1/2" Solid Carbide Spiral Upcut Bit

Evanism has posted a review in his blog -

Upcut carbide 1/2" bit

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by Evanism
, 6th May 2015 at 06:38 PM (1 Views)

First and last impressions: 5 out of 5. BUY IT. Excellent price and excellent finish.

Today I used the solid carbide 2 flute upcut router bit from ALDAV for the purposes of review and actual work. These are sold on the WoodWorkersForum.com and Ebay trading as Aldavs_store: http://stores.ebay.com.au/Aldavs-Store .

Traditionally upcut and downcut cutters are rather specialised. For the handyman they are a very expensive luxury. For low cost operations or a small shop they are aren't a necessity - work can be achieved with straight cutters (carbide or HSS). Good quality straight cut bits are still quite expensive. Professional shops or small volume high quality craftsmen will buy a spiral carbide cutter due to their absolutely superior finish. The above facts are a given - very few craftsmen would question them.

For background, I make a very wide range of children's furniture commercially as well as high end (read: expensive) decorative boxes. I'm a commission craftsman with a wide remit. The workshop is fully stocked with high end, premium quality equipment, tools and accessories and it all gets a good flogging daily. Think great care: but fully used - they are not toys or show-ponies. They are tools for income.

This cutter was offered by ALDAV to trial. We were talking on the WWF about the qualities of carbide cutters and how getting a HIGH quality, decently priced spiral cutters that lasted was nearly impossible. It is very easy to spend $350 or $400 on a professional one. He offered me the trial of his newest model to trial in a commercial environment and offer an honest review.

Today I mounted the cutter in a Triton TRA001 router fitted to a Kreg lifter plate. I also have a Festool and BenchCrafted lifter, but the Triton is my go-to workhorse. It typically runs 15 to 20,000 rpm and fitted to a fully boxed dust extractor. Today I made boxes. Lots of boxes. They were made on commission for an international sports company to give to an international team for medals for a major world-wide event (I cannot disclose who yet). The quality of work needed to be *extremely* high. Fine boxes invite very close scrutiny - mistakes have nowhere to hide. Errors would cost a great deal - timbers were Qld Blackwood, WA Lace sheoak and birdseye maple highlights. Each is a nightmare. Blackwood loves to chip, rip out and burns deeply faster than unwatched toast when cut. Lace sheoak is eye wateringly expensive and birdseye maple shows Every Single Trivial Mistake.

I took a big risk to use this cutter on a job like this, which had been sitting in the selector for 4 weeks, but this was exactly the reason it was purchased for. I needed a first-rate ultra clean cut for mortising, ultra fine jointing and fine edge finishing. The bit did exactly what I wanted, first time, right through the entire job. Lid and base mortising were clean and sharp, edging/jointing was very sharp (I use an Incra Wonder Fence as a micro-edge jointer for box work) and the finger box joint edging cleaned up perfectly.

The upcut performed flawlessly. The cuts were ultra smooth, very crisp and clean on both top cuts and edge cuts. It was used a lot and remained as sharp as when delivered. Two thumbs up. I decided to use my existing bits as a test on a some off-cut scraps of the Blackwood to see if the upcut was indeed working better or if it was my imagination. It wasn't my imagination. The existing straight carbide bits left either bottom fuzz (an expensive almost new one), chipped (my "old trusty") or burned (both did, here and there, but far worse when moved slowly). They both would have left me with a lot of cleanup work - and if you've friction burned blackwood, you'll know how deep it goes - a bastard thing to happen on a finely crafted box.

This upcut is also noticeably quieter in operation. I hate excessive noise in the shop. A very well designed spiral upcut sounds smooth and operates vibration free during the cut. This one has these qualities.

The bit itself is remarkably nice. It is really sharp out of the pack (unusual for carbide - HSS is normally a lot sharper on the "thumb test"), it is well polished with no manufacturing errors, the carbide is fine and visually it looks very nice. It comes delivered capped and encased in a pop-click enclosure.

So, all up, I would highly recommend its purchase. It is an excellent tool and priced very well - low enough for the home woodworker looking for an excellent finish. I would also VERY highly recommend it for the pro woodworker too http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net...lies/smile.gif "


Any of you who know Evan know the value you can place on his opinion. I can tell you how good these are as many times as I like, but nobody listens, so it's good to have an independent opinion that confirms my own. :D Fell free to PM me if you have any queries.

Cheers,
David

Hi Dudes,

I wanted to add a new addendum.

I've used the bit EXTENSIVELY over the last week and a bit. I've made a giant pile of boxes.

The bit has lost a tiny fraction of the ultra sharp edge, but it is trivial. It cuts exactly the same and the finish is fantastic.

I'd definitely buy it again.

If it came as a down-cut, I'd buy SIX!

Well Evan, as I said to you I might just try to sell a few of these prior to outlaying thousands of more dollars on downcut bits. :p Besides, my financial situation appears to have quite a few characteristics in common with your own, rich we aint! :no:

I recently sold one of these bits in the 1/4" size to forum member derekcohen. Derek has been building a lingerie chest, which he has covered in a thread in the Woodwork - General > BIG STUFF section of the forum and on his own web site here - http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html. I'm sure you will agree that he crafts beautiful pieces. There is also a mention of what he required the bit for in this thread regarding the merits of various methods of cutting mortices - https://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=197796

Judging from his comment, "the 1/4" carbide up cut router bit is terrific!", about the bit in this thread - https://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=199806 - he is pretty happy with it.

I still have plenty of these available in the four sizes and , as with all my other products, they are available at a discounted price through the forum. Just PM me.

Cheers,
David

I was just about to search for this thread. I bought a 1/2" bit via ebay and will be PM'img to buy 2 more and a 1/4". Very impressed with the cut quality when used on the CNC.

I too would like a down-cut but but in 1'4" . None on your eBay page (yet) but I've ordered a 1/4" - 1/8" adaptor for my Makita RT0701 router. :2tsup:

Downcut would be nice, as would 50mm cutting length, but I'll take what I can get for the price

Hi dpm and snowyskiesau,

Thanks for your support. I am looking at getting some downcut and extended length/different diameter bits in the next order. Won't be happening until I sell a few more of the current stock though. I have a few products on the water at the moment, which should be here over the next few weeks; all clamps and cyclones though. If only I had more money to buy stuff and somewhere to store it all. There are plenty of good products out there. Come to think of it I'd settle for the money. If you have enough of it the storage problem solves itself! :rolleyes: Just have to purchase that winning lotto ticket. :D

Cheers,
David

A very informative review,I bought a carba-tec up-cut version a couple of year back.
these cutters are expensive but the cut they produce is superlative,I use mine almost exclusively for loose tenon work.
I am looking for a smaller diameter one to my 1/2" and will certainly look into these.

Thanks for this review - I'm just about to start building an entire new kitchen for myself using all mortise and tenon joinery and I'll definitely get one of these now that I know how useful they are. I see they also have sets of 4 on ebay for $162 which is a $20 saving over buying them individually.

Just used the upcut 1/2" bit for the first time. I am impressed, no tear out, clean cuts and hardly any woodchips on the table, wish I'd tried these earlier. Will be saving up for the 3/8" and 1/4".

Hi Aldav,

I see that you also sell Freud and Whiteside upcut carbide bits as well. Can you comment on the cut quality of all 3. The Freud and the Whiteside are understandably bit more expensive, but do either cut better than the JN bits ?



Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Belstaff1464

Hi Aldav,

I see that you also sell Freud and Whiteside upcut carbide bits as well. Can you comment on the cut quality of all 3. The Freud and the Whiteside are understandably bit more expensive, but do either cut better than the JN bits ?



Mike

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It's probably better for me to leave it to others to comment on this Mike as my view may possibly be considered biased. :rolleyes: I picked up the Whiteside and Freud bits - they are mainly compression bits - as a job lot from a seller in the US who was getting out of them and am unlikely to be able to get any more. There's a review on the 1/4" Jinoo bit here - huh, looks like it's been deleted, thanks admin!

David

I respect your decision David, but I doubt there would be many people let alone members that have used all 3 brands of bits to be able to make a vaild comparison.

I have the Whiteside 1/2 inch upcut bit as well as a set of Aldav's upcut bits. I cannot say that I have used them extensively since I am only a weekend woodworker but I have used them all on a range of Australian timbers as well as some radiata and have found that Aldav's bits more than hold their own. The only issue that I have with Aldav's bits (and as you can see it is a good issue to have) is that they are so sharp I have cut myself on them a number of times. I don't seem to have the same "issue" with the Whiteside bit. Mind you, I am not knocking the Whiteside bits as I am very pleased overall with the "basic" set I bought from them.

What I do find is that I automatically reach for one of Aldav's bits when I have a critical task. That is a very subjective assessment of course.

I've used all three extensively. My absolute favourites are Freud, but I'm prejudiced towards the company as I love their circular saw blades. Aldavs Jinoo bits are FANTASTIC.

The Jinoo 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" almost every day .... but the 1/4" is used many times a day. My business makes kids toys and furniture on commission and many of the designs call for highly precise construction methods and quick, accurate machining. The studio is busy most days and most weeks are pretty full on.

Over the last 24 months I've bought many Jinoo 1/4 and 3/8 to accommodate for wear and breakage (I get the sweats when there aren't spares when its busy), but I've NEVER broken one or worn on out enough to toss it out.

The prices are excellent, delivery is super fast and as Xanthorrhoeas says, they are very sharp when delivered.

The Jinoo bits are used for edge routing using templates, dados and using the Incra (and wonderfence) as a "jointer". Woods mainly used are Oak, Walnut, Qld Maple, Blackbutt, Pine and MDF. The last is used extensively - this is one of the prime reasons to moving to spiral carbides as regular straight ones wore far too fast and were too noisy (I hate noise).

For some reason the blackbutt I use burns like a bastard on regular tools, but does not with the spiral carbides.

The Freuds and Jinoos are very quiet and give an absolutely superior smooth finish.

I buy the Jinoos as price is important.

Thanks for sharing your experience with these bits.

Regarding compression bits, are they a compromise ? In other words, will an upcut bit produce a cleaner bottom and a downcut bit a crisper shoulder with less chip out than a compression bit ? I'm having trouble deciding what type of spiral bit to buy. Is there any reason why I should buy an upcut and a downcut instead of just a compression bit?

Unfortunately it's not one type fits all, it really depends on what type of work you're intending to do. If you want to cut deep mortises buy an upcut bit, make sure you use the right technique and you'll get a nice clean shoulder. If you intend to use the bit for shallow mortices (like hinge mortices) and dadoes and rabbets use a downcut bit. You will get a very clean bottom (sounds like an advert for toilet paper doesn't it!) with any quality solid carbide bit, doesn't matter whether they have fishtail or straight cut ends (router bits versus end mills).

Compression bits are designed to do a superior job at edge jointing, you wouldn't believe the finish when used on double sided laminates. Since I have all three types - why wouldn't I - I've never used a compression bit for morticing or dadoes. Must have a go at that tomorrow just to see what happens. Should be good for dadoes and rabbets provided they're deep enough to get both cutting spirals in to action but might not be pretty for deep morticing with the lower section upcutting and the upper section downcutting - the chips have to go somewhere!

If you want an all-rounder start with an upcut.

Cheers,
David

The age old discussion!

There are others far wiser, but I do have personal preferences.

Most of my work is done with standard upcuts.

There is a Special Reserve downcut kept for a particular client whose work requires beautiful finish in Ash. It makes a beautiful dado 1/4" wide and a perfect flat bottom.

The upcut also gives a beautiful bottom. The edges aren't bad or shabby either.

This article makes more sense than my rambling: How To Use a Router - Up vs. Down Cut Bits - NewWoodworker.com LLC

I use an expensive combo up/down from Freud (from Aldav too) for doing jointer duties on the router table, but that really isnt necessary - the 1/2" Jinoo does a fantastic job. The RT does a great job of refreshing edges for panel glueups, especially if the boards were prepped the day prior (or earlier). You always want a fresh edge for panel glueups!

The Freud combo is incredibly sharp. It is also a pricey beast.

(I'm nothing more than a customer of Aldavs and receive nothing in return or discounts - but choose to use him as he has accommodated my needs in the past, has good prices and posts the next day when I put in a late order).

Thanks guys. At this stage I'm doing mainly dadoes and rabbets so looks like I'll be needing downcut bits.

Good article woodPixel. The warning about chip build up when using downcuts is deserving of attention. When cutting a dado of even only 6mm depth the chip build up is quite dramatic so multiple passes are the way to go particularly with smaller diameter bits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Belstaff1464

Thanks for sharing your experience with these bits.

Regarding compression bits, are they a compromise ? In other words, will an upcut bit produce a cleaner bottom and a downcut bit a crisper shoulder with less chip out than a compression bit ? I'm having trouble deciding what type of spiral bit to buy. Is there any reason why I should buy an upcut and a downcut instead of just a compression bit?

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Compression bits have an upcut section and a downcut section. There are designed for full thickness cuts with optimal finish on bottom and top face. They are not for partial thickness cuts.

I should correct my last post. You can do partial thickness cuts with a compression bit. The important thing is to make sure the cut or pass is deeper than the length of the upcut section, so as to have the downcut section in contact with the top surface.

Being mostly downcut, compression bits do not have good chip evacuation.