Camera restoration

Hi, I have been a member for quite a while but I think this is my first post.
I am a photographer with a particular bent for older cameras and shoot wet plate and film in large formats up to 8"x10"
A friend found this particular camera in a Cash Conv in Murray Bridge in SA and next thing you know I have it sitting in my workshop. It is a Eastman Kodak Century 9A Studio camera a huge beast of a thing and made somewhere between 1906 and 1922. The camera is all mahogany (I think) and the stand is all Cherry (I think) it was painted sometime in its life and I have successfully stripped the paint by using a commercial stripper and cleaned off with a scraper then 99% metho and steel wool. The cleaning off process was reactivating the spirit stain and it has wiped off a tiny bit patchy but the biggest problem is the stand stain is way lighter (and redder) than the camera.

My question (2 fold) is can I just wipe over with a darker (mahoganyish) spirit stain to match all components or will this still be a patchy result? And what to put over the stain as a finish, There is very little info out there on these cameras and all I can find is that they were originally "stained then lacquered" A cameras natural enemy is light (believe it or not) or more precisely reflections so a satin finish would be the order but what?
Thanking you in advance. Michael

Not me but this is her!

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Wow, what a beaut camera. I have a couple of much smaller wet plate and early dry plate cameras in mahogany.

My cameras have an original shellac finish, but not a high gloss finish so reflections are not an issue. If you use shellac you can modify the finish to whatever sheen you want by the number of coats and, if necessary, by cutting back with 0000 steel wool to the desired satin. Shellac dries quickly and when you do not want a high gloss French Polish finish you can get away with using a very fine natural hair brush like the Leonhardy brand brushes sold by The Gold Leaf factory (www.goldleaf.com.au). I have no affiliation but have bought some beautiful squirrel hair and badger hair brushes from them.

Hope this helps. It will look amazing when finished.

David

Sorry, the second (or actually the first part) of your question in regard to the stain. I am of the opinion that old things should look old and have some patina, i.e. signs of age. I am not therefore concerned about some unevenness or mottling in colouration. A totally even colour and finish makes something look new.

I'm not sure if wiping some darker stain over the cherry will make it the same, or make it even, but a little bit of extra stain will help to tone the stand in. If they are different timbers they will have always looked at least slightly different. It is not a good idea to use so much stain that there is no sign of the timber - it looks fake or replaced.

if I am repairing an item and have to replace a piece it is often hard to find the exact same depth of colour as the old timbers. In that case I use a spirit stain to deepen the colour of the replacement part, but always accept that the replacement will show to some extent (especially in photos) and that is Ok because it is part of the items history.

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Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

Wow, what a beaut camera. I have a couple of much smaller wet plate and early dry plate cameras in mahogany.

My cameras have an original shellac finish, but not a high gloss finish so reflections are not an issue. If you use shellac you can modify the finish to whatever sheen you want by the number of coats and, if necessary, by cutting back with 0000 steel wool to the desired satin. Shellac dries quickly and when you do not want a high gloss French Polish finish you can get away with using a very fine natural hair brush like the Leonhardy brand brushes sold by The Gold Leaf factory (www.goldleaf.com.au). I have no affiliation but have bought some beautiful squirrel hair and badger hair brushes from them.

Hope this helps. It will look amazing when finished.

David

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Thanks David and first question to you is Do you use them? I have been shooting wet plate for a while now (far from an expert lol) and nothing compares, they are beautiful images. I usually shoot on black aluminium but have recently shot some on glass and believe me that is beyond words!
I agree fully that I don't want to make it look like new, just trying to replicate what is there. Any period catalogs that I can find only mention a spirit stain and then lacquered, I would have imagined that a full shellac finish (I realise you are not talking french polished) would not have worn well, isn't it very susceptible to moisture and spills etc? Some of the chems used in wet plate are pretty nasty, lots of alchahol and ether not to mention the really good stuff like cyanide etc (although that doesn't get near the camera, some use it for developing).
Maybe the shellac and a wax over the top of it? Thanks for the tip on the brushes too.
Michael

Getting there....
Michael

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It's really looking good....:2tsup:

Just need to make a lens board and a film back, lens is winging its way from Germany as I type then it will be shooting home made glass plates by Chrissy.
Michael

A magnificent camera in it's restoration. Thanks for the pictures.
Alas but I shoot relatively modern 4x5 sheet in several cameras.

That looks absolutely fantastic

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Originally Posted by mikl

Just need to make a lens board and a film back, lens is winging its way from Germany as I type then it will be shooting home made glass plates by Chrissy.
Michael

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As the film size for these cameras is a nominal 8x10" or, as in one case I have personally seen on one of these cameras, Full Plate (8½ x 6½"), I was wondering what lens you have obtained for this beast?

Asks he, who only has three little 4x5" cameras around the place.

Home made glass plates, eh?

I worked in a Graphic Arts trade house in the seventies in Melbourne, around 1975 was the last year we hand coated our own glass plates, shortly after that time, we stopped using glass and changed to sheet film for all processes from then on.

Mick.

Let's guess on his lens = I say in the 400-450mm range. I've got a few from a Rhodie 210 down to a Schneider 90 in a recessed board for my 4x5's.
We used glass plates in the Siemens electron microscope/Botany Dept/LaTrobe until after I left in '72.
I would love to mess with hand coated glass plates. Terrible gap in my photographic experience.

I have a 480mm 3.8 barrel lens coming (actually from a projector) so you were close! I love razor sharp and need the huge opening for the collodion as it only registers at .5..... yes 1/2 ..... ISO, have to wait and see just how shallow that depth of field is. I may look into cutting a slot in the side of it and making some Waterhouse stops for it but have to have a look at how it all assembles. I have a Toyo 8x10 that as soon as I make myself a portable darkroom will be venturing out doors with. I have a 240 5.6 and a 135 5.6 for that and the big fellah will probably be mounted on a Toyo board but will make a 9 inch board for the old Kodak that will take the Toyo board for easy swap overs. As you are curious I will bung up a pic when it gets in my hot little hands.
Don't tell anyone but I go to the op shop next door and get all their old picture frames and re cycle the glass lol. Come down some time and I will give you guys a demo and Mick I have a 4x5 plate back (a modified polaroid back) here so bring your gear!
I have hardly picked up the digital since trying out the wet plate process.
Michael


https://photos.smugmug.com/My-Wet-Pl...01%29-15-M.jpg

3.8? Goodness! Is the thing on wheels? What with the emulsion speed, can you get away with using the lens cap as a shutter?

The Ilford emulsion on the electron microscope plates worked out to be about ASA 3 (Kodak Tri X was 400).
We fooled with a few to make some pinhole images, too.

Cameras and emulsions like that documented the settlement push west in North America, gold rushes included.

It is big lol, 135 diameter so will probably just fit on the Toyo board but the old Kodak has a 9 inch board so plenty of room. Yes lens cap as a shutter, most exposures are in the 3-5 second range so that should be no issue and if it is I have a Packard shutter that sits behind inside the camera. The sensitivity of the plates ends up a combination of age of the collodion and temperature etc so you always need to do a few plates to get exposure right (unless you use lights but you need upwards of 4800 w/s at a minimum as it only reacts to UV and blue. It is a fun process!
Michael

APUG = Analog Photography Users Group. Good site with something for everyone analog.
Bunch of people messing with platinum process and other home-brew emulsions.
I'll bet there's a gang of collodion users, too.

I got a couple of boxes of 5" x 7" sheet film. joined in with APUG.
Bought some fresh chems in June and considered doing some more serious pinhole work.

I’ve been a member of APUG for probably 10 years now, great resource. There is at least one person in Melbourne, who is on APUG doing wet plate. I saw a wet plate presentation, slide show, not actual demonstration a couple of years ago in Melbourne. Very interesting.

Collodion does look good on glass, recently I saw some examples on black something, which I would think was aluminium, but I cannot remember. It may have been a plastic black based product, cannot remember now.

Is your Toyo an 810G? That would be the logical unit for fiddling the way you are.

One of my 4x5’s is A Toyo 45G which is a very solid camera, I used both a 4X5 and an 8X10 Toyo monorail cameras in a work environment about 30 years ago, pretty much indestructible.

480mm 3.8, ooh, that is fast.

Yes Opti, the Toyo is a beautiful camera. The aluminium is probably trophy plate, like the stuff they engrave "footballer of the year" etc on it works well but glass is way more unique, lot more work but beautiful to work with. With the trophy plate you just peel off the protective cover and pour your collodion but there has been some issues with random sheets "gassing" after being peeled and the collodion not adhering ok if you leave them pealed for a couple of hours. My 4x5 is a Sinar P1 and typically swiss..... The Germans have nothing on them for solid!
Anyway my lens finally turned up and it is HUGE so I knocked up a lens board out of ply (mahogany jointed properly one to come when I get a minute) And the image on the ground glass is probably the first through there for, I don't know 50 or 60 years. Also making a lens cap for it out of Kauri and a 160mm PVC pipe cap, near perfect fit! Pic is only roughed out so be nice lol.
Michael

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Originally Posted by Optimark

I’ve been a member of APUG for probably 10 years now, great resource. There is at least one person in Melbourne, who is on APUG doing wet plate. I saw a wet plate presentation, slide show, not actual demonstration a couple of years ago in Melbourne. Very interesting.

Collodion does look good on glass, recently I saw some examples on black something, which I would think was aluminium, but I cannot remember. It may have been a plastic black based product, cannot remember now.

Is your Toyo an 810G? That would be the logical unit for fiddling the way you are.

One of my 4x5’s is A Toyo 45G which is a very solid camera, I used both a 4X5 and an 8X10 Toyo monorail cameras in a work environment about 30 years ago, pretty much indestructible.

480mm 3.8, ooh, that is fast.

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Had to make a lens cap for the Leisgang so I had some old NZ Kauri, 100 year old leather from a piano stool cover and the left over English felt form the camera stand so a bit of chopping, shaping, a bit of glue tiny bit of swearing and hey presto.... 1 lens cap.
Michael

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Innovative lens cap. Will the rim be light-dark enough for shutter use?

Magnificent image on the GG. I wonder what all that GG has seen in it's lifetime.

Should be light tight, it is pretty firm on the barrel so I am hoping it will loosen up over time and use. I tried to find out the history of the camera from the place I purchased it but they either didn't know or wouldn't tell me. Shame really as the history is just as interesting to me as the actual camera.
Michael

I'm just thinking of all the alternative chemistries that you can mess with.
I suppose that it's up to you now to give that camera some history.

You know what I've never seen (and I like museums)?
I'd like to see a time line, punctuated with real examples of the various light sensitive processes
which appeared along the way in the development of photography.

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Originally Posted by Robson Valley

I'm just thinking of all the alternative chemistries that you can mess with.
I suppose that it's up to you now to give that camera some history.

You know what I've never seen (and I like museums)?
I'd like to see a time line, punctuated with real examples of the various light sensitive processes
which appeared along the way in the development of photography.

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Here you go, although you will have to wait until 2019 before it re-opens.

Having a sister in-law living in a Munich suburb helps with, but this photographic exhibition, which was put together to celebrate 150 years of photography, is stunning. I spent the best part of 5 hours there and didn't cover everything. The missus, being German, could translate some of the longer German epistles. Although the exhibition is in German, there are English sub titles, if you get my drift. But some of the English was a bit brief, or in some obscure bits, non existent. Nonetheless, absolutely brilliant exhibition.

Saw one of the worlds first instant picture booths, which, if my memory serves me, was for a Chicago World fair I think in the late 1800's. That particular piece really blew both of us away as we didn't realise instant pictures (relatively) were around so early in the photographic journey.

Mick.

Deutsches Museum: Foto + Film

There really hasn't been that many advances in "capture"....... Daguerreotype 1839, then Collodion 1843 (tin and Ambro type or wetplate... this is what I do) then dry plate or Silver Gelatin 1870's, then film... cellulose and plastic etc then digital.... All except digital are based on Silver of some sort, Dags were Silver iodide, wet plate was Silver Nitrate, Dry plates were a gelatin (wouldn't rub off as it is hardened in the process) with Silver, even film has silver in it.
Printing is a whole other world with so many processes it ain't funny a lot involve noble metals such as platinum, silver, gold etc.
Please not I am far from a historian and I have really only started to scratch the surface in trying to perfect this process and the above is very very brief but you get the idea.

Nothing is more pure than light hitting an excited metal to give you an image! It is a beautiful process! Oh and to give you an idea of the speed a normal outdoors shot on a nice day with film you would use a film speed of say 100 ISO, cloudy day or getting dark say 400 ISO, Collodion has a speed of .5.... yep 1/2 of 1 ISO and it gets less as the collodion ages so that is why the exposures were in the multiple seconds.
Michael

ISO 0.5?? There's a fair heritage here of old stuff where portraits of several seconds were common.
Frontier photo studios had a part covered with thin white cloth for light.

Photography has been a popular part of my family's historical activity, going back into the late 1800's.
Being the oldest, the family archives were all fobbed off on me. I'll guess there's a thousand+ negs,
cellulose nitrate and all. All the usual paperwork stuff, as well. Ruddy boxes and boxes of it.

Anyway, I began souping B&W film and printing at home at age 12 or so.
A decade on, I looked into alternative processing. I ran out of money and time, Uni got in the way.
I do too many other things now. But, I'd still like to see a demonstration of the techniques which
led to modern(?) B&W films and papers. I still think that platinum prints are elegant.
I can print my own 4x5 to 16x20. I've got 5" x7" B&W film, want to fool with pinhole.

Put a canopy on the back of a bummed out old ute and there's your darkroom!

Well no project is complete until it is used for its intended purpose ...... so I give you matt, shot on glass using the 1853 wet plate or Ambrotype method.

https://photos.smugmug.com/My-Wet-Pl...f%201%29-M.jpg

On the money there, nailed the focus to boot.

Mick.

And, there's the proof. Congratulations on the build.

I saw this link on a photographic forum I frequently visit, thought it may allow members here who don't quite know the ins and outs of wet plate photography a bit of a peak of another modern day practitioner.

https://apenasimagens.com/en/wet-pla...roger-sassaki/

Mick.