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I recently completed a fix for a client using 67x19mm MDF skirting. They are now refusing to pay me because I haven't mitred the internal corners...?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was taught to always mitre the external corners and scribe the internals. With the exception being square skirting, where butt joining the internals is fine!
Any thoughts and feedback on this matter would be much appreciated....
a butt join on a square = a scribe :)
just tell them that the walls will move and if you didn't scribe the internal corners like you have, in 6months time they will be moaning and groaning about the mitres all having gaps. I have lambs tongue throughout my house. All internals are scribed and 8years later, they are as good as they were when i initially installed them.
If they do twist your arm and get you to re-do the job, I would try and talk them into using a 70x22x22 (slightly round the top 2 edges) internal corner block in each corner so that way you don't need to replace the skirting which would be short in length if you tried to mitre it now.
For what it's worth, I agree with you.
TM
You have not contravened any code of practice. It has always been the way you have described. Once the furniture gets placed no one will know or care.
I hope you come to a happy outcome with your client.
If we could do our work without having to deal with clients that "know all about building practices" we would be better off.
Tell your client to go visit any display home from any builder anywhere and if they find mitred internals I'll eat my hat. I'm not even a builder and I know your method is correct.
Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum!
Danny
After replying above, my mind clicked into gear and I was taken back to a school job I worked on when I was an apprentice. The spec called for 75 X 25mm Tas Oak skirtings attached to face brick walls. What we did on that job was scribe the the corner joints but we did show a mitre when you looked at it. The way we did it was to cut a mitre on the "over" piece then cut away the the mitre leaving an "ear" about 6mm high, lay that over the piece butted against the wall, mark the mitre onto it and cut out the "ear" piece then fix them to the wall. I remember it being fiddly especially having to plug the wall to fix the skirtings. The painter put a clear finish on the Tas Oak
EDIT...addition of a couple of photos to better illustrate my description of the method
Bloody Marvelous! Thank you people, the client is actually a building company. Neither the director or contracts foreman are (obviously?) carpenters. So it's like talking to a brick wall....
This will most definately help my argument. Thanks again
If you want some further ammunition just Google "scribe joints skirting board" and there are plenty of hits.
Funnily enough a lot of them are about people complaining about mitred skirting joints!
Seems to me that if the builder wanted mitred joints he should have specified them.
I am not a carpenter but my father-in-law was and he taught me to scribe the corners because not all walls are perfectly square to one another
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesand
I've yet to see a house frame that is square, our bathroom is 100mm out of square.:oo: Great fun tiling NOT!!!
Thats the way we tackle it as well. The reasoning behind a scribe instead of a mitre is if the timber moves at all it wont open up at the join. Has the job been painted yet?
If so offer to walk away from the job, after collecting all your skirting of course.
If it hasn't, maybe if his painter is any good at his job then he would fill the top join with gap filler and you wouldn't see the join anyway.
Sounds like someone just trying to get out of paying.
Nothing annoys me more than this sort of thing happening (not that I know the full story of course, but going by your side)
Good luck
Gabriel
Hi Keefes,
As stated internal corners are either scribed if a molded profile or a butt join if square so if there is any movement in the timber the joint doesn't show a gap where a mitre would more easily.
Regards Rod.
Don't quite understand why they have a problem. The skirting is just a cover strip to meet the floor and cover the gap at the bottom of the wall sheet. As it is MDF it is just that - a cover strip to be painted the same as the wall colour.
If it were solid contoured timber they wished to stain as some sort of feature and contrast to the wall then they should have stated what they wanted.
Is it a new house or renovation?
Any other subbies on the job?
Was a price negotiated before starting?
Did you supply materials and labour or just labour?
I'm not a legal person but I would presume (which I understand could be a dangerous thing) that if you supplied materials that you owned them until they are paid for.
Being an ex TAFE teacher, internal corners scribed, external corners mitred.
Suggest you send a letter of small claims demand from your local court (small fee involved and add that to the bill plus interest if not paid within 14 days) with a covering note to tell them to contact the Dept of Fair Trading where they will be told to not be so stupid in polite terms.
Even supply them with a copy of the relevant section from a TAFE text book.
Unless they have other legitimate issues with your work, you are on 100% solid ground with this one.
Bob, that's a minefield you don't want to know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob38S
From my experience with builders and liquidators I believe that technically once something is attached or fixed to the house it becomes part of the house, and as such the land, and it belongs to the builder and the supplier becomes an unsecured creditor, who may have a claim for payment.
But if the supplier is not paid such supplier may not remove the items from the building. I know that's tough and the law is an ass but that's what I learned from a well known liquidator when a builder I was working for went into liquidation.
Peter.
Thanks for the clarification Peter.
As always, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and when dealing with the law "be prepared to get legal procedure not necessarily justice".
SOMETHING ODD HAS HAPPENED TO THIS THREAD
This morning when I opened this thread, mine and a couple of other's thread are gone. I first thought mine had been "pulled" due being maybe just a little off topic. I went to my profile and checked there and low and behold there it is, complete with mine and other's paragraphs.
It seems today's display is separate to yesterdays
Gremlin in the works?
CIA?
There must be 2 threads addressing this problem. Maybe a mod should combine them, before I get confused:doh:
TM
No, just me!Quote:
Originally Posted by chambezio
The OP started two different threads and received replies to both of them.
I merged the threads but had to delete a few duplicates in the process.
Hope it all makes sense now it's in one thread. :)
Sorry to be the dissenting viewpoint, but I can see where the client is coming from. I'm not a carpenter, but I do know that its external joints mitered, internal joints scribed - for normal skirting boards. The thing is, when you do a scribe joint on a bullnose or pencil round skirting board then it actually looks like its been mitered - in the sense the join looks to be 45 degrees to each piece of skirting and runs into the apex of the corner. Thus your internal and external joints match each other, regardless of how they were done.
If you scribe a square skirting board, you get a joint that looks like a butt joint - it doesnt match the mitired joint of the external corners and looks amateurish.
To me, mitered joints look elegant and well made and I'd expect all joints to look the same.
Yes, the painter could fill them and sand it off - but he might not appreciate the scope creep.
Cheers
Arron
How you have done it is the prescribed way for good reasons-allows more movement for a join that is highly unlikely to be 90 degrees in the first place.
You must remember that to get your builders licence in most states-is mostly financial-as far as I am aware there is NO requirement to actually know how to build a dog kennel. Tell them to search the net-they will find that what you have done is not only correct, but mitering such joints & filling is the half arsed way.
In essence as you knew -YES they are wrong & need replacing with someone competent.