loads of every trady and private customer just coming in for some sand for the wading pool were inspected before the vehicle was permitted to depart.

I guess that's the "duty of care" Artme was referring to.

Cheers

Doug

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Originally Posted by doug3030

Several years ago when I was running a concrete garden edging business in Queensland, my supplier of sand and cement called me and all the other tradies they supplied to into a free breakfast one morning where they announced to us that they had been visited by the police about unsafe loads leaving their yard.

We were given specific instructions about loads having to be covered and everything tied down.They told us that the police had the power to hold the business where the goods were purchased legally responsible in the event of an accident or spill etc. The loads of every trady and private customer just coming in for some sand for the wading pool were inspected before the vehicle was permitted to depart.

I guess that's the "duty of care" Artme was referring to.

Cheers

Doug

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Technically I believe it's called "chain of responsibility." But I'm not sure it applies to retail customers.

Don't get me wrong, I most certainly believe in duty of care. However after having run ins with customers and getting reported I just gave up. Two of the best were:
1. a guy came in to the tool shop wanting a 300mm cut off blade for his 5" angle grinder. I tried to tell him how unsafe it was. His reply " I'm a tradie, I know what I'm doing", okay fine, here's your cut off blades. Told my coordinator what happened and got him to document it in a diary in case the guy came back minus an arm wanting to blame me for selling him inappropriate goods.
2, young guy comes up to me in electrical asking for a 15amp outlet. I couldn't help myself and asked him what he wanted it for. Seems his wife was a cleaning fanatic and wanted to clean behind the stove. His brilliant idea was to put a plug on the stove and plug it into the 15amp outlet. Got into a rather heated discussion over that one.

It's funny when these people complain about the bad customer service they leave details like these out.

Sorry to hijack your thread Handyjack, I'll get off my high horse now.

John, you might find that the "power point" for the stove could nearly be legal. I remember putting in a kitchen where the stove just plugged in to its own PP. It would have been on its own circuit though.

Our local building supplies company has told the yard staff that if they allow someone leave with a "bad load" the building supply company is liable should the driver have an accident.

Its only good practice to load a vehicle properly so you are not a danger to others. Common sense needs to be exercised but its getting uncommon in this day and age

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Originally Posted by chambezio

John, you might find that the "power point" for the stove could nearly be legal. I remember putting in a kitchen where the stove just plugged in to its own PP. It would have been on its own circuit though.

Our local building supplies company has told the yard staff that if they allow someone leave with a "bad load" the building supply company is liable should the driver have an accident.

Its only good practice to load a vehicle properly so you are not a danger to others. Common sense needs to be exercised but its getting uncommon in this day and age

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I'm talking about a hard wired stove on a 40/50 amp circuit.

We had this poster in the hut in the timber yard, still people wanted to argue. Most common answer was, "I'm only going round the corner".

Attachment 400622

I can see why they always ask "what are you after" not "what are you doing".

By not asking they dont know. Good policy.

It's a shame the law tries to make something as generic as a hardware store responsible for its customers actions. If a few more shows were on TV documenting emergency room visitations and deaths by DIY idiots - rather than those STUPID DIY shows showing "you can do it* " - we'd be all better off.

I've many stories, but this one took the cake - two old biddies were in the electrical section trying to buy two double power points. They didn't know what to get, were pressuring the floor guy to tell them how to install them and refused to buy a screw driver (they hadn't one). They refused his repeated exhortation to hire an electrician. They were going to use a kitchen knife to do up the wiring. I kid you not. They had NO idea that they needed to turn the power off at the fuse box and didn't know which fuse controlled which circuit. I absolutely kid you not. This is 100% true.




*. No. No you really can't.

I've never understood that VicRoads poster with regards to my ute. How much overhang at the rear of my Ute am I allowed? 150mm? "a little bit"?, none?

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Originally Posted by Kuffy

I've never understood that VicRoads poster with regards to my ute. How much overhang at the rear of my Ute am I allowed? 150mm? "a little bit"?, none?

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None. And using a flag doesn't make it legal.

Cheers John, that's what I thought but I am forever presented with examples of others having 1.5m out the back which makes me question if I am right or are they right...

But it goes both ways.

I went in to the tool shop at Bunnings to get a 5/8th" drill to bore a hole in some steel. The misfit who asked if she could help me tried to send me home with a 5/8th" timber auger bit. She still insisted it would do the job when I pointed out I wanted to drill steel and this was clearly marked as a wood tool. She said it would work on hardwood so steel would not be a problem. :rolleyes:

Cheers

Doug

Why can a truck overhang with a flag but not a trailer?

When one says "no overhang" as in nothing, does this include the thickness of the rope? Yes, it's a belligerent question, but its the ancient problem of "the heap". If one must have the contents of a trailer contained entirely within it, how does one secure the load via outside hooks if the very ropes are considered its contents as well?

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Originally Posted by doug3030

But it goes both ways.

I went in to the tool shop at Bunnings to get a 5/8th" drill to bore a hole in some steel. The misfit who asked if she could help me tried to send me home with a 5/8th" timber auger bit. She still insisted it would do the job when I pointed out I wanted to drill steel and this was clearly marked as a wood tool. She said it would work on hardwood so steel would not be a problem. :rolleyes:

Cheers

Doug

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I was monitoring the gate at the timber yard one day and a ford sedan pulls up to leave. Four big Islanders in the car with their arms out the windows hanging on to a 900x1800 solid timber benchtop. We've got tie-downs in aisle 7 I say, nah she'll be right bro was the answer.
Good luck with that one doing 80K's down the South Gippy Hwy.

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Originally Posted by woodPixel

If one must have the contents of a trailer contained entirely within it, how does one secure the load via outside hooks if the very ropes are considered its contents as well?

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Are the ropes considered contents?

The Maximum width of a vehicle (without getting into over size categories) is 2500mm including any tie downs.

In the old days it was 8ft 2 1/2inches whereby your load was 8ft leaving 2 1/2 inches for tie downs.

Keep in mind though, to see past this maximum width load your mirrors have to be wider than the maximum width!:D

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Originally Posted by doug3030

But it goes both ways.

I went in to the tool shop at Bunnings to get a 5/8th" drill to bore a hole in some steel. The misfit who asked if she could help me tried to send me home with a 5/8th" timber auger bit. She still insisted it would do the job when I pointed out I wanted to drill steel and this was clearly marked as a wood tool. She said it would work on hardwood so steel would not be a problem. :rolleyes:

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perhaps she was referring to the "special" steel sometimes stocked by them

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Originally Posted by artme

:o:o:o:o

I notice that is Bunnings. Ithought stores had some duty of care in regard to long loads. I know the lo0cal Mitre 10 here, before it closed,
would not allow that sort of thing.

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Nothing stopping the person who took the photo challenging the driver of the car. If that fails then get a shot of the car rego and deliver photos to your nearest cop shop and let them take care of it. Where I work we have a saying regarding obviously unsafe situations..."if you see it you own it"

Thank you, but as you might not see in the image, there is nothing to identify the driver, assistant of vehicle. This was done on purpose for my safety. Perhaps I could have got on the phone to the police but I also had things to do and I was not going to follow them and put myself and vehicle at risk. The image was recorded at the last moment before I got in the car.

Is the store responsible? No. Goods had been paid for and taken out to the car park. How they are taken from there is up to the owner of the goods. The store just offers safe methods of transport. No doubt if they had asked for advice it would have been given. I have also been given a flag by Bunning's. It lives in the car just in case I need it.

What makes a good store is the staff. Some are on top of the game, others are still learning.

It is very risky giving electrical advice as any work on fixed wiring needs to be done by a qualified person. If you need to ask you probably should not be doing it. Stores cannot give instructions on how to do as it holds them accountable.

I see Grumpy John's Vicroads poster at Robot trading. I think they might have a policy of making sure loads are properly secured.

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Originally Posted by Handyjack

Thank you, but as you might not see in the image, there is nothing to identify the driver, assistant of vehicle. This was done on purpose for my safety. Perhaps I could have got on the phone to the police but I also had things to do and I was not going to follow them and put myself and vehicle at risk. The image was recorded at the last moment before I got in the car.

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You didn't need to follow them...just a quick snap of the rego plate is all that is required. A call to the cops when convenient and then let them take care of it. The aim of the exercise is to make the driver aware that when he does stupid things that endanger himself and others there are people watching and taking notice.

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Originally Posted by Handyjack

Thank you, but as you might not see in the image, there is nothing to identify the driver, assistant of vehicle. This was done on purpose for my safety. Perhaps I could have got on the phone to the police but I also had things to do and I was not going to follow them and put myself and vehicle at risk. The image was recorded at the last moment before I got in the car.

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For some time now I have been thinking about this. Almost everyone has mobile phones these days. There are many situations in which people are fearful of being overheard making a call to draw the attention of the authorities to a situation. An example is somebody being threatened on public transport, which I have seen many times.

What we need is a number we can text to similar to 000 which is monitored in real time. Or alternatively there is an app called "snap send solve" whereby you take a photo, describe the problem and send it to an authority which can deal with it. It automatically identifies the local government authority from your location so if it is a parking problem or roadworks required or similar it uses your gmail to notify the local authority responsible. It also identifies the local supermarket if you are reporting an abandoned shopping trolley for example.

Snap send solve does not result in a real time response so its use is limited. I can see a big advantage here if people have a way to silently report incidents in real time so that they do not draw attention to themselves. But it needs to be monitored and responded to in real time.

Cheers

Doug

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Originally Posted by doug3030

For some time now I have been thinking about this. Almost everyone has mobile phones these days. There are many situations in which people are fearful of being overheard making a call to draw the attention of the authorities to a situation. An example is somebody being threatened on public transport, which I have seen many times.

What we need is a number we can text to similar to 000 which is monitored in real time. Or alternatively there is an app called "snap send solve" whereby you take a photo, describe the problem and send it to an authority which can deal with it. It automatically identifies the local government authority from your location so if it is a parking problem or roadworks required or similar it uses your gmail to notify the local authority responsible. It also identifies the local supermarket if you are reporting an abandoned shopping trolley for example.

Snap send solve does not result in a real time response so its use is limited. I can see a big advantage here if people have a way to silently report incidents in real time so that they do not draw attention to themselves. But it needs to be monitored and responded to in real time.

Cheers

Doug

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In the case of the car in the OPs photo...all that's needed is to note the rego plate and file a traffic complaint with local police station. Usually in the case of relatively minor law breaches the offender gets a caution letter and that's it. If he's already had previous convictions or caution letters then the police may chose to take it further.

I recently had cause to report a character (on P plates) who was repeatedly speeding up and down my street at speeds in excess of 80km/hr in a 50km/hr zone. I filed a traffic complaint with my local cops.....turns out there had been at least 10 other people who had filed similar complaints. The guy ended up getting his license pulled and I haven't seen him on the road for months.

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

I recently had cause to report a character (on P plates) who was repeatedly speeding up and down my street at speeds in excess of 80km/hr in a 50km/hr zone. I filed a traffic complaint with my local cops.....turns out there had been at least 10 other people who had filed similar complaints. The guy ended up getting his license pulled and I haven't seen him on the road for months.

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I find it hard to believe that they took action to pull his license based just on reports from the public. More likely his rego was put on a watch list and they found something that would stand up in court to charge him with. I am not saying it is not worth reporting them but it would be rare that someone could actually be charged with a speeding offence without his speed being accurately recorded by a calibrated police device.

CHeers

Doug

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Originally Posted by ian

as to the overhang, I think you are allowed 1.2m front and rear (which equals 2.4 m in total), add on the length of a typical car (4.5m?) and a 6m pipe probably doesn't exceed the allowed limits. And if the side load doesn't project beyond the door mirrors, the whole shebang MIGHT be considered "legal"

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There's a ruling in WA that overrides the 1.2m total rear overhang.

The overhang from the rear wheels must not exceed 60% of wheel base.
A Ford sedan has a 2.8m wheelbase so the max overhang from the rear wheel cannot be greater than 1.7 m.
Given the overhang from the rear wheel to the rear lights ~1200 mm that leaves about 500 mm of overhang from the rear lights.

He would definitely get done for deliberate obstruction of windows and mirror.

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Originally Posted by BobL

He would definitely get done for deliberate obstruction of windows and mirror.

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and so he should

on holiday in Bali in a taxi.
Guy in front of us on a small motorbike had a concreters wheel barrow tied on his back.

I was in Home Depot looking for a drill bit. Another bloke is standing next to me looking at drill bits also. As one of the useless employees walks by the other bloke asks, "Do you have any auger bits?" Useless responds, "We don't have nothing like that." At that point I said to the bloke, "Like those?" pointing to the augers on the top of the display wall. Useless just slithered away.

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Originally Posted by fenderbelly

on holiday in Bali in a taxi.
Guy in front of us on a small motorbike had a concreters wheel barrow tied on his back.

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If it had been a desk and chair he would have been done for impersonating and office......Sir