Oak table

Hi all,

I may have underquoted this job.
When I first saw it 'in situ' I thought it would be a quick restore. When I got it home, I realised that there was more to do than I first thought.

It's a nice old oak table with good proportions. Lovely aged top that has seen a lot of use.
Origin = English?
Age = Turn of the century?

Nice beaded aprons and pleasant turnings. The top has one join which is loose and open. It's also quite cupped.
It has been painted at some time, and while it's been well stripped, there's still a bit of paint to pick out of the grain.

Attachment 387298Attachment 387300Attachment 387301

The top was nailed on with big old nails.
After tapping the top off, it was time to remove the nails.
Driving them out upwards is just asking for trouble, so I punched them through from the top.
I like to wet around the nail (with metho) to minimise blowout. You could also use a block with a hole in it for support around the nail.
I'll fill the holes with oak plugs.
EDIT: If those are pitsaw marks, the table may be older than I thought?

Attachment 387308Attachment 387309

Interestingly, the frame was never glued. It was drawbored through haunched tenons.
I drilled out the dowels (after centre punching them) to knock the frame apart.
A couple of the legs were loose after the mortise side walls gave way (see pic). I doubt this would have happened if they were glued.
I will be gluing them with hide glue and driving in dowels.

Attachment 387304Attachment 387306

I used the top flattening technique recently detailed in this thread by Xanthorrhoeas.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f173/t...le-tops-206677

I have used this method many times with success.

Attachment 387310Attachment 387311

The top sections were grooved both sides and a floating tongue was used.
It's now glued up and drying.
I'll put the top back down onto the lawn to flatten again before attaching to the apron.
It was very dry on the top. I think after polishing it will stabilise.

More to come as I get some time.

Cheers all,
Stu

That looks like a real labour of love. I find it interesting that the draw bored dowels/pins broke away the tenon cheeks rather than pulling out the ends of the tenons as that is what I usually find happening in chairs. The tenon cheeks must have been a bit light-on. As you say, a good dose of hide glue in the joins should sort that out for the next 100 years.

Good photos thanks, makes it all clear. What are you planning to use to plug the numerous nail holes in the top?

I look forward to seeing the end result.

David

The mortise walls on the outside faces are quite thin. The tenons are muck thicker.
There may have been some twisting or other impact involved. Two of the legs have open cracks at the drawbore line.
If they had been glued, there would have been a bond across the whole tenon and it wouldn't have happened.

I intend to plug the bigger holes with some English Oak I have.
I could be lazy and whittle tapered plugs with the grain, but that would show end grain on the top. The better way is to cut along the end grain to leave long grain on the top. I don't have a tiny plug cutter, so it's fiddly business.
Smaller holes that don't go the whole way through will be filled with tinted beeswax.

Interesting table .

I don't think its Oak , and I don't think its English.

What the timber is is a bit hard from here but it could be an Elm , or Ash .

Or it could be Teak ? maybe not ?? does it a have a smell to it ?

Are those nails the only way the top has been held on ? if no other signs of fixing the top down , show a picture of a nail head .

Rob

Yeah, what auscab said. The fasteners often tell the whole story.

Nice story board
Have you settled on the finish to be applied?
regards
Rob

Good insight into a restoration, thanks for sharing Stu,
Cheers, Ian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by auscab

Interesting table .
I don't think its Oak , and I don't think its English.
What the timber is is a bit hard from here but it could be an Elm , or Ash .
Or it could be Teak ? maybe not ?? does it a have a smell to it ?
Are those nails the only way the top has been held on ? if no other signs of fixing the top down , show a picture of a nail head .
Rob

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The closest I could get to was Oak due to the colour and grain. I have no experience with Elm or Ash furniture so I'm not sure. It has no real smell, and I'm pretty sure it's not Teak.
It could be European? The owners brought it back from England but it could have come from anywhere.
There's no evidence of any fixing other than the nails (no buttons etc.).
Here's a pic of the apron with the nail holes. Seems to be how it was originally fixed.
Also the rose head nails that were used.

Attachment 387393Attachment 387394Attachment 387395

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tahlee

Nice story board
Have you settled on the finish to be applied?
regards
Rob

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Thanks Rob.
I'll be polishing it with shellac.

If I had to take a punt at the timber I would say that it looks like Elm to me, or at least the top does. The sides are a ring-porous timber by the look of it, but not any figure that I have seen in Elm. But then, the most Elm I have seen is in seat furniture.

Many of the early antique tables that I have seen had the top fixed to the frame using glue blocks only. That is, no buttons or screws/nails except those added later. Because the glue blocks were attached with hide glue and that couldn't take the stresses they often fell off. I have had to re-glue the blocks on my earliest table about 4 times in the last 30 years. If that was how your table top was attached there should be witness marks of the remains of the hide glue in rectangular patches inside the top of the rail and on the underside of the table. They may be pretty faint.

I would defer to others with more experience of nails than I have (like auscab) but those nails look to be similar to nails that I think were used about 1900-1920's in Australia. They would have been added in later as the top became loose. It is rare to find a utilitarian table that doesn't have later screws or nails bashed through the top and I even have a very fine cedar extension table that has some screw holes.

I would recommend that you stay away from tinted beeswax as a filler. It is too soft. There are hard wax crayons that you can buy in a range of colours from brands like Liberon that are better. However, the best solution I find is to melt button shellac into the holes with a cheap spade bit soldering iron. It is very hard and fully compatible with your finish. I have bought buttons from Shines Shellac in the past. I can look up their number if you are interested (PM me).

I don't have any real experience with nails based on region, but I would agree that they're likely early 20th Century. If they were much older than that, they would likely be cut nails, i.e. flat on four sides and tapered only along one axis.

Not that that helps a whole lot regarding anything else.

Good luck,
Luke

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

If I had to take a punt at the timber I would say that it looks like Elm to me, or at least the top does. The sides are a ring-porous timber by the look of it, but not any figure that I have seen in Elm. But then, the most Elm I have seen is in seat furniture.

Many of the early antique tables that I have seen had the top fixed to the frame using glue blocks only. That is, no buttons or screws/nails except those added later. Because the glue blocks were attached with hide glue and that couldn't take the stresses they often fell off. I have had to re-glue the blocks on my earliest table about 4 times in the last 30 years. If that was how your table top was attached there should be witness marks of the remains of the hide glue in rectangular patches inside the top of the rail and on the underside of the table. They may be pretty faint.

I would defer to others with more experience of nails than I have (like auscab) but those nails look to be similar to nails that I think were used about 1900-1920's in Australia. They would have been added in later as the top became loose. It is rare to find a utilitarian table that doesn't have later screws or nails bashed through the top and I even have a very fine cedar extension table that has some screw holes.

I would recommend that you stay away from tinted beeswax as a filler. It is too soft. There are hard wax crayons that you can buy in a range of colours from brands like Liberon that are better. However, the best solution I find is to melt button shellac into the holes with a cheap spade bit soldering iron. It is very hard and fully compatible with your finish. I have bought buttons from Shines Shellac in the past. I can look up their number if you are interested (PM me).

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There's no evidence of any glue blocks.
EDIT : All of the nail holes were filled with that typical tinted plaster based putty.

The wax I'll be using is a hard crayon type that I melt with some ochres for colour.
This top is very light in colour, so I won't be adding much in the way of tinting.
I'll only be using that for little holes (if I feel like it).
I'll polish over most tiny holes and divets.
I'm certainly not looking for perfection. The top will have lots of character :U
I do have shellac stopper in a stick form. I think that it would be too amber/brown for this top.

Cheers,
Stu

Nice project, opens up some interesting discussion, please keep us posted. Defiantly a labour of love. Do you have a definite use for the completed project?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinosour

Nice project, opens up some interesting discussion, please keep us posted. Defiantly a labour of love. Do you have a definite use for the completed project?

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Cheers.

It's not mine.
I'm doing it for cash and beer for an acquaintance.

I have access to Australian Cedar tables of similar proportions if I needed one myself.
My current problem is that there is no more room left in the house.
The furniture that I restore for myself will only be upgrades.

Yep 1900 to 1920s with the nail .
I've seen plenty of tops fixed on that way and they all do the same thing . Move around a little and the putty falls out. I like pegging tops down with wooden pegs . I'm not into changing from what was origanally done when it comes to restoration though .
Chestnut is another timber that has the look of oak but with no medullary Ray's .
You see it more in French furniture

I'd also go 1900 to 1920 by the nail. Just pulled this one out of a door trim in my house this afternoon. House was built 1916.

Attachment 387645

The top is now on and I've tapped in some plugs for the old nail holes.

Attachment 388453

Result after a few rubs with polish.

Attachment 388454

Saturday was a polishing day. I didn't want a high polish, just a bit of shine.
It's going to be a utilitarian kitchen table. The top was prepared with a good scrubbing with sugar soap only.
I wanted to keep the rustic character.

Attachment 388455

All finished.
Buffed with hard wax and off home with it's owners.

From this ...

Attachment 388456

To this ...

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I've found out a bit more information on the origin of the table.
The owner originally purchased the table in Holland. She used it in a tiny flat for years.

She was happy with the result ...

"It still looks like my old table .... just better"

Cheers all,
Stu

Congratulations on a job well done:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

What a great conversation piece ... thanks for sharing

You have certainly renewed a very tired but lovely table ... most excellent

Rob

Lovely restoration and as said above - thanks for sharing

Lovely job! Has lots of character !

Looks nice Stu , well done .
And not over done :2tsup:

From those last pictures Id say its Elm .
I don't know how many types of Elm there are, but you get to see light coloured types through to dark rich , "ripe as a plumb " types.
In a book I have here there are three types described .
Common English Elm
Dutch Elm and Wych Elm
I was going to put a picture from the book up but I'd better not .
The book describes an attractive pattern of fine zigzag markings. Ive seen the markings the book describes in plenty of Elm and can see it in your table to the left of the front right leg.
Red Arrows.

Rob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by auscab

Looks nice Stu , well done .
And not over done :2tsup:

From those last pictures Id say its Elm .
I don't know how many types of Elm there are, but you get to see light coloured types through to dark rich , "ripe as a plumb " types.
In a book I have here there are three types described .
Common English Elm
Dutch Elm and Wych Elm
I was going to put a picture from the book up but I'd better not .
The book describes an attractive pattern of fine zigzag markings. Ive seen the markings the book describes in plenty of Elm and can see it in your table to the left of the front right leg.
Red Arrows.

Rob

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Thanks Rob.

The last thing I wanted was the table to look like new.

The FIL was over on the weekend before the table went home, and he agrees that it looked like Elm.
Pretty timber.

Very nice work. Bid higher :2tsup:.