Timeless Truths

Came across these recently, it appears nothing has really changed.

Great Timeless Truths


In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a government.
John Adams

If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.
Mark Twain

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of government. But then I repeat myself.
Mark Twain

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
Winston Churchill

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
George Bernard Shaw

Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
Douglas Casey, Classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown University

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavours to live at the expense of everybody else.
Frederic Bastiat, French economist(1801-1850)

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
Will Rogers

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free!
P.J. O'Rourke

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.
Voltaire (1764)

Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you!
Pericles (430 B.C.)

No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.
Mark Twain (1866)

Talk is cheap...except when government does it.
Anonymous

The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other.
Ronald Reagan

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin.
Mark Twain

What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley, Artist (1928-1995)

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
Thomas Jefferson

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.
Aesop (Aesop's Fables or the Aesopica is a collection of fables credited to Aesop, a slave and storyteller believed to have lived in Ancient Greece.

Gosh - so many of these resonate with our recent election experience.....:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by woodPixel

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - Ronald Reagan

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110% correct.

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Originally Posted by Bob38S

Came across these recently, it appears nothing has really changed.

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Correct. It appears that people still love to whine about the government

Lets have a closer look at some of these, shall we? I took the liberty of reordering them slightly

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Great Timeless Truths

If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.
Mark Twain

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Off to a good start, I half agree with this one. newspapers are full of biased rubbish. However, thanks to the internet, there are many many many more sources of information now, so you can be informed without reading a newspaper.

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I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
Winston Churchill

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Churchill was dead wrong here. If everyone, businesses and individuals, paid their fair share of taxes, we would not be in the global mess we are in right now. There would be more than enough money to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless and support those who need supporting, while maintain a decent standard of living for everyone else. but, people are greedy, corporations are ruthless and self interested idiots vote.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
George Bernard Shaw

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Is Shaw saying that taxes are robbery? What about the societal obligation that comes with being a member of a functioning (relatively), stable society? To benefit from the myriad of services a government provides like clean water, safe food, a police force, a fire brigade, health care, dispute resolution, weather forecasting, so on and so forth. These things cost money and helping to pay for these services is incumbent on those who benefit from them. Or, refer to my previous point about greed and idiocy.

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Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
Douglas Casey, Classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown University

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Might. The fact that again, greed corrupts a process is not an indictment against the process, its an indictment against greed. Foreign aid is a good thing and if there was more of it, there would be less reasons for groups like Daesh to exist. Do you think happy, content citizens just wake up one day and decide to go to war against an enemy on the other side of the globe?

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If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free!
P.J. O'Rourke

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This is just complete rubbish. Especially in Australia. We had one of the greatest health care systems in the world, till the neoliberals got their hands on it. its still better in every single outcome than the american system, which is by far and away the most expensive system in the world, and is the major cause of bankruptcies in the nation.

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In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a government.

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John Adams

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of government. But then I repeat myself.
Mark Twain

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavours to live at the expense of everybody else.
Frederic Bastiat, French economist(1801-1850)

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
Will Rogers

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.
Voltaire (1764)

Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you!
Pericles (430 B.C.)

No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.
Mark Twain (1866)

Talk is cheap...except when government does it.
Anonymous

The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other.
Ronald Reagan

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin.
Mark Twain

What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley, Artist (1928-1995)

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
Thomas Jefferson

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.
Aesop (Aesop's Fables or the Aesopica is a collection of fables credited to Aesop, a slave and storyteller believed to have lived in Ancient Greece.

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And then there is the general angst against the government, which is fairly laughable. Did you enjoy waking up to a time that was kept accurate by the government, maybe have a cup of tea with water thats kept safe by government regulation. Did your house get robber last night (probably not, thanks to the government)? Did your neighbour decide to annex your land because he is bigger and stronger than you (probably not, thanks to the government)? Did you go shopping, secure in the knowledge that all the produce you bought was safe to eat, thanks to the government? Did you drive on the road that was installed and maintained by the government in a car that was guaranteed to have a variety of safety equipment and performed to a minimum standard, thanks to the government? Did the appliances you purchased work thanks to the standard of electricity supplied by companies that conformed to the rules set by the government, and if they didnt work, that you could probably return them and get them repaired or replaced, thanks to minimum warranty enforced by the government.

but no, sit there complaining about what the government does. Good work.

Touche.

The neoliberal-conservatives have scored a number of recent successes in Texas. These are some of the fruits of their labors.

Maternal mortality has doubled. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...linics-funding

Had a local surge in syphilis cases recently. S.A. syphilis epidemic breaks recent records - San Antonio Express-News
Absolutely amazing to me that the 7th largest city in the worlds wealthiest and most powerful country is having a syphilis outbreak. What's next, scurvy and rickets?

50th in high school graduation rate among the 50 states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nal_attainment

Texas is first however in the number of uninsured persons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health..._United_States

It also leads the nation in executions. Number of Executions by State and Region Since 1976 | Death Penalty Information Center at the same time it only ranks 7th in per-capita incarceration rate. http://www.sentencingproject.org/the...set-option=SIR

This gives a grim summary. http://shapleigh.org/system/reportin...s_documents3.p

Putting this into international perspective, Texas has about 27 million residents (2nd most populous US state), roughly 3 million more than Australia.

At the national level educational attainment in the US is quite poor, we're 36th in math skills, 25th in reading ability and 28th in science. Don't forget of course that Texas has the lowest high school graduation rate.

Australia is 17th in math, 12th in reading and 6th in science. Given that these skills are fundamental to the functioning of a modern state I can confidently predict that the US is in for a rough time, living as it has for so long on the fruits of the labors of older and better educated generations.

The neocon/neoliberal experiment has failed in Texas and much of the US south. You Antipodeans should be thankful for your socialist paradise IMO. Never forget, money is our only truly renewable resource.

DonIncogognito

Most of your comments could have equally applied to the German Nation before WW2. The big question is whether these "benefits" are because of a government or despite a government and whether there is a price to pay for for these "benefits."

Are these "benefits" the result of a self-serving government? Do any of you remember the catch phrase in Queensland "Don't you worry your head about that?" Queensland was dragged into the 20th century as a result of that government, but to my mind is still reeling from the legacy.

There has always been some form of government, the real question is how well they are performing that task and it appears that recent governments of both political parties are so embroiled in their own petty feuds and prejudices that they are making a right pig's ear of the whole affair. This trickles down to the State and Local government levels too.

There's another problem. Three levels of government! For me State Government is superfluous.

Regards
Paul

Regards
Paul

Paul, I think your comments would strike a chord with many.

I have been corresponding with an old schoolmate of mine and he would concur with what you say
as would many of my old school and college mates.

What a pity that it takes years of painful experiences to come to the realization that the system is agin the
common man. I believe the political class realizes this and knows that each wave of new voters will only
wake up when it is too late.

Arthur

I often recall a comment made by Michael Parkinson. He said that before he was a household name he was in a lift in BBC house in central London. Two other men were in the lift: A prominent politician and his staffer. They had just been in an interview and the politician said "That went well didn't it."

The aide replied, "It certainly did. Didn't tell them anything."

It's no wonder that in regard to politics I am sceptical at best and cynical at worst.

Regards
Paul

Rob

You present a bleak state of affairs, but somehow it doesn't surprise. Imagine how it will go if the current republican candidate gets up. Redneck rules. :(

Regards
Paul

Paul,

I doubt DT can swing this election, he just won't get out of his own way. Much more worrisome is the fact that he is a symptom of political malaise. Now we need to worry who might step in to take advantage of public discontent if he fails to be elected. Could be much much worse.

Regards,
Rob

Aye Rob

Better the devil we know? Some choice :( .

Regards
Paul

I was thinking 'Better the incompetent clown that nobody will take seriously than the competent dictator'.

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

DonIncogognito

Most of your comments could have equally applied to the German Nation before WW2.

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If you would like to start a conversation about the similarities between Nazi Germany and Current day Australia, I have a fair amount of to post on that topic as well. There is no doubt that there are many policies of the last few governments that are horrifying to say the least. Tropical rape death camps are pretty high on that list. Despite that, we live in one of the most peaceful times in history, with the highest standard of living ever recorded. Most of which can be put down to having an overarching system in place to ensure that society runs well.

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The big question is whether these "benefits" are because of a government or despite a government and whether there is a price to pay for for these "benefits."

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Undoubtedly because of a government. Sure, it could definitely be run better, and I would make huge changes if I was in charge, but the standard of living we have today could not be possible without a government in place. The price for this is getting higher and higher, with privacy being eroded and national security theatre becoming the catch cry of the day. Of course there is a price for it. I like how you put "benefits" in scare quotes. Do you not think clean running water and a fire service is a benefit?

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Are these "benefits" the result of a self-serving government? Do any of you remember the catch phrase in Queensland "Don't you worry your head about that?" Queensland was dragged into the 20th century as a result of that government, but to my mind is still reeling from the legacy.

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Sir Joh was a fascist, and QLD is a redneck backwater that needs a good shaking up. I would argue its still firmly living in the past, what with Pauline "I have a problem with brown people" Hansen and Bob "There are no gay people in my village" Katter and Peter "Im a ing potato" Dutton all hailing from there.

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There has always been some form of government, the real question is how well they are performing that task and it appears that recent governments of both political parties are so embroiled in their own petty feuds and prejudices that they are making a right pig's ear of the whole affair. This trickles down to the State and Local government levels too.

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Again, I dont argue that government is perfect. It clearly isnt. Yet the record speaks for itself. If you want to make changes to government, I suggest voting for the party that gets its members to set its policies, and the higher up the elected official, the less power they have. Plus, they have the benefit of being the only major party that doesnt support torturing innocent children, which is a hell of a bonus in my books.

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There's another problem. Three levels of government! For me State Government is superfluous.

Regards
Paul

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Given the immense focus on western sydney and what its denizens think, im glad for state government right now. My issue is that there is a revolving door of corruption, and people arent held to account for shockingly stupid decisions, but again, nothing is perfect.



If you want to know what the problem is with society right now, look firmly towards the media. The 24hr news cycle and Rupert ing Murdoch have screwed this country, and others like it, all around the world. Society has been dumbed down to 30 second sound bites and nuanced topics simply cant be discussed any more. Democracy depends on an informed populace, and the last 30 years of scientist bashing has gotten rid of that.

I really like some of those quotes. And here is another of my favourites:
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" - George Carlin

Blessed are the meek for they shall inhibit the earth.

(That was my signature line but too many people mistook it for a Biblical quote, so a change was made.)
Regards

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Originally Posted by DonIncognito

Democracy depends on an informed populace, and the last 30 years of scientist bashing has gotten rid of that.

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Think it's bad now just wait until they introduce 'Charter schools' in your country. We have one in Houston that teaches that Jesus coexisted with the dinosaurs. Informed populace?
Charter schools are part of the privatize everything trend that argues that government is incapable of efficiency, only business is efficient. Their logic has a critical flaw: Government is not a business.

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Originally Posted by rob streeper

Think it's bad now just wait until they introduce 'Charter schools' in your country. We have one in Houston that teaches that Jesus coexisted with the dinosaurs. Informed populace?
Charter schools are part of the privatize everything trend that argues that government is incapable of efficiency, only business is efficient. Their logic has a critical flaw: Government is not a business.

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People who say that business is efficient clearly have not had much experience with business.

I thought the rules said no politics and no religion, me thinks something has snuk in in this thread.
:wink::2tsup:

And wouldn't the world be a great place if there were no politics and no religion? :2tsup:

Most of our complaining is in the top end of the first world's problems, made by pollies voted in by us.

As of Jan this year Australia's position on the international corruption scale is 13th - we were 6th in 2012.
Try telling the Somali's and North Koreans (lowest on the corruption scale) about our "unbelievable corruption" and our "democratic failure" and they will just fall over laughing.

We have 4 of the top 10 most liveable cities in the world.
If they did the same thing for the countryside despite our vast distances and size I think we would still do well.
If you want to really experience problems try living in Damascus, Lagos or Kiev.

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Originally Posted by rob streeper

We have one in Houston that teaches that Jesus coexisted with the dinosaurs. Informed populace?

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Sorry! Couldn't help myself.
:haha2: :roflmao:

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Originally Posted by A Duke

I thought the rules said no politics and no religion, me thinks something has snuk in in this thread.
:wink::2tsup:

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"This forum is for GENERAL DISCUSSION/DEBATE/CONFRONTATION etc. on any topic you like, so long as it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WOODWORK."

:dev:

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Originally Posted by Spiritwolfe

Sorry! Couldn't help myself.
:haha2: :roflmao:

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I agree that on the surface the situation is laughable but think of the poor students who are being educated to the standards of the Dark Ages. How are they going to fare as adults in a world where the children in other countries are properly educated? Texas mandates, in law, that teachers tell students that Evolution is an unproven theory.

Texas is unique in the educational hierarchy of American states. As one of the largest purchasers of schoolbooks the decisions made by Texas schools as to the content of those texts has a nationwide impact. The anti-science sentiments of the rightwing religious of Texas therefore extend far beyond its borders damaging the educations of children across the nation.

Purposely mis-educating children should be recognized as a form of child abuse.

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Originally Posted by rob streeper

"This forum is for GENERAL DISCUSSION/DEBATE/CONFRONTATION etc. on any topic you like, so long as it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WOODWORK."

:dev:

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That is overridden by the ToU of this forum which in general don't allow threads on politics and religion.

One post here was already temporarily moderated for discussion by the Admin team and the decision was made to let it go but watch.

As long as the discussion stays on governments in general and not on people's personal political views it will stay open.

Having said that, I have deleted one very personal view on politics, not because it is right or wrong but because it is against the ToU.

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Originally Posted by DonIncognito

If you would like to start a conversation about the similarities between Nazi Germany and Current day Australia, I have a fair amount of to post on that topic as well.

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DonIncognito

No, I don't really wish to go down that track for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was merely making a comment that every country has a government and even the bad governments probably do something well. Actually, there are some that are just pure unadulterated poison, but I don't want to denigrate too many emergent nations under despotic regimes, but I expect you get the drift.

Secondly, it is quite clear that I would be on the same page with many of your statement and only on the next or previous pages with most of the others.

You are right that we should not condemn governments out of hand, but it is disappointing to see that they could do so much better if they could only get over themselves.

Regards
Paul

PS: I would draw your attention to my little saying at the foot of all my posts. It has been there for a long time now.

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

PS: I would draw your attention to my little saying at the foot of all my posts. It has been there for a long time now.

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Sorry duder, I dont see sigs. Turn em off on every forum I talk on.